Recovery Media from hell
I thought I was buying a simple, user friendly, Total PC (bare metal) backup and recovery system, but this is very far from the truth. I have a Windows 10 x64 dell XPS 15 (9550) laptop which I've been working on for over a week now on trying to produce a USB bootable recovery media, and I see no light at the end of the tunnel.
First I tried the simple one step Bootable Recovery Media creation. I booted up with this media and I was able to see my NAS files and could select the backup I wanted to restore, but then the system only saw my USB drive, no sign of my main drive for the destination.
So then tech support suggested building a WinPE bootable recovery media, but I jumped from the frying pan into the fire. Now I couldn't even see my NAS any longer. Tech support suggested that QNAP (NAS) should have some drivers to facilitate communication to the NAS, but of course QNAP has none.
I don't know very much but I followed a procedure (Forum 100770) for "injecting" a NIC driver into the WinPE on my USB drive, but that didn't help, I still can't see my NAS.
I'm really frustrated and would appreciate some help in understanding why I can't see the main drive and the NAS drive. Why does the Acronis Bootable Media see my NAS but the WinPE bootable media does not.
Well I'm not corresponding from a brick, so your advise was very helpful. I restored from a NAS backup. Thank you very much.
The only concern I have is that the ???? Windows Boot Manager ???? is no longer in the boot sequence, it used to be the first item in the boot sequence. Any idea where that went to and what was it's function ? I even tried restoring bios factory settings, but it's not there either. Perhaps reinstalling the dell Bios package will bring it back.
Again, thank you so very much.
Your bios boot mode has probably changed from UEFI to Legacy/MBR, you would need to change the boot mode back to UEFI as well as set the SATA mode back to RAID.
After you make the change to UEFI mode save and exit the bios then reboot back into the bios setup once more. You should see the Windows Boot Manager again in the boot sequence, make certain that it is once again first in the list, save and exit and let the machine boot back into Windows.
The reason for Dell and other manufacturers using the RAID mode on machines running the newer NVME drives is that in doing so latency in data improves which in turn increases performances.
No, that's not a problem in my bios. It's not easy to change UEFI to Legacy, and UEFI is selected. I'd create the boot option, but I don't know what was the code. I also thought I could reload the bios firmware, but that seems a bit awkward to require after a bare metal restore.
Any other ideas ?
I'd have to see screenshots of your bios configs and some disk management screenshots from within Windows would help too.
In Windows 10/UEFI, the only way I've ever been able to boot it is using Windows boot manager as the top spot. If I try to pick a specific hard drive intead, I get a generic BSOD that says missing hardware or somethign to that effect.
As Enchantec mentioned, normally, if you can boot Windows and don't have a Windows bootmanager options, it usually means you're OS is instaleld in CSM/Legacy mode.
Even if UEFI is selected, if CSM/legacy mode is enabled, it could mean that your OS is installed in legacy mode. Windows disk management would shed a little more light on the OS install type.
Was the backup that you restored created from a Legacy/CSM installation or a UEFI booted one? If it was Legacy based it would restore in Legacy mode.
As Bobbo says a look at a Disk Management screenshot would help us to know.
Disk Management screen attached
As far as backups go, they were done without any changes to bios, hence they should be in uefi mode. To recover image I changed Raid to AHCI, then once imaged recovered I went into bios and changed AHCI back to Raid and noticed that the windows boot manager was gone from boot sequence. The boot sequence only had main disk listed.
Hmm, curios why your EFI partition is 500MB, usually that partition is 99MB or so, probably something Dell specific.
Open Disk Management again and this time click on the View tab at the top, hover your mouse over Top, and select Disk List. Your view should change to something similar to the attachement below. If your system is booting in UEFI mode then your disk should show as Type Basic, Device Type RAID, Partition Style GPT.
To further confrim your boot mode right click Windows start button, select Run and type MSInfo32.exe, and press enter. In the reultant list llot for an entry named BIOS Mode, it should say UEFI.
As requested
Well, UEFI boot mode is confirmed by your screenshots so that is a positive. I think that Windows Boot Manager has been moved from the EFI partition to the Windows C: partition somehow. The first entry you see in the boot order in the bios at this time is the name of the C: drive itself is that correct?
