Pre-purchase technical questions
I have just spent a lot of time trying to start a chat window to ask some questions. I can get the chat window to pop up, and it starts to load but just sits there forever and nothing comes up. I have the latest Flash player installed.....so that's not a good start as I would like to know I can access live chat if I purchase the product.
But here is my main question:
Since I have never used system image backup and restore software before (only regular backup software for data) please bear with me.
I basically just want to know what I have to do after installing the program to make it recognise my backup device (most likely a USB external drive) and all steps required to have a successful recovery under “recovery console” ie DOS-like environment where I cannot boot into windows at all, and therefore can’t access the ATI recovery program from within Windows.
I understand that I require 3 things basically to perform a full system recovery from an unbootable computer. (a) a bootable medium eg CD, USB external HD, etc, (b) access to ATI 2013 recovery software (c) the system backup itself. I am clear as to how to go about (a) and (c). I’m unclear about (b). When you first install the program and select “create bootable disk” does this put the restore part of the ATI program on the CD with the “bootable” part or do you have to do something else??? I’m confused because in the user guide there is reference on page 101 section 4.10 to making Acronis Recovery Manager – is that a necessary step or is that for a specialised scenario?
Also, it states to use ARM you must first install ATI 2013 and then “Activate” the ARM – does this mean to activate it at that time of installation or is it referring to activating it by pressing F11 at start up when attempting a recovery and/or is it necessary to activate it at installation time in order to be able to start it by pressing F11 at a later date? Please note I am not talking about activating the licence of the ATI software itself, but “deploying” ARM.
I saw that there is an option to create a bootable disk that also has the backup itself on it, but this is only for CD/DVD and USB flash stick media - In other words a true "one step" backup from inserting the media & booting up the computer to recovering everything from the same location. However this is not possible with an External HDD drive.
Can someone please clarify this process please because obviously without having access to the ATI recovery software interface nothing much is going to get restored.
OK so that is what I thought...I install the program, " create bootable media" to a CD or USB stick, and then all I have to do for a system recovery on a non-bootable computer is
(1) attach my external USB drive with backup attached
(2) insert recovery /rescue CD or USB stick
(3) start computer (with BIOS in correct order)
and
(4) Follow prompts to back up when the Acronis recovery screen starts...correct?
oh and
(5) keep fingers crossed.
Yes I understand I would test this out first in the recovery environment to check that everything was "visible" before waiting for disaster to strike.
Now for my next question..
Using ATI, (or any software ), to restore Win 7 requires to recover 2 system partitions – some “hidden” system partition I think to do with the MBR as well as the main system partition which has the OS and everything else on it. I see during recovery you tick both boxes to restore…but when you do the backup do you have to find and check these 2 boxes or is it just one click which backs up everything required? Also, I presume that if I am putting a full system image back onto my computer that it includes the Win 7 System Recovery Console assuming it was already there? Or will it be wiped over because it is in a hidden partition? Does this relate to the 2 boxes to be ticked?
PS Meant to say thanks very much for your reply! :)
Change the task view in 2013 to disk view, tick the disk, this will image the complete disk including any hidden partitions and the MBR.
When you attempt to recover a complete disk image you will get the option to either recover the complete disk or you can recover each partition indivually. Most times you will just use the complete disk recovery option. The indivdual partitions for a drive containing the OS is only used if you are having restore problems or need to resize a drive as in restoring from a spin disk to an SSD and want to ensure the SSD is set up correctly.
OK, but what happens to the Win 7 recovery console that is there by default in Win 7? Does it get wiped from all this or does it go back on as well? I realise that it may be redundant with the ATI software but it still might have uses????
Also what happens if I am in the ATI “recovery console” and it doesn’t recognise my USB external hard drive in that mode (assuming of course it was recognised to do the backup under the Windows environment in the first place?) Or if it is recognised in windows will it mean that it is recognised in the recovery mode? If not, does it have a facility from the recovery mode to install the drivers & how would I do this, or should I have already done something to a setting in the backup step after testing out the recovery mode and finding that it wasn't recognised?
Is this where you need to install some other recovery console eg Bart PE, Win PE from which drivers can be loaded? Slightly different, but In User Guide on p79 4.1.2.(b) it states that in recovery mode, it may say that the backup is corrupted even though it has been previously successfully validated in Windows…because the drivers in the Recovery console are different to Windows drivers…and in this case the recovery cannot proceed. What use is that? How would you then recover? Is this where a Win PE recovery console is needed? I really don't understand when the Win PE and BartPE recovery options are used ( and yes I know you have to download and install these yourself separately).
Also, if you do need to use these options, do you boot with this other option first and make your amendments and then swap over to the ATI recovery CD? Sorry I am probably not making any sense but I have no experience with this....and I want to know how to set it up right from the start.
Thanks again!
If you select to integrate 2013 this will take over from the Windows Backup program, if you don't, then you are left with being able to use W7 Backup and True Image.
The W7 Backup program itself is not removed in either case, just being able to start it. You can de-integrate TI 2013 if you wish, however this makes no difference when running the recovery environment.
The steps to take with the recovery environment are.
1. Make a standard True Image recovery CD.
2. Boot from it and ensure it can see everything. If that fails, depending on what it is failing at and why, will depend on your next move.
If it is something minor, then the parameters option when making the CD can be tried, there is a list of them in the user guide.
