Backup will do the job?

Normal compression is about 60-65% of USED space.

True Image excels in what you are wanting to do.

Start by doing some research. Click on the link inside my signature below. Check items 7A (both parts), 7B & 7C plus all of #2.

Also suggest you read this posting.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/8963#comment-22653

Thanks, Grover, for the info.

Actually I have read your guides before I posted the question here. I was convinced by your recommendation to use HD and enclosure rather than commercial "external HD".

Yet I'm not clear whether doing backup (vs. cloning) will allow me to restore my computer, including OS and apps. If restoring from a backup can do it why even bother with cloning (other than when the new HD is larger then the cloned HD)?

I'd like to back up 3 computers with TI and use a large HD for this purpose. Should I use 3 partitions?

Will I be able to restore (including OS and apps) from 3 files (on the same external HD) 3 different computers?

The link you provided took me to a page where you wrote "2. The new blank target disk should be installed in its intended boot position" - can you explain? I plan on backing up by hooking up (USB) a new blank HD in enclosure, will it be OK?

Thanks for your help and patience.

Jojo wrote:

Yet I'm not clear whether doing backup (vs. cloning) will allow me to restore my computer, including OS and apps. If restoring from a backup can do it why even bother with cloning (other than when the new HD is larger then the cloned HD)?

Cloning is not a required procedure when it comes to upgrading to a larger drive. If you have a disk option backup, then a restoration can achieve the same goal. Yesterday, I used such a backup (disk option backup) to recover my grandsons computer. I restored a prior full disk backup (2 partitions) from a 200GB SATA drive to a 120GB Sata drive (XP using Version 9). During some testing, I also restored the same backup using TI 2010 to an IDE drive. So the answer is a resounding yes. I have done it numerous times. Backup restoration is a viable means of moving to another smaller; same size; or larger drive. The key to success is having a full and complete backup otherwise known as a disk option backup. This is illustrated in my guides.

I'd like to back up 3 computers with TI and use a large HD for this purpose. Should I use 3 partitions?

One partition will suffice very well. All you need to do is to have separate folders for each computer. Inside each folder, you then will have additional folders for each complete backup set.

Will I be able to restore (including OS and apps) from 3 files (on the same external HD) 3 different computers?

Yes. If you want to restore computer A, boot into the TI Rescue CD and browse to the external and locate the folder for computer A and then further in locate the backup file (*.tib archive) for that specific computer. Then you perform the restore procedure using the prior full disk backup created for that computer.

The link you provided took me to a page where you wrote "2. The new blank target disk should be installed in its intended boot position" - can you explain? I plan on backing up restoring by hooking up (USB) a new blank HD in enclosure, will it be OK?

"The intended boot position" is another way of saying "Remove the original drive and place a new or another drive in its place" The preceding sentence is the preferred procedure and is the only procedure which works on a IBM or Lenova laptop and there may be others. Some users have reported some successes of restoring a backup with the new drive being temporarily placed in an enclosure. Others have reported the same as failing or not booting. Different hardware may produce different results. The procedures that I recommend are those which gives you the best chance of success with the fewest problem--but it may not be the only method. The only way you will know for sure is to perform actual tests. Testing to another test drive is an absolute must. It is the only way you can prove to yourself that your procedure will work. Far too many people do their backups but never perform a restore until a crisis arises. Then, if it fails, they are at a loss as to how to recover if a recover is even possible. Go back and reread the prior link. I am NOT saying that a one partition backup can do all this but I am saying that if you check mark the disk option so any and all partitions are included in the backup, then that backup can be used to duplicate that disk on another disk--such as a new larger disk. Do the testing. Create the backups and then do some restores. Put the test disk in the computer to test whether it boots, etc. The experience can give you a lot of re-assurance or give you a chance to work out the bugs when there is no crisis.

Note: Most of your restores will not be where a new disk is involved. You may simply want to restore/overlay your current partition with a prior backup. A disk option backup will work here as well but a backup of only the single partition will also suffice when restoring only that partition.

Hi Grover,

They don't pay you enough... :-)

Fact of the matter I want to upgrade my daughter's HD (Lenovo) to a larger one, so I guess I need to use her own laptop and connect a large HD to it. Boot with TI Rescue CD and backup her C drive (or do I need to copy the hidden drive too, where factory setting is stored?). Then I take the larger HD I bought for this purpose and place it in the Lenovo, connect to it to the HD with the backup file and restore to the new blank HD in the laptop.

Did I get it right?

Or, in this case, is it better (saving one step) to do disk cloning, from her laptop directly to the new and larger HD?

What version of True Image is being discussed and what OS is on the Lenova?

(or do I need to copy the hidden drive too, where factory setting is stored?).

I want you to answer your own question. Hasn't my whole thread been about the need for a disk option backup in preparation for a move to a larger disk. And doesn't a disk option backup mean that all partitions are included. So the only answer to your question has to be a yes, it hidden drive must be included. Both my backup guide and the restore guide both shows a picture of a disk option backup. My guides also references looking at the drive via the Windows Disk Management graphical view. Where is the C drive located? Is it the last on the right side of the picture. Post the picture if necessary.

