[RESOLVED] Windows Explorer freezes after install of ATI 2013
I have a problem after installing ATI 2013.
A short time after the system boots (the time varies from seconds to minutes) I encounter a freeze on the display of Windows Explorer or when I right click on a file.
If I revert to my previous image backup I don't have any problems (this backup has ATI 2011 installed).
Then if I uninstall ATI 2011 and re-install ATI 2013 the problem occurs again.
I did a lot of work trying to diagnose it but I'm stuck.
I started using 'msconfig' to remove all the start-up programs, but that made no difference.
Then I removed all the start-up Task scheduler routines that I made for myself, but that made no difference.
I made a number of other attempts, like disabling some hardware in the device manager, but that made no difference.
I even tried a boot in safe mode with a minimal system, but that made no difference.
I tried disabling Acronis Nonstop backup service and the sync service, but that made no difference.
I will attach three images that show what happens. The first shows what a normal shell display looks like - which is what I see after a restart. The second shows what happens shortly after that. Once this happens I can browse folders and files, but not the 'computer' - the top-level view. And if I right click on a file, the busy icon shows and the display hangs until I kill the explorer task in Task Manager.
The third image shows a similar thing in Safe Mode.
When whatever causes this to happen, happens, I see the Windows Explorer window show a green progress bar at the top while the status bar shows 'Searching for items...' It appears to be trying to enumerate all the drives, but never terminating. The green progress bar moves slowly until it fills the top - the usual 100% complete spot - but it never disappears and seems to be stuck at 100% searching. I have to kill that window in the Task manager. Normally this display is almost instantaneous, but when this situation occurs I can wait for, maybe, 10 minutes and it still won't refresh.
If I use the Start button and right click on 'My Computer', it will freeze and the taskbar also freezes so I can't start up the Task Manager - I need to restart.
It appears to me that Acronis True Image is confused about the state of my drives or the drive enumeration.
I have a complex system, but I've had no stability problems with ATI 2011 or any other program. The final image show the Acronis Disk Directory display of the drive and partition structure.
Issue addressed here.
I loaded Sysinternals Process Explorer and created a full crash dump when this happened.
Then I loaded the dump into Windbg and got this analysis (attached file).
I can't interpret these results, maybe someone else can.
And... before someone asked, I did run CHKDSK on all my disks before installing ATI 2013. I also checked the Event lists for errors or unusual things.
I did save all the installation stuff from TEMP after the install as well as a system report and the initial True Image console logs. From all the stuff I looked over I didn't see anything that warranted a closer inspection.
When I uninstalled ATI 2011 (twice) I carefully went through the registry removing anything related to that and also removed stuff from the file system folders that had True Image in the name. As far as I could tell there was no trace of anything left.
I also went through the device manager and removed all the hidden 'ghost' drives that accumulate there as well as all the USB drives that were not needed. I let the system run overnight after the uninstall of ATI 2011 and before the re-install of ATI 2013. During the night a Retrospect incremental file backup runs, the Perfect Disk defragmentation tool runs, and other stuff goes on. Before the install this morning there were no signs of anything unusual.
I have not done an image backup yet, but I have validated my older images made using ATI 2011 in ATI 2013 There are still some in the queue, but so far all validate OK.
I have tried to mount one of these and they appear to mount (I get a drive letter and OK status), but this usually triggers the freeze so I don't look at the mounted image drive.
In the device manager here are the driver versions:
Acronis devices:
TIB Mounter: tib_mounter.sys (4.2.1026)
Virtual Disk Bus: vididr.sys (1.1.0.1021)
On the Disk drives:
Disk Drive drivers: fltsrv.sys (1.3.0.1022) and vidsflt.sys (1.1.0.1021)
EDIT:
Attached an image of the system drivers for Acronis courtesy of Taskinfo.
And another note.
As far as I can tell, nothing else but Explorer Shell seems to be affected: Chrome, Thunderbird, my audio programs, etc. Everything seems to be working OK.
Sorry for all the verbiage...
Jim,
Have you selected to integrate TI 2013 into Windows or left it at the default setting? Was 2011 integrated?
