Might have figured out why wife's PC couldn't be recovered by ATI 2016?
Let me explain the attached images first, there are 6 JPG's, 3 each from our PC's. They all start with either an I_ or L_. I_ are from my PC, L_ from my wife's.
Both PC's are similar. Both are Dell's. Mine started life as Win8.0 and wife's as W7. Both shipped with a single hard drive with only a C: partition. On both PC's the first thing I did was decrease the size of the partition and create a new partition for Data. Additional hard drives were added for backups, and later external drives too. Only the OS and Data drives were backed up. At this time both systems have been upgraded to W10, V1709 (this is important possibly).
A program, Migrate OS to SDD V4 was used to 'clone' the C: to the SSD and make it bootable. The PC's were NOT set to DUAL BOOT, but the partitions on the original Hard disk that was NOT the Data partition had the drive letters for the other partitions removed and hidden from the booting SSD. We kept the original C: in case we needed to boot it, Dell gets 'nasty' when you have a problem and not booting the shipped OS, and we could always use F12's menu to boot to it.
In the x_disk2 JPG's you see the diskmgr output for each PC. Again, the I_ is mine, L_ is my wife's.
Now back to the problem. For some unknown reason one morning my wife's PC did NOT boot. It went into a cycle of trying to recover, diagnosing, and then the blue screen saying no boot disk was found. Choices were to try again or used Advanced options. Searching the web it seemed the MBR might have been corrupted and a combination of BOOTREC and BCD commands would fix it. Using the Advanced CMD option that didn't work, BOOTREC /FIXBOOT always failed with ACCESS DENIED. So I booted the Migration Tool with V1709 on it and used the CMD prompt from there. Still failed?
Thinking something might be wrong with some files on the disk (SFC /SCANNOW found no problems though) I just fired up the ATI PE disk and restored C:. Still got the same error?
To ensure there wasn't any problems with the PC itself I used F12 and could boot the W7 partition. OK, I'll restore C: to that as maybe the SSD has a problem. That didn't work, got a 'wrong OS' message.
At wits end I decided to boot the Migration tool and install a clean copy of W10 to the SSD. It booted fine! Good, now I'll just used the ATI DVD I have and restore C:. Bummer, can't find the boot disk again?
OK, the SSD is bad... bought a new one. Tried to restore C: and the MBR to it. Same boot error. So I installed W10 V1709 to it. It booted fine. OK, I'll restore C: to it. Will not boot, same errors???? OK, I'll restore C: and MBR, still will not boot.
I decided to just install V1709, ensured it booted, and took the time to rebuild her PC (mostly). Since there were prior restores, the new install created WINDOWS.OLD folder that I could get most of what was needed.
Now today I started to look closer at our two systems. I'm pretty sure I used ATI at one time (may have been before the SSD was installed?) though? The x_disk2 JPG's show the DISKMGMT output. Her SSD is Disk 0, mine Disk 1. Neither of us have a FAT partition, which is really the BOOT RECORD! Her's is on Disk 2 which is the original Dell shipped drive, and mine is on Disk 0 (called DIAGS) which is on my original shipped drive.
Now look at the 2 x_Acronis JPG's. Interestingly, neither of us are backing up the FAT partitions that are NOT on the SSD? Should that have been and needed for booting? Also on her choices she can select ALL partitions on Disk 2. On mine 2 are missing (ones without names). Matter of fact, if they don't have a name they don't seem to appear, but her FAT does an Unnamed?
The x_disk JPG's are just DISKPART output that matches the Disk Management.
With this long story I'm left with some questions now?
1) So, am I 'broke'? Do I need those FAT partitions to be part of the backup scheme?
2) When I did a RESTORE, what does the MBR restore and make bootable do and where does that operate on?
3) Is my h/w configuration the cause and there is no way to recover the boot drive? Do I need special EDITBCD commands for instance?