You cannot get the experience you need via my posts. At least do some practice. Open TrueImage and simulate all your procedures up to the point where you must choose whether to Proceed or Cancel. Choose the cancel option since you are only practicing. Danger! Clicking proceed accidentally can cause untold grief. Be careful!

When performing a restore, you must choose whether to perform a disk option restore or a "Partition Restore with Resize". This needs to be discussed in more detail but there is no time now until tomorrow night. I need to see your answers to my questions before I can add further.

I use TI 2010 and the Lenovo runs Win Vista.

And the answers to the other two?

My daughter, along with her laptop ,will come to visit me only a week and a half from now, so I can't provide the answers now.

In any case, let's say I back up all partitions of my own laptop (HP, Vista) to an external HD. How can I test it - place a new blank HD in my laptop and restore? Is there another way? (if not it means I have to buy additional HD to test the new target).

Another question - my GF would like to upgrade from Vista to Win 7. Is it possible to back up all her partitions and then restore only the apps and settings (obviously she doesn't want to restore back to Vista). It sound far fetched to me, but maybe there is a way...

Thanks.

JoJo wrote:

In any case, let's say I back up all partitions of my own laptop (HP, Vista)to an external HD. How can I test it - place a new blank HD in my laptop and restore? Is there another way? (if not it means I have to buy additional HD to test the new target).

Your procedure is correct for a full test. A lessor test would be to restore one of your partitions. An even lessor test would be to restore a file. But, you are looking for the ability to duplicate your drive in case of an emergency so the only real test is to do real test. You have a week. Why not test using the disk set aside for your daughter?. Why not use your own backup and restore as if your own hard drive needed replacement.

Another question - my GF would like to upgrade from Vista to Win 7. Is it possible to back up all her partitions and then restore only the apps and settings (obviously she doesn't want to restore back to Vista). It sound far fetched to me, but maybe there is a way.

It is not possible with TrueImage but check the link below. Whether the result is acceptable might be another issue. Windows 7 is so different, it is hard to imagine that the transfer could be without problems.
"Belkin's Easy Transfer Cable for windows 7"
http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=506029

----------------------
Part-1: It might be prudent to download the TrueImage iso file from your own Acronis registration page and burn the ISO to a CD so you would have two different TrueImage Rescue CD's. There has been so many postings lately about disk drives not seen that I'm thinking this is just a nice free safety precaution to have. If you do this, you should boot from it and test that it sees all your hardware. To burn a iso file, you can use Nero or Roxio Easy Creator or IMGBurn which is free and very very easy to use.

Part-2: When you restore either your own or your daugher's replacement disk, it will involve using the "Partition Wizard" utility CD available free from the link below. The program is listed just below the middle of the page. The download is an ISO file which needs to be burnt to CD. It then becomes a bootable CD and one of its many uses is it can be used to expand partition sizes using unallocated space and it is this function that I am asking that you download it. The Windows version is also nice but we need the bootable CD for our use here.
"..Free Download Bootable CD Now!"
http://www.partitionwizard.com/download.html

Part-3: Restore procedures to a new/larger disk using a prior Disk option backup
which includes all partitions including any hidden or diagnostic partitions.

a. Remove original drive and install the blank target disk in its place.
b. Bootup using the TI Rescue CD and perform the Disk option restore of a prior disk option backup-- being extremely careful to choose the correct destination disk.

http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2010/01/7523/backup_…

http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2010/01/7523/restore…

c. After restoration, shut down and disconnect all drives except for the new boot drive. Reboot.
d. Confirm that the new drive boots and is problem free and then Shutdown.
----Note: Restoring a disk option backup will result in the new target disk being exactly the same size as the original disk with the excess space assigned as un-allocated space. The Partition Wizard bootable CD will be used next by you to expand/assign the un-allocated space to your largest partition which is the C system partition.

e. Shutdown and boot into the Partition Wizard bootable CD.
f. Expand the system partition to include all the unallocated space.
Note: You make the changes and then must apply the changes before the changes become effective. All done as one procedure.
g. Upon completion of partition re sizing. Remove the CD and shutdown.
h. Reboot into Windows and you should have a new full size hard drive which is identical as the old except the system partition now has more free space capacity.

Part-4: I chose the above procedures for you because I believed them to be the most trouble free and the easiest for you to implement. Yes, there are other restore procedures possible to achieve the same goal such as:
a. Creating the new expanded partitions in advance and using TrueImage to restore the data.---- I did not choose this method because it still involves you (inside TrueImage) making sure the partition sizes are correct for the restore and that the correct partition is active and the correct file type is selected. This option has a greater chance of operator error.
b. Or, using the Partition Restore with Resize method as shown in my guide "Upgrading to a larger drive". ----I did not choose this for the same reason stated in item 4a.
c. The advantage in performing a disk option restore is that it has the fewest options(which is an advantage) and Partition Wizard is very easy to use.
d. If you don't like the results, you can always start over. However, if you should start over, it is suggested that you use TrueImage Add Disk feature and remove any existing partitions from the now used new drive before beginning the restore procedure again.

