issue with backup validation / how to force full backup

I have seen this type of behaviour. In my case it was caused by problems communicating with the disk (faulty PCIe SATA 3 card). It could also be caused by power issues if using a USB HDD (if not self powered) or if you use a USB 3 extension cable - sometimes they are faulty; happened to me only the other day.

Ian

hi,

its internal ssd drive inside laptop - thinkpad x1

John, thanks for bringing this topic over from the 2015 forum to this 2018 forum as requested, and also for the log files.

18/10/2017 19:53:44: 00 1592 I00640002: Operation Backup validation started by schedule.
18/10/2017 19:53:45: 00 1592 I0064000B: Priority changed to Low.
18/10/2017 19:53:54: 00 1592 I000B0402: Validate Backup Archive Location: \\10.0.1.129\backup-acronis\x1-ibm\incremental-bckp\user_inc_b2_s17_v1.tib
18/10/2017 20:11:49: 00 1592 E00040001: Error 0x40001: Error occurred while reading the file.
18/10/2017 20:11:58: 00 1592 E013C0005: Error 0x13c0005: Operation has completed with errors.

Start: 18/10/2017 19:53:44
Stop: 18/10/2017 20:11:58
Total Time: 00:18:14

The second log only really confirms the above error while reading the file but doesn't give any more information as to what exactly this error is?  Acronis does not publish any reference to describe these 0x40001 type error codes though I would expect that their developers have such information for use internally within the company.

The original topic that you referenced was regarding forcing a new full backup and was answered regarding this, i.e. you can create a new backup task or use the option to clone settings for the current task.

What isn't known is how you have configured your Backup Scheme for this backup task, i.e. what settings have you specified on the Options > Backup Scheme configuration page, how many Incremental versions to be created before making a new Full backup image?

With regards to your other comments about Acronis, this software, the forum etc - please understand that the people trying to help here are not employed by Acronis but are just users like yourself, even the MVP's like myself who volunteer our time and experience in the forums.

If you are truly unhappy or dissatisfied with Acronis and its software etc, then please open a Support Case with them to make this known, or use the Feedback tool found in the ATI GUI.

Hi Steve,

so basically this issue should go to Acronis directly ... as far as i understood correctly, because the error code is not documented and there are no other details inside the log, right?

Regarding to the enforcing the full backup, yeah as you described.. its solution ... but i thought they should implement something for that to prevent hassles as duplicate backup conf  etc... ;(

John, not necessarily - none of these error codes are documented for users but without knowing more about exactly how your backup task is configured it is difficult to offer more advice.

I suspect that your task is configured to do an automatic validation after making each backup, and it also has error handling enabled to make it try again when an error is encountered.

Personally, I do not use such automatic validation for any backup task - I accept that when ATI says the backup was successful that the backup should be good, and thus I tend to only do a validation when I believe there is a reason to do one, i.e. if I delete any backup chain files manually via Explorer.

I also disable the error handling options as these have a tendency to run away with retries so I prefer that if an error happens, that ATI tells me about it and I decide on what response is needed.

There have been some know problems when doing a validation immediately after a backup, but whether this is limited to specific user scenarios or situations is uncertain.  For me, validation just really adds a lot more time to my backup tasks for no real gain.

The acid test here is to open your backup location, which you can do from within the ATI GUI using the Open location option, then right-click on the .tib file shown in Explorer and take the Validate option from there.  If that works then the file and chain is good.  If there are any problems such as missing files from the backup chain, then you will quickly get an error popup message.

Hi Steve,

so the configuration is as below:

Schedule - daily - once a day at 9.30pm

Backup scheme - > Incremental -> create a full version after every 28 incremental versions

        Delete version chains older then 70 days

Exclusions: exlcude files matching the fullowing criteria: hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, swapfile.sys

Advanced: no encrypto,

backup splitting automatic

validate backup reguraly Weekly on Sun

Error handling was Repeat attempt if a backup fails - i disabled it for now as per your suggestion

Preserve file sec settings in backups

But apparently you cant rely on what ATI says, because as u can see from the screenshots backups finished Successfully but when i executed validation - it failed.

Thanks

John, have you tried doing a manual validation for the problem task?

yes, manual and its still failing with the error provided in the log files.

John, the other method of validating your backup image / version chain, is to open it in Windows Explorer and browse through the contents as a quick check.

Otherwise, open the main ATI GUI, select your backup task, then click on the Recovery button at the top (ATI 2018) and then look at the drop-down list of Backup versions which should match the dates & times for your backup .tib files on the destination drive, so as your log is showing the file name user_inc_b2_s17_v1.tib there should be a long list for each of the existing incremental backups in this version chain going back to when the initial Full backup was created plus 16 incremental files.

