Avoiding re-introduction of corruption when re installing OS software
I have a Dell Workstation 370, with my OS being Widows Vista Home Premium. My PC has 2 HD's and I have an external HD, which is 250 Gb.
I have a corruption within the OS software and the Widows on-line help facility has advised a re-installation of the OS software. I have Acronis True image Home 2009, which sadly I have not got it operating fully/regularly. So will need so assistance there.
Where I need help/advice is when/if it's the best way, how do I clone my 'C' drive, (where all my main data is), and avoid the corruption I have in my OS software being re-introduced when I get to the re-installation of my Vista Home Premium and transfer all of my data from the Acronis cloned data?
Jimlad
Hi oracledba,
Thank you for your helpful response.
Firstly the 'Help' guy from Windows tried many ways to solve the corruption problem (all done by Email). I sent screen shots etc to him. He also suggested I try a repair install, which failed So his final descision was for me to carry out a clean install, taking me back to the as new state with the OS on my 'C' drive. I would then want to copy all other uncorrupted data from the Acronis backup/cloning to the reinstalled 'C' drive.
I have read the references you pointed me to. I am not sure/worried whether the screen shots are directly refering to my edition of TI?
I will need to print the reference out and then have a go I suppose. Deep breaths.
You say "take a full backup of all partitions of a physical HD" Sorry but I don't understand? Is this a full backup of my affected 'C' drive. How do ensure all partions are backed up?
Sorry to be so thick.
Your comments and help would be appreciated.
Jimlad
A physical hard drive may (or may not) be logically divided into Partitions.
your "C:" drive is one of those partitions.
When you do your backup, backup the entire physical HD not just the c:\ portion of that HD
Most of the time partitions will have drive letters assigned to them but that is not always the case.
Sometimes partitions are created but do not have drive letters associated to them.
An example is a PC vendor (Dell/HP/Toshiba ect) will make a hidden partition of your drive
which contains the virginal image of your pc when shipped from factory. This is how
the pc vendor can have a start menu item to let you restore your PC to a factory install state.
their software simply wipes out your c: drive and replaces it with the contents of the hidden partition.
in summary, When you backup an HD you want everything about it. not just what you think is the only item (c:)
If Print out the first PDF of the hyper link found in item 7a of the link I gave you.
Figure 1 is an example of how to backup a physical HD all partitions
figure 2 is an example of what you should NOT do.
As for what version the screen prints are from I wouldn't worry about it.
The basic concepts of what to have not changed for several years.
The screen interface has been changed but the basic flow and menu items are the same so you should be able to follow step for step for step.
By all means make the image of your current disk for a safety backup, if nothing else.
It appears you are going to have to reinstall your OS and apps if I interpret the above correctly and the issue is to put back all your data files. You don't need TI to do this, just copy them using Windows Explorer to your USB drive and then copy the data files back onto the clean install. If you have apps that aren't part of whatever you are using to do the reinstall, then you will have to install them from their install CDs or installation files. TI can't do that either.
Hi oracledba,
Thank you again for your helpful response.
I have an internal HD - drive 'C', which is 250Gb another internal HD - drive 'D' , which is 400Gb and a USB connected external HD - drive 'K', which is 250Gb. I realise that the HD references C, D and K could have any letter or number to identify them.
I use my drive 'C' fot the operating system all documents and files and as my main work area. It also is where all software is loaded for all my various facilities. The corruption is in my Vista Home Premium OS.
My 'F' drive I use to store photos digital stills and video and various backups including My Documents
I use my external HD 'F' for Acronis backup. Sadly I have not got round to setting Acronis up to backup regularly to this drive.
Jimlad
Thank you Seekforever for your views on my problem,
Not sure what you mean by"If you have apps that aren't part of whatever you are using to do the reinstall" could you give me some examples please.
I use Windows Live hotmail will I be able just copy my mail and contacts to my external drive and then copy them back post reinstallation of my OS system? I had hoped I wouldn't have to go right back to square 1 and use all my CD's to re introduce my previous software. Also I hoped I wouldn't have to get everything re updated to its latest configuration.
I find I am now confused which way to go down the standard copy & past to and external drive or TI Home 9 or a combination of the two routes. Certainly I will carry out a clone of my 'C' drive or should it be a backup? Again not sure if they are one and the same thing??