A success story.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/6939

Thank you, Grover, for your very informative reply.

Yesterday I've received my 750GB HD and docking station (Thermaltake) and I went to work. I made a Rescue CD which I used to make the back up. I've chosen all partitions (C, D) and the backup operation started. I started the backup and went to bed.

This morning I turned on the computer and checked the external HD and to my surprise I see that the backup (tib file) is 227GB large, while the C drive in my laptop is 287GB large but only 157GB used and the D used size is 9GB out of 10GB. I didn't choose sector by sector so I've expected the tib file to be smaller than the combined size of used spaces on C and D drives. Surely I didn't expect a tib file to be larger than the used spaces on C and D drives and I'm baffled by this fact.

By the way, I forgot to validate the backup file and I wonder if I still can do it, after it was created, and if so - how do I do it now?

Thanks.

Even if you did not select sector-by-sector, if TrueImage determines that there might be problems with the drive, it will revert to sector-by-sector anyway. I would suggest that you perform a "chkdsk c: /r" (on your system disk) from the command line or your normal file check with fix errors, etc.

The easiest way to validate the backup is to right click on the *.tib file and look the your right click options. One of them mostly is option titled "Archive". Click on the "archive" option, there 3 sub choices which are
Mount or Recover or Validate. Choose the validate and complete the remainder of task. Use of the Recover options from this menu is also one of the quickest ways to initiate a recovery via restoring a backup archive.

I'm a bit confused - if the program did sector by sector (maybe the C drive is problematic) then I think it should be either the exact capacity of the partitions (C-287GB plus D-10GB for total of 297GB) or only the used space (C-157GB plus D-9GB for total of 166GB). I don't understand how the tib file ended 227GB in size which is not here nor there.

I did what you suggested and chose Validate from the Archive menu but I don't see any indication that it's working - no pop window or a message alerting me to the fact that the process begun. Am I supposed to see anything?

Thanks.

I have no explanation for the size issue. Did you create a new task and point the archive location to be the external drive? Have you confirmed that the *.tib file actually resides on the new disk in the enclosure. The compressed size for your used space should be about 60-70% of used space but that can vary depending upon the type of files included in the backup. Audio and video files will not compress very much farther than what the size already is.

Not related to the above, but I would recommend that you use Windows Disk Management and re-assign a drive letter to the enclosure disk with a letter such as x or y or z, etc. Also include a meaningful name. This will keep the drive letter constant even when other usb or esata devices are mounted.

As for validation.
Using the right click option, once you select the file and choose validate, what should happen
1. TIH task window opens to the Scheduling screen and the "do not schedule" is pre-chosen.
2. User clicks the Proceed button and the Window closes and you will find TI in the system tray,
where you can hover your mouse over the TI icon and see the percentage of completion as it changes.
3. Once the validation is complete, the icon removes itself from the system tray with no indication of anything.
4. User must open the TrueImage program and look at the task/log file to see if successful or read the error messages if it fails. Not very user friendly! You should at least get a completion window but you do not--or at least I did not.

I ran CHKDSK on my C drive and it fixed a few things, so I'll try later tonight to create a new tib file in hope to see it shrinked in size. After all, even if TI doesn't compress anything (too many binary files on my drives) it still shouldn't create a file which is larger then both C and D combined. So something is very strange here.

As to validating - are you sure that TI icon is placed in the tray under Vista? When I validated before (as you suggested previously) it didn't show any sign it does anything, other than the external HD was flashing. Now I'm validating again and only indication is the flashing external HD, nothing else. No icon in the tray and no pop up message/window anywhere. However I was able before to mount the tib file and read various files from it. I'm not sure, though, if this is enough to validate the backup file.

I made another backup and this time the tib file was considerably smaller - only 118GB (was 227GB before).

By the way, if backing up the way you recommend works fine for restoring a computer then what's the advantage of cloning HD? When would you recommend on cloning HD?

Item 7D inside my signature index may help. There are advocates of cloning as a backup procedure. It comes down to your personal preferences and how much risk you accept since cloning without a safety backup is a risk.

Boot from the Rescue CD and validate your new backup. The old probably has no use and could be deleted.

After reading (again) your guide I realized that when I created the tib file I left the original (source) HD in place and I copied it (all partitions) to the external HD. I thought that to reverse positions is required only when backing up and restoring specific computers (Lenovo) but now I'm not sure...

I did validate the file, mounted it and accessed various files. Am I safe now?

The best backup is obtained when the master source disk is in its normal operating position and I believe this is what you did.

Any discussion about removing the master source disk is when you want to replace the master source disk with a new disk. Under that procedure, then, yes, you will have the best chance of success in restoration (or cloning) if you remove the master disk and put a new blank disk in its place before completing the restoration or cloning.

I copied it (all partitions) to the external HD.

I am assuming that your using the word "copy" to mean that you used TrueImage to create a backup archive (*.tib) file and it was 118GB in size.

Am I safe now?

Reasonably so but the only real test is to perform a real restore to a new blank disk--which is what you plan to do with your daughters computer.

