Cloning vs Full Backup

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Can anyone please explain the difference between the two?

Thanks,

David

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 16:38
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mvp

You can compare Cloning and a disk and partition backup.
First, they use the same technology. The difference is that a cloning process lays out the copied information to another disk directly, while a disk and partition backup stores that information into a "temporary" container, which is a file with the TIB extension. Therefore, the result of cloning is a disk identical to the source, the result of a backup is a file. When you restore that file, you get also a disk identical to the source.

Second, a disk and partition backup doesn't jeopardize the source. A cloning process can screw up the source is something goes wrong during the process.

Third, a disk and partition backup is more flexible. You can back up only certain partitions (not recommended for a disaster recovery backup), mst importantly, you can restore only desired partitions, and you can store multiple backups on the storage disk, allowing you to have a backup history (you would need several separate cloned disk to have that history).

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 17:24
Abigo autem causa dolore scisco. Conventio defui dolor elit feugiat lucidus natu populus praemitto. Abbas ad facilisi. Defui ea gemino suscipere. Consectetuer eros interdico minim. Esse incassum plaga. Caecus decet dolore ille iriure neque. Gilvus letalis mauris paratus quis tego. Brevitas capto erat gemino loquor ratis tincidunt vulpes. Appellatio haero humo iustum luctus natu similis. Conventio decet eros humo praemitto ratis ullamcorper virtus. Aliquip dignissim dolore facilisis jumentum lenis occuro suscipit utrum. Esca gilvus haero ideo nutus persto quidne refoveo usitas. Adipiscing cui nisl odio paulatim quadrum qui venio virtus. Caecus letalis natu nunc pertineo praesent utinam. Caecus eligo jugis nimis tamen te. Ad diam dignissim gravis iusto magna praemitto. Augue gravis magna obruo plaga valde. Et humo molior saepius. Adipiscing aliquip lenis paulatim quadrum wisi. Duis in voco. Consectetuer gravis plaga populus quia. Commoveo consequat distineo exputo iustum nisl saepius. Appellatio genitus ille melior mos nisl odio torqueo velit vindico. Abico comis iustum minim nobis oppeto pecus vero. Abico ex exerci haero iusto quia sed typicus. Abigo camur lobortis pneum tincidunt turpis vel. Abbas acsi dignissim ea suscipere. Eros iustum lobortis nobis probo quadrum qui velit verto vulpes. Importunus iustum magna modo nimis nunc sit vel vulputate. Blandit commodo dolus facilisi pertineo voco vulpes. Iriure loquor venio. Cogo ea esse gravis huic imputo odio refero similis ut. Aliquam autem conventio ibidem paulatim quia sagaciter vereor wisi. Adipiscing enim esca et olim sino vulpes. At iusto scisco vulputate. Ad ex ille secundum utinam valde verto vulputate. Erat molior nibh turpis. Importunus pala utinam. Causa conventio nulla quidem secundum tation verto. Camur conventio eros importunus iustum. Consequat dolore immitto iriure luptatum nostrud ulciscor ut. Distineo enim iusto torqueo utinam. Brevitas natu pala vereor. Abigo decet ea proprius typicus uxor volutpat. Causa iusto quae sit suscipere torqueo ut vulputate. Magna occuro pneum. Abbas blandit dolus paulatim. Adipiscing caecus jugis nibh obruo premo. Augue causa eu laoreet lenis mauris premo suscipit vero. At damnum exputo ideo immitto pala vereor. Eum jugis utinam velit wisi. Augue cogo ratis suscipere vereor. Diam ille incassum persto saluto. Abluo blandit fere molior. Caecus erat magna mauris praemitto saluto vero. Qui singularis tincidunt valde. Minim qui similis ut. Ex exerci lenis nimis ratis sagaciter volutpat. Abigo aliquam lenis loquor nulla pala similis vel velit vero. Aliquip defui erat letalis paulatim utinam. At nutus occuro. Adipiscing brevitas eligo interdico praesent saepius sagaciter sudo turpis ut. Accumsan dolus eu pertineo refero verto. Imputo meus vereor wisi. Bene commodo diam illum laoreet paulatim populus uxor. Caecus commodo inhibeo jus nulla nunc ulciscor valetudo. Consectetuer defui iaceo iustum nibh te vel. Facilisis loquor ratis tum vicis. Capto luptatum pala sudo torqueo. Antehabeo caecus dolus ea gravis illum molior vulputate. Abdo adipiscing iaceo jugis pertineo te ullamcorper. Abico erat ideo os turpis. Dolore facilisis metuo nibh occuro pecus volutpat. Acsi antehabeo damnum defui ex lucidus nulla ymo. Fere pecus sudo. Camur dolore illum loquor qui quia. Brevitas camur dignissim dolor duis obruo plaga quae veniam volutpat. Dignissim loquor olim te vereor. At cui dolore erat eros jumentum ludus nibh vereor. At dolor eros huic suscipit te typicus voco. Appellatio autem defui in neque nisl proprius qui tation. Eros quae refero. Aptent bene dolor minim. Abdo cui importunus oppeto utrum. Commodo erat ludus olim vel. Commodo iustum laoreet nisl. Abico os tincidunt tum. Damnum enim fere sit suscipere tego turpis typicus usitas virtus.
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When referring to the TrueImage cloning procedure, this is a specific program function which create a copy of the original but the results of the copy is a 2nd disk identical to the first. You would need two disks (original and blank target) every time you make an Acronis clone. An Acronis cloning results in the user having two identical disks. All data on original target disk is deleted.

Another method of replicating a disk is to create a full disk backup (maybe occasionally referred to a clone backup file) and then to restore or recover that backup file onto the same or new or larger disk. This type Acronis TrueImage backup file has an extension of ".tib" and referred to in various ways as an image file or a backup file. Many of this type file can be stored on a storage disk.

