Why is this latest version (ATI Home 2010) so complicated for backups?

Hmmm.....

Whatever text formater this board uses, has just destroyed my tabbed text file beyond interpretation.

Basically, every few groups of backups, a new sub directory structure is formed.

Perhaps it will be easier to attach a jpg.

see the files named giga.

Cheers Don...

Hi Don,
I'll jump in here and try to help and I am probably considerably older than you so age can't be an excuse (smile). Since we both a long time users of TI, I will cover some of the differences and just overlook anything that you already know.

One important reminder. TrueImageHome does not like to have its tasks edited. If a task change is needed, it works better to create a new task rather than attempt to edit an existing task. Once a task has been created, the only permissible changes are when you "right click" on the task and the context menu offers you the capability to either rename or change the task schedule. Since you did not click the edit function, these two changes are not considered as "editing a task".

The numbering system uses file name (giga.tib___no number but assumed internally always to be numbered as 1) for the first full backup; and then file name plus the backup number beginning sequentially with 2 as the first incremental(giga2.tib; giga3.tib; giga4.tib and subsequent additions. The problem begins when a new full backup is created in the same folder and then the numbering system becomes difficult to follow. It is less confusing if you place each new full backup (and its dependants) in a different folder.

The *.tib backup archive file can be either a full backup, an incremental or a differential backup.
A backup set comprises a full backup and optionally either incremental or differential (but not both) dependent parts. A differential or incremental backup is useless without its base which is the full backup.

Thus, you have your giga.tib as the base and then the giga2, gig3, giga4 as incremental but dependent upon the existence of giga.tib for the incremental to be usable. So if you had a giga24 incremental, all prior incremental must be in the same folder all be readable. If any of the prior 2-23 backups are corrupt(chain becomes broken), then all incremental beyond the corrupt one is useless.

On the other hand, if you use differential type backups, then you only need the base plus a single selected differential.

An incremental backup is one that contains the changes since the last incremental backup. Whereas, a differential contains all the changes since the last full backup. The differential does not need any of the other differential whereas, an incremental file needs all prior incremental's in order to be usable.

If you want to make your backup procedure one that is easy to implement and easy to follow, then I suggest that you consider the helper program Chain2Gen(C2G) designed by forum contributor OracleDBA. TrueImageHome performs the backup according to your schedule and then C2G controls how many backups folders are retained and make sure a new full backup is completed according to the criteria set by you.

The external disk would not get full so a reformat would never be necessary. Once C2G sees that our desired number of backup folders has been reached, then it deletes the oldest folder to make room for the approaching new backup.

C2G has a variety of possible parameters so investigate the program. In its simplest form, you determine how many backup files are to be retained in one folder(set0) plus how many folders that you want retained. The current backup storage folder is always called "set0" and subsequent folders numbered sequentially. Thus, for example, if you wanted to
---a. retain 13 weeks of backups
---b. Each weeks would comprise one full plus six daily incremental's.
C2G would create 13 folders numbered set0.....set13
each folder (set?) folder would contain 7 backups (giga.tib....giga2....giga6.tib)
Each week as a new full backup set added, the oldest folder(set?) would be rotated upwards and deleted if the number of backup folders reach its limit.

Click on my signature link below and browse to category #3. Item 3B is an easy to understand "How to" pdf file and item 3A explains many of the possible uses of the program plus even more "how to" examples.

A little time spend in the beginning setting up the C2G program can save you a lot of time and trouble later on.

Hi GroverH,

Just a quick response initially, as I believe what I have is a bug, however I will read your response in depth if this isn't the case.

BTW
I am 67 :-)

If I place a numeric digit on the end of my filename, then it works as advertised.
Once I found this out, I simply added @date@ to insure that a numeric digit is at the end of the filename string, and the incremental backups work fine.

Now my biggest problem is turning validation after backup, permanently off.
It was working fine, but of course I have changed every setting known to mankind to get this to work, so I may have permanently upset something.
I can select an individual backup to clear the validation flag, but next backup, it is switched back on.

I am considering un-installing and trying again, however as it is an upgrade on V7, and V8, I may have to got through the procedure of installing V8 with two sets of passwords, and upgrading to 2010. What a pain.