I'm sooooooooooo disappointed, seems like I can't do it right...

I've bought 2 brand new HD - one 2.5" (500GB) and one 3.5" (750GB). Since then I've tried many times to create a backup (TIB) of my HP laptop or create a clone, with various results but none working. I use your backup guide to the letter, working with TI10 and recovery CD (never trying to back up from within Windows) and yet most of the time I get Backup Failed, at the validation stage. I've formatted the drives, sometimes not quick format but full format, and the results are still disappointing. By the way, sometimes I find that the backup, supposedly is complete, but then I find that it's corrupt when I try to mount it and obviously I can't. Once I've tried to clone directly to the 500GB drive (without reversing places), it supposedly did the job but then when I placed it in the laptop it wasn't bootable.

In short - nothing works, and I have no idea what can be the reason,

Needless to say, I always choose both partitions to be copied (cloned) - C and D - and I validate in the end. As far as I can tell I do it right, and I can't imagine why I fail so miserable. Oh, yeah - once in the very beginning I managed to create a working TIB file and I was able to mount it, but I failed to create a bootable disk from it, and ever since I can't even create one backup, despite lots of formatting, and I'm talking about maybe 7-8 trials.

If you can come up with enlightenment or suggestion I'll be tremendously grateful.

Just to bring us up to date. I am understanding that you are using version 2010 (what build); your laptop is a Lenova (what model) running Vista; and you are backing up to a 750 GB eSata docking station via in a usb connection. Is this correct? If no, please provide corrections.

Your thread covered a lot of possibilities. What is you first current goal? Take it one step at at time.

Since you are working with a Lenova Laptop, your only chance of success is performing a "reverse" restore or "reverse" clone. The new disk must be placed in its intended boot position before a cloning or restore can be begun; and you must boot from the TI REscue CD to perform the procedure. The first backup which was a success could be used as the file to perform your disk options restores. Try using a different usb cable and a different usb port on your laptop and see if that helps. Check your options when booted from the Rescue Cd. As per one of the options, slow the write speed and see if that helps.

Faulty memory can be a cause for bad validation. Check item 27 inside my signature index. If you run the mem test, let it run all night.

Software & hardware used:

TI 10, build 5,055

Trying to backup to 750GB with USB (don't have eStat on my laptop)

The laptop I'm trying either to clone or create a backup for is HP, not Lenova

My goals:

1. To create a backup for the HP

2. To restore (using the the backup) the original HD (320GB) to a new larger (500GB) HD

Is it possible that the USB cable or the USB port is at fault? I thought that since the backup fails only at validation state it indicates that it' not a hardware issue. Nevertheless I'll try now a slower speed and different USB port

My state of mind:

Desperate, borderline suicidal

Ok, I think I have it now. Your laptop is HP, Vista and using V10, 5,055.
(It is your daughter that has TI 2010 and a Lenova vista laptop)

First, I would suggest that you implement the Vista modification shown in signature index below item 7-H 8-H. This is because you are using the older V10.

I would also suggest that you return to your registration page and download the newly listed (but old) ISO file. My registrations only shows 4942 for the latest build. Anyway, Burn the iso to CD to create a new bootable Rescue CD and use it to see if you can validate new or existing backups. I do not know whether the V10 has speed adjustable write options of not but it would be under the backups options. This iso download will be different than the one you created from your installed version.

Correction:
the correct index link is MudCrab's item 8-H

Hi Grover,

I've upgraded to TI2010 build 7,046 and a few weeks ago I've managed to create a clone for my own laptop (HP). This weekend my daughter visited me so I've tried to clone her 100GB (Levono) with my old 320GB drive (form the HP).

I failed miserably.

Should be straightforward process (simpler than creating backup and restoring), no need to mess with partitions, etc, and since I was under pressure (time wise) I chose to go with cloning. Nonetheless, the process failed time after time. I've formatted the old drive, and later I use TI to add the HD to the computer (under Utilities) so it became unformulated and then tried to clone it. Nothing worked, wether it was formatted or not.

Sometime the process starts at step #2 (and it shows there are also 3 and 4 waiting) and sometime it starts at step #3 with 4 and 5 to be followed later). I don't know what it means but it never proceeded beyond the first step (be it 3 or 4) at copying partitions. It always fails in the middle of the first step.

To be clear, I've tried a few times to clone while the target was external but most of the times I chose the reverse positions, where the target (the bigger HD) was installed inside the Levono, fully aware of the fact that Levono is sensitive and spoiled computer, so to speak.

By the way, I used the same Rescue CD which I created with my HP, and I wonder if I need to create a CD for each computer I want to either backup or clone. It doesn't make sense to me but I don't know what else to think of.

Another issue, the Lenovo has the main partition (C) NFTS formatted while the smaller one (no letter assigned to it) is EISA formatted. Once more, I want to believe that it's not a problem, but surely you know better.

Thanks for your help.