Again, selecting one file then navigating through the contents in the Recovery options panels can help show that the file is good.

Hi,

i think you are missing important part here... if you can see file, etc it doesnt mean backup is VALID, thats why there is hashing mechanism and to compare validity of files md5/sha256 alg are used - and my expectation was that VALIDATION operation does this... count md5/sha256 or whatever on local files and compare it vs files in backup.

Your suggestion is very basic... and cant guarantee anything in terms of data validity/integrity etc. Sorry.

John, I understand your point but the checksum / hashing mechanism isn't foolproof either - all it actually does here is to confirm that the checksum stored within the file when it was created can be recalculated from the same file to prove that no changes have occurred since the file was created.

This mechanism cannot confirm that the contents of the backup image are correct only that the file hasn't changed.

There is no mechanism to compare the original source data for the backup with the contents of the image file.

The only foolproof way to confirm that the backup image is good is to actually restore it to a spare drive!

sorry but you are wrong again ... hashing mechanism can prove validity...

i think im done with that software, i sent description of the issue + logs etc but as usual that monkeys from india has no clue what is going on so all what they can suggest is - > reinstall software, create new backup.

This is major issue ; i cant belive how they can ignore the solution or investigation - it means i will backing up regularly and one day if i need to restore i will find out the backup is corrupted? this is not what backup tool should be and especially as i said those morons from the support of the company are completely out of the track.

John best of luck. Steve's comments were correct - checksum only verifies that the file has not changed, not that the content within the file, or the file itself is usable.

Easy test.

Open notepad and save a blank .txt file with whatever name you want. 

Run checksum and get the output.

Now, change the extension of .txt to .mp3 (music file). 

Now run a checksum against the file.  Will be different - verifying the file was modified. 

Move the file wherever you want and run checksum again and it will be the same as the last check since it's still the same file, but not the same as the first check (as expected).

Now here's the kicker... try to play the .mp3.  Of course, it won't work, because it's not really an .mp3 (or a simulated bad file).  As far as checksum is concerned though, the file integrity is just fine compared to what it was after you changed it to .mp3, even though it's been copied elsewhere.

Bad guys use this logic a lot.  You go to a "fee software site" and download a file that matches the posted checksum and you think cool, good to go.  Unfortunately, the file that was uploaded was already tampered with, but it is the file they say they uploaded :)

ok, thanks but it is not solving original issue with the not valid backup....

John, assuming that you want to investigate this issue further, then per your validation log information, the backup image file is shown as:

Validate Backup Archive Location: \\10.0.1.129\backup-acronis\x1-ibm\incremental-bckp\user_inc_b2_s17_v1.tib 

In an earlier reply to Ian, you also stated:

its internal ssd drive inside laptop - thinkpad x1

So, is \\10.0.1.129 actually the network IP address of this thinkpad x1 laptop that you are writing your backup to, or are we misunderstanding something else here?

The log showed: Error 0x40001: Error occurred while reading the file.  So understanding the location of this file is important to also understand the path involved, plus also what else might be contributing to the error?

I am wondering if the internal SSD drive in the laptop might actually refer to the Source data for the backup rather than the Destination location to store the image file?

My personal approach to dealing with this type of issue would be to try to simplify things as much as possible then start introducing new components one at a time and checking whether the error is given as I go.

So, for example, I would create a small backup task and point this at another internal partition to prove that the backup image is being created successfully and can be validated when the shortest possible path between source and target is used.

Next, I would do the same test but point the backup at an external USB drive & check again.

If all is still OK, then I would point to a network drive or NAS.

I do not use Windows Shares on my computers so would not direct backups to such - I do not like the risks involved should malware gain a foothold on one computer then have access to others across my home network.  My network drive and NAS do not use the same credentials as found on my Windows systems to try to protect those drives.

Hi,

not sure if all of these questions are required. Long story - short:

1) i am backing up my Laptop its internal SSD drive as files/folders - all these details were provided as part of the my backup configuration. Source location in the TrueImage conf.

2) target location - where the backup is stored - is SMB location on my NAS - and yes thats 10.0.1.129 /path... Target location in the trueimage conf.

Your suggestion doesnt solve the issue or will not solve anything, what happened here is I was backing up for 1-2 months and now it says backup is not valid - it means software corrupted backup which means they have some internal bug in that software or software is not able to handle some special scenarios ie machine got rebooted during backup etc ...

What im pointing here to is that software is not handling Errors correctly, it just errors something which is documented and even their official support is not able to investigate the issue. Suggestions from them as reinstall Acronis, create new backup ... they can provide these for kids or for brainless users ... but not for someone who relies on its backup etc.

