Exclusions (files and folders) suddenly no longer excluded
I have a feeling I must have walked under a ladder while simultaneously breaking a mirror, as, soon after a headache (previous thread here [https://forum.acronis.com/forum/121497] ) with ATI 2014 which rendered it inoperative altogether (now corrected) it has begun a new and extremely peculiar / problematic behavior.
I have four partitions on my laptop's HD, each of which I backup separately, using ATI 2014.
Since the glitch referenced above, everything has been running fine.
HOWEVER . . . the other morning I suddenly noticed the completed notification for the (incremental) the previous night had not come in until several hours after the job's start time. Normally, for incrementals, the job only runs ~less than an hour~ nightly. I then looked at the files on the SSD hosting the backup files, and see that the incremental file from last night is 40GB. The FULL file is only 80GB and normally the nightly backup incrementals are <1GB.
Upon further investigation, I find that the reason is the (quite long) list of excluded files and folders has suddenly started to be ignored. All of the "excluded" folders are there in the backup. If I explore the backup from before the appearance of this 40GB incremental . . . the folders and files ARE excluded.
These jobs were just running on autopilot, and I don't recall changing anything the day before it started misbehaving.
It is as if ATI 2014 suddenly decided not to exclude the excluded paths and files on its own whim!!!
So I cloned the job, and ran that. Same problem!! I then tried ending the path with \* . . . (versus just \ ) and same problem. Exclusions not being excluded.
I don't have sufficient SSD space to backup the excluded folders at the same time as allowing proper tib file deletion and management. So I am screwed by this. (And, no, I don't really want to DELETE the excluded files and folders, even though the reason they are excluded is because they have been backed up elsewhere also. I need them on the laptop for reference, even though i don't need them backed up by ATI.)
Can anyone shed any light on why ATI 2014 might suddenly cease to exclude the excluded files? And also, how I can fix this. Having uninstalled reinstalled several times for the other thread's problem I am not of a mind to want to go through all that again.
I am really getting frustrated with this product's seemingly random quirks and failures. It's anathema to providing a "good feeling" about your system backup being in "good hands."
One other piece of information that may be relative. On the task that originally WAS but suddenly started to NOT exclude the files and folders, I was unable to delete entries from the exclusion list. The little "x" that should appear . . . didn't. When I cloned that task to another (which still didn't exclude the files and folders) I was, there, able to delete exclusions OK.
Thank you very much for any help on this from anyone. I have spent a lot of wasted time & energy on these buggy behaviors in the past month.
Sincerely,
Mike
Ditto Steve. I am sorry too, for having to ask for assistance once again.
All was going well there for a split second . . .
I already posted the exclusions (at least most of them) screenshot in my original post here. You should note that originally (when it was working) the folders were terminated just with a backslash "\" and that worked. the reason they are terminated now with a \* is just a desperation measure to see if I could get it to work.
I am attaching the log file which clearly features the exclusions which did not get applied.
Mike, can you check whether the hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys files were included in your backup .tib files?
Steve,
I mounted the image and hiberfil.sys and pagefile.sys files were included in the backup (were NOT excluded as they should have been) .
See attachment.
thank you
Mike
Some further information, Steve and anyone.
I set up a new job, again imaging the "C" partition (the main bulk of the 4 partitions) and my plan was to exclude almost everything so that the job would run relatively quickly (if it was going to work).
I don't know if it is significant, but the size of the tib file (I kept monitoring it using the Properties context as the job progressed) seemed to reflect the exclusions, and the job seemed to progress much faster than if the entire C was going to be processed (the progress bar) but then it seemed to bog down, and eventually it busted on space. This may just be the bug causing a further bug in a misleading progress bar. In fact, I think that is almost certainly the case. The progress bar seems to consider the exclusions, but the actual backup does not.
Since I busted on space and had well enough on hand to accommodate the data I specified after exclusions, this has not caused any improvement.