Sorry for the long story, but I'd like to know where I stand with respect to the boot drive restoration. Any guidance and suggestions would be most appreciated.
In reply to Irv, I think the key to the… by truwrikodrorow…
Note: the DIAGS partition shown in your I_Acronis.JPG is purely a Dell Diagnostics tools partition
Aware of that but it is the FAT partition that usually holds the BOOT files I think?
Usually the boot sequence is:
- Power on
- BIOS looks for the first boot drive/device specified in the BIOS settings
- The MBR which is the first location on the boot drive is accessed
- The MBR contains the Active Partition and boot loader info
- The OS boot strap is loaded from the active partition
So if the error message was correct than it could have been step 3 that failed to be found? If so, then the MBR created by ATI wasn't doing something right? ATI also sets the restored C: as active and bootable so was that wrong?
Either that or the saved image of C: was corrupt? Sort of doubt that as I was able to access the non-bootable C: and run SFC on it and nothing was found wrong.
Although you can delete the old C: partition, it isn't required. I kept them in case I'd need them. There is no dependency I think, but it is possible that my BIOS always sees the original drive as the location for the MBR? However on the wife's PC that SYSTEM partition is what W10 will use and the first sector should hold the MBR? I'd assume EASYBCD would prove that.
Here is the EASYBCD output for my PC...
===================
Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {9dea862c-5cdd-4e70-acc1-f32b344d4795}
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume10
path \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {7ea2e1ac-2e61-4728-aaa3-896d9d0a9f0e}
default {89e3f135-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
resumeobject {89e3f134-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
displayorder {89e3f135-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
toolsdisplayorder {b2721d73-1db4-4c62-bf78-c548a880142d}
timeout 5
Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {89e3f135-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
device partition=C:
path \WINDOWS\system32\winload.efi
description Windows 10
locale en-US
inherit {6efb52bf-1766-41db-a6b3-0ee5eff72bd7}
recoverysequence {89e3f136-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
displaymessageoverride Recovery
recoveryenabled Yes
isolatedcontext Yes
allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \WINDOWS
resumeobject {89e3f134-b419-11e7-9199-8bd4defe9bf6}
nx OptIn
bootmenupolicy Standard
==============
It calls for Volume 10.
Using DISKPART to list the volumes:
============
DISKPART> list vol
Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info
---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- --------
Volume 0 D DVD-ROM 0 B No Media
Volume 1 DIAGS FAT32 Partition 40 MB Healthy
Volume 2 WINRETOOLS NTFS Partition 490 MB Healthy
Volume 3 OS NTFS Partition 109 GB Healthy
Volume 4 K Disk_K NTFS Partition 811 GB Healthy
Volume 5 PBR Image NTFS Partition 8 GB Healthy
Volume 6 ESP FAT32 Partition 500 MB Healthy Hidden
Volume 7 NTFS Partition 449 MB Healthy Hidden
Volume 8 C OS NTFS Partition 110 GB Healthy Boot
Volume 9 Recovery NTFS Partition 450 MB Healthy Hidden
Volume 10 FAT32 Partition 100 MB Healthy System
Volume 11 NTFS Partition 460 MB Healthy Hidden
Volume 12 L Disk_L NTFS Partition 931 GB Healthy Pagefile
Volume 13 E Removable 0 B No Media
Volume 14 F Removable 0 B No Media
Volume 15 G Removable 0 B No Media
Volume 16 I Removable 0 B No Media
Volume 17 P P_Drive NTFS Partition 3726 GB Healthy
============
Now that resides on DISK 1:
========
DISKPART> sel disk 1
Disk 1 is now the selected disk.