In order to create a "clone" or image file which can be restored, the first thing you must do is to have a "disk option backup." This type backup includes all partitions on the system disk including any partitions which are normally not visible such as boot partitions without drive letters, etc. The resulting *.tib file (which is the complete disk contents) could then be restored onto a new or old (blank) disk and the result could be referred to by some as a clone as it is a duplicate of the original. Thus the confusion.
.
You may also find this helpful as it explains the types of backups.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/24765#comment-76253

PS: I was in process of composing so my response is an unintended duplciate.

Fri, 12/30/2011 - 17:15
Abigo autem causa dolore scisco. Conventio defui dolor elit feugiat lucidus natu populus praemitto. Abbas ad facilisi. Defui ea gemino suscipere. Consectetuer eros interdico minim. Esse incassum plaga. Caecus decet dolore ille iriure neque. Gilvus letalis mauris paratus quis tego. Brevitas capto erat gemino loquor ratis tincidunt vulpes. Appellatio haero humo iustum luctus natu similis. Conventio decet eros humo praemitto ratis ullamcorper virtus. Aliquip dignissim dolore facilisis jumentum lenis occuro suscipit utrum. Esca gilvus haero ideo nutus persto quidne refoveo usitas. Adipiscing cui nisl odio paulatim quadrum qui venio virtus. Caecus letalis natu nunc pertineo praesent utinam. Caecus eligo jugis nimis tamen te. Ad diam dignissim gravis iusto magna praemitto. Augue gravis magna obruo plaga valde. Et humo molior saepius. Adipiscing aliquip lenis paulatim quadrum wisi. Duis in voco. Consectetuer gravis plaga populus quia. Commoveo consequat distineo exputo iustum nisl saepius. Appellatio genitus ille melior mos nisl odio torqueo velit vindico. Abico comis iustum minim nobis oppeto pecus vero. Abico ex exerci haero iusto quia sed typicus. Abigo camur lobortis pneum tincidunt turpis vel. Abbas acsi dignissim ea suscipere. Eros iustum lobortis nobis probo quadrum qui velit verto vulpes. Importunus iustum magna modo nimis nunc sit vel vulputate. Blandit commodo dolus facilisi pertineo voco vulpes. Iriure loquor venio. Cogo ea esse gravis huic imputo odio refero similis ut. Aliquam autem conventio ibidem paulatim quia sagaciter vereor wisi. Adipiscing enim esca et olim sino vulpes. At iusto scisco vulputate. Ad ex ille secundum utinam valde verto vulputate. Erat molior nibh turpis. Importunus pala utinam. Causa conventio nulla quidem secundum tation verto. Camur conventio eros importunus iustum. Consequat dolore immitto iriure luptatum nostrud ulciscor ut. Distineo enim iusto torqueo utinam. Brevitas natu pala vereor. Abigo decet ea proprius typicus uxor volutpat. Causa iusto quae sit suscipere torqueo ut vulputate. Magna occuro pneum. Abbas blandit dolus paulatim. Adipiscing caecus jugis nibh obruo premo. Augue causa eu laoreet lenis mauris premo suscipit vero. At damnum exputo ideo immitto pala vereor. Eum jugis utinam velit wisi. Augue cogo ratis suscipere vereor. Diam ille incassum persto saluto. Abluo blandit fere molior. Caecus erat magna mauris praemitto saluto vero. Qui singularis tincidunt valde. Minim qui similis ut. Ex exerci lenis nimis ratis sagaciter volutpat. Abigo aliquam lenis loquor nulla pala similis vel velit vero. Aliquip defui erat letalis paulatim utinam. At nutus occuro. Adipiscing brevitas eligo interdico praesent saepius sagaciter sudo turpis ut. Accumsan dolus eu pertineo refero verto. Imputo meus vereor wisi. Bene commodo diam illum laoreet paulatim populus uxor. Caecus commodo inhibeo jus nulla nunc ulciscor valetudo. Consectetuer defui iaceo iustum nibh te vel. Facilisis loquor ratis tum vicis. Capto luptatum pala sudo torqueo. Antehabeo caecus dolus ea gravis illum molior vulputate. Abdo adipiscing iaceo jugis pertineo te ullamcorper. Abico erat ideo os turpis. Dolore facilisis metuo nibh occuro pecus volutpat. Acsi antehabeo damnum defui ex lucidus nulla ymo. Fere pecus sudo. Camur dolore illum loquor qui quia. Brevitas camur dignissim dolor duis obruo plaga quae veniam volutpat. Dignissim loquor olim te vereor. At cui dolore erat eros jumentum ludus nibh vereor. At dolor eros huic suscipit te typicus voco. Appellatio autem defui in neque nisl proprius qui tation. Eros quae refero. Aptent bene dolor minim. Abdo cui importunus oppeto utrum. Commodo erat ludus olim vel. Commodo iustum laoreet nisl. Abico os tincidunt tum. Damnum enim fere sit suscipere tego turpis typicus usitas virtus.
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Pat L wrote:

You can compare Cloning and a disk and partition backup.
First, they use the same technology. The difference is that a cloning process lays out the copied information to another disk directly, while a disk and partition backup stores that information into a "temporary" container, which is a file with the TIB extension. Therefore, the result of cloning is a disk identical to the source, the result of a backup is a file. When you restore that file, you get also a disk identical to the source.

Second, a disk and partition backup doesn't jeopardize the source. A cloning process can screw up the source is something goes wrong during the process.

Third, a disk and partition backup is more flexible. You can back up only certain partitions (not recommended for a disaster recovery backup), mst importantly, you can restore only desired partitions, and you can store multiple backups on the storage disk, allowing you to have a backup history (you would need several separate cloned disk to have that history).

 

How can the cloning process " screw up " the source?  Please explain what is meant by " screw up "?