If changing the parameters for the Linux kernel don't work or because drivers needed for your system to work are not provided by Acronis, that is when you would need to look at making a WinPe based recovery environment.
For this to happen you would need to purchase the Plus Pack, this will also give you access to universal restore that allows you to add drivers to the recovery process if for example you were recovering to a new motherboard or a different RAID setup.
The BartPe is for XP users and performs a similar service as WinPe. WinPe though can be used for Vista,W7 and W8 OS'.
Thanks for your extreme patience with me! As you can see I am new to this. I presume the option to integrate is somewhere in the main menu? Sounds like it might be better just to leave that alone as it leaves options open.
I presume that you can buy the plus pack as an add-on after if the base pack doesn't work? I can see I will have to do a trial install to see if this works but I don't think I have an external drive large enough to try as yet, perhaps I do which brings me to the next question:
If my new HD is 500Gb but I only have say 100 Gb used space on it (including the OS and I may be naive here because I don't even know how much space Win 7 takes up, but currently I only have an 80Gb disk with XP and all my apps etc) - am I able to back that up to a 150Gb external drive or does it have to be the same size or larger than the original HD? I know that ATI can back up just the used space and ignore the free space, but do you see any problem with this? This would just be for the purpose of trialling out the software but it doesn't help me see how it works with Win 7 or my potential new hardware.....is there a list of compatible USB external drives anywhere or is it just a matter of try and see? It would be a shame to fork out on a new 2Tb external drive only to find it wasnt compatible. Better to pick a compatible one from the start if there is such a list.
Also if I get the plus pack how do you use it? meaning how do you use the WIN PE and Hardware interface to install other drivers? Do you create a different rescue disc with that?
Sorry I have read through the user guide but although it is excellent I still find it hard to understand without having used these sorts of programs before.
I'll add a few extra questions here as I may be offline next time you answer:
Can I copy backups from my external HD to a network location for extra security and if I needed to put it back from the network to the External USB (because for example some nong decided to take my external HD and wipe it to put their own backup on it). Or are there some sort of “hidden” files put directly onto the backup source that would be fouled up if I copied the visible files back and forth? Can I put backups from 2 different computers onto the same external drive assuming there is space or is this not recommended?
In Try & decide, it’s really like a virtual machine – so if you can try out programs within it, it must be running an operating system…do you have to install this operating system first yourself in order to utilise it or does it “just work”? So how do you manage to run a virtual Win 7 operating system without having to go through a second license activation with the virtual operating system and MS? If I install a program from my CD drive, and I have Try & decide running, how do I know if I am installing it into the “try and decide” or the actual OS?
If I have activated all programs and installed ATI 2013 and activated it , then when I restore will they all still be activated or do I have to go through activation again …especially for the Windows operating system because if it’s an OEM licence that makes it a bit of a nuisance (I know it's about ringing MS but who wants to do that?).
Presume that I can concurrently run full/incremental system disk back ups alongside a data file and folder backup ..eg run system image backup to an external drive and simultaneously run data file backups to a network drive? Data backup would be needed for a future restore to be done on a different hardware machine and/or operating system. I realise there is an optional pack for Universal restore, but this won’t work if the new hardware also has a new OS on it – so it would be better to also save data separately for this eventuality
OK, nearly teatime if I'm in the same country as you :)
A disk or partition image only images used sectors and by default compresses them, so yes a smaller drive can contain an image of a larger drive. As an example my Windows 7 drive is 64GB in size of which 57GB is used, the full disk image file is 22GB. You might run short of space if you intend to make incremental or differential images in addition to the main full, but in your example drive size, unless you defrag your drive or install and uninstall many programs on a daily basis, you would probably have enough space for a little while.
The Plus Pack is just that an add on, so see if the standard True Image recovery environment works first, th ePP can be purchased at a later date if you need the additional flexibility. It just install and add itself to the main program, all that you need to do is to make a new recovery CD so that the universal restore option is available to you, everything else such as dynamic disks or Windows PE is transparent.
Note that to use Windows PE there is an additional free download that has to be made from Microsoft, and the PE files are just under 1GB.
You can copy files to another place, what you shouldn't do though is move the images or archives from one disk to another using Windows Explorer, this will cause the TI database to get all upset, you can move them from within True Image. Becareful though if you do copy files, as, as soon as True Image discovers the duplicate location it will list them as available for restoration. You can disable the 'browse for backups ' option.
Try and Decide needs Windows installed.
Virtual Windows systems, if you have Windows 7 Ultimate or Enterprise you can add them to your boot menu and boot from them, if you have Pro or Home you have have Virtual PC or VMware or VirtualBox installed to run the VHD files.
Windows 8 can boot from VHD files.
True Image can convert your tib file to VHD. It does though mean you have two files, the original tib and the VHD. The VHD version is larger than the tib file.
Restoring a Windows environment: Most programs will be happy and run, sometimes Windows will want to be reactivated (definitely if a new motherboard is being used as Microsoft count that as a new PC and technically require you to purchase your Windows again). Other programs will be a mixed bag, it depends if they use parts of your PC to validate your licence. Most time if you are restoring to the same PC, with no hardware change at all, there is no problem, some software uses the drive ID and serial number to validate an install, so if you change a disk drive, that software will ask to be reactivated.
