Acronis 2011 Clone Problem with Windows 7 - Blank Screen after Windows login "Welcome" Screen completes
Hi, new to the forum. I did some searching before starting a new thread but didn't see an exact thread that described this cloning symptom that I've encountered.
Background & user info:
I'm running Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit OS on 2 PC's: Desktop PC & Toshiba Laptop PC. My Desktop PC is custom-built with an Asus PRO P7P55D-E MotherBd and an Intel Intel i5 650 Dual Core 3.20 GHz Processor.
My Laptop is a Toshiba Model Satellite L655-S5168 . The Intel Processor is almost identical to my Desktop PC.
I've been using Acronis 2011 for about a year. My current 2011 version is "Update 3 Build 6942" . I'm a basic Acronis user, having been using 2 features in the software package, 1) Cloning 2) Automatic unattended specific file backups to an external HDD. The file backup utility is working perfectly.
I've been using the "Clone" utility since about a year ago, November 2011, with sucessful results with both of my PC's until recently when I've been seeing a couple of issues after cloning my HDD to a spare HDD.
I use the "Automatic" clone method, not selecting any custom options. I clone both PC HDD's every 2 months. I first noticed cloning issues after cloning my Desktop HDD in September.
After cloning, I always test my new cloned HDD by booting up, running a few programs, etc, to insure that I have a working cloned HDD copy for future needs.
Here is the symptom of the problem:
When I cloned my Desktop HDD in September, I installed my cloned HDD to boot up, insure that it's working good, etc.
When I started Windows, I was able to log in and the "Welcome" screen appeared. I then noticed that it was taking a longer time than normal for the "Welcome" screen to complete. When it completed, my Monitor goes blank, no Desktop Icon screen appearing, etc.
This is the wierd part:
I have been able to do a "fix" (unknown why this works) by restarting into Windows "Safe" mode. Windows Safe Mode boots up ok and I see the Desktop Icons as normal. I then restart, and I am able to boot up normal Windows ok, Desktop Icons appears, etc.
Laptop: When I cloned yesterday (Nov 1), I encountered the same Windows blank screen issue as seen when I clone my Desktop HDD. However, the "fix" that's worked on my Desktop PC (booting into "Safe" mode, then restarting) doesn't fix my cloned Laptop HDD. The Windows screen remains blank after seeing the "Welcome" screen complete.
I've tried going into my Laptop BIOS and auto-detecting, etc, but that doesn't fix this problem.
Has anyone seen this issue with their PC's after cloning?
I have cloned hard drives both ways, but the most reliable cloning results from having the target drive in the laptop.
Scoop:
Some laptops, notably those made by Lenovo, use a nonstandard BIOS geometry where the number of heads is reported as 240. Today, most disks are reported by the PC BIOS as having 255 heads. If you attach a disk to an external USB port its geometry will be reported as 255 heads when the laptop may be expecting something different. So the safest way to clone is to always have the target disk in its intended location where the BIOS will report it as having the expected number of heads.
When you do your cloning do you ever have both the source and target disks attached while booting up? That is one way to trigger the symptom that you are seeing (Windows will see two disks with the same disk signature and will change one of them, thus invalidating the drive letter assignments in the registry of the changed disk).
James, Mark
Thanks for the posts.
I guess it's curious to me that these problems arose afer cloning a few time without seeing the issues appear with the cloned HDD's.
I have a question as to how to clone with the target HDD installed in a Laptop. Do I have to make an Acronis "boot" disc to do that or can I load my Acronis 2011 disc and select a 'Clone' option that will allow me to run the cloning utility from the disc itself (with the 'Target' HDD installed inside the Laptop)?
Mark,
Here's how I've been cloning since last November:
Desktop: I have 2 Sata "Hot Swap" racks installed in my Tower. When I clone, I plug in my Target HDD in one of my slots. Then I restart Windows and clone with my Source HDD in its original slot and the Target HDD in the 2nd slot.
Up until the cloning that I did in Sept, it had worked without problems.
I always disconnect one of the 2 HDD's before booting up either PC. I usually leave the newly-cloned HDD installed to boot up and do a quick-test to verify that the cloning process worked ok and that I have a known good spare HDD.
Laptop: I've always cloned contrary to the recommended way, with my Source HDD in the Laptop and the Target HDD in the USB/Sata Enclosure. Until this latest cloning, that had worked without problems.
I didn't mention another symptom that I saw, along with the Windows "Welcome" screen issue. When I tried to clone my Laptop HDD, I was also seeing a "Disk Error, cannot locate" error. That error occurred, I believe, in Step 3 of the Clone Utility program, before the main cloning step began. After I restarted the Laptop a couple of times, I was able to get past the "Disk Error" issue.
I've not seen the above error when cloning on my Desktop PC.
From reading you guy's posts, my guess is that I was lucky with my first couple of cloning's with the Laptop (using the "Source" HDD in the Enclosure vs installing it in the Laptop).