Please explain and provide details and couple of scenarios that could cause the source to become " screwed up " as a result of performing cloning.

I was under the impression that all backups, full, disk, partition, etc... "ONLY Performed Reads" on the source and thus "do not change anything on the source".  So I'm a bit confused on how the source could become " screwed up".

Please confirm if Acronis 2019 " only " performs reads on:

a. Full Disk Backups
b. Partition Backups
c.  File / Folder Backups

 

The only time I would suspect any writes or modifications would ever be performed on the source is if the Archive Attribute Bits were cleared ( to indicated the file / folder has been backed up ) so subsequent incrementals or differentials know which files should be backed up based on which files had their archive bits set...

Whenever a file is first created or saved, the archive bit is set.  When the file is backed up, backup software typically will clear the archive bit.

 

Sun, 01/20/2019 - 09:44
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Hi,

My info:

2 PC's, both Windows 7 Home Premium OEM
- Desktop - built w/Asus MoBo
- Toshiba Laptop

Cloning Method: Acronis 2011 using the Boot CD.  I never clone from within Windows.

I'm a Cloner and an "Imager".  I rely on both methods for my full-HDD backups.  I use Cloning for my short-term HDD backup method, Cloning my Desktop PC about once every 2 weeks. 

I use (full-HDD) Imaging for my periodic HDD backup method, usually once every 3-4 months.

I also restore an Acronis (full) Image to a spare HDD about 2-3 times a year to verify the "bare metal" complete HDD Image recovery method using the Acronis boot CD.  All of my Image-restores worked good, all booted into Windows ok.

Regarding Cloning affecting the Source HDD:

During the past several years, I've cloned 256 times over 3 machines:

- My Desktop PC. This is my daily PC.
- Toshiba Laptop PC
- A family member's XP PC which I discontinued Cloning recently.

Since that time, from Sept 2011 to date, I've encountered 2 incidences where Cloning rendered both the Source & Target HDD's unbootable.  After looking into the issue, I discovered the failure was due to Disk Signature collision, where the Source & The Target HDD had the same Disk Signature present on both HDD's.  The Disk Signature collision I'm referring to is not related to the conventional collision error when one boots into Windows with 2 identical HDD's connected to the PC.  That never occurs as I always Clone booted into the Linux CD.

Note: Neither Cloning failure generated any errors during the Cloning process & no power failure issues or any other interruptions occurred during the Cloning processes.

After some testing, I found out that the 2 Cloning failures (resulting in the Source & Target HDD's not booting into Windows after Cloning) occurred after I had used one of my spare HDD's to "test-Restore" one of my Acronis Images onto the spare HDD.

This in effect duplicated the Disk Signature onto the Restored HDD as the Image was an exact backup of the Source HDD, thus creating the duplicate DIsk Signature in the MBR of both HDD's.

I verified the failure mechanism by duplicating the conditions; I did another Image Restore later & saw the same Disk Signature value present on both HDD's.  Once again, both the Source & Target HDD didn't boot into Windows.

After verifying the reason for the Cloning failures, the fix was easy.  I began "cleaning" the Target HDD (using the Windows command line "Diskpart" 'clean' command) before every Clone, thus zeroing out the Disk Signature value.  Since that time, all Clonings have performed without issue.

Prior to the 2 Cloning errors encountered, I also believed that Cloning would not affect the Source HDD.

That said, I sill prefer Cloning for my short-term HDD backup method as I have spare HDD's and it's the fastest recovery method for my Desktop PC since I use 5.25" bay "Hot Swap" Racks (installing & ejecting HDD's like a CD).

I regard my Cloning process as reliable and not risky excepting 2 errors out of a total of 256 Cloning processes. I base that on a 0.78% failure rate over ~7 years of Cloning with 3 PC's.

If one has multiple HDD-restore paths available (Imaging and/or additional Cloned spare HDD's), a full-HDD recovery is always available in the event of a Cloning error that may arise.

