ATIH 2019 - cannot see NAS to restore

If you can copy the backup file to another location such as an external USB attached disk you should be able to then restore the backup from there.

It is recommended that you perform restores of a Windows OS disk using the bootable media.

Thanks for your reply Enchantech. I plan to try this route but the other options I mentioned should work since it had in the past. I haven't had to do a restore in a long time.

One thing I didn't realize is when logging into my Windows account enables BitLocker. This was a new laptop setup. Lenovo C930.  I understand I may run into a snag if the backups were done with BitLocker enabled but I cannot even see the NAS using bootable media made locally on this laptop using ATIH 2019 in Win10 Home. If I try to recover from within ATIH 2019 it seems to hang or not do anything. I assume because BitLocker was enabled in those backups.

Check the BitLocker Control Panel for the actual status of your drive in this respect, or else run the command manage-bde -status from either a Command prompt or PowerShell window and that will tell you if your drive has been encrypted.

It is more likely that BitLocker is in 'waiting activation' status than actually enabled.

Backups made by ATI running in Windows would not see any encryption as BitLocker is unlocked when Windows is active, so your backup images would not be encrypted unless you use the password encryption option for your Acronis backup task advanced options setting.

You will also need a wired network connection from your computer to the NAS when using the Acronis Rescue Media as this does not have wireless support.

Steve,

I understand when on start up of a new machine and prompted to login to my MS account BitLocker is enabled. Which I did find to be the case. Turned out, since I ran into some issues, I had to login to that account to get the BitLocker password so I could refresh the PC. Essentially back to out of box state. After I was done I went back and disabled BitLocker.

However, the backups on the NAS were done while BitLocker was enabled. But I understand your point that when logged in BitLocker is unlocked so the backups should not be encrypted. I'm not using any Acronis encryption. I am on cat6 ethernet on a 1G LAN. I can see the NAS when in ATIH (after the PC refresh and install of ATIH 2019). But the process fails when trying to recover unless I'm doing something wrong. I tried via bootable media but it doesn't see the network. I even built the image to include an ethernet driver but still no luck.

Good to read that you have the BitLocker password.  I have never used a Microsoft Account on any of my computers so never encountered this behaviour with default encryption!

First question ref the network, do you see any indication of being online at all?
Can you issue ipconfig (windows) or ifconfig (linux) to check the network adapter has an IP address?

ATI uses Apple Bonjour within Windows for NAS detection, but this is not used in the rescue media so you may have to browse using the UNC address or name, \\192.168.0.?  or \\MyNAS  etc.

See KB 57992: Acronis True Image: NAS Is Not Detected - for more suggestions in this area.

Steve,

While in Win10 yes the PC can see the NAS and ATIH also does. When using bootable media it lists NAS and Network but when I try to access them nothing happens at all. Not sure the 4k resolution is helping as it seems to default to this even when using bootable media. Makes it hard to access windows and see some features.

I would suggest giving the MVP Custom ATIPE Builder script a go here for creating your rescue media.  This can inject device drivers from your computer for such as your network card, plus it also allows you to choose what screen resolution you want to use.  Link in my signature.

Will do, thanks! 

Just odd that earlier versions worked so well at this.

Maybe someone can shed some light on this.  I had been using ATIH 2017 and all worked great. After an update the auto backup process I had setup no longer worked. Acronis said there was no fix so they provided v2018. Seemed resolved so I just kept backing up with the method I've always used and it appeared to be doing so fine. Then I got an email out of the blue from support saying the issue hadn't been fixed that they need to upgrade me to v2019. What, fine I'll do it. Been using ATIH for years.

But now after I need to use ATIH it's acting really quirky. Won't always respond when trying to add backups. Won't always respond when I want it to validate. Says the backups on my NAS cannot be see and to retry but yet I can go the the backups in Windows Explorer and open them all the way down to the files and copy files over to a drive on the PC. WTH! This is happening on the desktop and new laptop with v2019. This isn't what I call progress and not what I was paying for.