For testing purposes try stopping VSS in Windows Services temporarily and see what happens when you start 2013 and then try with VSS started but disabling Windows Indexing (Right click in your File Manager select properties and untick 'Allow files on this drive etc' ).
My guess is that either the Acronis disk filter isn't playing nice or the Windows Indexing process is having a problem.
Do you have 2011 tasks and schedules auto imported into 2013 or are the 2013 tasks all new? It might be an idea to delete the 2011 tasks and make brand new 2013 tasks.
Colin,
Thank you for the advice. I will attempt that tomorrow. Right now I am validating a large archive (1.4TB) and I want it to finish without interruption.
For ATI 2011 I had it integrated with Windows. For ATI 2013, on the first install I had it integrated, but on the second, current install, it is not integrated.
In the first install of ATI 2013 I imported my settings from ATI 2011 and they seemed correct. But on the second install I manually made all settings.
Your mention of Windows Search is interesting because I have Windows search redirected to "E:\Windows Indexing".
I made a great effort when I set things upon this system to distribute resources among my 6 drives -
I used 'Locate' (in the folder properties) on the user folders, mail folders, 'My Document' and 'Desktop' - assigning them to J:,
temp and page file is on D:
Windows search is on E:,
Google cache is symlinked (mklink /D) to E:\Google
Acronis stuff is dedicated to S:
Retrospect stuff is dedicated to R:
All my software installation files, licenses, orders, tech files are saved on H: which is not backed up, but is duplicated (synchronized with ROBOCOPY scripts) to I:
All my audio projects and libraries are on K:
There are no Restore Points enabled. No remote desktop; minimal services.
I have lots of these directory junctions for my audio file folders as well, so if ATI 2013 has problems with reparse points that ATI 2011 successfully navigated it will have a big problem in my system. Retrospect does not have any problems. I use Retrospect for incremental daily file backup and recovery, Acronis is just for partition images and disaster recovery. Ironically, ATI 2012 created a disaster for me and ATI 2013 is causing me no end of grief - it is not very comforting when something as intrusinve as ATI misbehaves. That is my fervent wish that Acronis makes some sort of stripped-down simplified image backup routine instead of the current 'kitchen sink' model.
I mainly wanted to get all the data and file fragmentation stuff off the the C drive and try to utilize the parallelism of 6 high speed SATA drives.
I also noticed that when I ran the Resource Monitor that TrueImage is opening network connections. I don't want that, so I am modifying it's firewall rules.
I also have a lot of customized folder and drive icons so that I can visually locate folders easily (I tend to be a File/Folder oriented guy - not a heavy GUI user) - and I notice that when this problem occurs, there are just blank generic folder icons, not my customizations.
All my last queued Backup Validations of all my prior ATI 2011 backup images validated OK.
I am trying to isolate 2 conditions:
1) Is Windows Search involved?
2) Is Volume Shadow Copy involved?
So I disable Windows Search service.
Indexing Options shows that the service is not running.
No difference.
Next I will disable VSS.
OK. all my previous backups that I have saved in ATI 2011 have validated OK. So now I can continue investigating the problem.
I disable Windows Search and restart.
No difference.
I disable VSS and restart (twice) - no difference. In fact it's worse. The display freeze happens immediately.
It really look like the problem is in Acronis True Image 2013.
Now I am re-enabling Search and VSS.
If you guys at Acronis need a debugger/tester for your stuff, call me.
I am a beta tester for audio software and have a lot of Unix/Windows/VxWorks experience.
Your software needs a lot of work to pass my standards.
EDIT later after a good night's sleep:
Sorry for the jib. This is the voice of a tired, frustrated person. I had been up for 36 hours working this thing to death when I wrote this.
There is reference to tishell64.dll in the dump, it's a part of trueimage that integrates in windows explorer to provide context menu actions such as 'add to nonstop backup'. Most likely it doesn't work well with other shell extensions, or just by itself. To check if it is so, rename it to .old (may be you will need to kill explorer.exe from tasmanager to do it)
There is also 'file versions' tab in file properties dialog that is provided by versions_page.dll
If these changes make it worse, you can revert them from safe mode with command prompt that doesn't use explorer.
If you guys at Acronis need a debugger/tester for your stuff, call me.
Betas of products are normally advertised in their respective forums with a link on where to sign up.