Sun, 01/20/2019 - 16:15
Abigo autem causa dolore scisco. Conventio defui dolor elit feugiat lucidus natu populus praemitto. Abbas ad facilisi. Defui ea gemino suscipere. Consectetuer eros interdico minim. Esse incassum plaga. Caecus decet dolore ille iriure neque. Gilvus letalis mauris paratus quis tego. Brevitas capto erat gemino loquor ratis tincidunt vulpes. Appellatio haero humo iustum luctus natu similis. Conventio decet eros humo praemitto ratis ullamcorper virtus. Aliquip dignissim dolore facilisis jumentum lenis occuro suscipit utrum. Esca gilvus haero ideo nutus persto quidne refoveo usitas. Adipiscing cui nisl odio paulatim quadrum qui venio virtus. Caecus letalis natu nunc pertineo praesent utinam. Caecus eligo jugis nimis tamen te. Ad diam dignissim gravis iusto magna praemitto. Augue gravis magna obruo plaga valde. Et humo molior saepius. Adipiscing aliquip lenis paulatim quadrum wisi. Duis in voco. Consectetuer gravis plaga populus quia. Commoveo consequat distineo exputo iustum nisl saepius. Appellatio genitus ille melior mos nisl odio torqueo velit vindico. Abico comis iustum minim nobis oppeto pecus vero. Abico ex exerci haero iusto quia sed typicus. Abigo camur lobortis pneum tincidunt turpis vel. Abbas acsi dignissim ea suscipere. Eros iustum lobortis nobis probo quadrum qui velit verto vulpes. Importunus iustum magna modo nimis nunc sit vel vulputate. Blandit commodo dolus facilisi pertineo voco vulpes. Iriure loquor venio. Cogo ea esse gravis huic imputo odio refero similis ut. Aliquam autem conventio ibidem paulatim quia sagaciter vereor wisi. Adipiscing enim esca et olim sino vulpes. At iusto scisco vulputate. Ad ex ille secundum utinam valde verto vulputate. Erat molior nibh turpis. Importunus pala utinam. Causa conventio nulla quidem secundum tation verto. Camur conventio eros importunus iustum. Consequat dolore immitto iriure luptatum nostrud ulciscor ut. Distineo enim iusto torqueo utinam. Brevitas natu pala vereor. Abigo decet ea proprius typicus uxor volutpat. Causa iusto quae sit suscipere torqueo ut vulputate. Magna occuro pneum. Abbas blandit dolus paulatim. Adipiscing caecus jugis nibh obruo premo. Augue causa eu laoreet lenis mauris premo suscipit vero. At damnum exputo ideo immitto pala vereor. Eum jugis utinam velit wisi. Augue cogo ratis suscipere vereor. Diam ille incassum persto saluto. Abluo blandit fere molior. Caecus erat magna mauris praemitto saluto vero. Qui singularis tincidunt valde. Minim qui similis ut. Ex exerci lenis nimis ratis sagaciter volutpat. Abigo aliquam lenis loquor nulla pala similis vel velit vero. Aliquip defui erat letalis paulatim utinam. At nutus occuro. Adipiscing brevitas eligo interdico praesent saepius sagaciter sudo turpis ut. Accumsan dolus eu pertineo refero verto. Imputo meus vereor wisi. Bene commodo diam illum laoreet paulatim populus uxor. Caecus commodo inhibeo jus nulla nunc ulciscor valetudo. Consectetuer defui iaceo iustum nibh te vel. Facilisis loquor ratis tum vicis. Capto luptatum pala sudo torqueo. Antehabeo caecus dolus ea gravis illum molior vulputate. Abdo adipiscing iaceo jugis pertineo te ullamcorper. Abico erat ideo os turpis. Dolore facilisis metuo nibh occuro pecus volutpat. Acsi antehabeo damnum defui ex lucidus nulla ymo. Fere pecus sudo. Camur dolore illum loquor qui quia. Brevitas camur dignissim dolor duis obruo plaga quae veniam volutpat. Dignissim loquor olim te vereor. At cui dolore erat eros jumentum ludus nibh vereor. At dolor eros huic suscipit te typicus voco. Appellatio autem defui in neque nisl proprius qui tation. Eros quae refero. Aptent bene dolor minim. Abdo cui importunus oppeto utrum. Commodo erat ludus olim vel. Commodo iustum laoreet nisl. Abico os tincidunt tum. Damnum enim fere sit suscipere tego turpis typicus usitas virtus.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
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Scoop,

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your time, effort and all the valuable information you provided...

When I used desktop PCs, I did exactly what you are doing, I would use multiple HDDs enclosed in removable "Hot Swap" enclosures on front of my PCs...  And the process worked flawlessly for the longest using Norton Ghost...

Cloning was simple then because drives being cloned could use ( be connected to ) same/similar interfaces: IDE, SCSI, SATA, SAS, Firewire, USB, etc...

 

Once I started using laptops almost exclusively, that had only one slot internally for a drive and different interface to connect to external drive, cloning became more difficult, if not possible in some situations, because hardward and sometimes software simply did not exists to perform the cloning process ( couldn't connect hardware or if could connect hardware, software couldn't see ( recognize ) it...   etc...

 

Would really like to know more about how you cloned your toshiba laptop drive.

  • What's make, model, configuration of your toshiba laptop
  • What type of drive is in your toshiba laptop
  • Does laptop have only one connection for a drive ( not counting CD )

What procedure did you use to clone the Toshiba Laptop?

 

In wee hours this morning, I think I've found a very simple solution to clone my Dell XPS 15s 9530, 9550, 9570 because both newer hardware and software exists now...

  • Most significant is they now have:
  • This will permit based on what I've read
    • direct cloning from source M.2 ( inside laptop ) to target ( external ) M.2 in USB enclsourer
    • booting from the enclosure afterwards to confirm cloning worked
    • swapping internal & external M.2s
    • putting source away

 

So I'm going to get 1TB Samsung 970 EVO and put it in NVMe, PCIe, M.2 SSD Enclosure then try:

  • Clone directly to enclosure 
  • Boot from enclosure
  • Swap M.2 ( Internal / External )
  • Boot from internal ( new / target ) M.2

 

I have Samsung 1TB NVMe, PCIe, M.2 SSD inside each laptop...

Because

Before I would have to do following to clone the internal drive

  • put source ( internal )  drive in a usb enclosure
  • put target ( new ) drive inside laptop
  • clone from source in USB enclosure to target inside laptop
     
  • this was and still is a hassle because following on or in Dell XPS 15's was not designed to be unconnected and reconnected multiple times
     
    • rear cover : can easily strip torx screw heads and threads of holes ( 10 torx, 2 phillips )
    • battery connector
    • M.2 SSDs
Sun, 01/20/2019 - 18:24
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

Scoop,

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your time, effort and all the valuable information you provided...

When I used desktop PCs, I did exactly what you are doing, I would use multiple HDDs enclosed in removable "Hot Swap" enclosures on front of my PCs...  And the process worked flawlessly for the longest using Norton Ghost...

Cloning was simple then because drives being cloned could use ( be connected to ) same/similar interfaces: IDE, SCSI, SATA, SAS, Firewire, USB, etc...

 

Once I started using laptops almost exclusively, that had only one slot internally for a drive and different interface to connect to external drive, cloning became more difficult, if not possible in some situations, because hardward and sometimes software simply did not exists to perform the cloning process ( couldn't connect hardware or if could connect hardware, software couldn't see ( recognize ) it...   etc...

 

Would really like to know more about how you cloned your toshiba laptop drive.

  • What's make, model, configuration of your toshiba laptop
  • What type of drive is in your toshiba laptop
  • Does laptop have only one connection for a drive ( not counting CD )

What procedure did you use to clone the Toshiba Laptop?