JoJo, In response to some of your questions.
1. The Rescue CD created by your installation is generic and is the same if it were created on another computer. In other words, it is NOT machine specific. In a prior response above, I also suggested that you create an additional Rescue CD by downloading the ISO file and burning it to create a different driver Rescue CD. Either the CD created from your installation or the new ISO CD should provide the capability for you to do either your restore or your clone.

2. It is a waste of your time to pre-format the 320GB target drive as it is undone in the next process.
3. The 320GB (298gb unallocated) target drive should be blank and unallocated and as you know, this can be done from inside TrueImage Rescue CD. If you try cloning or restoring and it fails, you will need to repeat the "add disk" procedure after each failure.
4. Place the 320GB target disk in its intended boot position before beginning the procedures. Trying it any another external holder is a waste of your time since it is a Lenova. The smaller source drive can be placed in an external case, etc if you are cloning.

As I understand your goal, you are wanting to duplicate your Vista Lenova Laptop to a larger drive (320GB) using TrueImageHome 2010.

You should be able to accomplish your using via either of these 3 methods:
A.) Disk Clone
B.) Restoring the entire disk (disk option restore)
C.) Partition restore with Resize

Note: both method-A and method-B will cause the new disk to be the same size as the old disk with the excess space assigned as un-allocated space. Use the Partition Wizard boot CD mentioned in post 9, part 3D to Resize/enlarge the partition afterward by assigning the un-allocated space to your normal C-system partition.

Disk clone:
Cloning places your source drive at risk but if you choose to clone, use this link.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/10928#comment-31608

Disk option restore:
All partitions are check marked when choosing what is to be restored. Signature Index item 7-A is a reference

Partition Restore with Resize:
Restore each partition individually. The smaller EISA partition is restored to its original size without size changes. The larger Vista partition is resized by the user to achieve maximum partition size.
Index item 7-B is a reference.

These are not the only methods available to achieve your goal but these are steps I am suggesting that you use. If you have a full disk backup (all partitions-everything) of the Vista system, then you may want to consider the cloning as first choice as it is the easiest. I would not perform a clone without having a disk option backup first.

Reminder:
1. Install blank target drive in its normal intended boot position inside the Lenova laptop.
--Note; laptop should be connected to electricity.
2. Reboot into the TI Rescue CD for cloning or restoring.
3. After completion. Remove CD- Shutdown and reboot with only the new target drive attached. A reboot may be needed.
4. After new disk boots normally, use the Partition Wizard for partition expansion--if needed. Or, if you have the Acronis Disk Director, it works very well for the expansion of partition sizes.

1. "I also suggested that you create an additional Rescue CD by downloading the ISO file" - I'm not sure where to DL it from.
Can you provide a link?
Why is it different from the CD I've created from within TI?

2. Understood.

3. Done so many times

4. Most of the times this is how I've tried it.

By the way, the prog starts to copy and only 20-25 min into the process it fails, so I wonder if it shows that the problem is with the HD, not the Rescue CD.

I've tried also to create tib file and I noticed that this time it failed because it couldn't read some sector from the source file. Is it possible for the prog to fail for this reason or I'm missing something?

By the way, I believe that I can do sector by sector backup (will it eliminate the problem I have allegedly with the bad sector?) but there is no such option of cloning sector by sector? On the other hand, if cloning by definition means sector by sector and it still fails then backup sector by sector will not work, will it?

"Disk clone: Cloning places your source drive at risk but if you choose to clone, use this link." - I'm not sure how cloning can damage the source. After all no action is taken on the source other than reading from it, and if reading alone can damage it so can backup can damage it. Please enlighten me on the issue.

Thanks for all your help.

1. ISO download access is in your registration logon. Same location as the 7046 download. The iso is different because it uses a different version of Linux and uses different drivers. Update: A new iso has just been released as posted as of May 24.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/11054

2. Check the old Lenova disk for disk errors. It will take a couple hours. A reboot may be needed before it runs. I would also repeat the chkdsk test just to make certain all errors are corrected. The information about errors found will be displayed in the events log under a heading ofapplications/ winlogon. In addition, once your have the new disk running on the Lenova, I would also check the 320 for any errors passed along from the old disk.
From the command prompt,
chkdsk c: /R

3. As for the cloning procedure being less safe. this link is but the latest (of many prior postings) whereas something happened. Whether is was a user error or a program malfunction--or both, the bottom line is that the source disk was erased. This why there is the recommendation to have a full and complete backup available before attempting a cloning operation. You may or may not have a cloning problem but if you do, you have the complete backup as a recovery option. The type problem should not occur but it does happen so you have to be prepared.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/10879

4. I also suggest that you implement the Vista fix shown in post #1 of this link.
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=185731

This fix will NOT help you with your cloning issue but it might help with future restore issues.It is a fix I recommend for all Vista users. Applying this fix cannot hurt you and is not a detriment. Once this fix is applied, it also means that you can use the older version 10 Rescue CD for cloning, etc--should you want to do so. While version 10 cannot restore a 2010 backup, it can restore a backup created by itself should you have a need.

It never occurred to me that disk errors can present a problem for cloning. My daughter left already but next time she comes to visit I'll run chkdsk c: /R, as you suggested, and then try to clone the HD.