Edit:

Copied backup files from my NAS to a 128G Sandisk thumb drive. Done through the laptop (thumb drive connected to laptop and the NAS via ethernet). Then started the recovery through ATIH 2019 and added the backup from the thumb drive and did a disc recovery. Appears to have completed fine.

Still don't understand how I can backup to my NAS but not restore from it. ATIH 2019 throws an error to Ignore and go to KB when I choose a backup from the NAS to restore. I navigate fine with Windows Explorer to my NAS including the ATIH backup files. But when trying to restore from within ATIH it thinks the files may have been moved even after most recent update. WTH.

SB,

Do you have trouble performing restores using the Windows installed application or does the problem arise when you are using the bootable recovery media?  If this problem is with the recovery media, is the recovery media a WinPE based media or Linux based?

First thing... Build the new WinRE or Winpe rescue media with the MVP tool 

Launch penetwork from the taskbar and verify you have a valid network IP

Then, from penetwork use the left panel and find the network option

Enter the full path to the network share such as \\192.168.1.100\acronisbackups or whatever the path would be in your case

Enter the NAS password and username and connect.  If all is well, it will map the NAS with a letter and use that in Acronis

Smb 1.0 has been deprecated due to security vulnerabilities. I suspect the older media still uses it, but current media does not. Some NAS seem to behave differently now depending in how new their firmware is. You should be able to map your backup share this way though. You can do it from command prompt too, but penetwork and the MVP GUI just make it easier.

Enchantech wrote:

SB,

Do you have trouble performing restores using the Windows installed application or does the problem arise when you are using the bootable recovery media?  If this problem is with the recovery media, is the recovery media a WinPE based media or Linux based?

****

Good question. I prefer to use the ATIH application within Windows if I can. That's where this issue has been. It works if I copy the backups to a thumb drive and connect to a USB port on the laptop. It reboots and completes the recovery fine. Just odd that I can navigate to the backup from within the app in Windows but then has trouble accessing the backups on the NAS.

I'll need to test this with boot media to see if it does the same thing.

 

Operating System disk restores (Windows disks) are recommended to be performed with boot media.  As you have witnessed when such restores are done from within the Windows application a reboot of the machine is required before the restore can take place.  In effect the application is booting into a recovery media environment when this occurs so you gain little in reality by using the Windows application to perform this type of disk restore.

For disks that only contain data a reboot is not required and therefore does not have the same recommendation.

When your PC reboots any network connection is lost so this would explain the applications behavior in your case.  The application in Windows is telling you that choosing the network connected location will be lost in the recovery process so therefore the application is not letting you chose that location for the SOURCE recovery location.

When you place the backup image you are recovering on a USB attached drive or an internal drive then the application will allow this as the SOURCE location device because it will remain initialized and connection will not be lost during reboot. 

This is why Recovery Media is recommended for Windows OS disk restores.

Enchantech wrote:

Operating System disk restores (Windows disks) are recommended to be performed with boot media.  As you have witnessed when such restores are done from within the Windows application a reboot of the machine is required before the restore can take place.  In effect the application is booting into a recovery media environment when this occurs so you gain little in reality by using the Windows application to perform this type of disk restore.

For disks that only contain data a reboot is not required and therefore does not have the same recommendation.

When your PC reboots any network connection is lost so this would explain the applications behavior in your case.  The application in Windows is telling you that choosing the network connected location will be lost in the recovery process so therefore the application is not letting you chose that location for the SOURCE recovery location.

When you place the backup image you are recovering on a USB attached drive or an internal drive then the application will allow this as the SOURCE location device because it will remain initialized and connection will not be lost during reboot. 

This is why Recovery Media is recommended for Windows OS disk restores.

**********

 

Good response. However, this method has worked for me in the past so was wondering why it no longer does (unless I've forgot but I don't believe so). What I've seen is I can choose the restore file from within Windows (from the NAS) and then ATIH restarts the PC and finishes the job. I'm going to test this via reboot media to see if I can do so via the NAS. 

 

Hmmm, I don't recall this being possible from a NAS if a reboot is required either.  You can restore, at times, where no reboot is required (for instance if just restoring data files) and it would work fine. But when a reboot is required, it's booting to a different OS (Linux) and I would expect the need to authenticate to the NAS share again as a result.