I know I've posted this in another thread, but are you overclocking your PC. this could cause TI to misbehave.
Look, I know you are trying to help, and I know I posted a low-down jibe, but this is very frustrating when using a product that is suppose to inspire confidence.
There is no overclocking at all involved here, the system is IDLE.
See the attached image.
Whenever I mount a TIB from ATI2011 and then restart, I get leftover file crud in C:\Windows.
For example. I mount a TIB with 4 partitions. Then I restart. After the restart these new files are in C:\Windows (attached)
I am going to revert back to ATI 2011.
It just works.
I've had it with ATI 2013.
>It really look like the problem is in Acronis True Image 2013<
It really does! Apart from the different constellations ( Software/Hardware) the same problems do come up only with installed TIH2013.
And for normal users this product is NOT usable! How can a normal user use all these workarounds?
And I agree with this
>I'd like the ATI installer to include an options/configuration screen, on which users could select which components to install and/or to run.<
I have reverted to ATI 2012
>I call such purchases 'Education Expenses'<
So do I!!! Before this trouble I was a hardened fan of Acronis - so I do hope, Acronis will come up with really working better product!
By the way: on my system, WindowsSearch/Indexing is deactivared due to using a SSD as SystemHDD.
...By the way: on my system, WindowsSearch/Indexing is deactivared due to using a SSD as SystemHDD.
Windows Search is a fragmentation horror - by all means get it off your SSD.
I redirect it to a different drive (a scratch partition).
>by all means get it off your SSD<
well - I did - I deactivated!!! it as soon as I got the SSD - together with some other things - have been reading a lot about SSDs before installing it.
I had this issue too seems to have gone away for now after too many tweaks to know which fixed it unfortunately.
Look, I know you are trying to help, and I know I posted a low-down jibe, but this is very frustrating when using a product that is suppose to inspire confidence.
There is no overclocking at all involved here, the system is IDLE.
See the attached image.
Let me clarify this.
My system is overclocked.
But the idle condition shows a CPU speed of under 2GHz so I mean to say that the system is not running over the base clock frequency of the core.
For those who have seen this happen - do you have Raxco PerfectDisk installed?
That might put in file system hooks that interfere with ATI 2013.
I neglected to disable this in my tests and I no longer have ATI 2013 installed to see if it makes a difference.
I'm hopeful this problem gets fixed soon, from what I've seen of ATI 2013 it looks like a much improved product.
I know I've posted my share of bile against this software, but Acronis software has save me many times and when you get it working it seems very robust. Any software that hooks so deeply into a system is bound to show difficulties in some system setups.
>do you have Raxco PerfectDisk installed< no such thing.......
krabbe,
I use this product. It can be found here: http://www.raxco.com/
For German Users - there is a workaround in German Language out now - here
http://www.wintotal.de/tipparchiv/?id=2004&Itemid=200&option=com_yad2t
I will try that next.......
I hope that fixes it, but I translated that page to English and what I read did not look like it applied, but who knows, let us know if it works for you.
well - it did in part - I then could no longer install 2013!!!
See this please
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/35169#comment-109128
Update: have given up
Made WindowsRestore and everything is working fine and as it should - with TIH2012!
Did you check the earlier thread (http://forum.acronis.com/forum/35064) and try using ShellExView to disable the Acronis shell extensions?
No, I didn't know about that (the Shell extensions fix).
Currently, I am running ATI 2011 and waiting for some official response. I sent in a trouble report.
It sounds, though, that that might be the answer, for now.
But I'd rather do some sort of standard installation if possible.
It doesn't explain why my Explorer Shell is more sensitive than anyone else's, so there may be deeper issues.
I don't think that will address the mount followed by unmount debris left behind, but maybe that, too.
@arachnaut : your Explorer Shell is not more sensitive than mine! And I do not overclock a bit.
I am at a loss to understand it - but 2 of my friends did not have any problems with TIH2013 from the start - and I have lots and lots of trouble with it.
I just have a quite normal notebook - Samsung RF711 - this
http://geizhals.at/eu/634829 with a Samsung SSD - this
http://geizhals.at/eu/682613 as systemHDD plus a samsung 1TB HDD 5400RPM for Data.