The strange part of this all to me, is that I also saw the Windows "Welcome" screen problem when I cloned my Desktop HDD. That problem was identical to what I saw when I tested the cloned HDD after cloning my Laptop PC.
Scoop:
To answer your question, yes, you can either make an Acronis recovery CD or if you purchased a retail CD then it is bootable and can be used.
If you've been able to successfully clone without putting the target disk in the intended final location then you probably don't have the BIOS disk geometry issue, and you should still be able to clone the way you always have. The advice to clone the other way is generalized advice and is required on machines with nonstandard BIOS geometry but not mandatory on machines with 255 head geometry. But in works on both, so it's the easiest way to describe the procedure without getting too technical.
At this point I don't have an explanation for the problem that you saw, but it sure sounds like the disk signature issue where Windows saw two disks with identical disk signatures at boot time and changed one of them. To avoid this you cannot ever have both the source and the cloned disk present when Windows boots. So in that respect, it is easier to avoid this issue if you do the cloning from the Recovery CD while Windows is shut down.
Mark,
I had a "light-bulb" moment here :). Perhaps this is the reason that I'm seeing the problem after cloning:
When I clone, I've always restarted in Windows after the Cloning step is complete. In other words, here's what I have been doing:
- Start the Clone utility in Acronis
- Acronis begins the multi-step Cloning process (with the dark-background screen, outside of Windows).
- When the Cloning process is complete, it says "Cloning sucessfully completed (or similar verbage). Press any key to restart."
- I then restart my PC, normal Windows boot. At that first restart, my PC does see both HDD's installed.
- Then I shut down the PC, and install the newly-cloned HDD to test it.
Perhaps this is why I've recently encountered the "Welcome" screen/blank screen issue. The strange part to me is that I was able to clone like this for 2-3 times before I noticed the problem.
So I'm guessing that I need to disconnect the newly-cloned HDD before pressing any key (when I'm still in Acronis mode) to resart the PC normally in Windows, to prevent Windows from seeing 2 HDD's simultaneously.
Scoop,
You are right in your assumption.
This is documented here somewhere, but for the life of me, I can't find it now.
This is also the reason that the target drive (the "clone") should be connected in place of the original drive when doing a clone.
When you boot a system up that has two identical drives (same disk signature and drive letter assignments) Windows will make changes to the newly cloned disk on first boot. Then, when you move the clone to the boot location, you get the issues you have described.
James, thanks for the info.
I think I was thinking that, after the cloning step in Acronis, I was required to press any key and reboot in Windows to complete the cloning process.
So, I'm guessing that, to avoid the future issue, with the way that I currently clone, I need to remove the newly-cloned HDD before pressing any key. I think I didn't do that previously since I had thought that it might be a requirement to fully complete the cloning process.
Once the clone is complete, just turn off the system then make the connection changes.
Why do you Clone? From your description, it sounds as though that's your method for system backup. IMHO, you would be better off doing full disk mode Backups. Not only are there many advantages to backups over clone, there'd be no risk of the boot problems that you've encountered. Backup is safer and better than clone.
Mark,
Thanks again. I will do that the next time I clone.
Tuttle,
I run another backup routine using Acronis but not full disk backups. I like the cloning idea so that I have, on the shelf, a plug-and-play, bootable HDD in case of unforseen issues, ie, trojan, virus, etc. It's also convenient, for me, to have a "near-Raid" replacement HDD. I used to run Raid 1 on my PC but I ran into problems with the array and I wasn't that knowledable with Raid (recovering the array, etc) so I disabled Raid 1 and now I clone about once every 3 months with my Desktop and Laptop.
I might look into the Full Disk Mode as that sounds like a good idea to do that.
Right now, I'm using the Acronis backup twice a day, 2:30am and 12pm, for certain files that I change daily, ie, my Outlook "pst" data file, Quicken data file, and I also backup all of my IE "favorite" bookmarks, along with a couple of Excel files that get edited daily.
That way, my "must-have" files are always safely available with the (almost real-time) most recent versions. I'm using one of those Seagate "Goflex" portable USB HDD's for the twice-daily backups.
I also run a hotkey script, where I can copy these same files, after editing, or access, to my Laptop thru my home network.
I like the cloning idea so that I have, on the shelf, a plug-and-play, bootable HDD in case of unforseen issues, ie, trojan, virus, etc.
Backup would accomplish the same thing, with the added benefit that you could store multiple full system backups on a single drive, so you could choose which date you wanted to restore. The only benefit of Clone is that it saves a single step, the Restore step. Once a full disk image is restored, the result is exactly the same as a clone, but with greater flexibility, greater redundancy, and less chance of catastrophe.
Tuttle,
Thanks for the info. I haven't used the full disk Backup funtion in Acronis yet. I might try that to see how it works for me.
Regarding the "Restore" step, can you tell me what this actually does? Does is restore the backup (full disk backup HDD) to a bootable plug-and-play HDD?
Does the Acronis "full disk backup" utility also copy the full OS over to the backup HDD?