Meantime I backed up my own HD and validated it. However when I tried to restore it to one of my HD I couldn't chose the empty HD, which was installed already in the laptop. I could choose the partitions on the external HD, where I store the backup, but the internal (empty) HD would stay gray and impossible to choose as destination, although it's recognized by the laptop (shows as SATA drive ). I "added" the internal disk to the laptop (using TI, of course) several times but I can't choose it as a destination to which I want to restore the tib file.

Essentially I want to make sure that the back up file is good and will serve its purpose, when time comes, so I'm trying to restore it to a usable empty drive, but I'm unsuccessful in doing so.

I wonder if you can think of a reason for it and how to resolve the problem.

Thanks.

I am understanding that you are using an HP Laptop running Vista using TrueImageHome 2010 build 7046; and the master disk has been removed and a blank disk is installed in its position; and booted from the TI Rescue CD; and attempting a restore. Is this correct or advise the differences. This post has covered a wide range of discussions so clarification is needed.

-------------------------------------------------------

General:
While Windows Disk Management will see a blank unformatted drive, the Windows cannot see the same drive.

Any version of TrueImageHome should be able to see the blank unformatted drive but when it is displayed will vary. You may even have to open up the "MyComputer" listing in order to see drive choices.

When performing a backup, if you have a blank unformattted disk installed, the blank disk should be visible as disk #? "The disk is empty."

When performing a Recovery, the blank drive will NOT be displayed in the Browse option when searching/selecting the *.tib file to be restored. The blank unformatted drive will not be displayed or made visible until you reach the near the ending screen "Select destination of Disk 1" and it should be listed as one of the choices.

If the Rescue CD made from the installed version of 2010 does not show the blank disk, then try using the alternate ISO Rescue CD as discussed earlier.

Remember: a newer version of TrueImage can see an older version backup file but the older version of TrueImage cannot read a backup file created by the newer version.
-----------------------------
Note:
If the Lenova has disk errors, this could be effecting its daily use. You might want to consider talking your daughter through the process and have her perform the first pass at fixing any disk errors. It should be the same procedure as you would use on your own HP. Check the error report after checking for errors--as previous discussed.

Grover,

All your assumptions (in the beginning of your reply) are correct.

I want to make it absolutely clear - there is no way I can choose the empty HD installed inside the laptop as the destination, whether it's formatted or not, and obviously added to the laptop by TI. I've tried to do it again, after reading your reply, and I even quick formatted the HD, which now is seen and recognized not only by TI but also by Vista (shows 320GB empty HD with a letter assigned to it). However I can't choose it as a destination since it's grayed out.

How strange.

What can be possibly the reason for TI to gray out a SATA drive, which is formatted and blank? I can easily choose the source file (tib) but after I choose Recover all partitions I can't direct it to the correct HD to be recovered.

Very frustrating.

By the way, you advised me before to implement Vista fix (4. I also suggest that you implement the Vista fix shown in post #1 of this link. http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=185731). But reading the explanation for the fix I noticed that it's from 2006 (!) and using the latest TI I want to believe that it's unnecessary, 4 years after the fix was introduced. However if you think that it might be the reason for not being able tot choose the right HD for recovery I'll try it anyway.

As for TrueImage not displaying the unformatted target drive, one reason could be that is that it believe the target disk is too small to hold the restore and especially if the original disk contained any disk errors. What size was the disk from which you created the backup? There has been prior postings of problems restoring to a smaller disk even if the used space had plenty of room. If this is the issue, you might try not using the disk restore but restore in two passes. Restore the first and second partitions in the first pass and then restore the mbr/track0 plus the disk signature in the second pass. No reboot necessary between passes.

Yes, as I stated in post #26 above, I do recommend that you apply the Vista fix to both yours and your daughters computer.
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=185731
The comments in red in post #1 of that link was posted Dec 9., 2008 as noted by the Moderator.
There is no downside to applying the fix. Applying the fix will have no bearing on your problems with restoring or cloning. Any benefit derived has to do whether the restore or clone will boot upon completion. However, be aware that if you apply the fix and then perform a restore which did not contain the fix, the restore will have undone the fix and the fix will have to be reapplied.

I've created the tib file from 500GB HD and the file itself is 187GB in size. I'm trying to restore it to 320GB HD, which seems like plenty of room for this file.
How does that sound to you? Still size can be the issue here?

As I have already stated here, this is something you can try as a workaround. I am assuming that your Vista disk has only two partitions so these instructions are applicable.

There has been prior postings of problems restoring to a smaller disk even if the used space had plenty of room. If this is the issue, you might try NOT using the disk restore but restore in two passes. Mark/Restore the first and second partitions in the first pass and then Mark/restore the mbr/track0 plus the disk signature in the second pass. No reboot necessary between passes.

The workaround looks promising. However when I click on Restore Whole disks and partitions (not files and folders) and I need to check partition C and D (not the MBR/Track0) I can choose the destination for C (which will go into my main HD C) but when I try to choose destination for D - the main HD is grayed out. I can choose the main HD for MBR/Track0 and C together or by themselves, but not D. I can do D by itself but not with C.

