ATI 2016 Backup results confusing???

Irv, the messages shown in the log for the backup task are a concern especially when they appear to be contradictary as below:

23    True Image    11/9/2016 12:19:09 PM    Error occurred while writing the file.
24    True Image    11/9/2016 12:19:09 PM    Error occurred while writing the file.
25    True Image    11/9/2016 12:19:09 PM    The request failed due to a fatal device hardware error
26    True Image    11/9/2016 12:19:09 PM    The following backups have been successfully created:

This, to my mind, would still suggest that there is an issue with the drive where the backup files is being written to, and the log snippet appears to show that after several retries, the file was able to be written successfully, which may explain why you later validation is successful.

I would suspect that you have also configured automatic cleanup and the further messages shown in the log arise from the actions needed for the cleanup:

27    True Image    11/9/2016 12:19:09 PM    Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, add it again by clicking 'Browse for backup' and recreate the backup settings.

Do you have the option of trying the same backup to a different backup drive?

The disk drive settings to turn off after 120 minutes inactivity should not be involved as the disk drive should be being accessed regularly by ATIH while the task is active.

Steve, I tried running the backup again with the drives set to stay on. Failed again.

I didn't mention something, and I think it might have something to do with this.

After I did get it working I tried deleting one of the old backup programs. Symantec's System Restore 2013. It was deleted and it said it had to reboot the PC to finish the Uninstall. Well it never rebooted, Blue Screen reporting Invalid Boot Drive. All the tricks I knew didn't work, nor did Google searches. Luckily I had the backup of the C: drive I made. I also had another boot drive running W10. Thinking my SSD was toast I booted the other drive, the original C: and restored my C: to that C:. I was back in business but running slow due to the mechanical drive. I used that drive for a few days until I solved the SSD problem. I had to disconnect ALL the other drives and leave only the SSD connected. I then installed W10 to it using the Media Creation tool on a USB. Then checked that it booted. Next used the ATI DVD to restore the C: to the SSD and then powered off the PC and reconnected the 2 hard drives and the External drive. It booted fine and I had access to everything.

When on the Mechanical drive I did CHANGE the ATI backup plan to using the partitions on the Mechanical drive. Once I restored it to the SSD I changed those back, and that is where I am now. Do you think this caused an 'error' in the plan?

I am confused by the exact error dialog box though?

==============

The last backup had failed.

Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, and try again by clicking "Browse for backup" and recreate the backup settings.

============

What LIST is that and how do I remove the backup from it?

Where is BROWSE FOR BACKUP?

What does RECREATE BACKUP SETTINGS mean?

Does it really mean I should just create a NEW backup plan, select the disks/partitions and target, and use that?

I've attached the 'fail' screen and that I added in the failed backup and started the validate for you to see. You'll see the change in time/date after I added to backup that failed to the list.

BTW. this did Validate too????

Here is my Settings in the screen capture.

I set it for 8 copies... To make that happen don't I need Automatic Cleanup on?

Irv - yes, that is the cleanup setting.  If you don't change any settings, then upon completion of the 9th full backup that should trigger the oldest one to delete, leaving you with 8 again.

Just keep in mind that the cleanup tasks only work for the full backups that the task was created with originally.  So if you took 5 backups, then turned on the cleanup rule, when you get to backup 9, that doesn't necessarily mean that first backup will get cleaned up - it might, but that seems to vary.  Usually, it will cleanup like it's supposed to, but what ends up happening is that the version chain gets reset to 0 when you edit a task... so in my example..

5 backups >>> edits task to add a cleanup rule telling it to keep 8 >>>> this resets version count from 5 to 0 since the task has been edited >>>> which means that you need 8 new backups to complete the chain since it was reset to 0 = 13 (5+8) >>>> version chain is complete with the completion of the next successful full after the number of backups has been met so on successful completion of 14th, that would trigger the cleanup and should clear out the older ones at that time, leaving 8 after that.

Bobbo, see my message above, this also has me confused?

error dialog box

==============

The last backup had failed.

Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, and try again by clicking "Browse for backup" and recreate the backup settings.