Os is Win7Profx64 SP1 , eset NOD AV current version, DiskDirector11 ( 2343) - all running nicely with TIH2012. It really does - until I try to install/work with installed TIH2013! I get the Com Surrogate mistake every few seconds clicking files or folders, freezes, blank icons, blank computer-window with green search never stopping......I have tried all workarounds I found/have been given here - nothing works - I have given up!
The biggest difference I see between my system and those of my friends is the AV-scanner and some hardware.
Which AV-scanner do you use?
I don't run any antivirus scanner, not even Security Essentials. I do run Windows built-in Firewall, but that's about it. I generally turn off any network-related activity in software if I can.
I don't think I have any unusual shell-related installations - Winzip, Winrar, Unlocker, UltraEdit and UltraCompare, and Hashtab. Those are about the only Shell extensions and Folder extensions that I see outside of the general Windows built-ins.
I have many services disabled, generally I run a very minimal, streamlined system. My main concern is interrupt latency because of the audio work I do. A lot of the motherboard features are disabled (Bluetooth, audio, serial ports, etc.) so I have several more free interrupts.
I have some down-level graphics drivers because the newer ones increased the DPC latency quite a bit and I don't need much graphics support for what I do.
I've never had any troubles with ATI 2011 or Disk Directory 11. Did have trouble now and then on some Acronis installs, and as I mentioned, I could not get ATI 2012 to co-operate with me so I skipped that version.
Occasionally I run overnight stress tests, memory diagnostics and so on to see if there is any hardware degradation, and every month or so I create an MD5 checksum database of every file on every drive to check for disk data errors.
I only run Acronis to backup partitions fully and only occasionally when I know enough had changed and the system is stable - that would probably be monthly or bi-monthly. I do run Restrospect incremental backups every night. I use that for file recovery, Acronis is for disaster recovery.
My hardware has been unchanged since I built this system a year ago and it has not had any hiccups. I never turn my system off, if I can help it, except to clean the fans every now and then, but I restart a few times a week and run a chkdsk on the drives and go through maintenance procedures.
I do a lot of software installations because I beta-test for several audio products. So I need to be very vigilant about installations. Recently I have been getting new installations several times a day. I run the installer with all the options enabled - it's one of the Local Configuration internal settings - and I always look over the installation logs. Occasionally I will use ORCA to look over installers if I see some problems. Most of the audio things I use and test are 64-bit applications.
I run Raxco Perfect Disk each night and Raxco Perfect Registry after every install and uninstall (I don't automatically fix anything it finds, I check each discrepancy it reports). I use Revo Uninstaller Pro on every installation and uninstallation.
Tiny Watcher helps me discover what is new on a restart. It is very useful.
I used to use the machine state verifier in the Windows 7 Certification Suite for logo programs - but that didn't co-operate with some of the audio software I need to use so I removed it and its filter.
This methodology works for me and the things I do.
I also tend to write a lot... doesn't go over well with the Tweet generation.
Well - we do have some ( not nearly all) things in common - beside a sensitive Explorer Shell ;-)
( HashTab, winrar, unlocker to name some)
I had to deactivate the running Windows-Firewall to be able to install 2013 after cleaning the system....
( I also have to give the FW a special yes, when making a system report - even with 2012!)
Somewhere I have read that there is a possible problem with NOD32 and 2013, when I can find where I saw that, I'll post a reference.
Found it!! http://kb.acronis.com/content/34906
OK, it does refer to Mounting, but there might be other problems. 2012 had a problem with the free version of Avira A/V, I'm assuming it has been solved in 2013, no one reported a problem during the beta, but then perhaps no one was using it.
Now that is interesting........
I did not even get near mounting because of all the trouble I had............but this information still is interesting.
And I will rather keep my NOD-AV + TIH2012 than trying to get the 2013 to run without disturbing my system.
Just to link these two things together take a look at my post here:
Hello Everyone,
Thank you for your posts and your help.
I was wondering if anyone submitted a support request for this issue. I have gone through this thread and the one referred to by RayG and I can see that there were no case submissions made.
We would really appreciate if you could get in touch with our Support team so that we can provide you with assistance.
Please let me know if you have additional questions.