DISKPART> detail disk
SanDisk SDSSDX120GG25
Disk ID: {DB73835F-010F-4543-43C5-3C058E8D5940}
Type : SATA
Status : Online
Path : 2
Target : 0
LUN ID : 0
Location Path : PCIROOT(0)#PCI(1F02)#ATA(C02T00L00)
Current Read-only State : No
Read-only : No
Boot Disk : Yes
Pagefile Disk : Yes
Hibernation File Disk : No
Crashdump Disk : No
Clustered Disk : No
Volume ### Ltr Label Fs Type Size Status Info
---------- --- ----------- ----- ---------- ------- --------- -------
Volume 8 C OS NTFS Partition 110 GB Healthy Boot
Volume 9 Recovery NTFS Partition 450 MB Healthy Hidden
Volume 10 FAT32 Partition 100 MB Healthy System
Volume 11 NTFS Partition 460 MB Healthy Hidden
=================
Now if you go back and look at my SCREEN CAPTURE for Acronis SOURCE (i_Acronis.jpg) you'll see I do NOT have that 100MB partition available for me to BACK UP! Without it it might be impossible to restore the full SSD. Now we can argue since it has no 'name' like 'SYSTEM' associated with it, Acronis can't tell what is needed (as it seems all other possible backup partitions DO have names)? Again, going back to my wife's PC, you'll see on her system (L_disk2.jpg) this is an unnamed partition on disk 2. Yet on L_Acronis.jpg there IS a choice for that as 'unnamed partition'.
Going a step further, I did 'destroy' her original SSD, but since it used the same program, I would have expected her disk to look like mine. If so then there was no save possible for the BOOT partition?
I captured the DISK list from the old saves... oldest from Dec. and the most recent.
L_A_Dec.jpg shows what was saved on Dec. 12th for the C: drive (SSD, 124GB's). 2 partitions only, the C: and Recovery Partition (old DELL cloned over by the Paragon program). Oddly, I do not have that particular partition on my PC (I_Disk2.jpg) but my PC is 2 years newer than hers? So no BOOT partition appears to have been saved for her in Dec.?
Now look at L_A_Jan.JPG... with the new W10 install on it. The NEW SSD (256GB) has the SYSTEM RESERVED partition backed up and the FIRST sector in that is the Boot record. Hopefully it means we can restore her C: with the latest saves.
Mine, I'm not so sure of? Seems for whatever reason ATI didn't pick up the boot record? However I'm not so sure my SSD is configured properly either?
Irv, the DIAG partition should never hold the Boot files, it is not a System Reserved or EFI partition. Neither should the Recovery partition hold such files as this gets deleted / a new partition created when Windows 10 performs an update for such as the Fall Creators Update.
Your EasyBCD output of:
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume10
path \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi
description Windows Boot Manager
Shows that this system is UEFI and the Volume 10 is actually the EFI partition which is used instead of the MSR one for UEFI systems, hence why it also shows Windows Boot Manager.
When you are choosing partitions in ATI you need to ensure that you are looking at the Full partition list and not at the Short partition list which is the default. When you click on this text at the bottom of the Source selection panel, this acts as a toggle and switches the view between these two options. If the EFI partition is actually on a different disk drive then you would need to have selected both disk drives in order to see it.
If your Windows OS and the Boot files are on different physical disks then this is an issue that can be caused by booting with two versions of the OS present, i.e. after cloning and leaving both drives connected.
In reply to Irv, the DIAG partition… by truwrikodrorow…
newShows that this system is UEFI and the Volume 10 is actually the EFI partition which is used instead of the MSR one for UEFI systems, hence why it also shows Windows Boot Manager.
When you are choosing partitions in ATI you need to ensure that you are looking at the Full partition list and not at the Short partition list which is the default.
THANK YOU!!! I missed that little tidbit...
I checked what that showed and you are correct, I can select all. See the 1st capture. I then looked at what partitions I could recover, and all are showing, see 2nd capture. So I am OK it seems.
My wife's PC not being able to be recovered, that is still a mystery then, unless there was a V1709 change to some permissions on the boot record and that stopped it from being restored?
I feel a LOT better, thank you.
Irv, good to know that your backup does include these vital hidden partitions that are essential for recovery.