I suppose that you could try to use a Windows install disk to attempt to repair the startup of the disk. That might fix the issue.
Yes the C: drive is first in the list.
This is an odd one - you're booting off the drive and able to get to the OS, right (this is the same disk you're booted into the OS already and don't have the old one installed or anything like that still? - seems that way since only 1 disk is shown in disk manager)
Can you take a cell pic of your bios boot order as well and your Dell one time boot override menu (f12). Now that I think about it, my Dell E'series is UEFI, but doesn't show "Windows boot manager". I'm currently using it so can't check, but I believe it just shows up as "Windows" or some other name instead.
If it's booting and working, you should be just fine. Also curious about the 500Mb EFI parition though, but perhaps that's because or the onboard Dell diagnostics utilities - I'm not really sure. Startup repair won't hurt anything an may restore the "windows boot manager" label.
Apparently Dell's do come with 500Mb paritions at times...
http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/desktop/f/3514/t/19564604
We can tell how the computer is booting by looking at the BCD file. Open a command prompt as administrator and enter the following line:
bcdedit /enum all
Take a screenshot showing the entries for Windows Boot Manager (if it is there) and all entries for Windows Boot Loader. This will show how the computer is booting.
As requested, see attached
You have a normal UEFI booting system.
I'm not familiar with the Dell bios systems, so I don't know why it doesn't show Windows Boot Manager. It is my opinion that your system is booting from the Windows Boot Manager entry in the BCD file.
Dell Bios is a bit odd. You can manually add and or rename bios boot sequence items as well. Mine somehow has ended up with 3 entries for the same Windows boot manager but all point to the same bootmgfw.efi file. What is listed in your bios, I'm sure it has something listed. You can manually create a new entry and name it whatever you want... just point it to the same path as mine shows and then try your one time boot override menu (F12) and manually select the entry you added to see how it goes. The tricky part is makign sure you have the correct bootloader file selected if you add your own entry.
From what I've been reading, Windows Startup Repair runs automatically when your computer becomes unbootable. In this case Windows Boot Manager was no longer available in the EFI partition.
I'm still puzzled, however as to why this recovery operation made my computer unbootable. I am currently running WHS V1 to backup all Windows 7 PC's in my home network. I am very familiar with changing boot sequence to boot from the retore CD, and changing the HDD mode to AHCI to allow the restore function to proceed. With that experience the proposed procedure made sense to me, It is very important for me to understand why this approach made my computer unbootable. I still don't have a reliable method for using Acronis to recover my Windows 10 Dell xps 15 (9550).
I'm really not sure. Typcially, if using the same computer with all the same hardware, restores end up being bootable all by themselves. I'm wondering if the work-a-round of the system being installed in in RAID mode, but backed up in AHCI mode (although it works to see the drive so the backup can run), may be root cause of the initial boot issue.
My hunch is that if you had WinPE with the IRST drivers installed and did the same thing, it would just work since you'd be going from apples to apples and not apples to oranges and back to apples (so to speak).
Ultimately, you can stick with the AHCI work-a-round and run startup repair which is a little inconvenient, but validated to work for you, or brave the WinPE creation, which really isn't that hard.
Just click on the WinPE option in Acronis and it will prompt you to pick an ADK version. You have Windows 10 instaleld so pick that one. Acronsi will download and install it. Once installed, then you just pick the WinPE option and it will build it for you. However, the problem with any "RAID" setup is that Windows doesn't automatically include Intel Rapid Storage Technology (IRST) drivers so even the WinPE probably won't see your drive while in RAID mode. That is where you would need to inject the drivers in the WinPE.. it sounds scarey, but it's really not.
1) Let Acronis download and install the Windows 10 ADK for you
2) Let Acronis then build rescue media using the WinPE option and create it as a UsB flash drive (this is important because you need to be able to modify the boot.wim file to get your IRST drivers installed).
3) Once you have your UsB flash drive, download and extract the IRST drivers to a location on your PC that is easy to access. https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25165/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Tec… (you want to get the "f6flp-x64.zip" for a 64-bit OS install and extract the contents so that they're ready to go for the next step with DISMGUI.