============

What LIST is that and how do I remove the backup from it?

Where is BROWSE FOR BACKUP?

What does RECREATE BACKUP SETTINGS mean?

In True Image I don't see any options like that?

OK, this is again making NO SENSE!!! I am not a rank amatuer and 'usually' know what I'm doing!

Steve had suggested using another drive.

So I created a NEW plan for only C: itself, no other partitions on the SSD, to my Internal L: drive. Before doing that since I was having all these fails I decided to REBOOT the PC. Windows Patch Tuesday Update of course decided to install then. Once back I ran it. It worked!!! External Disk error maybe?

So I CLONED that plan and changed the target to be the External drive. It WORKED??? Why I don't know?

Neither reported any errors? Could it be the PC somehow was messed up? We some of the tweaking I did on the settings not taking hold until I rebooted?

Right now I'm validating BOTH of the above backups that got the GREEN CHECK when they completed to ensure they are really good.

After that I'll try the 'standard' 2 partition backup plan I made and see what happens.

We this is ANNOYING, after the reboot and trying the SAME BACKUP PLAN that failed, it worked this time...

WINDOWS 10..... or my PC h/w... you pick it...

We'll see next week I guess when the next backup is scheduled...

Something is unreliable and picky it seems...

This is NOT funny anymore!!!!

The PC was used a little this morning after boot and basically sat idle for 2 hours or so. Hard drives DID NOT go to sleep.

I was using it and decided to kick off the backup that was randomly failing.

As you might remember it failed, and then I rebooted and it worked fine.

Well, it just FAILED!!! and I got this email:

================

1    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:28 AM    Backup reserve copy attributes: format tib; need_reserve_backup_copy false;
2    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:28 AM    Operation 2 Disk Backup started manually.
3    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:34 AM    Backup reserve copy attributes: format tib; need_reserve_backup_copy false;
4    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:34 AM    Operation: Backup
5    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:34 AM    Priority changed to Low.
6    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:34 AM    Create Backup Archive From:    Disk 2, Disk_K (K:) To file:    "P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv\2 Disk Backup.tib" Compression:    Normal Exclude:    Files matching mask Match criterion:    hiberfil.sys, pagefile.sys, $Recycle.Bin, swapfile.sys, System Volume Information, *.tib, *.tib.metadata, *.~, *.tmp, C:\Users\ispal_000\AppData\Local\Temp, C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Temp, C:\Users\ispal_000\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache, C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\INetCache  
7    True Image    11/11/2016 10:33:34 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
8    True Image    11/11/2016 10:36:47 AM    Writing full version to file: 2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1.tib
9    True Image    11/11/2016 11:12:40 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
10    True Image    11/11/2016 11:12:42 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
11    True Image    11/11/2016 11:12:43 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
12    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:24 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
13    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:24 AM    Pending operation 172 started: 'Creating partition image'.
14    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:24 AM    Error occurred while writing the file.
15    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:24 AM    Error occurred while writing the file.
16    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:24 AM    The request failed due to a fatal device hardware error
17    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Reattempting the operation. Error: Error occurred while writing the file..
18    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Error occurred while writing the file.
19    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Error occurred while writing the file.
20    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The request failed due to a fatal device hardware error
21    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The following backups have been successfully created:
22    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, add it again by clicking 'Browse for backup' and recreate the backup settings.
23    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, add it again by clicking 'Browse for backup' and recreate the backup settings.
24    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The specified file does not exist.
25    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The specified file does not exist.
26    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:55 AM    Operation has completed with errors.
============================

The 'performance' is set to low and I didn't even know it was running as I was using PC while it was running part of the time. Actual log with the Log viewer is basically the same as the email.

These lines concern me:

-------------

20    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The request failed due to a  fatal device hardware error
21    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    The following backups have been successfully created:
22    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, add it again by clicking 'Browse for backup' and recreate the backup settings.
23    True Image    11/11/2016 11:19:54 AM    Failed to open data stream. Try to remove the backup from the list, add it again by clicking 'Browse for backup' and recreate the backup settings.