I await your kind advice
Jimlad
"If you have apps that aren't part of whatever you are using to do the reinstall"
If you have computer from a vendor such as Dell or HP or whatever, they often provide a CD/DVD for restoring to the state the computer was when it came from the factory. If those disks include some applications in addition to the WIndows then they would get installed when you do the restoration. If you apps were downloaded or purchased from other sources then you will have to reinstall them on your freshly installed OS. Yes, you will have to do any Windows or application updates.
You cannot just copy over the application's files from the old disk or out of a TI backup and have it work since the applications make entries into the registry and can setup folders and configuration files in various places on the HD in some cases.
I can't help you with Windows Live Hotmail.
Making a backup with TI and then extracting files from it is similar to copying and pasting files to the external HD. Since you are doing a major revision of your C drive and you do have data files on C, I'd do both for safety. FWIW, I personally never keep any important data files on C just for the reason you are dealing with. It's nice being able to blow away the OS without worrying about data files and by having fewer files on C, it is faster to make images which are smaller and so I'm more inclined to do it since I only image manually when I feel like it.
Now, you may wonder about "when I feel like it". That's because my data files are not on C and they are backed up regularly with another program. I can always revert to some previous image of C if really necessary and even if I can't I don't see it as such a big deal since I can always reinstall Windows and apps without losing anything but a bit of time. Keeping my data files secure is by far the most important thing.
Hi Seekfoerever,
Been away hence the delay in responding.
Hi Seekfoerever,
Been away hence the delay in responding.
I really go for what you say in your last 2 paragraphs and want to emulate your approach on my system. As such, I would appreciate so further guidance on the way forward for me.
My dell system was shipped from Dell with XP installed I have since bought Vista Home Premium and installed myself, early 2009. Therefore, when I do a re-install the CD/DVD only has Vista on it as supplied. All my other apps are either downloads or I have an appropriate CD/DVD.
My internal ‘C’ drive has a capacity of 232GB, of which 97.4GB is used and 135GB is free. If I follow your outline above, I would load my OS on this drive. This would then wipe the drive of all previous data?
What else/sort of things would also be on this drive?
Then on my internal drive ‘F’, I would have all my personal documents. Would this include my Emails and contacts?
Would I also install all my other apps on my ‘F’ drive?
As I have not used this sort of approach before, I assume there is no problem with interactions between the two separate drives working together as they did when all this data was on drive’C’?
With my current setup, I always considered my external drive ‘K’ to be my drive where I kept my TI backups and anything I wanted to protect. I assume this approach would/could continue?
My starting point, to make the change is to clear out my historical backup in external drive ‘K’ and create my own backups of my up to date data using both copy and paste and a clone? of my ‘C’ drive using TI 9?
You mention you use “another program” for backups? Should I be aware here also?
Sorry so many questions, but having had these reinstallation issues before your approach seems eminentally sensible.
Jimlad
You mention the word "clone". In TI terminology, this means making a duplicate copy of the source HD on a target HD. It includes all of the partitions if more than one on the source. Anything on the target drive is deleted and it ends up with only the information that was on the source drive. It is intended for replacing an old disk with a new disk, not as a backup but it will obviously do as a backup since it is a copy of the source.
Normally, backups of the OS etc are done as images. The input to an image can be 1 or all of the partitions on the source drive and the data is written to the target device as a large file or collection of files. Any other data on the target is left there. You can have as many different images on a target as the device will hold, thus you can have a "history" and roll-back to a given time by restoring that image.
TI also makes what they call Data Backups, which used to be known as Files and Folders. You can select any or all files and folders on a partition or partitions and create a backup. It is slower than imaging and you cannot restore a bootable volume even if you backup all the files in this manner.
So before you start, make an image of your C drive (which I believe is the only partition on the physical drive) for safety. Validate it.
Next copy with Windows Explorer all of you data files on C to your external. If you email program has a data backup or export feature use it. Unless you changed the default, your mail files are stored on C. Reinstalling Vista should not have any impact on your F drive content. If you want to be sure, unplug it. I am assuming F is your second internal HD - your letters up above don't seem consistent to me.
What is important in the above, is that you have secure copies of your important data files just in case...
I have virtually no Vista experience but is it possible to do a repair installation or similar. This could correct your problems and leave your present data, even on C, intact possibly. This would be on the Vista MS install DVD.
Assuming you start by reformatting the drive C is on and doing a complete reinstallation of Vista and apps:
Format and partition, if desired, the drive - this wipes it clean. If you are going to keep most of your data on a second partition, you could partition the drive as 2 partitions, one for the OS and application installation, and the second for data. I'd just make each one 50% of the total since your drive isn't huge.