4) Follow my quick notes about using DISMGUI to inject the drivers: https://forum.acronis.com/forum/112372#comment-387006. It's really painless, but if you want a step-by-step play, this youtube video pretty much eplains it (although quite drawn out for what should only take about 2 minutes of time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGhaiv7qA_8
5) That's it. It's not hard and once you do it, you'll be glad you know how. Best of all, it's a one time thing once you have the IRST drivers installed in your WinPE.
If we were allowed to pass WinPE along, I'd be happy to do so, but it's against Windows licensing and that is why we have to jump through these hoops for inejcting drivers in WinPE whenever a system has a hard drive with an OS that was installed in RAID mode (even if there is no actual RAID in use).
Well I manually added Windows Boot Manager back in and it seems to work fine. But who knows if it's really working, since it seems to have figured out how to boot from EFI or C: partitions. Maybe I should temporarily uncheck C: to eliminate it from boot sequence ???
Worth a shot. You can check/uncheck the options without removing them completely so any changes in that regard are reverseible in the bios.
Actually I think I already did run this test of my manual enrty of Windows Boot Manager, because I used F12 to boot from Windows Boot Manager. I believe F12 only boots from a single source that you select.
Will this single injection of IRST drivers solve my ability to see my NAS Raid drives and my Dell Raid drive at the same time, while avoiding any boot problems of the recovered image ? At least this is the hope.
Thank you for the tip on the drivers required to be injected. I had difficulty figuring out what to inject and tech support missed that detail.
I'm really not sure. Typcially, if using the same computer with all the same hardware, restores end up being bootable all by themselves. I'm wondering if the work-a-round of the system being installed in in RAID mode, but backed up in AHCI mode (although it works to see the drive so the backup can run), may be root cause of the initial boot issue.
My hunch is that if you had WinPE with the IRST drivers installed and did the same thing, it would just work since you'd be going from apples to apples and not apples to oranges and back to apples (so to speak).
Ultimately, you can stick with the AHCI work-a-round and run startup repair which is a little inconvenient, but validated to work for you, or brave the WinPE creation, which really isn't that hard.
Just click on the WinPE option in Acronis and it will prompt you to pick an ADK version. You have Windows 10 instaleld so pick that one. Acronsi will download and install it. Once installed, then you just pick the WinPE option and it will build it for you. However, the problem with any "RAID" setup is that Windows doesn't automatically include Intel Rapid Storage Technology (IRST) drivers so even the WinPE probably won't see your drive while in RAID mode. That is where you would need to inject the drivers in the WinPE.. it sounds scarey, but it's really not.
1) Let Acronis download and install the Windows 10 ADK for you
2) Let Acronis then build rescue media using the WinPE option and create it as a UsB flash drive (this is important because you need to be able to modify the boot.wim file to get your IRST drivers installed).
3) Once you have your UsB flash drive, download and extract the IRST drivers to a location on your PC that is easy to access. https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25165/Intel-Rapid-Storage-Tec… (you want to get the "f6flp-x64.zip" for a 64-bit OS install and extract the contents so that they're ready to go for the next step with DISMGUI.
4) Follow my quick notes about using DISMGUI to inject the drivers: https://forum.acronis.com/forum/112372#comment-387006. It's really painless, but if you want a step-by-step play, this youtube video pretty much eplains it (although quite drawn out for what should only take about 2 minutes of time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGhaiv7qA_8
5) That's it. It's not hard and once you do it, you'll be glad you know how. Best of all, it's a one time thing once you have the IRST drivers installed in your WinPE.
If we were allowed to pass WinPE along, I'd be happy to do so, but it's against Windows licensing and that is why we have to jump through these hoops for inejcting drivers in WinPE whenever a system has a hard drive with an OS that was installed in RAID mode (even if there is no actual RAID in use).
Actually I think I already did run this test of my manual enrty of Windows Boot Manager, because I used F12 to boot from Windows Boot Manager. I believe F12 only boots from a single source that you select.
Yup, if F12 showed the new "windows boot manager" option and it worked, it's good to go. I'm trying ot picture in my head what it showed before - you said c: or something like that. If that one still exists, you should be able to compare where that one is/was pointing to as well, chances are, they are both going to the same bootloader file and it somehow just got renamed in the process.