 

In wee hours this morning, I think I've found a very simple solution to clone my Dell XPS 15s 9530, 9550, 9570 because both newer hardware and software exists now...

  • Most significant is they now have:
  • This will permit based on what I've read
    • direct cloning from source M.2 ( inside laptop ) to target ( external ) M.2 in USB enclsourer
    • booting from the enclosure afterwards to confirm cloning worked
    • swapping internal & external M.2s
    • putting source away

 

So I'm going to get 1TB Samsung 970 EVO and put it in NVMe, PCIe, M.2 SSD Enclosure then try:

  • Clone directly to enclosure 
  • Boot from enclosure
  • Swap M.2 ( Internal / External )
  • Boot from internal ( new / target ) M.2

 

I have Samsung 1TB NVMe, PCIe, M.2 SSD inside each laptop...

Because

Before I would have to do following to clone the internal drive

  • put source ( internal )  drive in a usb enclosure
  • put target ( new ) drive inside laptop
  • clone from source in USB enclosure to target inside laptop
     
  • this was and still is a hassle because following on or in Dell XPS 15's was not designed to be unconnected and reconnected multiple times
     
    • rear cover : can easily strip torx screw heads and threads of holes ( 10 torx, 2 phillips )
    • battery connector
    • M.2 SSDs
Sun, 01/20/2019 - 18:25
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Forum Member
Posts: 6
Comments: 60

You're welcome for the info :).

Here's my Laptop Info:

TOSHIBA LAPTOP MODEL Satellite L655-S5168

Connections:

1 eSATA
2 USB 2.0
1 HDMI
1 VGA

HDD: Hitachi HTS545050B9A30  500 GB  5400 RPM

All of my HDD's are "spinner" (not SSD) HDD's.

I use a 2.5/3.5 HDD Docking Station: Thermaltake St0005u Esata/usb 2.0 Docking Sta.

My Laptop is an older model (2011) so accessing the HDD compartment is fast.  I turn over the Laptop & remove the HDD compartment with 2 phillips screws.

Here's how I Clone my Laptop:

I Clone the Laptop about every 6-8 weeks as it's not my daily PC.  It's a backup PC for my Desktop PC.

I use 2 Target HDD's on the shelf, rotating then when I Clone my PC's.  I like having 2 shelf spare Cloned HDD's as it has come in handy a few times over the years having 2 of them to test or recover from malware or a user error.

Prior to all Clonings (both PC's), I connect the Target HDD to my Docking Sta & run a 'clean' command using 'Diskpart'.  It takes about 10 seconds to run that command.

The reason I run the Clean command is it 'unallocates' the HDD before Cloning so it's always easy to select the 'Source' & 'Target' HDD's with any software as the Target HDD will be the one that shows no data present on it (after using the 'clean' command).

The other reason (posted in earlier post) is that the 'clean' command nulls out the Disk Signature value on the Target HDD preventing any Disk Sig Collision scenarios when Cloning HDD's.

Since most of my Target HDD's will display as near-identical data to the Source HDD (since the Target HDD usually was Cloned a few weeks earlier), that's the reason I clean the Target HDD before Cloning my PC's.

In the event of encountering a Disk Signature collision issue (which Windows protects the PC by keeping the Target HDD offline), I use the other PC to clean the affected HDD.

I put the Target HDD into the Docking Sta (via the eSATA connection from the Docking Sta).

I like the Docking Sta as it has an eSATA connection which speeds up the Cloning process time (vs the USB 2.0 connection).

I know that Acronis recommends Laptop Cloning with the Source externally connected with the Target installed in the Laptop.

I've successfully Cloned my Laptop using both HDD orientation methods.  I usually Clone with the Target HDD in my Docking Station since I only verify (boot up) on the Cloned Target HDD infrequently.  I do this after years & many Clones booting up successfully on 3 different PC's.  Due to the high success rate of Clonings (using either HDD orientation method), I now only boot up with the Target HDD about once every 8 Clones.

It's the same with my Desktop PC although I test (boot) onto the Target PC more frequently as that PC is my daily PC.

Software:

I use Acronis (2011) for my Cloning tool as it Clones faster than a couple other software tools I've tried (Macrium & Clonezilla).

I Image using Macrium as I liked (compared to Acronis 2011) Macrium's interface a little better than Acronis's although I'm running the 2011 version so I don't know how much Acronis has changed their Imaging interface methods.

I have Imaged (years ago) with my Acronis tool & it worked fine.  I just prefer Macrium's interface screens a little better so I use it for my Imaging processes.

Regarding booting from an Enclosure or Docking Sta: Windows doesn't allow booting into Windows from an externally connected HDD.

If you're using Cloning as a regular short-term backup recovery method, I'd do the following:

Start out by verifying (booting up onto the Cloned Target HDD) for the 1st few Clonings just for confidence in the Cloning method's reliability.  After that, you can consider testing the Cloned HDD's infrequently.  

When I first started Cloning my Laptop PC regularly, I did the same, testing frequently.  However, after years of Cloning 3 PC's & only encountering 2 errors, I only test infrequently now.

Coincidentally, I just swapped out my Desktop HDD due to a couple of 'SMART' HDD errors detected that rendered Cloning impossible.

I run a portable HDD tool ('CrystalDiskInfo') when I log into my PC's.  It's part of my 'login' script so I can't forget to run it :).

A few days ago when I logged into my Desktop PC, the SMART data showed 2 errors:

Current Pending Sector Count"
"Offline Uncorrectable"

I tried Cloning using Acronis & Macrium just to see if the software would allow me to Clone with these particular SMART errors present on the Source HDD.  The reason I tried this was that I've cloned XP PC's with success despite the SMART errors present on the Source HDD & I wanted to see if I could do that with Windows 7.