If it did work in the past (which I don't think it did, but could be wrong - although I've never seen it work like that after a reboot on my own system), then my only thought was older rescue media was based off of an older linux kernel. That kernel may have had an older nic driver that worked at the he time, but was replaced with a newer one that doesn't work on that hardware as well. This came up in another thread nit too long ago but it was an a fairly old system.

Or, the older version supported smb 1.0 and does not now because of updated security and can't connect as easily.

Keep in mind, when backing up to the NAS you are just copying data from it and not modifying the source disk or the OS. When restoring the OS, it (the OS) is already actively in use and you can't just replace it while it's running. This is why it needs to be rebooted or restored with rescue media. As soon as the OS is shutdown, that severs the network connection that the main OS had when the backups occured and does not automatically connect in the new, temporary Linux environment.

You can definitely restore a backup from the NAS with the rescue media and if this is an OS restore is the best method to use. Once booted you just need to authenticate to it in that temporary environment and then navigate to the backup and restore. The WinRE rescue media will have all the driver compatibility for your system too.

Question, how is your NAS attached to the PC, via network cable, wireless, USB?

Enchantech wrote:

Question, how is your NAS attached to the PC, via network cable, wireless, USB?

**********

It's connected to an Asus WiFi router via ethernet.

Interesting. If I open ATIH on my desktop PC I can see the laptop backups as well. Allows me to add them but then when I go to validate the file it says it cannot find it. Same if I try to validate from my laptop and I just backed up to the NAS, over WiFi!

SBMongoos wrote:

Enchantech wrote:

Question, how is your NAS attached to the PC, via network cable, wireless, USB?

**********

It's connected to an Asus WiFi router via ethernet.

Interesting. If I open ATIH on my desktop PC I can see the laptop backups as well. Allows me to add them but then when I go to validate the file it says it cannot find it. Same if I try to validate from my laptop and I just backed up to the NAS, over WiFi!

I've tried the different options for boot-able media to put on a USB drive. However, I'm not able to get onto the network so I cannot see backup files. I don't get it. I can backup but not restore. This all used to be quite easy. The video driver doesn't seem to be the best either looking at the layout of the window that loads after booting to USB.

Additionally, I cannot validate the desktop backup files from the desktop. I use Windows Explorer to nav to the files and right click to validate. Goes to ATIH and then does nothing. I can mount the files and did copy a file to the desktop. Geesh..what happened? I'm setup to backup to drive D (secondary internal drive) and on Windows login MS Synctoy copies files to the NAS. Been doing this for years. It's  now doing a validation from drive D. What I don't get is what's going on with the NAS connection. I've seen some issues off and on in the past but not for a while, until now. 

So to clarify,

Your NAS is attached to an ASUS router via ethernet cable.

You use the Synctoy app to copy files from an internal drive on your desktop to the NAS via ethernet?

You use a wireless connection for your laptop to the NAS via the ASUS router?

You cannot validate a backup on the NAS from either you desktop or your laptop?

Does you laptop backup to the NAS or does it backup to the internal drive on the desktop?

I would suspect assuming I have the answers to the questions above correct and if I do then your experiencing permission/security problems. 

Have you received at any time any warnings from Acronis Active Protection about suspicious activity or statements that a process has been blocked?

Your use of the Synctoy app adds some complexity here with regards to security.  I do not use Synctoy so I do not know how it works with networked connections but in general any connection between your computers and the NAS should be secure connections.  Prior to Win 10 version 1709 the SMB Protocol SMB1.0 was still available which allowed for vulnerabilities to exists in the network stack.  Versions later than 1709 deprecated SMB 1.0 and so it is no longer used.  If your NAS uses SMB 1.0 then this would be considered a security threat and Windows may not allow an inbound connection from the NAS to your computers.

It is also possible that True Image cannot deal with the fact that your original backup files exist on your D: drive which is where it expects to find them and when you try to validate the files on your NAS True Image cannot resolve the location of the backups because they are not in the proper place. 