Will this single injection of IRST drivers solve my ability to see my NAS Raid drives and my Dell Raid drive at the same time, while avoiding any boot problems of the recovered image ? At least this is the hope.
Thank you for the tip on the drivers required to be injected. I had difficulty figuring out what to inject and tech support missed that detail.
Yes and no, but actually yes on both accounts. Initially, it will solve the issue of not seeing your internal hard drive. WinPE has a couple of different limitations as well, but it will connect to your NAS. There is just one more step in Windows PE to connect to the NAS, but isn't difficult.
Essentially, you have to map the NAS as a drive letter in WinPE (not an Acronis limitatoin but a Windows PE limitation). Once mapped, then you just navigate to it from the Acronis explorer view.
To map a network drive in WinPE, minimize the Acronis Windows GUI and there is a command prompt waiting behind it. Type the following command (changing information with your nas device instead). If the path to the NAS share (don't try to connect to the root of the NAS) is correct, you should be greeted by a username and password prompt.
In some cases, you may need to enter the name with all caps (since the NAS is UNIX/Linux based). For some NAS devices, it doesn't matter. Additionally, with some NAS devices, you can just enter username/password, but others may require NASNAME/USERNAME (WD-MYCLOUD\USERNAME). If it says success, your golden. I've attached a couple of screenshots for reference that allow me to map my NAS share as the S: drive (use whatever letter you want, but avoid C: and X: since those are typically already in use by WinPE. I just chose S: because I know it would not be in use)
net use s: \\192.168.1.100\test
The other entry in my boot sequence was my primary disk and it was indeed pointing to the same boot manager file in \EFI
Actually I think I already did run this test of my manual enrty of Windows Boot Manager, because I used F12 to boot from Windows Boot Manager. I believe F12 only boots from a single source that you select.
Yup, if F12 showed the new "windows boot manager" option and it worked, it's good to go. I'm trying ot picture in my head what it showed before - you said c: or something like that. If that one still exists, you should be able to compare where that one is/was pointing to as well, chances are, they are both going to the same bootloader file and it somehow just got renamed in the process.
Okay, I created a custom Winpe bootable usb drive with IRST drivers injected. But I'm lost on the mapping of network NAS for WinPE. I don't understand you talking about a cmd window running behind Acronis GUI which I then use to run the net use command
Will this single injection of IRST drivers solve my ability to see my NAS Raid drives and my Dell Raid drive at the same time, while avoiding any boot problems of the recovered image ? At least this is the hope.
Thank you for the tip on the drivers required to be injected. I had difficulty figuring out what to inject and tech support missed that detail.
Yes and no, but actually yes on both accounts. Initially, it will solve the issue of not seeing your internal hard drive. WinPE has a couple of different limitations as well, but it will connect to your NAS. There is just one more step in Windows PE to connect to the NAS, but isn't difficult.
Essentially, you have to map the NAS as a drive letter in WinPE (not an Acronis limitatoin but a Windows PE limitation). Once mapped, then you just navigate to it from the Acronis explorer view.
To map a network drive in WinPE, minimize the Acronis Windows GUI and there is a command prompt waiting behind it. Type the following command (changing information with your nas device instead). If the path to the NAS share (don't try to connect to the root of the NAS) is correct, you should be greeted by a username and password prompt.
In some cases, you may need to enter the name with all caps (since the NAS is UNIX/Linux based). For some NAS devices, it doesn't matter. Additionally, with some NAS devices, you can just enter username/password, but others may require NASNAME/USERNAME (WD-MYCLOUD\USERNAME). If it says success, your golden. I've attached a couple of screenshots for reference that allow me to map my NAS share as the S: drive (use whatever letter you want, but avoid C: and X: since those are typically already in use by WinPE. I just chose S: because I know it would not be in use)
net use s: \\192.168.1.100\test
OK, easy-peasy. When you launch your WinPE bootable recovery media, the Acronis GUI is usually the first thing you see. However, there's actually a command prompt that is automatically launched first and then covered by the Acronis GUI window. You should be able to simply minimize the Acronis Window (same as you would do in a full blown Windows OS with any other open Window) and can then use the command prompt in the background to enter your netw use commands. Once you get success there. Then expand the Acronis GUI again (maximize it). Acronis should now be able to navigate the previously mapped network drive letter you created with "net use".