---------------------------

Fatal device errors usually DO NOT recover?

Could the problem be a log file or something? Not the backup? Reason is I tried VALIDATING the backup and it DID???? Is it because 'something is missing' and never got written? I suspect that something was not written, as here is the backup list:

===============

P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv>dir
 Volume in drive P is Seagate Backup Plus Drive
 Volume Serial Number is 88E0-6BE4

 Directory of P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv

11/11/2016  10:36 AM    <DIR>          .
11/11/2016  10:36 AM    <DIR>          ..
11/09/2016  08:37 PM   217,932,937,728 2 Disk Backup_full_b1_s1_v1-2.tib
11/09/2016  04:16 PM   226,658,372,096 2 Disk Backup_full_b1_s1_v1-3.tib
11/02/2016  11:17 AM   225,948,047,872 2 Disk Backup_full_b1_s1_v1.tib
11/11/2016  11:19 AM   217,616,509,440 2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1.tib
               4 File(s) 888,155,867,136 bytes
               2 Dir(s)  2,192,744,734,720 bytes free

============

The 2 217GB's are the ones that failed and passed Validation. The other 2 are ones that did NOT fail.

I need a RELIABLE backup solution?

What could be the cause here? What am I doing wrong? What can be done to correct this?

I'm going to reboot and start the job again and NOT touch the PC and see what happens.

OK, I don't think it is ATI now?

I rebooted and decided to look at Event Viewer. Lo and behold System Disk Error 154 repeatedly... on Disk 3, the External Backup drive!!!!

However as you can see in the screen captures, it started 10:33:07 this morning. I was also happened last night before I shutdown. That all shows in the first screen capture. However the 2nd doesn't support that it is ALWAYS happening. I had rebooted as I said, so I saw the results from the before the shutdown (which seemed to take a long time). To make sure I REFRESHED that error list, it did not change and the second screen capture shows the time I did it.

Searching for it I found this, https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2806730

and I'm not sure it really applies, but makes sense to me, a read delay too long? Mine is set in the registry referenced in that link to x'3c (60 seconds) and implies it would retry 8 times, but the ATI log shows only a few tries so did it finally work? I don't think I want to change that setting though right now?

CHKDSK shows no errors????

=========

C:\Users\ispal_000>chkdsk p:
The type of the file system is NTFS.
The volume is in use by another process. Chkdsk
might report errors when no corruption is present.
Volume label is Seagate Backup Plus Drive.

WARNING!  /F parameter not specified.
Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ...

  256 file records processed.

File verification completed.

  0 large file records processed.

  0 bad file records processed.

Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ...

  310 index entries processed.

Index verification completed.

  0 unindexed files scanned.

  0 unindexed files recovered to lost and found.

Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ...
Security descriptor verification completed.

  27 data files processed.

Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems.
No further action is required.

   3815317 MB total disk space.
1765343768 KB in 39 files.
        48 KB in 29 indexes.
         0 KB in bad sectors.
    185439 KB in use by the system.
     65536 KB occupied by the log file.
2141356376 KB available on disk.

      4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
 976721407 total allocation units on disk.
 535339094 allocation units available on disk.

==================

Sooo... what to do?

At this point I'll probably contact Seagate as it is CLEAR to me ATI is not causing this and it IS seeing a real disk error. I'm SURE since it is not happening now ATI will backup fine.

Of course I could be running some program that could be causing this as well, but I don't offhand know how to track that? I guess I'll have to search for that, don't see anything right away...

Irv, sorry to hear that this issue is still ongoing.

Please see post https://forum.acronis.com/forum/127306#comment-397967 where another user with the 'Failed to open data stream' error found this was caused by inadequate permissions to the target drive backup folder - please check what your 'SYSTEM' security properties are for your backup folder on the Seagate backup drive.  See screen shot from my own system for one of my backup folders.

The 'fatal device hardware error' would continue to be a worry for me as the only time I have seen this type of error message there has been a hardware issue with the drive involved.

Steve, thank for the reply. My drive properties are the same as you have, see the capture.