John, thanks for your further information - sorry if some of this has been repeated!

You say "i am backing up my Laptop its internal SSD drive as files/folders" 

Is this internal SSD in your laptop not the OS drive?

I am hesitant to ask but what exactly are you including in your Files & Folders backup source data from this SSD drive?  

Hi Steve,

its lenovo thinkpad x1 it has only one ssd drive where OS + user data is stored. Im backing up everything; excluded from backup are only these files: hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, swapfile.sys

I also upgraded to the latest build, running validation task manually to generate error log to send it again to the Acronis and i told them to escalate this issue to someone else then first support line which has no clue ...

John wrote:

its lenovo thinkpad x1 it has only one ssd drive where OS + user data is stored. Im backing up everything; excluded from backup are only these files: hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, swapfile.sys

John, you said earlier that you are doing a Files & Folders backup - this will not allow you to recover your Windows OS regardless of including all the OS files & folders in the backup image.

If you want to make a viable backup of your OS SSD drive, then you need to make a Disks & Partitions backup which will also include hidden/system partitions that are essential for recovery. It will also enable OS files, programs and data to be captured while in use which would otherwise be blocked / locked.

If you recover just your Files & Folders backup image to a new HDD or SSD drive it will never be capable of booting into Windows.

hi,

i know and thats not the issue here if i can or cant restore full OS ... the issue is that Validation of the backup is failing ie it says its Invalid. And i am trying to find out why the validation reported its invalid and what caused that. Im not talking here about what type of backup i do have and what i can do with that type of backup later on...

For now assume i will want to recover only files/dirs ... the issue here is validation is broken and the question is why?

John, that is fine about the backup type given you are fully aware of the limitations involved when doing a Files & Folders backup of OS files & folders.

I can only repeat what I said previously:

My personal approach to dealing with this type of issue would be to try to simplify things as much as possible then start introducing new components one at a time and checking whether the error is given as I go.

So, for example, I would create a small backup task and point this at another internal partition to prove that the backup image is being created successfully and can be validated when the shortest possible path between source and target is used.

Next, I would do the same test but point the backup at an external USB drive & check again.

If all is still OK, then I would point to a network drive or NAS.

Steve,

thats ok, this is not solution for the current issue and we are just wasting time with the things that are not related to the issue. So I think we can close it here for now.

The solution requires apparently someone with more technical skills and someone who can understand the mess in the logs provided and has ability to find what specific error codes mean.

I am still in touch with Acronis - the logs were provided to them and it already should be escalated somewhere for the deeper investigation ... hopefully by not people of first or second lines of their customer support... Once i get something meaningful from them i will post more details.

but Thanks for your time, comments etc. If it wont be solved / investigated by Acronis properly i will uninstall that software, 1) the logs provide nothing meaningful for the user; 2) they were not willing to analyze .. 3) i had long argue with support, etc... and solution recommended by their support to create new backup plan / backup is really the most lame advice one can get from the company that is building/selling backup tool.

ok, another issue i created new backup plan as drescribed above and all the time i run it it got stuck somewhere in the middle, nothing is in the log ... anyone have any clue who writes this piece of shitcode? Indians?

John, in your screen shot, it shows an estimated remaining time of 5h 39m and has already backed up 29.97GB of your data, with presumably a whole lot more to come.

So, when you say it got stuck somewhere in the middle with nothing in the log, how long have you actually left it to run?

Large backups being performed using the default settings using MS VSS to create snapshots will pause for periods while new snapshot data is being created.  The size of snapshots depend on the amount of space allocated / available on the source drive(s).

hi,

i was waiting more then hour and i was checking directly size of the backup file .. it was not increasing...

-rw-rw-rw-+ 1 heap  heap  52739178496 Nov  7 17:12 user_full_b1_s1_v1.tib

so i dont believe its bc of snapshoting, its only 100GB.

John, 100GB is still a significant size for the backup data, along with being transferred across a network connection.

You can eliminate VSS and snapshots using the options provided on the Advanced options page for your task.  See KB 59440: Acronis True Image 2017: 'Snapshot for backup' option overview for more information on the options in this area.

its getting stuck all the time.. sometimes after 815MB transferred, other time after 60 GB i think that SOFTWARE IS CRAP. Nothing else can explain that behavior and especially if logs shows nothing.

as a proof that something fundamental is broken is that if it shows 815MB and remaining time .. and file on the backend is not increasing .. if i Stop the job.. nothing happens... white screen, Processing... basically something is completely broken but i bet those indians will never fix that.