Mike, I cannot give you an explanation for why this further problem has arisen and your exclusions are now being ignored. A search in the forum shows that it has happened for other users and other versions but with no obvious solution being offered as to why!
I would suggest trying the following as a test.
Create a completely new backup task, using a different name to any existing task, and to be stored in a different folder than any others. Set up exclusions for this new task using the default naming convention as used by ATIH without adding any extra characters such as \*
Run this new task and check whether the exclusions are applied correctly.
If they are, then you will need to repeat this process to recreate your existing backup tasks.
If the problem still exists, then I am out of new ideas and we come full circle to talking about doing clean installs etc, where we got to with your previous problem!
OK Steve I will keep you posted. My worry (obvious worry) about a clean install is that then the OTHER problem may come back.
Thank you for your thoughts. I too have seen others report this, and noted the same lack of "definitive" solution or even any real admission that it's a bug. I don't know if I told you, but I am a programmer of 38 years m'self, but what I see more and more in software these days is an unwillingness to embrace that the product has a bug. I know it's complex, but just the fact that there is no internal double-check/audit that exclusions are actually excluded (during the validation phase) is really poor.
I may have to try another product, but in so saying you have been super helpful but I don't get the impression the actual product developers/managers care all that much about these problems (particularly these "peculiar" --- I won't use the word "funny" because it's not --- ones) that have plagued us and cost the customers and volunteers like yourself 100s 1000s of hours trying to figure it out for ourselves. I don't even want to try the uninstall clean tool because I saw another UNRESOLVED thread about that leaving files and registry entries it shouldn't.
I do appreciate it. If I find the energy to try anything else, I will update the results. Best regards.
Mike
Mike, I fully understand where you stand in these matters. My own background was 31 years working in Technical Support for IBM - the majority in Software Support for midrange systems until I took early retirement on July 4th some years back!
Unfortunately no software is perfect - I wouldn't have had a job if it were different! Imperfect people create imperfect software even with the best desire in the world. The other side to this, as I am sure you know well, is that everyone wants these products as cheaply as possible and the budgets for development and testing get strained to the limits.
Back to this issue, the Acronis Cleanup Tool was updated recently to include changes to address Windows 10 and ATIH 2016 and I have recommended this to many users without getting any feedback that it caused other problems. The link to the latest version is in my signature below, and it covers all the versions from 2010 to 2016 - see screen shot taken from this on my own system.
None of my software was perfect, Steve. but if a user found a bug, I was all over it like white on rice. I don't understand today's philosophy (I would extend this to the Windows OS itself) of "just living with known bugs."
Love your IBM background. I am an old 8100 programmer myself (1983-4-5) and mainframer.
Do you know if the cleanup tool has addressed the issues mentioned of two registry keys and certain "in use" files not cleaned up properly?
I don't know if you are a Fawlty Towers fan, but the Major had a point when he said "If it's causing you pain you have it out." I've liked this product WHEN it worked. And it has recovered an actual system for me in an emergency. But it has tried my patience. I might invest in ATI 2016 had I not seen that my original problem persisted with it. I strongly suspect that if I were to install ATI 2016 my lack of exclusions would persist as well. It might boil down to the fact (sort of like Windows as well) that a TOTALLY clean (never before) installed environment is one thing, but "anything else" is a minefield.
I've enjoyed our back and forths. And I may have another go. But if a trial of something else impresses me I might have to be off the Acronis roster.
Best,
Mike
Just wanted to close this out with a brief update.
Unwilling to go through yet more "clean" uninstall/reinstall (and lacking the ability to revert to a pre Acronis machine state) I am trying a different product.
If it pans out I think I am "moving on" . . . but with regret, for "when it works" this was an OK product, and there sure have been worse ones to cross my radar (!!!) But when it would not start up at all (for still inexplicable reasons) it spooked me, and these previously-excluded exclusions not being excluded now has put me over the edge.
Ironically, the product I am trying does not feature exclusions at all for system images. One can see why, really: one mischosen exclusion could render the entire backup useless for recovery purposes. But it does feature what seems a better space-management solution. It also runs about 2x faster (3 hours to image and validate the C drive, versus 7), which is important.