OK, nearly teatime if I'm in the same country as you :)
C'mon mate! You're Colin and I'm ozeannie, Whadya think? LOL
A disk or partition image only images used sectors and by default compresses them, so yes a smaller drive can contain an image of a larger drive. As an example my Windows 7 drive is 64GB in size of which 57GB is used, the full disk image file is 22GB. You might run short of space if you intend to make incremental or differential images in addition to the main full, but in your example drive size, unless you defrag your drive or install and uninstall many programs on a daily basis, you would probably have enough space for a little while.
OK that brings up a really interesting and important point, because I like to defrag quite regularly, but I can see now that every time I do that I am either going to have a large incremental or need to do a new main backup....hmmm...which also leads me to ask, if I schedule to do incremental backups say once a week or daily, can I also "push' it to do a manual incremental backup at will (ie equivalent of making a manual create restore point in windows). If I was going to do a lot of changes on a given day I might want to create an extra backup first....and if there is no menu-specific way of doing this, I presume I could just delete all the incrementals from my last main (full) backup and re-start the incremental schedule?
The Plus Pack is just that an add on, so see if the standard True Image recovery environment works first, th ePP can be purchased at a later date if you need the additional flexibility. It just install and add itself to the main program, all that you need to do is to make a new recovery CD so that the universal restore option is available to you, everything else such as dynamic disks or Windows PE is transparent.
And I presume if I don't get it then decide I need it due to a hardware failure, is it too late to buy it after the failure? Ie Do you need to install it before the backup stage or does it only come into play during the recovery phase? I suppose it would have to be the latter really because if you were getting a new machine you would need to install the rescue disk program on there as it wouldn't be much good having it on the failed machine :) But then, once you started up the rescue disk, the tools needed would be there, but it wouldn't know about the backup you had made and what your disk drives were called? so maybe you would need to create a rescue disk with the new software before the crash?
Note that to use Windows PE there is an additional free download that has to be made from Microsoft, and the PE files are just under 1GB.
Yep I knew that, I think somewhere I saw someone had created an ISO image of the WAIK download or something so it didn't have to be done as a gigantic download....can't check the link ATM as I'm on a different computer.
You can copy files to another place, what you shouldn't do though is move the images or archives from one disk to another using Windows Explorer, this will cause the TI database to get all upset, you can move them from within True Image. Becareful though if you do copy files, as, as soon as True Image discovers the duplicate location it will list them as available for restoration. You can disable the 'browse for backups ' option.
This sounds best avoided then but I'll check it out when i get the program
Try and Decide needs Windows installed.
So you're saying the user has to install this from within try & decide? or you mean that it needs it but uses the existing copy to run somehow?
Virtual Windows systems, if you have Windows 7 Ultimate or Enterprise you can add them to your boot menu and boot from them, if you have Pro or Home you have have Virtual PC or VMware or VirtualBox installed to run the VHD files.
Windows 8 can boot from VHD files.
Not sure what the above was answering - sounds as though you are explaining how to boot into VM's other than Try & Decide - I thought the idea was that T & D was launched from within the ATI menu - well what does it do if there is no OS installed on it....I thought it would open a window within my main operating window (somewhat akin to VNC) - and depending upon which window I clicked in, either the main OS or the try & decide would be active? I've never used any VM before and only just started learning about them this week so I don't understand how they operate...but it sounds like one of the real plus features for me to use with this program as I would like to be able to try out things that explode but not on my computer ;)
True Image can convert your tib file to VHD. It does though mean you have two files, the original tib and the VHD. The VHD version is larger than the tib file.
Now you're losing me...why would you do this? is this so you could restore a disk image as a virtual machine?
Restoring a Windows environment: Most programs will be happy and run, sometimes Windows will want to be reactivated (definitely if a new motherboard is being used as Microsoft count that as a new PC and technically require you to purchase your Windows again). Other programs will be a mixed bag, it depends if they use parts of your PC to validate your licence. Most time if you are restoring to the same PC, with no hardware change at all, there is no problem, some software uses the drive ID and serial number to validate an install, so if you change a disk drive, that software will ask to be reactivated.
fair enough
All tasks can be run manually once made. Don't delete incrementals outside of True Image itself, you will end up with problems. There are other ways to solve this problem, which you will see when you read up on schedule making :)
The Plus Pack relates to the recovery environment (context - this conversation, the Windows version enables Dynamic Disks as well as the PE feature), that is why you would need to make a new recovery CD if you added the Plus Pack at a later stage, the recovery environment with Plus Pack enabled would also be available for you to download from your Acronis account, so long as you have registered your purchases to your account. The Plus Pack enabled CD couldn't care less whether it was present when the actual image was made
Try and Decide runs from within Windows, it can not run with out a booted OS. It is literally meant as its name suggests to try out software to see if there is a clash with installed software or to see if you like the software. It makes a copy of your current OS, it is a fake VM, not like a real VM at all.
I thought you had asked me about booting Windows images as VM's, hence the long reply about VHDs.
Yes, so that you could restore the image as a VM under Windows. As an example all my Windows 8, and Server 2012 OS' are run as bootable VHDs on my laptop, but I could if I wished convert them back to a tib file and restore them as bare metal OS on my laptop if I wished.
ozeannie,
MVP Colin has provided some very excellent help. For additional background information, I believe you would find my signature links 2 and 3 below helpful.
Within the #3 link, the items 1, 2 and 3 should be of interest.