This is not easy. I can ping my NAS (192.168.0.xx), but it won't accept my command "net use s:\\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis"
What make and model of NAS are you using? Do you use SMB shares on the NAS for folder access or do you use Windows mapped drive letters for such folders?
Your path as written above suggests that you have your destination folders nested under your NAS root folder.
My NAS is QNAP TS-251+. A tech I was talking to at QNAP mentioned that they use SMB shares. Well windows explorer shows my NAS in the network with the name QNAP-NAS, followed by a bunch of subfolders, one of which is home.
In the Net Use command there needs to be a space between s: and the double backslashes (\\)
net use s: \\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis
not net use s:\\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis
Yes i I noticed that I got a different error message when I removed the space (System error 67, network name can not be found).
With the space I get System error 58, The specified server cannot perform the requested operation)
In the Net Use command there needs to be a space between s: and the double backslashes (\\)
net use s: \\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis
not net use s:\\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis
Maybe your NAS is expecting credentials when mapping the share? For sake of clarity, let's assume that your IP address is 192.168.0.100 in this example and that your NAS user name is satwar:
net use s: \\192.168.0.100\home\acronis /user:satwar *
That command should prompt you for the password next if it succeeds.
Yes i finally got it to succed, even threw in the password, but ii still can't see the NAS backups
Maybe your NAS is expecting credentials when mapping the share? For sake of clarity, let's assume that your IP address is 192.168.0.100 in this example and that your NAS user name is satwar:
net use s: \\192.168.0.100\home\acronis /user:satwar *
That command should prompt you for the password next if it succeeds.
But this specific directory does have the backup files in it in Windows? Whatever is mapped here should be exactly the same as in Windows if the folder path is exactly the same. Once you have successfully provided credentials, that's it, you're authenticated to that directory on the NAS using an SMB connection.
The command does not like that "*" as the last character in user name, or is there a space before the *
The only way I can get the command to succeed is by inserting password before /user:
But it doesn't achieve anything, that I can see. Are there some commands I can use from the winpe command window, to check that i have done something ? Certainly just going back to the Acronis GUI didn't show anything
Yes i finally got it to succed, even threw in the password, but ii still can't see the NAS backups
Maybe your NAS is expecting credentials when mapping the share? For sake of clarity, let's assume that your IP address is 192.168.0.100 in this example and that your NAS user name is satwar:
net use s: \\192.168.0.100\home\acronis /user:satwar *
That command should prompt you for the password next if it succeeds.
I do believe the * is a problem in the name as that is a wildcard character. This may be why you're having issues in general with the offline media. * and space are both something you don't want to use as part of the username or password. You can try to put quotation marks around the name such as ''satwar *'' if that is the actual username and that might work since quotes are usually meant to encapsulate items wiyh a space in it, but it may also read it with the quotes. Try it out. If not, then you'll want to use a username without space, *, /, - ,or % as these can all be problems since they can be used as different command line switch items.
There is a space after the user name and before the * character. You can also omit the * character and the command should still prompt you to enter a password. It should work either way.
You can check to see if the command has succeeded in mapping the folder on your NAS to drive letter s: by doing the following:
s:
dir
This should list the contents of the folder on the NAS. Also, in the Acronis GUI you should be able to browse to drive letter s:
Okay baby steps achieved. In the command window environment I was able to change to S: drive and dir command listed all my backup files. I'm wondering if I can make it persistent, so I don't have to do this mapping to S: drive every time I do a recovery ?
But when I go back to the Acronis GUI, there is no S: drive to be seen
Perhaps I should inject the Dell nic drivers into the custom winpe media, in addition to the IRST drivers ?
There is a space after the user name and before the * character. You can also omit the * character and the command should still prompt you to enter a password. It should work either way.