How does Synctoy make connection to your NAS?  Do you have to supply credentials to access the NAS with Synctoy?  If yes then can you log to the NAS with synctoy and then run a validation of a backup file on the NAS?

Sorry for more questions than answers.

Enchantech wrote:

So to clarify,

Your NAS is attached to an ASUS router via ethernet cable.

You use the Synctoy app to copy files from an internal drive on your desktop to the NAS via ethernet?

You use a wireless connection for your laptop to the NAS via the ASUS router?

You cannot validate a backup on the NAS from either you desktop or your laptop?

Does you laptop backup to the NAS or does it backup to the internal drive on the desktop?

 

I would suspect assuming I have the answers to the questions above correct and if I do then your experiencing permission/security problems. 

Have you received at any time any warnings from Acronis Active Protection about suspicious activity or statements that a process has been blocked?

Your use of the Synctoy app adds some complexity here with regards to security.  I do not use Synctoy so I do not know how it works with networked connections but in general any connection between your computers and the NAS should be secure connections.  Prior to Win 10 version 1709 the SMB Protocol SMB1.0 was still available which allowed for vulnerabilities to exists in the network stack.  Versions later than 1709 deprecated SMB 1.0 and so it is no longer used.  If your NAS uses SMB 1.0 then this would be considered a security threat and Windows may not allow an inbound connection from the NAS to your computers.

It is also possible that True Image cannot deal with the fact that your original backup files exist on your D: drive which is where it expects to find them and when you try to validate the files on your NAS True Image cannot resolve the location of the backups because they are not in the proper place. 

How does Synctoy make connection to your NAS?  Do you have to supply credentials to access the NAS with Synctoy?  If yes then can you log to the NAS with synctoy and then run a validation of a backup file on the NAS?

Sorry for more questions than answers.

**********

I use Eset Smart Security. Have for many years. Well Eset NOD32 then switched to ESS some time ago. All this worked without issue. Eset not throwing errors and it's set to show me anything that comes up.

Your NAS is attached to an ASUS router via ethernet cable? Yes

You use the Synctoy app to copy files from an internal drive on your desktop to the NAS via ethernet? Yes

You use a wireless connection for your laptop to the NAS via the ASUS router? Yes, I've successfully backed up on WiFi and ethernet with the laptop.

You cannot validate a backup on the NAS from either you desktop or your laptop? I can from the desktop when validating the backups on the local drive D of the desktop.

Does you laptop backup to the NAS or does it backup to the internal drive on the desktop? Backs up to the NAS only.

Have you received at any time any warnings from Acronis Active Protection about suspicious activity or statements that a process has been blocked? No, I have not.

How does Synctoy make connection to your NAS?  Synctoy only runs on my desktop. ATIH backs up to internal drive D. On Windows login Synctoy then copies the files to the NAS for redundancy.

Do you have to supply credentials to access the NAS with Synctoy?  No, I have mapped the NAS in Windows Explorer

If yes then can you log to the NAS with synctoy and then run a validation of a backup file on the NAS? Synctoy only copies and deletes files.

 

 

When you mapped the NAS in Explorer did you map it as a Network Location or as a drive letter?

When you try validation do you use this same mapping to navigate to the backup files?

Can you run a test backup of a local folder, something like Documents directly to the NAS then when it has finished can you run validation?

It sounds like the app has trouble resolving the backup file location when synctoy is involved because the original file location is not being used during the validation when you desktop is involved.

I cannot explain the laptop issue.

If these methods worked previously and have now suddenly stopped working which sounds like the case then I would suggest doing a repair installation on the application.  You will need to download the installer file from your Acronis Account.  Both the previous version 14690 and the current version 17750 are available so make sure you get the correct one.  Once downloaded just right click on the installer file and select Run as administrator.  You will see the Repair option once the installer is loaded.  

If your issue was caused by a Windows update or something like that that has occurred on both machines you should run the repair on both.

You use a wireless connection for your laptop to the NAS via the ASUS router? Yes, I've successfully backed up on WiFi and ethernet with the laptop.