@ Colin B:
Colin B wrote:The Plus Pack relates to the recovery environment (context - this conversation, the Windows version enables Dynamic Disks as well as the PE feature), that is why you would need to make a new recovery CD if you added the Plus Pack at a later stage, the recovery environment with Plus Pack enabled would also be available for you to download from your Acronis account, so long as you have registered your purchases to your account. The Plus Pack enabled CD couldn't care less whether it was present when the actual image was made
I think I understand what you are saying but I'm not 100% sure so I will ask another way:
(1) If I haven’t previously purchased the Plus pack and have hardware failure on computer A, and buy a new “bare metal” computer of different hardware configuration B, can I purchase the Plus pack, install ATI + Plus pack on another working computer C, to create the rescue disk with Plus Pack included, then use that new rescue disk on the new computer B with my pre-existing backup created from A to recover?
(2) If I can technically do this, am I able to “transfer” the licence I had from the failed computer A temporarily to a working computer C to install ATI with Plus pack & make the new recovery disk, and then when the backup is restored to the new computer B (which will of course contain only the old ATI base pack from A ) – just use the existing licence from A on the new computer and de-activate the temporary licence on the “working” computer C? Does the plus pack have a separate licence or activation required? How would this work? If I then had new computer B up & running with the base pack, obviously then the plus pack would need to be installed on it…just not sure what licensing issues there are in these scenarios, and need to know before purchase.
Colin B wrote:Try and Decide runs from within Windows, it can not run with out a booted OS. It is literally meant as its name suggests to try out software to see if there is a clash with installed software or to see if you like the software. It makes a copy of your current OS, it is a fake VM, not like a real VM at all.
So the short answer is no, I don't need to install another OS, Try & Decide will just operate with my one and only Win 7 installation from the real disk? Does this mean that you can't install another OS within Try & Decide (eg you can install an application to see if it works), but can you say install Win XP as an application to try within Try & Decide or because it is a fake VM is it too scaled down to attempt that, and you would need a real VM to do that? If you could install XP in T & D, could you then try installing applications into that Win XP OS? You can probably see where I'm headed with this. I had considered getting a Win 7 machine with a VM installed operating XP so I could run older programs but I get the feeling that T & D is strictly for just trying out smaller apps, websites, links etc using your existing configuration for the purposes of deciding if it's safe for your existing system....correct?
@GroverH:
Thank you so much for those links. They were indeed very helpful and very well put together!
Just some questions: If all I want to do is a simple replacement of my existing disk back to where it came from, I see that you did recommend Add disk but if I only have one disk and no risk of getting the wrong one selected it should be just as easy to simply rewrite straight over the existing disk data and all?
In the options where you select to restore files with existing security settings you recommended to leave blank. I presume this is the settings on individual files or folders - I would have thought it would be better to preserve these so that if a certain file had access rights to certain people that stayed as is.....if you leave it blank what does it default to? Is it Administrator only has access to everything or is it "Everybody" has access"? Or are these some other security settings? On a related topic, I presume that in doing a full system disk recovery that all user accounts for Log on to Windows etc are the same and remain - as they are part of Windows - I'm talking here of a simple family set up where 2 people might have an account on one computer, not a business with servers and domain log ons etc.
Further question on your 3 recovery options to different size disks, disk option restore and restore C only.
In talking about restoring to different size disks, you are talking about if the original disk backed up was say 150Gb but the new disk being restored to is say 300Gb….
In other words the disk backed up as source and the disk restored to should be the same to use the simple disk option…
But if I am backing up 100Gb of used space on a 500Gb disk to an external disk of a different size (say 1Tb) …that is different, right? I can just use disk option, as long as I am putting it back on the original 500Gb internal disk.
I have one further question which anybody can answer -
I am going to have to go out and buy one or 2 new external hard drives. I just want to make sure they will be compatible with everything as it's too late to take them back once I have used them.
Is there a limit to the capacity of an external drive that can be used in the Acronis recovery mode? I know there will be a limit to the size of drive seen by Win 7 (don't know what it is but I guess I can find out, but I imagine it will handle anything I get), there is also whether the Windows-based part of Acronis can recognise up to a certain size, and then most important of all when in the Recovery environment what is the maximum size that can be recognised? Is there some limitation on the Acronis Recovery program to see a certain size or is this determined solely by the BIOS and what capability this has?
Any size limitations you might encounter would be the result of a hardware limitation... not something associated with the software running in windows or the recovery environment after starting the system for a boot CD/DVD.
@ Shadowsports:
OK so by hardware you mean Motherboard and BIOS? (I know strictly speaking BIOS is not hardware but it goes hand in hand with the motherboard to make it understand the hardware on it....)
There can be drive recognition issues with drives of sizes larger than 2TB. If I were to buy a 3TB, I would split it into two 1.5's; or a 2TB with a 1 TB and create the partitions as MBR type partitions. No specific issues with 2TB size disks.
Just some questions: If all I want to do is a simple replacement of my existing disk back to where it came from, I see that you did recommend Add disk but if I only have one disk and no risk of getting the wrong one selected it should be just as easy to simply rewrite straight over the existing disk data and all?
True. If the backup restore is overtop your existing disk, the "add disk" is usually not necessary. The purpose of the ADD Disk option is get it recognized and ready for new configurations.