At this time I think it isn't even a drive problem but some program I am running that is causing this? Worst part, to the best of my knowledge NO program is even accessing the P: External drive but 3 programs, ATI, Windows Explorer, and my Explorer replacement, Explorer++ as it does see the drive in the list of devices. Of course my Internet Security Suite could be too randomly.

The REALLY odd par was the PC was turned on around 7:30AM but the problem did not until almost 3 hours later did it happen? I just checked now, almost 1 hour after the reboot and it still has not happened again?

I'm 90% sure SOME program is causing this, just can't figure out how to get notified on the error?

I'm going to contact Seagate as well and see if they can help pin it down? It might be a drive problem but I feel the likelyhood is low.

Irv, just for completeness, do you see the same properties for your P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv folder as you posted in the screen shot for the root folder?

Steve, yes, same, and like yours the check marks are gray'ed out. They inherited it from the main folder which is why mine were dark in the capture I posted.

More info and now I'm SURE it is the drive. We went out and the PC was on and there were NO errors for DISK... came back in, looked in the Event Viewer. Yup, not only was that one back but another one too (that I might have missed before).

===============Log Name:      System
Source:        disk
Date:          11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM
Event ID:      11
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      Irv8700
Description:
The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk3\DR3.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="disk" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="49156">11</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2016-11-11T18:08:32.950830500Z" />
    <EventRecordID>50087</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>System</Channel>
    <Computer>Irv8700</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>\Device\Harddisk3\DR3</Data>
    <Binary>0300840001000000000000000B0004C0020100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A915040000000000FFFFFFFF000000005800008402000000FE20101642072000002000000F0000000060A5BF0FA2FFFF901448CB0FA2FFFF0000000000000000309C4EC40FA2FFFF00000000000000000000000000000000880000000000000000000000001000007201001D0000000E090C00000000000F000000004050000000000000</Binary>
  </EventData>
</Event>

============

No, I didn't miss it is seems. Last time it happened before was 11/02?

Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/2/2016 9:36:44 AM    disk    11    None
Error    11/2/2016 9:35:45 AM    disk    11    None

Funny part it is now 2:44PM, so it appears it might 'cure itself'????

I'm on the phone (hold awaiting an agent) with Seagate now...

I'm 99.9% sure that is my problem, the drive or controller. No Firmware updates for it yet either....

Irv, I would agree that this is a problem with the drive, especially when there are controller errors for the device as well as the fatal device error.  Good luck with your phone call with Seagate.

Steve, just got off the phone with them. They did connect and looked at the errors in Event Viewer, me running CHKDSK too.

I go a few suggestions before they'd replace the drive:

• Try the drive on another PC and see if there are Event Viewer entries for it?
• Use a different USB Port
• Try it as USB 2.0
• Use a different USB cable
• Run SeaTool Long Generic Test on the drive and see if it fails (test takes over 10 hours and I'm running it now).
• TRY to return it to Staples and tell them the drive doesn't work.

I don't know how easy it would be to return it to Staples? Should be for an exchange I guess but I've used WD's on the PC without error, and when I see 'Controller' errors that is NOT the physical drive but the h/w and f/w in the case probably. I think to rule out SeaGate problems I'd rather have a WD drive.

At least I was told IF I had any problems to call back and they would then replace the drive IF the 2nd level felt it was warranted (they'd require a fail on SeaTools probably). Acronis errors would not be proof of a bad drive. As long as I could copy files to the drive then as far as they are concerned it is OK. Of course though the Event Viewer errors would have to be reviewed before it could be replaced.

Bottom line, they feel the drive is good unless SeaTool declares it bad, and the 2 short tests said it was OK.

Irv, there is a world of difference between writing some files to the drive and giving it an intensive stress test, so I would see if you can run the Seatools for an indepth test, perhaps leaving it running over night.

One way of eliminating the possibility of your Windows OS or any associated programs from being the cause for the Event log entries you are seeing, would be to download and create the Hiren's Boot CD - the 15.2 version is a few years old now but is still good for testing these types of problems and has copies of various different drive test tools under the DOS Tools boot option.  I use it to check for and fix bad sector issues on drives using the HDAT2 tool in the same section of the CD.  