I know it is all about piracy, but it tends to cripple any ideas of advancement in some directions. I know I have moved in different directions in the past, because of software being over secure.

I just did a sign up to a site that I was keen to be part of, and it took me 6 tries at getting the alpha-numeric captcha input correct. Am I that blind?

Thanks again,

Cheers Don...

You're still 21 years younger. (smile)

I am not sure but I believe you would not need to install the prior versions but you would need to input all their serial numbers.

In the newer version, or at least in 7046 build, you are correct. It is NOT possible to turn Validation off for the default setting. The user can only turn off validation at the task level.

There was a prior posting about the need for a numeric number. I will try to find it and see if it is relevant.

I still suggest that you consider Chain2Gen. I just make things easier control and little to no attention.

GroverH wrote:

You're still 21 years younger. (smile)

I am not sure but I believe you would not need to install the prior versions but you would need to input all their serial numbers.

In the newer version, or at least in 7046 build, you are correct. It is NOT possible to turn Validation off for the default setting. The user can only turn off validation at the task level.

There was a prior posting about the need for a numeric number. I will try to find it and see if it is relevant.

I still suggest that you consider Chain2Gen. I just make things easier control and little to no attention.

Let's see: 67 + 21 = 88years if my maths is correct.
I find that hard to believe agent 86.

I hope at 88 I have the strength to press cnt+alt+del all at the same time, let alone find them on the keyboard. I guess Micro$oft will always want us to do this.

Thanks for the heads up on the re-install. I'm sure that will be correct.

I also saw something in the archives about the filename with numerics attached. Can't find it either, but I think it gave me the clue to try a number on the end of my filename. Pretty positive this is a bug now.

So I guess the validation will be reset to default if I re-install. I just wonder why it got out of sync, and why I can't control it from a normal menu task.

Chain2Gen:
I wonder if it will really help me.
I start work at around 04:00 to 05:00. Do my email. Pack my orders, no strict time frame of course. Then I start my backup, and go for an hours walk around the block to save me getting fatter. I like to backup when when it is convenient for me. If there was a pause function, it would allow me to intercept and do some email and other work, if the need arises. I much prefer controlling my backups at times that suit me, not have software push me into what I don't want to do.

Time for a why!
Why does this message board jump into html code when you do an edit?
It may be almost alright for you and me, who can write html code on the run, but this is the first time I have seen this method used on a support message board. Another silly modern idea?

Thanks again GroverH

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

I stand corrected. You're right. Age is a problem. I am only 78. I had better not use this new math.(smile)

A reinstall of 2010 will not change the validation setting. It is preset to validation "on". Your only recourse is when you create the task, change it within the backup options settings when you are creating the task. Since editing a task is a "no no", your only recourse is to create a new task with the validation turned off.

You can reset some of the settings for future task creations. From the main top menu, choose the Tools/options. Across the top is some reset settings which may be useful.

If the backup is begun inside Windows, you can use your computer during the backup process without any ill effects to the backup. Your backup is a snapshot at the time of the initial beginning of the backup. I use my computer for email checks, visits to this website, etc--all while my backup is being created.

TIH backups can be initiated from within the GUI via either scheduled or non-scheduled tasks. Or from desktop shortcuts (non-scheduled) or from a Windows Scheduled Task.

Chain2Gen will also work with non-scheduled tasks. When TrueImage starts a backup (either scheduled or manually invoked, TIH starts Chain2Gen from the TIH internal pre/post tasks option. Spend a few minutes with my pdf in item 3B for a quick update on its creation and use.

I have 5 active tasks. Three tasks of which involve backups to different external drives with different drive letters. Two t asks point to two different internal hard drives. Chain2Gen manages all of these for me. Four are scheduled tasks and one is a random non-scheduled backups.

As for the editor problem with html, I just ignore the codes and go ahead and make the correction--either adding or removing text and the editor seems smart enough to adjust to the editor changes. While creating this response, I edited this posting five or six times and each time, the editor handled the changes without any html attention at all. I simply typed in the text and the editor properly posted it for me.