In the options where you select to restore files with existing security settings you recommended to leave blank. I presume this is the settings on individual files or folders - I would have thought it would be better to preserve these so that if a certain file had access rights to certain people that stayed as is.....if you leave it blank what does it default to? Is it Administrator only has access to everything or is it "Everybody" has access"? Or are these some other security settings? On a related topic, I presume that in doing a full system disk recovery that all user accounts for Log on to Windows etc are the same and remain - as they are part of Windows - I'm talking here of a simple family set up where 2 people might have an account on one computer, not a business with servers and domain log ons etc.
Not sure where you are referencing. My guides do not get into security issues.
Further question on your 3 recovery options to different size disks, disk option restore and restore C only.In talking about restoring to different size disks, you are talking about if the original disk backed up was say 150Gb but the new disk being restored to is say 300Gb….
In other words the disk backed up as source and the disk restored to should be the same to use the simple disk option…
But if I am backing up 100Gb of used space on a 500Gb disk to an external disk of a different size (say 1Tb) …that is different, right? I can just use disk option, as long as I am putting it back on the original 500Gb internal disk.
These guides illustrate one method of recovery and not meant to imply these are the only successful procedures. The guides main purpose is to provide illustrations for a better understanding of procedures to be used. Much can depend upon the version of Windows being used as well as the space issues.[
1. Grover's How to-- TIH2012-2013 Restore to larger or smaller disk
If your goal is to create a replacement hard drive (larger, smaller or SSD), this new PDF guide could assist.
The intent of this guide is to illustrate how to restore a disk image backup by restoring each partition as a single restore-but repeated multiple times until all partitions has been restored. The settings about partition 1 does include example of how to set the 1 mb “free space before” which is needed as a partition 1 starting offset for SSD’s and some Windows 7 or Vista partition 1 configurations.
2. Grover's How to-- TIH2012-2013 Disk option restore PDFThe purpose of a “Disk option” restore is to restore your backup to a target disk the same size as your original disk. While the normal Disk Option restore can be restored to both larger and smaller disks, its procedures offers the user absolutely no control over the partitions sizes nor which partitions will be resized. Therefore, my guide only covers using the “Disk Option” restore when the replacement disk is identical in size to the original. Download the PDF file for more detailed information and illustrated examples. Use the guide in item 1 if moving to an SSD or a larger or smaller disk.
3. Grover's How to-- TIH2012-2013 Restore Drive C only PDF
This new guide illustrates how to restore a TrueImage Home backup of the Windows Drive C system partition overtop an existing Windows Drive C partition. This type restore is normally used to refresh an existing installation with a recent backup of the same partition. The guide can also be used as an example on how to restore a backup of a single partition overtop an existing matching partition. Download the PDF file for more detailed information and illustrated examples.
Thanks GroverH!
@ GroverH:
Not sure where you are referencing. My guides do not get into security issues.
.Grover's How to-- TIH2012-2013 Disk option restore PDF
Figure 9
Re post #12.
1. Yes, I thought that is what I had said - obviously not :)
2. As far as the recovery CD is concerned , just insert it in either PC and it will work. As far as the Windows based version is concerned, you can transfer the licence to the other PC, and when you have finished it will need to be transferred back. True Image will need to be removed from the Pc you are temporarily not using.
3. Try and Decide is for programs not OS', so no you can't install an OS temporarily which is why I referred to T&D as a 'fake' VM. As you are running windows 7, you can download the Windows 7 MS XP Virtual PC which would allow you to run a VM with a pre activated XP. If you already have a copy of XP either physically or on an installation CD, with MS Virtual PC downloaded and installed, you can either install XP into it or image your XP machine with TI 2013, convert to VHD and then attach it to MS Virtual PC, it would need to be repaired so that it would boot in the VM the same way as you would repair a physical XP machine.
OK, Thanks, thanks & thanks. I thought I understood you but was just clarifying in case I had somehow misunderstood, it's hard sometimes for me to explain what I am asking so sometimes although the answer I get seems straightforward, I'm not sure if you're answering my question or the one you *thought* I was asking....LOL ....and after that dreadful effort I am going to leave you in peace and have a cup of tea :)
One more quick question - I presume there is no drama if you have 2 identical external drives and rotate them weekly for backups so one is always NOT on the computer - obviously you would keep a full back up and chain altogether on each drive and not swap mid-chain as I understand how incrementals work....but as long as you used the same folder directory on each to store, you could use the one back up task and just run to either one on alternate weeks? eg 2 complete back up + incremental chain sets per drive?
If you use two drives, you will need to set up a task for each drive. this is because the drive ID is part of the task script.
The tasks are easy to set up you just have one starting in Week 1 and the other starts in Week 2.
I'll need to check, but i think you might need to make the second task after the first one has actually made its first image - I'll check that when I get home.
My suggestion:
Backup task 1 points to external drive 1 which is lettered as drive x pointing to destination folder x:\folder name\
Backup task 2 points to external drive 1 which is lettered as drive Y pointing to destination folder Y:\folder name\
Each external disk has its own personal different drive letter would be my recommendation. It is not a requirement but would aid in drive identification.
Another recommendation would be that you implement the use of "Drive Notify" which is a program written by MVP MudCrab.