Steve, I know full well about the differences with 'normal' usage and a stress test. I was a programmer and worked on a PC OS and even the old DOS and coding for devices. This is why I'll 'humor' them and run SeaTools long test. However I expect it to pass as it appears the failures are random, and I'm also surprised that the Controller fail lasted all of 2 seconds today!

============

Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:32 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:31 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/11/2016 1:08:30 PM    disk    11    None
=====

The 2 other days less reports:

----------

Error    11/2/2016 9:36:44 AM    disk    11    None
Error    11/2/2016 9:35:45 AM    disk    11    None
Error    11/2/2016 9:35:40 AM    disk    11    None
Error    11/2/2016 9:34:23 AM    disk    11    None
Error    11/1/2016 6:30:04 PM    disk    11    None
Error    11/1/2016 6:30:02 PM    disk    11    None

----------------

I think my chances of hitting it are slim to none, after all for 9 days it didn't happen.

The 154 errors go on for hours and the only thing that seems to cure it is a shutdown/restart. Still, I don't know WHAT kicks it off though?

Testing when the error doesn't happen is useless and not know what caused it doesn't help...

I started looking deeper into this... I noticed that the 154 error last night was NOT for DISK3 but DISK7!!! I don't even know what that could have been? I don't recall having any other external drive for thumb drive in?

Could I be having a PC problem? I just ran SFC /SCANNOW and all is clean?

C:\Windows\system32>sfc /scannow

Beginning system scan.  This process will take some time.

Beginning verification phase of system scan.
Verification 100% complete.

Windows Resource Protection did not find any integrity violations.

C:\Windows\system32>

The Event Viewer does have other errors around the time I went to shutdown... See the screen capture but it appears Acronis WAS NOT CLOSED but hung? I know I closed it before trying to restart (see above I did mention it took a long time to shutdown)? Error on Acronis part, problem due to the disk error? Was there actually a disk error or did Acronis hang the disk up?

So far, 7 hours into the disk test it has not failed, or if it did it will finish a complete test before reporting.

I'm in a TIME CRUNCH here. Tomorrow is the LAST day I can return the drive to Staples.... I must be sure it is at fault.

Irv, what criteria is required for returning the drive to Staples - can you just return for a refund or ask for a replacement drive based on it being unreliable in use, even if you cannot show a Seatools error?

I would be tempted to take it back anyway and see what they will offer you - you can say how much time you have spent already trying to get it to work without hitting errors nearly everytime.  If they won't give you a full refund, at least ask for a replacement drive of similar capacity, but not necessarily the same brand!

Seatools took 16 hours to complete vs. the projected 10. A dialog box opened and said it was taking longer than usual, one cause excessive retries. No errors in the Event Viewer and it did pass the Long Generic test?

I've printed out all the errors from Event Viewer, the Seatools screens, Seatools log showing 16 hours and I will be taking it back today. Day 14 of the 14 day return period.

I checked my wife's 2TB Seagate EXPANSION drive and it has NO errors with True Image 2016. But she has NO Paragon s/w installed.

Because Paragon s/w has been linked to some Seagate Backup Plus failing I'm going to ask for a Western Digital instead. All I need do is clean off the drive and back it goes.

VERY interesting thing happened this morning. Before I am going to clean off the external for return I made room on my internal backup drive to hold about 3 interations of the backup. Being 'lazy' I altered the existing backup plan to go to the internal drive AND only 3 backup's. The External was still attached (had 5 backups on it with all the tries I made) and in the log I see it still 'knew' about the P: drive and deleted 2 backups from it? Surprised me.