Many thanks Steve for all your time and assistance. I just ran out of the will to battle this one anymore. I also wanted your actual sales guys to know these bugs really are revenue killers, since we end consumers really don't have endless time to hack around trying to work around them ourselves (even with the gratefully-received assistance ultimately it is we who have to provide the effort for resolution at the same time as having our backup/recovery strategy temporarily in bits).
Best,
Mike
I also wanted your actual sales guys to know these bugs really are revenue killers, since we end consumers really don't have endless time to hack around trying to work around them ourselves (even with the gratefully-received assistance ultimately it is we who have to provide the effort for resolution at the same time as having our backup/recovery strategy temporarily in bits).
Mike, thanks for your kind words and good luck with the alternative solution.
With regards to the quote above, please either use the Feedback tool in the ATIH GUI (if you still have it installed) or send feedback via the Acronis web feedback page or third option, drop a PM to Gaidar, General Manager Acronis True Image. The reason for this is that I am just another user, like yourself, and I doubt that an Acronis Sales people ever lurk in these forums to read these user comments. Post a reference to this forum thread plus your earlier one.
p.s. I remember the 8100's well, repaired quite a few 8130's & 8140's during my time as a HWCE before moving into Software.
I also wanted your actual sales guys to know these bugs really are revenue killers, since we end consumers really don't have endless time to hack around trying to work around them ourselves (even with the gratefully-received assistance ultimately it is we who have to provide the effort for resolution at the same time as having our backup/recovery strategy temporarily in bits).
Mike, thanks for your kind words and good luck with the alternative solution.
With regards to the quote above, please either use the Feedback tool in the ATIH GUI (if you still have it installed) or send feedback via the Acronis web feedback page or third option, drop a PM to Gaidar, General Manager Acronis True Image. The reason for this is that I am just another user, like yourself, and I doubt that an Acronis Sales people ever lurk in these forums to read these user comments. Post a reference to this forum thread plus your earlier one.
p.s. I remember the 8100's well, repaired quite a few 8130's & 8140's during my time as a HWCE before moving into Software.
"I doubt that an Acronis Sales people ever lurk in these forums to read these user comments"
That (extended to developers??) is a shoddy fact in and of itself. And that what it feels like, as the end user, quite honestly.
The 8100 was a lovely machine to code on. Slightly different in having purpose-built "known quantity" hardware to run your OS on, but I reckon there's a reason back-ends still feature legacy mainframe code & kit and IMS and what-have-you. I'm a private pilot, and in aviation parlance, I always feel, with Windows, I am flying an off-brand Soviet airliner, not (as with IBM mainframe etc.) Boeing metal.
And it's possible that Windows bugginess is partly to blame for these types of errors. "Point the finger at the other guy." But there never seems to be that desire to hone the products or OSs towards the impossibility of zero bugs. But just because the goal is impossible, doesn't mean you can't get 90% the way and, instead, make no effort at perfection.
All best wishes,
Mike
Steve,
I'm reposting your suggestion from another thread because I think that is probably the core reason of all "file exclusion not working" problems. I had the same issue - the exclusions suddenly stopped working and there was nothing in log files or anywhere else to indicate what was wrong. Your CHKDSK suggestion was brilliant! This is a copy of my reply in the following thread:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/acronis-true-image-2016-forum/true-imag…
CHKDSK C: /F /R
Thank you for the disk check suggestion! It worked for me, too.
Probably all problems reported in this thread were caused by hidden disk errors. It is very WRONG that Acronis silently discovers disk problems and decides to do a sector by sector backup without notifying the user! I spend countless hours fighting this problem. I tried with ATIB 2014 (the version I still use) and 2018 - the result was the same. The GUI Windows disk checkup tool was not finding any errors but when I ran the command prompt command - sure enough there were problems. It took 5-6 hours for CHKDSK to fix the issues at boot time but now everything works fine.
Thanks again!
Val