This comes in both a free or purchased version. What Drive Notify is integrated into the the backup task and when the time comes for the backup to begin, DriveNotify pops up a windows advising you to attach a specific drive associated with that task. The open window remain open until the correct drive (not just any drive) is attached. Once the correct drive is attached,
if using the paid version, the attachment will be automatically recognized and the Notify window will close and the backup is allowed to begin without any need for the user to be present.
if using the free version, the notify window would remain open until closed by the user so the presence of the user would be required if using the free version.
The Drive Notify program is easy to configure and add the user requirements to make it function. I have used the program for more than a year and it works!
Thanks again guys,
Just to re-iterate, the drives are going to be identical in all respects. The only thing different will be the serial number. Does this still make a difference? I can easily enough make 2 tasks, one for each drive if that is really necessary.
Grover I understand what you are saying except if I have 2 identical external drives - if I put one into the USB port it will come up as "Drive E" in My Computer. If I take it out and put the other one in it will still come up as "Drive E" . So how do I assign them different drive letters? Do I need to go into Disk management to assign one of them a different letter? And does the drive "remember" this newly assigned letter when it is disconnected and then reconnected? (I didn't think this would be the case, you would have to re-assign it each time wouldn't you?) I had a look at the Drive Notify program but not sure it will help to identify between 2 identical drives. Also don't want to have to be around to follow the prompts.
So do I need to get different drive numbers or can I make 2 tasks with:
task 1 back up to drive 1 via path E:\backup 1 and
task 2 back up to drive 2 via path E:\backup 2
There has to be a task for each drive. The drive serial number makes up part of the task script.
OK didn't realise it got that fussy :)
is this correct though?
can I make 2 tasks with:task 1 back up to drive 1 via path E:\backup 1 and
task 2 back up to drive 2 via path E:\backup 2
Just to re-iterate, the drives are going to be identical in all respects. The only thing different will be the serial number. Does this still make a difference? I can easily enough make 2 tasks, one for each drive if that is really necessary.Grover I understand what you are saying except if I have 2 identical external drives - if I put one into the USB port it will come up as "Drive E" in My Computer. If I take it out and put the other one in it will still come up as "Drive E" . So how do I assign them different drive letters? Do I need to go into Disk management to assign one of them a different letter? And does the drive "remember" this newly assigned letter when it is disconnected and then reconnected? (I didn't think this would be the case, you would have to re-assign it each time wouldn't you?) I had a look at the Drive Notify program but not sure it will help to identify between 2 identical drives. Also don't want to have to be around to follow the prompts.
So do I need to get different drive numbers or can I make 2 tasks with:
task 1 back up to drive 1 via path E:\backup 1 and
task 2 back up to drive 2 via path E:\backup 2
Re-read post #24. It can be helpful.
The insertion of a flash drive; or a camera, or a usb printer, or perhaps a phone or external DVD player can cause the Windows automatic assignment of drive letters to be different at different times so you MUST NOT ASSUME that your destination drive letter will always be the next assigned letter or E. You will spend less time now getting it set up correctly as compared to having to troubleshoot your issues later. Do the drive letter assignment right the first time before you create your tasks.
Use Windows Disk Management to assign specific drive letters and specific unique names to your two externals. You need to be able to recognize each drive by its description. I always include the drive letter as part of the unique name so I can recognize if the letter has been assigned wrongly. Also assign a unique name to drive C if none currently assigned. You have 11 characters to use with no spaces--use dash or underscore.) Some examples of my names are below. Just name them so they make sense to you for positive identification.
Win7-C (for my system partition)
X640 (for an external disk lettered x with 640 as the size.
Y750_WD (for an external letters Y which is a WD disk size 750
Once you have assigned your specific drive letters, your hos computer will assign those same specific letters when disks inserted. If you plug the disk into other computers, the unique letters will NOT be assigned upon insertion and you will get whatever drive letter is next in line. So, it is important that the task be setup pointing to the unique drive letter and the disk insertion into the host computer should be correct.
Drive Notify will recognize each external disk correctly as part of the installation requirements are that the user place a text file in the root drive of each disk and that text file contain drive name identifications(X640 or Y750). These same name identification are stored in the host ini file for matching so there will be no mistake. If you insert the wrong disk for the task, Drive Notify will sit there and wait for the correct insertion. If the correct disk is inserted, Drive Notify will close either automatically (paid version) or will close when upon user closing the notification window (free version).
My suggested use of Drive Notify is because it works and is a good reminder rather than get error messages from the program when the awaited disk was not inserted. The Drive Notify program will not work correctly unless the user takes the time to read its instructions and assign the matching parameter requirements. It is easy to do but the details must be correct.
Later editing of an existing task can cause unexpected results. If an edit required, usually it is less troubleshooting hassle to create a new task and start over.
Once you have assigned your specific drive letters, your hos computer will assign those same specific letters when disks inserted. If you plug the disk into other computers, the unique letters will NOT be assigned upon insertion and you will get whatever drive letter is next in line. So, it is important that the task be setup pointing to the unique drive letter and the disk insertion into the host computer should be correct.
So what does this mean if you are recoverying your disk image on a different computer to the one it was saved on? Would you need to assign the same letter to the drive before attempting the recovery? Or does the recovery process just allow you to browse to the location of the backup on the drive irrespective of what drive letter is assigned by the new computer?
PS Grover: Please see Post #19 again, refers back to post #17. Maybe you didn't see it?