By the way, D is very small (10GB) so I'm not sure what's going on.

Any idea?

Should I do C and MBR/Track0 and after it's done do D? Will it work? Or do I need to do files and folders?

Thanks.

A few observations.
A. Files and folders not involved and not an option.
B. After checkmarking mbr and when you reach the next screen where the "disk signature" is also selected, it is the target disk (320gb) which is to be selected as to receive the mbr and disk signature from the backup.
C. Have you assigned a name (such as Vista-C) to your main/largest partition? What is the name you assigned?
D. Open Windows Computer/disk management screen and observe the arrangement of your partitions.
Is the 10GB partition pictured as first? Does it show a drive letter being assigned? Which partition is shows as "active"?
Whichever partition is pictured as being first is the first one to be restored when doing a recovery.
Whichever partition is shown s as "active" in disk management must be selected as active during the recovery.
e. Restoring MBR/trac0 plus "disk signature" can be first or last or done by itself.
e. You may have to experiment since you are only doing a trial run. Your Disk Management screen may look like this example.
Your restore screen can be arranged so the partition letters are in the first column and the second and third column contains the start and ending sector numbers. The 5-sort.gif attachment shows one possibility but the source is not an HP computer like yours.

Attached is a pic which (I hope) answers your questions.

Jojo,
Thank you. That helps to explain your setup. I would immediately assign a unique name to your C partition such as "Vista_C" so a volume name can be part of your next backup and all future backups. A volume name should also be assigned to the Lenova if none assigned.

Would you also create a new attachment and duplicate my example of the 5-sort.gif (preferred) or the new attachment below. You will need to sort and arrange the columns as illustrated before creating the capture. You can perform the capture with TI open inside Windows and your normal disk installed. The purpose of the capture is to confirm the partition arrangement as seen by TI.

You may find it helpful to review my signature index item 7B. While the pdf illustrated prior versions of TI, the sequences are the same plus section 3 illustrates how to rearrange the partitions display so the partition number and beginning/ending sectors numbers displayed.

Grover,

First off - thanks for your endless patience and determination to help. It's quite remarkable.

Now to your response - I named my C partition ("Vista") as you suggested. If you think that doing so would resolve the problem I'd be happy to run a new backup now.

I've attached a few pics which speak for themselves, but I'll add a few words for each:
Pic#1: this is the screen from which I choose the partitions to restore, and it looks to me they are in the right order.
Pic#2: if I choose both partitions (C and D) to be restored this is what I get - I can't restore to the correct HD (291GB). A note - in order for me to capture these screens I launched TI from within Vista so the desired destination shows as USB connected. Obviously when I try to restore this HD is my main HD and shows SATA HD. If I use Recovery CD I can't capture these screens.
Pic#3: this the screen where I choose destination (New Location on the top right side)
Pic#4: if I choose only one partition or one partition and MRB I can choose the right HD for destination as seen here (unallocated 298.1GB)
Pic#5: if I choose both partitions after I designate destination for C I can't designate the same HD for D. Interestingly this HD now shows different info than before. Again, the D drive is small - only 10GB large.

I'm sorry if I provided too much and unnecessary info, just trying to be thorough and save on back and forth here.

Thanks again.

If I can help, I will continue as long as you are interested in resolving this particular problem. This is a holiday weekend so my help will be limited--due to time constraints.

If you think that doing so would resolve the problem I'd be happy to run a new backup now.

No, a new backup would not help as long as the one you are now using is a disk option backup which contains backup of both partitions.
The name change will help but I personally would add the drive letter to the name (Vista_C}. I would also change the name on the Recovery partition to "Recovery_D".

1. The attachments were helpful. It would help if your were to provide a new replacement for the 1.jpg attachment. This pic provided is the default view which really does not provide adequate information. Again, start TI from within the Windows and select the backup file being used for your restore. When you get to the "Select items to recover" screen (as 1.jpg), change the sort order which can be done as follows:
a. Click on the "columns" icon located in middle upper right of the active screen.
b. Click the "Number" category and it will become highlighted. Now, click the "Move Up" option several times so the "Number" item is "moved up" to top first spot.
c. Repeat b except choose the "Start" category and move up the "Start" to the 2nd spot.
d. repeat b except choose the "End" category and move up the "End" to the 3rd spot.
e. Now, check mark these first three category listing.
f. At this point, your screen should look similar to my attachment below-- "Column-sort.gif". Click ok and observe your revised display. You should see the first 3 columns listed in this sequence.
Number-(or N), Start, End (Similar to this example).

Note: you can click the column heading and it will resort differently as many times as you click the column header. We want the sort to be in partition "number" sequence as per example.
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2009/12/7027/disk-op…

Now, perform your screen capture for attachment.

2. Next, continue with the Recovery simulation and select the "vista" partition for recovery.
Click Next for next screen.