There was no risk issue as I had the 2nd spare Cloned HDD on the shelf in addition to a recent full-HDD Image stored on my "Image store" HDD.

With both tools, the Cloning process stopped shortly after starting & never started copying data from the Source HDD to the Target HDD.  My HDD "activity" LED's just blinked every couple of seconds.  There were no Cloning errors generated with either Acronis or Macrium.

I figured the reason was due to the Source SMART errors present so I used an Image to restore to another HDD.

I chose to restore from the recent Image.  All worked fine & now I'm running the Desktop PC on my old "Clone 1" spare HDD.

Regarding the overall Cloning vs Imaging discussions over the years on various forums, I see it as "Cloning And Imaging" rather than Cloning vs Imaging as I have used both methods over the years.  It's just my take on it :).  Both methods have pros & cons related to their backup usages. 

Mon, 01/21/2019 - 17:22
Abigo autem causa dolore scisco. Conventio defui dolor elit feugiat lucidus natu populus praemitto. Abbas ad facilisi. Defui ea gemino suscipere. Consectetuer eros interdico minim. Esse incassum plaga. Caecus decet dolore ille iriure neque. Gilvus letalis mauris paratus quis tego. Brevitas capto erat gemino loquor ratis tincidunt vulpes. Appellatio haero humo iustum luctus natu similis. Conventio decet eros humo praemitto ratis ullamcorper virtus. Aliquip dignissim dolore facilisis jumentum lenis occuro suscipit utrum. Esca gilvus haero ideo nutus persto quidne refoveo usitas. Adipiscing cui nisl odio paulatim quadrum qui venio virtus. Caecus letalis natu nunc pertineo praesent utinam. Caecus eligo jugis nimis tamen te. Ad diam dignissim gravis iusto magna praemitto. Augue gravis magna obruo plaga valde. Et humo molior saepius. Adipiscing aliquip lenis paulatim quadrum wisi. Duis in voco. Consectetuer gravis plaga populus quia. Commoveo consequat distineo exputo iustum nisl saepius. Appellatio genitus ille melior mos nisl odio torqueo velit vindico. Abico comis iustum minim nobis oppeto pecus vero. Abico ex exerci haero iusto quia sed typicus. Abigo camur lobortis pneum tincidunt turpis vel. Abbas acsi dignissim ea suscipere. Eros iustum lobortis nobis probo quadrum qui velit verto vulpes. Importunus iustum magna modo nimis nunc sit vel vulputate. Blandit commodo dolus facilisi pertineo voco vulpes. Iriure loquor venio. Cogo ea esse gravis huic imputo odio refero similis ut. Aliquam autem conventio ibidem paulatim quia sagaciter vereor wisi. Adipiscing enim esca et olim sino vulpes. At iusto scisco vulputate. Ad ex ille secundum utinam valde verto vulputate. Erat molior nibh turpis. Importunus pala utinam. Causa conventio nulla quidem secundum tation verto. Camur conventio eros importunus iustum. Consequat dolore immitto iriure luptatum nostrud ulciscor ut. Distineo enim iusto torqueo utinam. Brevitas natu pala vereor. Abigo decet ea proprius typicus uxor volutpat. Causa iusto quae sit suscipere torqueo ut vulputate. Magna occuro pneum. Abbas blandit dolus paulatim. Adipiscing caecus jugis nibh obruo premo. Augue causa eu laoreet lenis mauris premo suscipit vero. At damnum exputo ideo immitto pala vereor. Eum jugis utinam velit wisi. Augue cogo ratis suscipere vereor. Diam ille incassum persto saluto. Abluo blandit fere molior. Caecus erat magna mauris praemitto saluto vero. Qui singularis tincidunt valde. Minim qui similis ut. Ex exerci lenis nimis ratis sagaciter volutpat. Abigo aliquam lenis loquor nulla pala similis vel velit vero. Aliquip defui erat letalis paulatim utinam. At nutus occuro. Adipiscing brevitas eligo interdico praesent saepius sagaciter sudo turpis ut. Accumsan dolus eu pertineo refero verto. Imputo meus vereor wisi. Bene commodo diam illum laoreet paulatim populus uxor. Caecus commodo inhibeo jus nulla nunc ulciscor valetudo. Consectetuer defui iaceo iustum nibh te vel. Facilisis loquor ratis tum vicis. Capto luptatum pala sudo torqueo. Antehabeo caecus dolus ea gravis illum molior vulputate. Abdo adipiscing iaceo jugis pertineo te ullamcorper. Abico erat ideo os turpis. Dolore facilisis metuo nibh occuro pecus volutpat. Acsi antehabeo damnum defui ex lucidus nulla ymo. Fere pecus sudo. Camur dolore illum loquor qui quia. Brevitas camur dignissim dolor duis obruo plaga quae veniam volutpat. Dignissim loquor olim te vereor. At cui dolore erat eros jumentum ludus nibh vereor. At dolor eros huic suscipit te typicus voco. Appellatio autem defui in neque nisl proprius qui tation. Eros quae refero. Aptent bene dolor minim. Abdo cui importunus oppeto utrum. Commodo erat ludus olim vel. Commodo iustum laoreet nisl. Abico os tincidunt tum. Damnum enim fere sit suscipere tego turpis typicus usitas virtus.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

Scoop,

Once again, thanks for your time, effort and excellent detailed information.

Are you currently running Windows 7 on both Desktop & Laptop?

To remove disk signature can I use any of the following methods:

  • quick format ssd
  • regular format ssd
  • delete partition, recreate partition, quick or regular format drive

 

I'm running Windows 10 and I just checked diskpart is installed; however, if I can just format drive I'd prefer that over using diskpart.

 

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.17134.1

Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation.
On computer: SGWINX

DISKPART> ?