Try using a wired connection which has much better support in the Linux temporary boot environment and in the rescue media.  Wireless support is minimal to say the least in these environments, which are being used for recovery!

Steve Smith wrote:

You use a wireless connection for your laptop to the NAS via the ASUS router? Yes, I've successfully backed up on WiFi and ethernet with the laptop.

Try using a wired connection which has much better support in the Linux temporary boot environment and in the rescue media.  Wireless support is minimal to say the least in these environments, which are being used for recovery!

 

*************

Have done this as well. I can test again making a Linux boot USB drive with Acronis to be sure.

 

Enchantech wrote:

When you mapped the NAS in Explorer did you map it as a Network Location or as a drive letter? Drive letter.

When you try validation do you use this same mapping to navigate to the backup files? Yes. I go into Windows Explorer through the mapped drive to get to the .tib files. I right click on them and choose validate.

Can you run a test backup of a local folder, something like Documents directly to the NAS then when it has finished can you run validation? Sure, will come back to this

It sounds like the app has trouble resolving the backup file location when synctoy is involved because the original file location is not being used during the validation when you desktop is involved. -> I see Synctoy unrelated as it's completely independent from Acronis. I've run this setup for years without issue. All synctoy does is sync files between the backup directories on the secondary desktop drive, D: and the NAS. It only does this after there are file changes in the backup directories and only when logging into Windows. So, the backups, on the desktop (not the laptop, Synctoy is not running on the laptop...this is unrelated) run only on shutdown or reboot and set to once a day only. When the backup occurs and then I log back into Windows Synctoy compares the backup directories between D: and the NAS and makes sure they have the same files. After a backup drive D: will have a new .tib file so Synctoy copies it to the backup directory on the NAS. Synctoy see the NAS via a mapped drive.

 

SB,

I understand your frustration.  I also understand the workings of Synctoy thanks to your description.  I also believe that you have different problems between your desktop and your laptop.

I think in the case of your desktop the issue may be the way in which True Image tracks the location of the backup files it creates.  When you run validation on the backup files on drive D: this works unless I have misunderstood.  When you run validation on backup files that you have copied to your NAS via Synctoy the validation fails unless I have misunderstood.  Because True Image did not copy the files from D; drive to your NAS True Image may be experiencing issues because of that.  This may well be due to changes in the applications design of how it tracks file locations.  It might well be fixable and probably is so, if a repair install does not correct the issue then you will need to open a support case with Acronis to attempt to resolve the issue.

Your laptop is a different story.  From your postings I would ask if it is possible to validate backups made by your laptop to the NAS when the laptop is attached with an ethernet cable.  If it does than the issue probably has something to do with your wireless connection to the NAS.

I suspect that you have used Explorer on your laptop to map a drive letter on the NAS for backup file storage purposes.  If this is the case are you using the same drive letter on both your computers?  Another question I have is do you keep your backup files on the NAS in different folders with unique names for each of your computers?  If not then you may have backup files of the same name created by your desktop and your laptop.  I would not think this to be the case but must ask because things like this do occur.

One more question, are the connections (mapped drives) you have to the NAS, both from your desktop and your laptop, private password protected connections or are they Public, not requiring credentials to gain access?  Also, what version of Windows are you using?

SBMongoos wrote:

 

Your laptop is a different story.  From your postings I would ask if it is possible to validate backups made by your laptop to the NAS when the laptop is attached with an ethernet cable.  If it does than the issue probably has something to do with your wireless connection to the NAS. -> It also fails when trying to validate a file from the laptop while on ethernet.

I suspect that you have used Explorer on your laptop to map a drive letter on the NAS for backup file storage purposes. -> Yes

If this is the case are you using the same drive letter on both your computers?  -> No

Another question I have is do you keep your backup files on the NAS in different folders with unique names for each of your computers?  -> yes

One more question, are the connections (mapped drives) you have to the NAS, both from your desktop and your laptop, private password protected connections or are they Public, not requiring credentials to gain access? -> When I access the folders from either PC in Windows Explorer I'm not required to use a password. Same with ATIH. I've not been using the NAS option from within ATIH when browsing for files (I don't remember doing so anyway).