Thanks for all your in depth comments and suggestions GroverH.
It is very nice to get this sort of response and feedback from any self help forum, in a reasonable time.

I started looking into possible program settings under c:\my programs\ etc., but nothing obvious, so I persevered and yes, found the setting under Backup options> Local Storage > Archive Validation. This is now working fine, and I believe was a result of me resetting all settings to the default settings. No doubt this is set incorrectly to "Validation On", instead of "off". Meaning it is set to "off" when first installed, but flips to "on" when the user sets to default settings. Quite a trap.

The need for any numeric digit after the filename is a bug. Should I be reporting this, and if so how do I go about it? I couldn't find a support contact email in a reasonable time frame. Most support seems to shy away from using an email address these days. But then I know the problem. I run a business and rely on self help groups for initial support also. :-)

Summary:
I was simply looking for the same functionality in Home 2010, as I had in V7 and V8, and I had to invest many hours before I could achieve the same result.

I thank you for your suggestions with Chain2Gen, and now that I have a functioning backup system, I will check it out.

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

First, thank you for correcting my error regarding the validation settings. I looked at those options before I posted my comments because I felt it odd that the validations settings could not be changed on a default basis. My error--your find. Can't see the forest for the trees syndrome.

Send the forum moderator a private message regarding the bug and he will get it to the proper people. You can send a PM from this link below.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/3068

Or, if you will write up the issue in more detail in this thread, I will point the Acronis support people to your posting.

Good luck with your backups and my apologies for supplying wrong information about the validation setting. Such a goof is unlike my usual postings.
Grover

I feel your pain.
I just hate the recovery catalog introduced in TI-2009 and continued in ti-2010.
I can't think of a single instance where it has done anything and conversely any time I try to use it its lets me down.
to keep my world sane I simply ingore the catalog and NEVER use it.
ok - with that rant over. Here is what I hope you may find useful...

to keep things simple for me in TI-2010 I all backups as a backup task.
It really does not matter of that task is scheduled or manual, its still a backup task.
Each backup task writes to one and only one folder
Each backup task writes to its very own folder which is not used by any other backup task.
A directory listing of that folder then is all the files created by that task.
To keep things manageable I usually make the task name, the path to the folder, and the basename of the ".tib" all the same string.

before you define any backup tasks it can save you time to first define the default setting which will be used by all NEW tasks.
click "tools&utilities" "options" then go thru every panel/hyper link. For me the most important one is "notifications" "email" be sure to drill into "additonal email parameters". The reason for this if you have an always on internet connection then its useful to have backups occur at 2am while your sleeping. I usually have all jobs send email on if there are issues.

with that done lets define a new task
"create backup task"
"disk & Partiton backup"
most people want their entire HD backed up so they can recover in the event of a HD crash.
to do this place a check mark on the top level disk1 this will cascade a check marks into all the partitions of that drive.
"next" choose "create a new backup" click "browse" use the gui panel to surf your way to to the desired target drive and folder.
NOTE - a commonly reported GUI bug here is this panel is Not fully displayed you may have to stretch the box WIDER to see both DRIVE listings AND folder listings. When you find the target drive, if you decide you need to create a folder at that location the menu tree at the top of this window includes a "create folder" item.
As I said before I usually name this folder what I will eventually call the task. A typical name for me is [pcname]_line_[letter]
example sidney_line_a
at this point I usually make the filename the same as folder name but with a dash "-" character immediatly before the ".tib"
if your using C2G a typical backup filename would be
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-.tib

the reason for the trailing dash is acronis is going to suffix on numbers to this name.
If everything goes as designed you will end up with filenames such as this...
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-.tib
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-2.tib
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-3.tib
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-4.tib
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-5.tib