Install Vista and the applications to C. IMO, there is no benefit in installing applications to a different partition than C because the installation routine writes data into the registry which is always on the drive the OS is installed on (C typically). My only variant on this rule is if you are dealing with very large games that rarely change and by keeping the install on a different partition, you can reduce the time and space taken to image C with TI.
Whether or not you have your email and contacts on the second internal, F, depends on how you want it and how you set it up. (I'll come clean, my email is on C and is only backed up when I make an image but my principle email backup is done by leaving the email on my ISPs server. Safe but you do have to clean it up every now and then.) My contacts list is pretty stagnant and not overly important.
Don't clear out historical backups if you don't need the space on your external. You should always keep as many as reasonable and you should never only have 1 backup. You said TI9, I assume you mean TI2009 which you wrote in an earlier post.
You don't need another backup program but I and some others prefer to backup our data files using things like Karen's Replicator, SyncBack, etc. Google replicator backup and you will find several and they usually have free versions without the advanced features. The reason we like to use them is that it doesn't stuff the data backup into proprietary container files. It just makes a copy of the data files on a different device but the files are individual and in the same folder structure as the original. You can do the same by copying with Windows Explorer but these programs let you schedule, do incrementals, exclude files, etc. Not essential at all but preferred by some.
FWIW, my PCs have 2 internal HDs. On the first HD is C and at least one data partition. I keep important data files in the data partition with my own folder structure. I only use My Documents, My Pictures, etc as scratch folders but these as you have done can be moved to a different drive or partiton. I use the second internal as a backup location for images and data files. There is a common point of failure in this setup, the controller, but it is the drives that usually fail and cause the most grief, not controllers. For extra security, I then copy my data files backup and selected images (not all of them) to an external for additional security. This is done every now and then.
Thanks Seekforever,
I have been away from my desk again, so not been able to try anything yet.
However, I very much appreciate your a very useful explanation of Cloning and imaging using TI. In addition, all of the other information and advice given.
Sorry I still have more questions:
When TI 2009 offers the “one-click protection”, is that a clone or image?
The other option is “Back Up” – ‘Create a back up of your data’. This option means to me, only data are backed up, not your settings, partitions etc. Is my interpretation correct?
Therefore, when you advise as follows:
“So before you start, make an image of your C drive (which I believe is the only partition on the physical drive) for safety. Validate it.”
Which option do I select? In addition, what/ how do I validate it?
Where should I store the image I have made of my ‘C’ drive, on my 400 Gb internal ‘F’ drive, on my internal 250Gb ‘C’ Drive or on my external 250Gb ‘K’ drive?
Currently my ‘C’ drive properties shows 109Gb used.
You comment on my drive lettering allocations, that “your letters up above don't seem consistent to me.”
This lettering evolved, I think because I had a Belkin photo card reader connected with 4 removable disk slots H, I,J & L, then I added my ‘K’ external drive. Hope it makes some sense now?
Regarding your comment “is it possible to do a repair installation or similar. This could correct your problems and leave your present data, even on C, intact possibly. This would be on the Vista MS install DVD.”
I spent a lot of time via Emails with a Microsoft expert trying a number of options, including ‘Repair Install’, which failed to correct the problem. Is it worth trying it yet again?
“Assuming you start by reformatting the drive C is on and doing a complete reinstallation of Vista and apps:
Format and partition, if desired, the drive - this wipes it clean.”
I thought if I did a ‘Clean reinstall of Vista it wiped the ‘C drive clean? Are you also recommending I do a format and then divide the drive in half before I do the reinstallation of Vista?
I do not have any large games, so that is not an issue. Therefore, I will end up, as you suggest, with half of Drive ‘C’ with the OS Vista and apps and the other half with my personal data. Sounds good to me.
You say:
“you don't need another backup program” are you referring to TI 2009 or the Widows vista back up? Alternatively, both?
There will be some delay before I can put this into operation, as I have recently got back from a
73 night cruise so I have over 800 photos to process/sort onto a DVD to bore the family and friends!!
Jimlad
Thanks Seekforever,
I have been away from my desk again, so not been able to try anything yet.
However, I very much appreciate your a very useful explanation of Cloning and imaging using TI. In addition, all of the other information and advice given.
Sorry I still have more questions:
When TI 2009 offers the “one-click protection”, is that a clone or image?
Never use it but I believe it is an image of your C drive and the MBR. They refer to 'System Volume" which I assume is C.