You can check to see if the command has succeeded in mapping the folder on your NAS to drive letter s: by doing the following:
s:
dirThis should list the contents of the folder on the NAS. Also, in the Acronis GUI you should be able to browse to drive letter s:
I would go into Acronis and start a mock backup/recovery - once the drive is mapped, it should show up via the drive letter provided in the net use command. See my screenshots attached. As a second test, you can use the command prompt and navigate to X:\Program Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome\a43\ and launch A43.exe. This is essentially the File explorer application used by Acronis. If you launch it manually, you can use it in WinPE to navigate files/folders from the WinPE environment outside of Acronis too.
As for automating the process...
Did you use DISM GUI to inject the IRST drivers? If so, use it again to Mount your boot.wim file. Once mounted, go into the contents of the mounted folder and navigate to Windows\System32\
In there is a file called startnet.cmd. You can open it with notepad and add your command there, but put it after the Acronis command. Then commit the changes to the boot.wim
Now, every time the WinPE is launched, it will automatically map the drive for you (assuming nothing changes to the share such as the IP, user account, or password).
I understand the automation process, but I don't understand this mock backup and recovery test. I don't see any attachments, which may clarify things.
I would go into Acronis and start a mock backup/recovery - once the drive is mapped, it should show up via the drive letter provided in the net use command. See my screenshots attached. As a second test, you can use the command prompt and navigate to X:\Program Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome\a43\ and launch A43.exe. This is essentially the File explorer application used by Acronis. If you launch it manually, you can use it in WinPE to navigate files/folders from the WinPE environment outside of Acronis too.
As for automating the process...
Did you use DISM GUI to inject the IRST drivers? If so, use it again to Mount your boot.wim file. Once mounted, go into the contents of the mounted folder and navigate to Windows\System32\
In there is a file called startnet.cmd. You can open it with notepad and add your command there, but put it after the Acronis command. Then commit the changes to the boot.wim
Now, every time the WinPE is launched, it will automatically map the drive for you (assuming nothing changes to the share such as the IP, user account, or password).
You don't need to inject the Dell NIC drivers since your network is obviously working in WinPE.
Attached are three screen shots showing the steps of a recovery from the WinPE version of TrueImage 2016. I don't think that there are very many differences between the WinPE versions of TI 2017 and TI 2016, so you should be seeing basically the same thing. My images are on a server that I've mapped to drive Z: using the Net Start command. You should find your NAS folder listed under "This PC" in the Location list.
Bingo !
Your pictures made a world of difference. I had no idea that I was supposed to look under My PC for the mapped drive. I kept on looking at the NAS network entry.
Wow this has been quite a session. I'll try to tweak my custom winpe to simplify doing this mapping.
Thank you all for sticking with me. If only tech support knew half as much as you MPV's know.
You don't need to inject the Dell NIC drivers since your network is obviously working in WinPE.
Attached are three screen shots showing the steps of a recovery from the WinPE version of TrueImage 2016. I don't think that there are very many differences between the WinPE versions of TI 2017 and TI 2016, so you should be seeing basically the same thing. My images are on a server that I've mapped to drive Z: using the Net Start command. You should find your NAS folder listed under "This PC" in the Location list.
Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words sometimes. I'm glad that worked out for you.
Thankful for you sticking in there too. You're learning a lot in the process and this is something you can take with you into other winpe environments down the road. The good news is that once you have this all down, it does become a lot easier if you need to do it again. The other good news is that you generally don't have to create new PE media when acronis releases a minor version update as those are usually just fixes for the Windows application interface and not generally directed at the recovery media ("usually"). If the recovery media is working though, no need to rush to update it.
As for automating the process...
Did you use DISM GUI to inject the IRST drivers? If so, use it again to Mount your boot.wim file. Once mounted, go into the contents of the mounted folder and navigate to Windows\System32\
In there is a file called startnet.cmd. You can open it with notepad and add your command there, but put it after the Acronis command. Then commit the changes to the boot.wim
Now, every time the WinPE is launched, it will automatically map the drive for you (assuming nothing changes to the share such as the IP, user account, or password).
Could you please show me the format of this entry in startnet.cmd. I'm guessing here:
"X:\Windows\system32 net use s: "\\192.168.0.xx\home\acronis" PASSWORD /user:satwar"