========

15    True Image    11/12/2016 8:06:42 AM    Consolidate Backup Archive Location:    "L:\Acronis\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1.tib" Destination:    "L:\Acronis\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1_D9D9E662-B167-4E35-A18A-7419908EC04E.tib"  
16    True Image    11/12/2016 8:06:42 AM    Consolidate Backup Archive Location:    "L:\Acronis\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1.tib" Destination:    "L:\Acronis\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b2_s1_v1_D9D9E662-B167-4E35-A18A-7419908EC04E.tib"  
17    True Image    11/12/2016 8:06:42 AM    Deleting backup file with path P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b1_s1_v1.tib.
18    True Image    11/12/2016 8:06:42 AM    Deleting backup file with path P:\Acronis_Backup\Irv\2 Disk Backup_full_b1_s1_v1-3.tib.
19    True Image    11/12/2016 8:06:42 AM    Operation has succeeded.

=========

I didn't expect this but I guess when I get a replacement drive I should delete that backup plan and create a new one.

I replied to another thread that had a similar problem and asked what drive they had and if the Event Viewer had Disk errors. Hope the replies. If it is the same drive one has to wonder if it is the drive or ATI that can't work with it?

We'll see what Staples does RSN...

Thanks again for you (and Bobbo) helping me at least get some sort of handle on this.

Irv, let us know how you get on.

No problem with the return at all. Staples didn't question anything at all.

Exchanged it for the 'new' model WD 4TB My Book.

Need to set it up and then build a new backup plan and I'll good to go (I hope).

That's good new Irv, hope all goes smoothly from here in.

Yes, all seems well now. I did just run a backup for the first time with a new plan.

It completed with no errors.

Very INTERESTING results too. I sort of felt is was faster. So I went looking for spec's on the 2 different drives. Couldn't find any other than the max. USB 3.0 speeds.

So I dug out the OLD emails.... an got the times for the complete SSD (boot, recovery, C:) and just the K: on the second drive.

To the returned Seagate, 47+ minutes.

The new Western Digital, 27+ minutes.

By comparison, before I cleaned off the Seagate for return I made a backup of the same items to my internal L:, 22+ minutes.

Both the Seagate AND Western Digital are USB 3.0 drives in the SAME USB 3.0 port on the PC. I compared the number of 'steps' in all 3 reports, 15... Now that can lead to one of 3 conclusions... Either the WD is clearly faster in transfer rates, the Seagate has worse write spec's, or lastly, the Seagate had errors that required retries internally.

Now take into consideration. The drives DO NOT list for the same price. The Seagate BackUp Plus is an older drive, I think first sold in 2012 and now listed for $130 and it was on sale for $120. The WD MyBook is a new updated model released this April of the older style MyBook and lists for $180, the older MyBook now lists for $150 (all prices are according to Staples). Both External drives are Desktop versions, not Portable versions that get the power from the USB port, but have a separate transformer. Internal disk is a SATA III drive with a large cache. These obviously impact performance.

Best part was the WD MyBook was on sale for $130 at both Best Buy and Office Depot and Staples matched the price at 110% of the difference so it only cost $5 more. I did take the new version as I couldn't figure out why there was a new version so I assumed it had to be 'better'. WD site doesn't offer ANY info on why one is better than the other.

Both do come with a WD version of True Image it seems (I didn't load it) so if I do have a problem I would use that one and see what happens.

Hopefully as far as needing help, this is the last one I'll start :-)

Irv, sounds like a win win situation with the new WD drive.

Please be aware with the WD version of ATIH that this is an OEM version and most likely is an older 2015 build based on posts from other users with this software, it may also have limited function compared to the full product.  

I have always preferred Seagate drives for internal use and have been served well by them, but most of my external drives are WD drives, including a couple of My Books and a My Book Live (network drive), though my main NAS is a Synology DS215 with 2 WD Blue 3TB drives in a RAID configuration.

Steve, I figured as much that the version was different. The drive manual showed some screen shots that were clearly not even labeled as TI. Matter of fact the new WD My Book documentation for what is included doesn't even mention Acronis but WD Backup where the old version did say a WD version of Acronis TI was included.

Only if I should hit a similar problem I had with Seagate might I install the WD version.

I've got a mix here, like I said my wife uses a Seagate External.

This new version is clearly smaller than my other My Books. Not significantly, but smaller.