Microsoft DiskPart version 10.0.17134.1

ACTIVE            - Mark the selected partition as active.
ADD                 - Add a mirror to a simple volume.
ASSIGN           - Assign a drive letter or mount point to the selected volume.
ATTRIBUTES   - Manipulate volume or disk attributes.
ATTACH           - Attaches a virtual disk file.
AUTOMOUNT  - Enable and disable automatic mounting of basic volumes.
BREAK             - Break a mirror set.
CLEAN             - Clear the configuration information, or all information, off the
              disk.

 

Unfortunately, Dell XPS 15's were not meant to be opened on regular or even infrequent basis.   

There are 10 very tiny Torx screws on the rear cover and it's very easy to strip heads of screws and thread in laptop chassis holes where screws go...

There are two philip head screws on rear cover under a flip cover that also hold the cover on that has to be removed...

Connector that connects battery could be damaged if removed often

Memory ( NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD ) can be easily damaged from electrostatic discharge...
 

I have on site / in home service from Dell and every time Dell has ever had to replace a motherboard ( twice on two different laptops ) or replace screen because of bad pixels, the system did not come back up and I had to reimage ( restore image ) to source ssd...
 

And on multiple occassions, i had to go through multiple full images saved away from Acronis, Windows System Image Backup to find one that would work...
 

On one specific occassion, I had at least five different Acronis full image backups created by following methods and after performing restores, system never came up correctly:

  1. booting from USB media  - 2
  2. booting from USB media  - sector by sector - 2
  3. from within in Windows

Windows system image backups never worked, ever

The only thing that saved me was I created a bootable USB drive that had Ubuntu ( linux ) on it and used the command " dd " with bunch of options to create a full disk image...  and later used that same image to write back onto the internal disk...

Wish dell made a laptop similar to the XPS that had two internal drive ( NVMe PCIe M.2 ssd slots ).  That would make cloning and backing up very easy...

  • Could clone M.2 # 1  to M.2 #2 
  • Boot off off #2
  • Run on #2 for awhile until felt need to backup
  • Clone #2 to #1
  • Boot off #1 for awhile until felt need to backup
  • Repeat process

If had two slots, then would never have to open rear cover nor remove and reinsert parts...

 

Sometimes I feel like getting me a gaming rig because it's typically lot more easy to access hardware in gaming laptops and some specifically have easy access rear panels, remove one or two screws, then just slide panel in cover off and memory, drives, etc are exposed and have easy access...

 

Wed, 01/23/2019 - 01:29
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

Scoop,

I've reread your original post in response to my question concerning how could cloning "screw up" source drive...

I could be wrong, but I don't think cloning process touched or ruined your source drive.

I've also read up on disk signature and disk signature collisions, etc...
 

Correct me if I'm wrong,

For target drive you used a drive that had been previously cloned from the boot drive already in the system so the previously used drive had the same disk signature as the boot drive in the system; thus causing a disk signature collision.

Irony is system should of still booted and off lined the drive it was not booting from...

Or system should of booted if you disconnected one of the drives from the system.

You mentioned the system would not boot from either the source or target drive.

Did you try booting from either source or target with only one of the drives connected at time of booting?

 

Since that time, from Sept 2011 to date, I've encountered 2 incidences where Cloning rendered both the Source & Target HDD's unbootable.  After looking into the issue, I discovered the failure was due to Disk Signature collision, where the Source & The Target HDD had the same Disk Signature present on both HDD's.  The Disk Signature collision I'm referring to is not related to the conventional collision error when one boots into Windows with 2 identical HDD's connected to the PC.  That never occurs as I always Clone booted into the Linux CD.

Note: Neither Cloning failure generated any errors during the Cloning process & no power failure issues or any other interruptions occurred during the Cloning processes.

After some testing, I found out that the 2 Cloning failures (resulting in the Source & Target HDD's not booting into Windows after Cloning) occurred after I had used one of my spare HDD's to "test-Restore" one of my Acronis Images onto the spare HDD.

This in effect duplicated the Disk Signature onto the Restored HDD as the Image was an exact backup of the Source HDD, thus creating the duplicate DIsk Signature in the MBR of both HDD's.

I verified the failure mechanism by duplicating the conditions; I did another Image Restore later & saw the same Disk Signature value present on both HDD's.  Once again, both the Source & Target HDD didn't boot into Windows.

After verifying the reason for the Cloning failures, the fix was easy.  I began "cleaning" the Target HDD (using the Windows command line "Diskpart" 'clean' command) before every Clone, thus zeroing out the Disk Signature value.  Since that time, all Clonings have performed without issue.

 

https://www.maketecheasier.com/fix-disk-signature-collision-error-windo…

A disk collision occurs when your operating system (Windows) detects that there are two disks with identical signatures. Windows may not always prompt the user when a collision occurs.

In previous versions of Windows (like Windows Vista and XP), when a collision occurred the signature of the drive complaining of a collision would be changed automatically.

Windows cannot permit two disks with the same signature to coexist and function at the same time.

For Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10, it disables the second drive and does not allow it to mount until the disk collision has been rectified.

 

In your particular case above, you didn't care about the data on the target drive being cloned so diskpart / clean is appropriate.

In my case, I will be cloning internal drive to external drive in enclosure, then trying to boot off drive in the enclosure immediately afterwards...

The internal drive and external drives will have same signatures ( assuming all blocks / sectors ) in beginning of drive are copied...  I'll have to read up on whether or not Acronis clones disk signature in MBR ( Master Boot Record )...

I'll check my bios to see if I can disable my source drive from being used and select booting from USB only...  This should eliminate any disk signature collision issues...

 

Should I encounter disk signature collision issue ( drives don't boot ) I won't want to run diskpart / clean as that would wipe out MBR record  on selected drive, which contains partition information as well.