The other reason that I began using the "Clone" utility was that I wanted to clone the OS (along with any user-custom changes that I infrequently make changes to Windows, ie color schemes, personalization settings, Registry settings) to the cloned HDD so that when I plug in the cloned HDD, it's an exact copy of the original HDD that I have been running in my PC.
Mark,
I will soon be trying the Clone method that is recommended in Acronis.
To review and check me, here's what I think I'll need to do (Laptop PC):
- Shut down PC using normal Windows "shutdown" mode.
- Remove my "Source" HDD from Laptop PC and install it in my external ESata/USB Enclosure. Install the "Target" HDD in my Latop.
- Restart PC, and enter Bios mode before starting Windows to change my "boot order" priority list. The reason that I include this step is that, if I load my Acronis retail CD into my CD Drive before shutting down Windows, my PC will still boot up on my "C" HDD and not the CD. If there's another way to accomplish this without changing the Bios boot order list, let me know.
- Exit Bios. My PC will then boot to the CD Drive and the Acronis disk.
- Select "Clone" from the "Tools" menu, as normal and start the Cloning dialog as I've been doing the past year.
- When the clone process is compete and I see the "Press any Key to Restart", do not press a key, and shut down the PC (power-off to prevent Windows from seeing the 2 HDD's at the same time when next I boot up into Windows).
- Remove my Source HDD from Latop (unplug USB Enclosure cable).
- Power up the PC, enter Bios, change the Boot order back to "C" Drive as the 1st boot device. Exit Bios, and it should boot up in Windows on the newly-cloned HDD as normal.
Do I have the steps correct?
Restore is the process of restoring a backup image to a drive. It could be to the original drive, such as to "roll back" after a malware infection. It could be to a brand new drive, if the original drive failed. The result is the same as Clone, but much safer and with added benefits.
Yes, it would include the OS. A full disk backup, selecting the disk checkbox rather than individual partitions, includes everything. It includes everything that a clone would include.
Everything you want to do with Clone can be accomplished with a full disk mode Backup. But, Backup would allow you store multiple full system backups on a single drive. Backup is safer than Clone, because if you make a mistake when cloning you can end up with no bootable drive at all.
Your steps are way too complicated and risky for my taste. Use full disk mode Backup instead.
Check out the many user guides and tutorials in the left margin of this forum, particularly Getting Started and Grover's True Image Guides which are illustrated with step-by-step screenshots.
Scoop:
You have the steps correct. With some PCs you can press a function key right after power-up to select the boot device without going into BIOS setup; for example, it's F12 on my Lenovo laptop.
I do agree with Tuttle that Disk Backup (Imaging) is more versatile than clone for the reasons that he has stated. But the process that you outlined SHOULD work.
Tuttle,
Thanks again. I think I'll try your Restore approach. I'll read up on the Tudor-instructions to get familiar with how to do it.
I guess I was lucky to have been able to clone in the past without problems and had hoped that the Clone method would be easier and more reliable. It's the main reason that I bought Acronis but as you said, I can accomplish my goal without using the Clone tool.
I'm assuming that, with the Restore method, there's no issue with Windows seeing identical HDD's simultaneously, as with the Clone method?
Mark,
If you read my previous post, I'd still like to see if I have the right understanding of the proper Clone steps to avoid the "simultaneous-HDD-Windows" issue.
One thing I can't understand, is that there was a reason that I was able to clone several times during the past year, before the Windows "Welcome" / blank-screen problem appeared.
[edit] Mark, I just saw your previous post. Thanks. I've also seen that "boot priority menu" appear on my Toshiba Laptop, F12.
Also, James, Tuttle: Thanks for your help here. Have a good weekend.
- Jeff / Dallas, TX (but I make no claims to being a "Cowboys" fan ;) )
I'm assuming that, with the Restore method, there's no issue with Windows seeing identical HDD's simultaneously, as with the Clone method?
You're still not understanding how it works. You're still thinking in "Clone" mode. :)
With a Backup, an identical disk is not created. Backup takes a snapshot of your drive and writes it to a compressed .tib image file. You can have multiple .tib image files on a single drive, and they don't trigger any issues in Windows because they aren't live OSs, they're compressed archives. It's not until you Restore that you create a live disk.
^ Ok, I think I'm starting to understand it better. Thanks.
So, the OS (along with any OS changes/customizing) is also compresssed, and the "Restore" function puts the OS onto the Backup HDD, along with the HDD snapshot files/folders/programs, etc?
As I keep saying, yes it includes the OS. Please, read some of the beginner guides to learn how ATI works.
Scoop:
You have the steps correct. With some PCs you can press a function key right after power-up to select the boot device without going into BIOS setup; for example, it's F12 on my Lenovo laptop.
I do agree with Tuttle that Disk Backup (Imaging) is more versatile than clone for the reasons that he has stated. But the process that you outlined SHOULD work.
Mark,
I used the Clone procedure as outlined in the previous steps and it worked great. Thanks again for the help.
Cloning to a different drive protects against total loss of drive in a hardware sense.