Recovering a full disk image to a different computer, what we call "dissimilar hardware", is not a core function of True Image. That would require addition of the Plus Pack. Such a recovery is not trivial, as you must prepare all needed drives (in uncompressed .inf format) before the restore. That's because the .tib image naturally contains drivers for the system that created the image, while the new PC would have different hardware requiring different drivers.
. "Once you have assigned your specific drive letters, your hos computer
will assign those same specific letters when disks inserted. If you plug the
disk into other computers, the unique letters will NOT be assigned upon
insertion and you will get whatever drive letter is next in line. So, it is
important that the task be setup pointing to the unique drive letter and the
disk insertion into the host computer should be correct."So what does this mean if you are recovering your disk image on a different
computer to the one it was saved on? Would you need to assign the same letter
to the drive before attempting the recovery? Or does the recovery process
just allow you to browse to the location of the backup on the drive
irrespective of what drive letter is assigned by the new computer?
Everything you quoted here relates to the backup creation and the insertion of your external disks--nothing to do with recovery. The computer that created the special drive letters will recognize them and assign them. Other computers will assign different drive letters.
When doing a recovery it does not matter what drive letters are assigned to the disks (by the restore program) containing the backup files. Browse and find them (you know their unique disk names so drive letters are inmaterial) and restore them. Once the restore disk is booted, Windows will assign the drive letters to whatever partitions were restored.
PS: I will look at post #17-19 later.
Thanks Tuttle and Grover
Yes I realise I need the Plus pack for a different system - that's my point - the drive would have a different letter assigned to it by the new computer, but I just wondered if it had to match what is was originally in the backup task in order for the restore program to recognise it, but Grover has answered that.
I have now downloaded the trial version & started playing with it, now that I have a better understanding of what to do (thanks to all).
In regards to using and swapping 2 drives I think I have come up with a solution (notwithstanding I may yet look at Drive Notify)...but just to confirm I understand properly, would this work:
(1) Make Back up task "ST3250410AS on J" and save it to external drive J:\My Backups\ST3250410AS on J (Full + Incremental scheduled as one full back up + 6 incrementals repeated up until designated space is reached)
(2) At the end of the month, Remove Drive J and insert drive K and make Back up task "ST3250410AS on K" (could make this easy by just cloning previous task and renaming the backup task "ST3250410AS on K" and backup destination to external drive K:\My Backups\ST3250410AS on K )
(3) Change Back up task "ST3250410AS on J" to No schedule so it doesn't run
(4) At the end of the next month, swap over drives, stop schedule on K and restart schedule on J.
PS The ST3250410AS is my C drive number. I could also add the external drive serial number to the J and K respectively once I have it
Drive letter is irrelevant, totally irrelevant, as Grover said. The Plus Pack has nothing to do with drive letters.
Your best course is to make a full disk mode backup, which includes all partitions (even hidden ones), to an external HD. That will include everything: Windows; all your settings; all your installed software applications; all your data; ... everything. That will be far safer than just backing up the C: drive.
Thanks Tuttle,
Yes I know the Plus pack has nothing to do with drive letters, sorry I probably didn't express it right, I was trying to acknowledge that I understood that Plus pack was needed for new hardware and that it would be required to assign the correct drivers for the different hardware, but then I also said that I understood Grover had said that the drive letter used for backup did not relate to the drive letter for recovery....
two different things, I should have separated them... :) Sorry I'm a bit clumsy in trying to explain technical things
And yes I would do full disk mode, when I said "C" I meant everything on it including hidden partitions. There is only one main partition on that drive, and only one drive in the computer. :)
Other than that, is my plan looking OK?
Would this work?(1) Make Back up task "ST3250410AS on J" ............ until designated space is reached)
I personally would NOT use the option related to consumed or remaining space as the control factor. Too many posting have been made with issues with related to "space" or elapsed time. My recommendation is to use the option that retains "store no more than x recent version chains. This has consistently worked for me. This is illustrated in signature link #2 below under the figure 11-Inc illustration.
(2) At the end of the month, Remove Drive J and insert drive K
I would prefer a more frequent exchange of disks or more frequent update of the two disks. You have one disk with a 30 day old backup. If you get hit with an electrical jolt, you could lose both the computer plus any attached external. Wouldn't you prefer a more recent backup.
and make Back up task "ST3250410AS on K" (could make this easy by just cloning previous task and renaming the backup task
I choose not to use task clone or renaming. I want my task to be an "original". I do not want the two tasks to be related--even behind the scenes
(4) At the end of the next month, swap over drives,
See prior comments about a more frequent rotation.
I could also add the external drive serial number to the J and K respectively
Not sure of what value this has. Your disks will already have unique names (assigned by you). Check link #2 below and look at illustration figure #8. Figure 8 shows assorted names which can be added to the either the backup file name or task name. Understand that the two names are not necessarily the identical but are distinctly separate. The backup filename is one entity and the task name is another entity. They may the same or different--user choice and assigned names user controlled.
I would encourage you to use the software and spend time with the documentation. My link #2 below is a good place to start but there is nothing like "hands on". Note also the "Useful links" along the left margin of this webpage which has a link to web help and others. Some practice will make everything fall into place much easier. There is a learning curve and I do not know of any way of avoiding time spent learning and researching. Many user questions have already been asked and answered via other questions and posts. Use the Acronis search function; or even the internet search function (google or Bing or Yahoo) such as
"search words" site:http://forum.acronis.com
such as
GroverH + timeout + shutdown site:http://forum.acronis.com
PS:
Regarding your post #19:
1. These settings have never been an issue with me. All my disk restores have returned the disk to the same condition it was at time of backup. The folder dates and file dates have all been original.