FYI the above is what is normal.
The following is my observation on how things work.
What seems to phyically occur is during the intial virginal (full) backup.
During the runtime of that backup the actual filename will be
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-1.tib
if the backup proceeds without issue when the task finishes the file is closed/renamed to your original task name.
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-.tib
the next day when your backup runs again (I'm assuming your task is a daily incr task)
the filename during the runtime of the backup will be next available number, in this case\
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-2.tib

assuming this backup finishes without issue then your folder will contain
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-.tib
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-2.tib

the days that follow you will get a 3, 4, 5, 6 ect...
If your using C2G then eventually the folder will get cleared and acronis will once again create a
z:\backup\sidney_line_a\set0\sidney_line_a-.tib

ok enough about filenames, while your in this panel (the title bar reads "browse for location")
if your target folder is a network drive you may need to specify logon credentials.
If so now is the time to click the menu item "authentication settings" and put in the username/password.
If your target drive does not need a logon username/password then you can ignore the menu item.
now "ok" and "next" your way back out to get the window who's title has the word "summary"
at this point look toward the bottom of the panel you will see a the box for "run task now" is checked.
We do not want that, uncheck it then hit the "options" push button.
at this point you want to fill out every panel as desired.
For "schedule" I find "daily" is a common choice.
for "backup method" I find "incremental" is a common choice
for "what to exclude" I find the acronis defaults acceptable.
for "backup options" I find I commonly need to drill into
suboption -> "pre/post" commands ( this is where you use C2G)

FYI: you specifically mentioned you have a preference on if a validation should automatically occur or not when a backup finishes, this is the panel where you declare that.
Because I use C2G I never use any of the automatic consolidation features.
for comments it can be helpful in the long run to put in the version number of TI, the PCname, task name and what the task does.

when you have everything defined click "proceed" to create the task.

to manually run a task right click it and choose "start" otherwise you can simply let it run via schedule.

Hope something of the above you find useful.

Thank you very much GroverH and oracledba for your in depth guidance and explanations that cover the problems I have encountered. I know I will have to follow through more thoroughly to get a better understanding of ATI Home 2010, and the operational use of it.

--------------------------------------

Bug Report:
GroverH, I decided to place my little bug report in this message so that you can easily point ATI support at the problems. Thanks for your suggestion, and for doing this. :-)

====================================

System: ATI Home 2010 build 7.046, XP sp3.

Bug 1:
Disk and Partition Backup

I create a new archive called "giga", and this works fine.
The next daily backup I select "add to archive" and this works by creating "giga2" in an ATI imposed virtual directory structure under this same group selection. Still looks fine.

But then I try to add further archives using the filename giga, and it starts to create its own group called giga3, with giga3, giga4, etc.

Easiest way to explain this is to add a jpg, see attached.

The add to existing backup archive field, and Backup location fields become very random-ish, and don't make a lot of sense. I had no idea what input to select, and what I had to do to force it to work correctly.

After hours of experimentation, I found if I if I added a numeric digit onto the end of the filename string, the backup worked as advertised.

Once I found this out, I simply added @date@ to insure that a numeric digit is at the end of the filename string, and the incremental backups work fine.

Bug2:
When installed, backup Validation it is set to "off", but flips to "on" when the user sets to default settings.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers Don...

http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

Hello all,

Grover and oracldeba, thanks for your assistance.

Don, I'll forward the reported issues with backup naming and validation to our QA department. Once I have any news from them I'll surely update this thread.

Please reply to this thread if you have any additional questions.

Thank you.

Thanks Ilya,

I do have one.

I was using "Total Commander" to mount an archive as a virtual drive, simply by clicking on it. Now it jumps to Explorer.
Is there a method of using an association to invoke the mount without the need to run ATI each time?
I can see the dismount Icon and working function, in Total Commander, but no mount. I assume other apps have a similar problem.

I find this another backward step with the latest version.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers Don...

Don,

You know of me (look north to the state of humidity and cows that don't understand DST), I've bought stuff from you and we discussed CCS compilers last year via the Piclist.

The numbering problem was identified by Acronis at around the final beta stage and was supposed to (I believe) be fixed in one of the earlier builds.

Hi Colin, I know the location you mean :-)

That's a shame, as I have spent hours pinpointing this bug.
At this stage, I would settle for Version 8 with an updated interface to SATA drives etc.
An ATI Starter 2010 with basic functions??

Perhaps my vision has been impaired, but it seems 2010 has lost the simplicity and functionality of Version 8.
All I want is to have a reliable hard drive backup and recovery system, plus the ability to mount a drive copy of my home PC, when I am on the road.