Also, what version of Windows are you using? -> Win 10 Pro v1809 Build 17763.379

SB,

Thanks for responding.  Based on your answers above I think you have run into the network security enhancements of Win 10 latest releases.  I believe I have pointed out earlier in this thread that since Win 10 version 1709 MS has removed SMB 1.0 from networking.  With version 1809 17763 they also have removed Homegroup from the networking protocol leaving only the Workgroup for a hostname for local networking.

Do you remember if when you mapped the drive letters to the NAS if you were required to provide credentials?  I am guessing that you did not and I also suspect that you set all this up some time ago prior to the Windows updates to version 1809 for Windows 10.  

Security vulnerabilities exist with both SMB 1.0 and the Homegroup protocols.  So Microsoft has made changes in the networking security to address them.  The result is that network devices that previously used SMB 1.0 will no longer work as expected.  If you were a Homegroup user that also ceased to work with the 17763 upgrade.  So given all that you have said here I believe these changes in Windows to be your underlying problem.

As it stands now, Windows 10 1809 17763 is going to have problems with devices on your network that do not have authenticated connections.  Other security software you may have installed may also block connections.  For NAS, servers, etc. the requirement is that the devices must support a minimum of SMB 2.0.  Additionally, such devices need to have authenticated user accounts established for connections.  This means that connections to a remote device from your computer needs to be established at a password protected user level. 

If I am correct in my assumptions and you wish to continue to use Public non protected sharing, you must change the default sharing options in Windows to accomplish this.  Be advised that even in doing so the connections still may not work properly or as expected. 

To attempt to get things working as before you can try this:

1. In the Search box on the task bar type Control Panel.
2. Once that selections appears click to open
3. Click on Network and Internet
4. Click on network and sharing
5. Click on Advanced sharing settings
6. Expand All networks
7. Tick the Turn on sharing so anyone with network access can read and write files in the Public folders

This may or may not work for you as there might be other changes needed to get things working including changes on your NAS.

The reality is that home LAN's need to be setup with authenticated password protected connections to other devices to work at Windows default settings at this point in time.

Enchantech wrote:

SB,

Do you remember if when you mapped the drive letters to the NAS if you were required to provide credentials?  -> I don't believe I did

To attempt to get things working as before you can try this:

1. In the Search box on the task bar type Control Panel.
2. Once that selections appears click to open
3. Click on Network and Internet
4. Click on network and sharing
5. Click on Advanced sharing settings
6. Expand All networks
7. Tick the Turn on sharing so anyone with network access can read and write files in the Public folders

***********

So my test, after making these changes is to navigate to Windows Explorer, go to the mapped NAS drive and drill down to a backup file and right click to have ATIH validate that file. This worked on the desktop PC but not the laptop. I tried via ethernet and WiFi on the laptop to validate but no luck. I would see it try to add the file I wanted to validate into ATIH but it would fail right away. Windows 10 Home is on the laptop and and Windows 10 Pro is on the desktop. This is an older NAS. A Seagate BlackArmor NAS. No f/w updates for a very long time. 

Appreciate your help! :-)

 

SB,

So setting your network to allow Public share access works for the desktop but not the laptop.

So I will ask this, do you have the Network Discovery tool from Seagate installed on either of your machines?

If not this may help.  Here is a link to the download  BlackArmor Discovery

You may find this link helpful as well BlackArmor Share Mapping

The installation of this software would probably help with your laptop as well.

The other thing that may help is that you might need to change the logon you use with Windows 10.  If you use an MS logon I have read that this can prevent access to the BlackArmor devices.  Changing to a Local logon reportedly solves that issue.

Enchantech wrote:

SB,

So I will ask this, do you have the Network Discovery tool from Seagate installed on either of your machines?

No, it always seemed to work very clunky so I removed it. But also I haven't used it in years.

Since Win 10 Home is on the laptop is there another setting to perhaps change? Win 10 Pro is on the desktop and I thought the network features were different on it.