Thank you.
I posted a support case [01668555] on Sep 3, but the respondent wanted me to start uninstalling stuff and I told them I will wait for a new release of Acronis and try again when it comes out.
I have had recent emails from ACRONIS support asking me to change my system in an attempt to get their software to work.
To me this is an odd attitude.
My system currently works fine with lots of stuff installed, including Acronis True Image 2011 and Disk Directory Suite.
It's only ATI 2013 that doesn't work. So to me the odds are that IT is 'broken' not my system.
I'll continue to wait for the next release of ATI 2013 and try again, but I am not going to change anything else on my system.
I base this on the fact that older installs of True Image Home have ranged from difficult to disastrous.
In fact, I gave up totally on ATI 2012 - it was a dismal failure on my system.
Jim,
I understand from your previous posts that you run a system with several default services disabled. Could you share the list of services you disabled, in particular the Windows ones?
Also, disabling the Acronis services might result in issues with ATI 2012 and 2013. From this forum, your mileage will vary.
From my experience: disabling the nonstop backup service Acronis services in 2011 was not an issue. Disabling the same service in 2012 and 2013 can create issues when you open "My Computer". I have not been able to reproduce the issue, but I suspect it happens when certain USB devices are attached. Putting the service on manual does solve the issue.
Disabling the sync issue does not seems to pertubate ATI. Some users say they had to put it in manual start. What happens though is that the service starts when ATI's UI starts, they say.
A screenshot of my disabled services is included in the two image attachments.
OK. I didn't see anything suspect. You might want to try to enable the non-stop backup service, and try with manual start or automatic start, to see if that makes any difference.
The other basic troubleshooting would be to uninstall ATI, use the clean up utility, and reinstall.
Hello all,
Thank you for your posts.
arachnaut,
I am sending a FTP link to you via Private Messages, please upload the Proc Explorer dump file and Acronis system report obtained from the Help section.
Thank you.
Hello all,
arachnaut,
I've found another thread in regards to the described issue.
As far as I understood, you have disabled Sync Agent. Am I correct?
Thank you.
Oleg,
I don't have ATI 2013 installed anymore. I will try another installation when Acronis releases a new version of ATI 2013, but not until then.
When I had it installed, I disabled the Sync Agent and Non-stop backup services, but not the Scheduler Helper.
arachnaut,
Thank you for the update.
We failed to reproduce the issue in our test lab. We will try to find the reason of the issue in another way.
Thank you.
Hello Oleg, you could ask the other people who had this problem, maybe they will help.
I had installed ATI 2013 twice with the same results. Each time I reverted to my previous image backup containing ATI 2011.
Then I tried to install it a third time and I got a Blue Screen STOP bugcheck. I don't want to try this again.
Previous to these installs I uninstalled ATI 2011 and went through the cleanup process.
When this happens, the Explorer shell becomes unusable, so it is unlikely anyone will do test this willingly. I'm sorry I can't help.
I did post a WINDBG dump during the hang - it has a full memory image.
Don't forget that this happens even if I boot in Safe Mode with a minimal shell. So that leaves out a lot of issues.
arachnaut,
Thank you for your response.
I see only the .txt file attached, actually, it will be nice if we can analyze the entire dump file.
Could it be, that the file was saved at your system accidentally? Otherwise, we should find somebody else.
Thank you.
I no longer have the dump files or information about ATI 2013. I had posted them a while back and had them on my FTP site. But they took up a lot of space so I deleted them.
Thanks a lot for cooperation, Jim.
We will give the issue a closer investigation.
Best wishes,
I think the dumps were posted on a thread that I asked to get deleted. I was getting very frustrated and I posted a few things I regretted, so I asked that the thread be deleted in the last post in it. It looks like it got deleted. It had dump files, Acronis reports, install logs, event lists, lots of stuff. That was a few weeks ago. I no longer have that information.
Oleg,
I found all the old files in a backup image and I extracted them.
I am currently uploading them to the FTP location you sent to me. It will finish in an estimate of about 10 minutes from now if all goes well.
The file is a ZIP archive of several files, folders, zip and rar archives.
Inside the zip is a !ReadMe!.txt that contains this info about the files in the archive - I attached it here.