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

I think I have finally figured this out.

After once again reading through every bodies feed back, I see that I must create a task as step number one, and use that task for every backup.

Initially I steered away from even looking at this, and was doing each backup manually, as that is what V7 and V8 had taught me.

Now if I steer away from manually creating each incremented backup, and use the task procedure, the backups take place correctly, and it is much simpler than doing each backup manually.

I can do these backups without adding a trailing numeric digit to the filename.

However the bug I mentioned with the filename is still there. It doesn't allow you to do manual backups correctly, you must set it up as a task.

It also means I can swap drives over without worrying about @date@ conflicts, and simply use my backup name as the task for each drive on each alternative day.

This may sound simple and logical to people that have been using 2010 only, but for me, migrating from previous versions, the same backup procedures don't work with this resident bug.

Again thanks all,

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

Careful about swapping the drives over, a TI task embeds the hard drives Windows ID number into the script, if the attached drive doesn't match this number the task will fail.

The way around this will be to create two tasks that run on alternate days or whatever the 'swap' period is defined as.

Eg:

Task one, drive one, runs a daily task on M,W,F,Su.
Task two, drive two, runs a daily task T,Th,S.

With possibly the Weekend tasks being the days either consolidation takes place or new 'Fulls' .

Variations on the theme can be more easily accomplished with Chain2Gen at this present time.

OH, OK, point noted. and understood.
Just as well I mentioned it.

Thanks very much Colin,

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

Don,
and.... if you want to be reminded as to which external drive to attach, consider using DriveNotify as part of each task. DriveNotify and Chain2Gen also work well together.

As I mentioned in post #6,

I have 5 active tasks. Three tasks of which involve backups to different external drives with different drive letters. Two tasks point to two different internal hard drives. Chain2Gen manages all of these for me. Four are scheduled tasks and one is a random non-scheduled backups.

Drive Notify is a integral part of these tasks and is a reminder to attach the disk and also which disk to attach. For me, using DrvNotify and C2G to mange my backups is painless and predictable.

:-)
thanks GroverH, just having a read through it all now.

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

I purchased ATI Home 2010 1 week ago, and it looks like I am not a lot closer to actually knowing what it is doing, and making it work correctly.

OK, if I have 2 drives, I need to have 2 separate tasks, or I will get errors. I purchased three WD 500gb drives so I could alternate drives daily, and keep a backup off site at say, 2 to 3 monthly intervals.

I named my drives 1, 2, & 3, and labeled them accordingly on the top, so I could see the drive number.

I named my tasks:
filename_1
filename_2
filename_3

so that each time I go to write to a drive, I select the task that matches the drive.

I was about to install "Drive Notify" as users had suggested that this and "Chain2Gen" would prove very advantageous for ATI backups.

Before doing so, I thought I better try an incremental backup to make sure all is well, and that I fully understand what the program is doing.

With drive 1 and task 1, I thought I would get:
filename_1 (Full)
filename_12 (Inc)
filename_13 (Inc) etc.

No way, I got:
filename_1 (Full)
filename_2 (Inc)

which conflicts with my drive 2 backup settings.

Ok, I am now trying:
1_filename (Full)
2_filename (Full)
3_filename (Full)
on 3 different drives. When I have done that, I will then test the incremental backups, to see what numbers they produce.

I have now done perhaps 50 full and incremental backups, and still looking for something to work.

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/

Don,
I believe TIH does sometimes get confused with the last character of the file name is a number--especially 1.

I believe your last choice will work; or you first choice would also work if it were changed to read Filename1- so the last character is a dash or a letter.

If you decide to use Chain2Gen with the same settings, this is what you can expect to see as an example after running 3 backup sets or a total of 3 different full backups either with or without incrementals for the hard drive named filename1. C2G moves the backup set one week older each time a full backup is created.

http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2010/06/11261/set-al…

Thanks GroverH,

I saw oracledba's mention and explanation of the '-' suffix addition to the filename, and I almost added it before trying this new sequence.

Hopefully I am settled with filenames (task names) now.

Cheers Don...
http://www.dontronics-shop.com/