I'll just change the disk signature id

diskpart
list disk

check source disk signature
select disk ( source disk # )
uniqueid disk
 

check target disk signature & change it
select disk ( target disk # )
uniqueid disk

uniqueid disk id=#######   ( some number 8 alpha-numeric hex # )

Wed, 01/23/2019 - 02:48
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Forum Member
Posts: 6
Comments: 60

Hi,

No problem (info) :)

Here's some answers to your questions:

I'm running Windows 7 OEM Home Premium on both PC's.

I'm running 'MBR' HDD's and not 'GPT' HDD's.  

I use Diskpart to prep my Target HDD's for these reasons:

- It's a fast command that zeroes out the Disk Signature
- It marks all content for deletion (unallocates the HDD)
- Since I'm Cloning the Target HDD & that will replace all content (partitions, data, etc), I don't need to Format the HDD as 'Clean' does that fast as well as nulls the Disk Signature.
- I'm not certain Formatting ("quick" format, not the long version) zeroes out the Disk Signature.  I ran some tests years ago about that, comparing Formatting & Diskpart 'Clean', but I can't locate the info on my PC as yet.

I believe you can use "Disk Management" where Windows 10 automatically assigns a different Disk Signature from the "Offline" pulldown menu.  That option may exist with Windows 7 but I haven't checked it out yet.

Regarding your PC & its difficulty in accessing the HDD: If you're wanting to Clone routinely as a full-HDD backup activity, I'd suggest that you only swap (test the Target) infrequently.  That way, you're accessing your PC's HDD only occasionally.  If you're wanting to boot up (test) you Target HDD every time, I see that problem with your PC, torx screws, etc.

Regarding your original question about whether Cloning affects the Source HDD:

I confirmed 100% that this is true when there's a Disk Collision detected.  I verified this twice using Acronis & Macruim Cloning tools, Cloning outside of Windows (both booted up on their CD'S).

At no time was the Disk Sig collision related to Windows seeing 2 OS HDD's simultaneously.
I never boot my PC into Windows with an identical OS (Cloned Target) HDD connected to the PC.

The result of the Source (& Target) HDD's not bootable after Cloning with the Disk Signature issue was that the Master Boot Record was rendered unreadable by Windows.  When I tried to boot up the Source (& Target) HDD's individually after Cloning, Windows returned a Hex screen error. I don't recall the actual error but when I researched it, the error indicated a bad or unreadable Master Boot Record.

I ran (CMD) "Bootrec" and repaired both HDD's within a few minutes so the issue wasn't a "show stopper" for me :).

Regarding your history of Images not restoring successfully, I wish I could provide help for that.  I've never had the issues that you describe.  I'm not sure why, maybe I've been fortunate.

You've mentioned booting into Windows from an external (USB, Docking Sta, etc): It's my understanding that Windows won't boot from an externally-connected OS HDD.  Perhaps there's a way to do that but it's never worked for me.  If I recall, Windows was designed to prevent booting from an external Enclosure, etc due to "pirating" concerns, etc.

Regarding using Diskpart to assign a new Disk Signature value:  You can do that but Windows will assign a unique Disk Signature value when you Clone to the Target HDD.  Here's an example:

I Cloned my Source HDD a few days ago onto one of my spare Target HDD's.  Here are the Disk Signatures:

Source HDD (my current 'C' HDD - running in my Desktop PC now):

AD8D0F41

Target HDD:

46393139

 
I'm not sure, but I think we have different reasons for Cloning.  I Clone every 2-3 weeks to provide a backup HDD to my Source HDD.  The effect is the same as Imaging but Cloning provides a backup HDD ready to install fast on my PC's.

Since Cloning (full-HDD Cloning, not Cloning specific Partitions) erases/replaces all data on the Target HDD, I don't have concerns regarding using the 'Clean' command.  Its result is similar  to a 'Format' in that it erases or marks all content for deletion.

This link provides some useful information regarding Diskpart 'Clean' use as it relates to the Disk Signature Collision issue.

https://www.thewindowsclub.com/disk-signature-collision-problem

Thu, 01/24/2019 - 01:10
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truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Regular Poster
Posts: 1
Comments: 104

Scoop,

I'm reading and writing this response from.my cell phone...

That was simply an INCREDIBLE, AWESOME, AMAZING, EXCELLENT, EXTRAORDINARY, SUPERB & PHENOMENAL REVIEW...

TRULY APPRECIATE IT MORE THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY KNOW...

 

You pretty much addressed all my concerns...

 

I basically want to do as you're doing which I used to do all the time when I used to work with desktops / servers...

Clone regularly & often to target and because I had the hot swap drive bays i would simply swap the top two removable drive bays which was super easy ( unlock trays with key, swap them, lock trays, then boot again off target ) swapping took less than minute...

 

Newer non gaming laptops are super thin and typically do not provide second slot for another M.2 SSD NVMe PCIe...

 

In all your examples in the previous post, were they performed and done on desktop, workstation or server?

 

Out of curiosity are you in IT or some other support, administrator or architect role?

 

Thanks again...

 

Thanks a million...

Thu, 01/24/2019 - 18:59
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
Forum Member
Posts: 6
Comments: 60

You're very welcome for the info :).

Yes, those Desktop Tower Hot Swap Racks are golden :), one of the best accessories for the Desktop Tower Bays.

You make a good point about the comparisons between current "super slim" Laptops & the older or "gamer" Laptops.  That is one reason I haven't considered getting a new Laptop.  Ease of HDD access is paramount to me with Laptops although I know the age of "bulky" Laptops has long past.

Here's the breakdown on the Clones I've done over the past 7 years:

Desktop PC : 146
Laptop  PC :  83
XP PC        :  27

All Clones were done using either an Enclosure or a Docking Station.  No Workstations or Servers were used.

I'm not in IT or Admin work.

Fri, 01/25/2019 - 00:42
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