The other option is “Back Up” – ‘Create a back up of your data’. This option means to me, only data are backed up, not your settings, partitions etc. Is my interpretation correct?
If you click on Backup then you go to the next screen where you can select My Computer, My Data, System State, ... . My computer lets you create an image of the entire disk or selected partitions. My Data is the files and folders only backup for data which is will not restore a bootable volume.
Therefore, when you advise as follows:
“So before you start, make an image of your C drive (which I believe is the only partition on the physical drive) for safety. Validate it.”
Which option do I select? In addition, what/ how do I validate it?
Select the My Computer which takes you into the backup wizard. Select the C drive - it will automatically do the MBR as well.
Where should I store the image I have made of my ‘C’ drive, on my 400 Gb internal ‘F’ drive, on my internal 250Gb ‘C’ Drive or on my external 250Gb ‘K’ drive?
Then internal 400GB would be the fastest and an internal is usually the least problematic to do a a restore from but you could also do the external drive or both for some safety.
Currently my ‘C’ drive properties shows 109Gb used.
It will take very,very roughly about an hour to create the image and about the same time again for the validate.
You can tell TI to validate it after creating the archive on the backup options page in the wizard. You can do it independent of the wizard unter the Operations menu item.
To be safe, if you have never restored an archive with TI on this PC before is to boot up the recovery CD and do the validate with it. This will ensure the linux environment on the TI rescue CD can handle your hardware properly. When restoring C, this is the environment that is used, not Windows, so it must be able to run. The normal good advice is to do a test restore to a spare HD to really make sure it works properly.
You comment on my drive lettering allocations, that “your letters up above don't seem consistent to me.”
This lettering evolved, I think because I had a Belkin photo card reader connected with 4 removable disk slots H, I,J & L, then I added my ‘K’ external drive. Hope it makes some sense now?
OK
Regarding your comment “is it possible to do a repair installation or similar. This could correct your problems and leave your present data, even on C, intact possibly. This would be on the Vista MS install DVD.”
I spent a lot of time via Emails with a Microsoft expert trying a number of options, including ‘Repair Install’, which failed to correct the problem. Is it worth trying it yet again?
Not likely.
“Assuming you start by reformatting the drive C is on and doing a complete reinstallation of Vista and apps:
Format and partition, if desired, the drive - this wipes it clean.”
I thought if I did a ‘Clean reinstall of Vista it wiped the ‘C drive clean? Are you also recommending I do a format and then divide the drive in half before I do the reinstallation of Vista?
I do not have any large games, so that is not an issue. Therefore, I will end up, as you suggest, with half of Drive ‘C’ with the OS Vista and apps and the other half with my personal data. Sounds good to me.
No, if you do start with Vista and repartition the drive into 2 halves and then format each half, that will do it all. Just make real sure you have your important data files well backed up and recoverable. I can't recall exactly everything that has transpired but I'd do a Windows explorer copy to your other internal or external of your personal data files (photos, documents, etc) as well as an image.
You say:
“you don't need another backup program” are you referring to TI 2009 or the Widows vista back up? Alternatively, both?
There will be some delay before I can put this into operation, as I have recently got back from a
73 night cruise so I have over 800 photos to process/sort onto a DVD to bore the family and friends!!Jimlad
My point was that TI will backup files and folders (never used the Vista one) and you can also backup by just copying the files using Windows Explorer to your external or second internal drive. Personally, for things like photos or important spreadsheets, etc, I'd have more than one backup copy. These are things you can't replace at any cost or find anywhere else unlike Windows or Applications.
Thanks Seekforever,
I will digest what you have said and hopefully fully understand, to enable me to do the reinstall fully, having stored duplicate copies of my important personal data.
Will let you know in due course how it all went.
Jimlad
Hi Seekforever,
More questions:
1) I am hoping to carry out the OS re-installation soon and in thinking it through, it occured to me, how do I direct the OS system and Apps to, say partition 'A' and personal files etc to partion 'B' of my 'C' drive? What will appear on the screen?
2) Also once I have this 50/50 ratio split in my 'C' drive, will I be able to easily change it, should a need arise, without going through the whole process of backing up etc again?
3) I have it at the back of my mind that another part of the 'C' drive is taken automatically for something in the overall operation of the system, is it buffering or something. I recall reading somewhare that it can be increased or decreased if needed?
Is this wrong and if not, need I take it into consideration when setting up the partitions?
Jimlad