3. At this point, your screen should look like your 3.jpg attachment.
This "Specify Recovery Settings of Partition C" has 3 parts which requires user participation.
a. Top part is where you select the unallocated 298GB disk.
b. Middle part is where you confirm the selection of Primary and Active.
c. Bottom part is where you adjust the partition size if it needs adjustment.
We know the disk size is 298 GB; plus we know that the Recovery partition needs 10GB. This means the new expanded partition can be no larger than 288GB.
After user adjustment (if needed), this screen must show either
.... a new partition size of 288gb with no free space before or after;
....or, 288gb with no free space before but with 10GB free space after
close the partition resize screen and your 3 part screen is complete.
Perform a new screen capture of this screen and attach.

4.Click next to get you to the next screen which should read "Select destination of disk #"
(Hopefully, this 298GB disk is not greyed out.)
Checkmark on the 298GB unallocated disk. Listing should become highlighted and the unallocated window appear at the bottom of the screen.

5. Click Next to go to the last screen where you have the Proceed or Cancel option.
Again, perform a screen capture and attachment.
Click Cancel to stop the process until we can review the new attachments.
If all the new attachments check out, the restore procedure we will use will be
First pass: Restore Vista partition
2nd pass: Restore Recovery partition
3rd pass: Restore MBR plus "disk signature"
(NO reboots between passes.)
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Note:
The column sort sequence will retain its setting inside Windows and you should use it as your normal base display. When booting from the Rescue CD, again change the column sort order so the Cd has the same sort order as in Windows. You may have to make this CD column sort change every time you boot into the CD. By using this sort sequence, the partition number should always be in numerical sequence; plus the start/end sector sequence should be in numerical sequence. This is just a safety precaution to help you restore in the proper sequence. You should use this same sort sequence on the Lenova as well.

Hi Grover,

After I read your last reply I thought that maybe the cause of my problems is that TI doesn't allow me to choose the right HD for both partitions (C and D) because C takes too large (free space included). So I chose this time the destination for both C and D but reduced the size of C (under Partition Size) and then it allowed me to use the same HD for D as well. I restored both partition successfully and after it was done I added MBR0.

Now against conventional wisdom I didn't even bother to place the destination HD inside my laptop (I gave it little chance to succeed so I didn't bother to reverse positions). So essentially I restored from the tib file which was on USB HD to destination HD which was too USB HD (I have the Blacx 2 HD system). Anyway, amazingly it worked perfectly. I placed now the destination HD in my laptop and it booted with no problem, although it installed 2 generic drives and I was instructed to restart. Later on I used the Partition Wizard to fine tune the size of the partitions, and this it - all is well and the laptop works like a charm.

I understand that this is not the recommended way of doing it, and when I'll do the Lenovo I'll have to reverse positions when restoring. Nevertheless it's working now and it seems that the way to do it is simply when restoring to reduce the size of the large partition to almost actual size to make room for the smaller one. And then, as you suggested, to add MBR0.

Any thoughts, comments?

I'm glad you were successful and also gained some experience with Partition Wizard. It can come in handy when moving to a new drive. I have no conclusive answer but your success was undoubtedly caused by making the partition size smaller --highly probable because the backup contained bad clusters carrying over into the backup. Making the partition smaller forced TI to reposition all the data. If you plan on using the 320 in the HP for a while, you will want to run chckdsk c: /R on the 320

Had TrueImage still continued to have the destination drive "grreyed out", here would have been my plans and these could still be implemented if you wish. This action should cause the data to become more compact within the backup or less pockets of data scattered all over the drive. Turning off system restore temporarily is no risk since you have backup coverage.

1. Again run Chkdsk c: /R on the HP 500 drive. (I know you did this before but I would repeat.)
2. Right click on the MyComputer Icon and choose the properties option.
a. Choose the Restore tab and turn OFF system restore on all drive.
3. Download cCleaner from www.ccleaner.com
4. Install cCleaner but during the install, uncheck the Yahoo toolbar option .
5. Run cCleaner and let it find and then choose the fix option. Or run automatically so the fix is auto applied.
This will remove all temp files plus your history, etc. I usually Right click on the Recycle bin and click on the "Run cleaner" option.
6. Run Windows defrag twice. The second time may have to be a forced run if it says defrag not needed on second pass but run it anyway a second time.
7. start cCleaner manually. I right click on the Recycle bin and choose the "Open cCleaner" option.
Choose the "Wipe free space" option so the option has an "X" in the open box.
8. Click on the Run cleaner option. This couldl run for several hours while wiping the free space.
9. Perform a new TrueImage full disk backup to include both C & D.
10. After completion of the above, turn System Restore "ON" so it is active again.
11. Retry the restore again onto the 320 drive using the new backup. This restore option not needed since you already were successful.

I believe it would be beneficial if your did perform these checks on the 500GB drive. This would remove any doubts about bad clusters plus it would get rid of some of the system restore baggage.

Again. thanks for your continued effort.
Grover

ps: A reverse clone or a reverse restore is only "required" on some brands such as the Lenova/IBM plus some others. Placing the target in its intended boot position removes an obstacle (if one exists) and provides not harm if it is not required. It is just a precautionary measure as to what works for the most number of people.
revised 09:30am edt usa