These PC's here have mixed drives, Dell seem to ship with Toshiba's and I'll put WD's in them. SSD's, well the machines get whatever is the 'best' and 'cheapest' at the time we got them (3 - PC's, all Dell's). Also have a few WD external's around with a 1TB My Book USB 3.0 attached to a Netgear R7000 as basically a shared NAS. Movies from DVD's, music files, backups of out pictures from our digital camera's combined in one place, occasional Backup copied there 'just in case all else fails', and other stuff. Allows us to use those files on our iPad's and Smart TV's if we want.

I had ONE My Book External die on me. Long time ago, probably 6 to 8 years old. It was the disk too, not the enclosure... tore it apart and put the drive in a PCI adapter bay. Way past warranty time too. I've got 2 externals with 250GB's sitting around. We just fire them up randomly and add pictures to them. Not much use for the small drives anymore.

Steve, sigh, ALL is not OK. I must be snake bitten????

PC will NOT boot with the My Book (New) connected? I swear I rebooted yesterday with it powered up and connected? I guess I didn't?

This morning went to turn on the PC, all I get is the Dell logo, nothing else and the drive light goes off. Press the power button PC shuts off immediately. Disconnect the WD and it boots fine! You can see my tale of woe here, https://community.wd.com/t/wd-my-book-new-4tb-dell-xps-8700-will-not-boot/184511, and I've also sent e-mail to WD.

Don't understand WHY if the Seagate could boot why not the WD? WD Knowledge base suggested moving the DISK boot before USB Boot and turning on Legacy USB boot (I don't have this open but can turn off USB boot loading). Tried those and it doesn't work...

ONE thing I did notice. I'm pretty sure the Seagate was formatted NTFS. Not this WD, it is exFAT!!! Wonder if that comes into play? That format allows the drive to be used in both a PC and MAC... I know for the Seagate you had to re-format if you wanted to use it with a MAC I recall.

I found this, http://batcmd.com/windows/10/services/exfat/, and I am on Ver 1607 which is in the list? I'm reluctant as I am NOT getting any BOOT errors and once up and the drive is plugged in AND recognized it seems I can read it fine?

For now I'll wait to hear from WD. I've got another My Book 1B (older version, also USB 3.0) and I'll try that later on this PC and see what happens. I know I've had it here on this PC and it did boot, but there have been many updates to W10 since then.

Lucky me....

Steve, put in the old My Book, an Essential 2.0 (USB 2.0) 1TB drive on this PC and it boots fine (in a USB 3.0 port) with the My Book (New) off and out.

Main difference besides USB 3 vs. 2, the older WD one is formatted NTFS... Strange!!!!

Wonder if I do need that 'fix'?

Also considering copying the CONTENTS of the My Book to the Essentials and then reformatting the My Book to NTFS and restoring the files? Wonder if that OR the FIX above will do the trick?

I think I'll wait to hear from WD though.

Irv, if your boot device order has USB devices ahead of your fixed drive, then I suspect that the system is considering the WD My Boot with its exFAT formatting as a bootable drive and trying to boot from it but not finding an OS then getting stuck at that stage.

exFAT seems to be in use as an option for use on both Windows & Mac systems though I have never used it myself on any of my drives - I have always set my own WD My Book drives as NTFS, though with the larger sizes, this may need to be GPT. 

I have had similar issue with one of my external drives that some of my systems tried to use as an external boot device.

Yes, originally is was set to be 2nd boot option (CD/DVD first, SSD 3rd choice). With ALL other USB devices (External Drives, USB Flash drives) I could boot? Even the Windows Media Creation Tool that is bootable on the USB Flash drive could boot ahead of the SSD when inserted. For the CD/DVD there is a message so one could bypass booting from it, like the ATI DVD for recovery of drives.

I did move the USB Option to 3rd behind the SSD and it still hung. Even tried booting with LOAD USB BOOT disabled in the and it hung.

At this point I'm pretty sure it is the exFAT, which is used so the drive is PC and MAC compatible I suspect that is the problem.