2. I validate the backup at time of creation and occasionally thereafter. I would only validate before a restore if I felt a need. If you had been having disk issues or something, you might consider validating before a restore understanding the validation could consume considerable time-- but it would never be wasted time.
3. if a reboot is needed, I want to be in front of the computer and execute the reboot. I would not want an automatic reboot and not be around to see the any resulting display messages.
4. Understand my guides are just that--guides. There is no "one size fits all" and special circumstances can dictate a need for special procedures.
Good luck with your practice.
Thanks,
All good advice as always, yes weekly is probably a better way to go. Note I will be doing a separate backup of data on a much more frequent basis, and that is the part I care about most.
About adding in the serial no, I was referring to this practice you quoted in post #29
"Use Windows Disk Management to assign specific drive letters and specific unique names to your two externals. You need to be able to recognize each drive by its description. I always include the drive letter as part of the unique name so I can recognize if the letter has been assigned wrongly. Also assign a unique name to drive C if none currently assigned. You have 11 characters to use with no spaces--use dash or underscore.) Some examples of my names are below. Just name them so they make sense to you for positive identification.
Win7-C (for my system partition)
X640 (for an external disk lettered x with 640 as the size.
Y750_WD (for an external letters Y which is a WD disk size 750 "
Except as my drives would be identical the only "extra" ID I could put on them would be the serial No....(rather than 640 or 750...)
I have just completed my first backup, albeit to a network drive as I am yet to go out & get the external drives. Having a poke around it, managed to extract & copy one file back to the drive so that bit worked OK. :)
User assigns most unique names. You have control using the 11 characters.
Inside Windows #Explorer, right click and choose properties on any disk you are using. You will see the Windows where the unique name can be assigned. As an example, I had suggested assigning a name to Drive C (such as Win7-C) if your drive C is not identified with its own unique name. User has no control over the model numbers assigned to the disk by the manufacturer but does have control over the visible unique name.
Edit: If your two externals are not yet in your possession, upon arrival, they will need to be partitioned and formatted. During that process,you will be provided with the opportunity to assign a specific drive letter and their own individual unique names.
Thanks again. I have now created a rescue disk (had to go the long way round and burn an ISO image on another computer as believe it or not mine is so old I don't have a burner)
Booted up & got the Acronis Loader to load up, after selecting "True Image" on the Welcome screen. Even managed eventually to find the saved backup on my network drive (wasn't immediately obvious but found it via Computers Near Me)...had a look through the recovery steps up to the final one and cancelled out.
I then clicked on the Windows logo on the first screen to go back to Windows, assuming that was the best way to then boot into Windows. I was just a bit surprised when I next restarted & tried booting up again (with the CD still in of course) that the Acronis Loader flipped almost straight away from the welcome screen into Windows....(without input from me) ... I tried again & this time watched and had to click on the "True image" tab very quickly before it happened again to get it to open the recovery console...which it did. Does it remember the last option made? I just assumed that each time it booted up from the CD it would come to that Welcome screen & stop until you made a choice...is there a better option to go back to Windows if not proceeding with an actual recovery?
When you make the recovery environment from within True Image, there is a time out setting you can set. The ISO version has somehting like a 10 second default time out.
See attached dodgy highlighted snipshot.
Yeah except I have 2 problems:
(1) The timeout is to start True Image automatically after 10 secs or whatever time is selected. Not selecting supposedly stops you at the Welcome screen for user to choose between TI and Windows and another option I forget.... Mine did neither it automatically booted into Windows straight from the Welcome screen (and just to be clear, yes I have the CD in the drive and it boots from the CD into the Acronis Loader )
....and...
(2) I went back to this AMB screen to check it out and the selection box to tick start automatically is greyed out so I can't even check it. Is this because it is the trial version?
(2) I went back to this AMB screen to check it out and the selection box to tick start automatically is greyed out so I can't even check it. Is this because it is the trial version?
You have to highlight the True Image entry for the time out option to become enabled.
As with many software programs, experimenting with options and the GUI is the only way to understand and gain confidence with them.
Oh OK when I made the disk I had ticked the "parent" (first) TI box which simultaneoulsy ticked both the True Image & the System Report ....which I thought would be best but I just tried ticking them one at a time and the timeout came out of the grey. Having said that though, I had those both checked when I first made the disk and inserted it the first time & it pulled up at the Welcome screen OK - it was only when I tried the subsequent time it went to Windows. Strange.
So I'd have to remake the disk if I wanted to go back & have that time option - suppose there's no harm in having a spare disk anyway
No big deal even if I have to catch & click the TI logo on the Welcome screen, I was just curious as to why it would happen.
:) Thanks again
Anne
PS Yes I understand I need to experiment but I have asked these questions after looking through the documentation and experimenting without finding why it was happening :)
ozeannie, please spend more time reading documentation. You can't expect this level of MVP response for every little question you have. Check out the many user guides and tutorials in the left margin of this forum, particularly Getting Started and Grover's True Image Guides which are illustrated with step-by-step screenshots.