Normal boot process is to load the BIOS which then finds the boot selection, loads the boot loader, and that starts loading the kernel. Chances are the first thing it needs to do is load the device drivers and I suspect it is choking on the exFAT. Which is why I sort of wonder IF I need the fix? From it:

------------------

Default Behavior

The ExFAT File System Driver service is a file system driver. If ExFAT File System Driver fails to start, the error is logged. Windows 10 startup proceeds, but a message box is displayed informing you that the exfat service has failed to start.

----------------

It is quite possible that the Kernel hasn't brought up the system enough to tell me it has a problem and can't even BSOD? Depending on driver load it might not even have had the opportunity to load a display driver and/or the call to load the exFAT driver never returned? Hence the reason I think I might need the fix?

Of course once up I can put in the drive and it powers up and can be seen and read, so at least 'part' of the driver works???

Right now I don't know enough. I have some options but I think I'll wait for a response from WD to my e-mail (IF I get one).

Options are:

• Leave it as is but alter the backup plan to tell me to plug the drive in. Not the best solution as it would stop the backup from running if I'm not around and forgot to plug it in.
• Try the FIX but to be safe do a backup first just in case the fix makes matters worse.
• I've got enough space on the 1TB External to copy the  My Book (NEW) files over to it and format to NTFS and than put the files back.
• Use a 3rd party program, like the free Partition Assistant, that could also do it.
• Wait to see what WD has to say (which I'm leaning towards).
• LASTLY, go back to Staples and return THIS drive. After looking at WD's site I see " Formatted exFAT for out-of-the-box compatibility with Windows and Mac. ". The older My Book says " Formatted NTFS. Windows 10, Windows 8 or Windows 7. May require reformatting for other operating systems. ". It would be a simple exchange but I feel funny going back there again.

So, I guess I can wait a few days and see what WD comes up with. Then just go FORMAT it (not sure IF CONVERT would work, not clear from searching the web but some are old posts) and see what happens.

Lucky me, nothing seems easy.

Steve, I'm digging deeper into this unfortunately...

I took down the 'fix' and opened the CMD file (which it is):

==========

@echo off
sc config exfat start= demand
exit

==========

Huh? One line essentially. The ran an Administrative CMD prompt and entered SC QUERY EXFAT:

====

C:\Windows\system32>sc query exfat

SERVICE_NAME: exfat
        TYPE               : 2  FILE_SYSTEM_DRIVER
        STATE              : 1  STOPPED
        WIN32_EXIT_CODE    : 1077  (0x435)
        SERVICE_EXIT_CODE  : 0  (0x0)
        CHECKPOINT         : 0x0
        WAIT_HINT          : 0x0

======

Stopped as I don't have it connected now.

With it connected:

=========

SERVICE_NAME: exfat
        TYPE               : 2  FILE_SYSTEM_DRIVER
        STATE              : 4  RUNNING
                                (STOPPABLE, NOT_PAUSABLE, IGNORES_SHUTDOWN)
        WIN32_EXIT_CODE    : 0  (0x0)
        SERVICE_EXIT_CODE  : 0  (0x0)
        CHECKPOINT         : 0x0
        WAIT_HINT          : 0x0

============

Then looked for info on setting exFAT, found Technet info at https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc990290(v=ws.11).aspx and the parameter it is 'setting':

=======

=========================

START =  DEMAND IS the default supposedly? Not showing in the Query above? Now that I see ALL the choices one would think BOOT is what it should be as it does work once the system is up?

I suspect 'DEMAND' would happen once the drive was plugged in and then the driver would be loaded based on the device connecting AND that is why the drive works.

It might be possible to set it to BOOT and give it a try without doing any damage to the system even? I'd still back it up though?

FIXED!!!!

Got a call from WD and we discussed what was going on and went into BIOS and tried various changed in boot order, secure boot, etc. and NOT fixed the problem.

The problem seems to be in BIOS.

So we decided to format to NTFS. BINGO, that did it.

My Book (new) no allows me to boot and use it.

Whew - a lot of work, but you persisted and found the culprit and a fix!  Glad it's working now!!!! :)