ATI 2019 Rescue Media fails to boot (WinRE)
Windows 7 SP1 x64
I have recently upgraded from ATI 2018 to 2019 on my Dell Desktop. It is running OK, creating backups (except for NonStop which never works reliably - for me anyway, but that's a story for another post). Having got backup working, I turned my attention to creating Rescue Media. I am using Lexar 16 GB FAT32 thumb drives. I selected the "Simple" option which was recommended for my PC. The Rescue Media (WinRE) created successfully.
The next step was to test-boot the Rescue Media. The boot order is set in my Legacy BIOS to USB first, C: Drive last. Restarting the PC with the Rescue Media inserted, I noted that the thumb drive's light flashed briefly three times, then the PC proceeded to boot normally from the C: Drive. Tried rebooting several times, all with the same result. Created a second Rescue Media using a different, but identical thumb drive - same result. It is as though there is no usable boot record on the drive.
I have since created a Universal Restore on one of the same thumb drives and it boots correctly to the thumb drive (Rescue Media for other products also boot OK). So it is clear that there is nothing wrong with the boot order in the BIOS.
Looking at the files in the thumb drives there are the following files:
* bootmgr
* bootmgr.efi
And the following first-level folders:
* Boot
* EFI
* Sources
and a bunch of language folders.
What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance,
Pete.
Pete,
Can you share your machine specs? Is your machine capable of booting UEFI? Do you see more than one entry in the bios boot order for your thumb drive?
Steve, thanks for your response.
Re Universal Restore, I just followed the Media Builder wizard: I accepted the defaults mostly, so Bootable media type (Linux-based media); Windows-like presentation; Linux kernel parameters (left blank - wouldn't know what to put in there anyway); Acronis components (selected both 32-bit and 64-bit True Image and Universal Restore, but left out Disk Director 12 as it required Remote Logon credentials and this is a single PC network); selected the thumb drive as Removable Disk; added no drivers. So in summary, I guess I defaulted to the Linux version rather than WinRE. Question: Although Universal Restore Rescue Media is intended for restoring to different hardware, is there any reason why it can't also be used for restoring to the same hardware (eg, after a software crash)? If so, why do we need two types of Rescue Media (granted the regular media builder can include some extras such as System Reports, and those more experienced than I can add in other features which seem to be different between the two types)? (I note in passing that the competitive Macrium Reflect uses the same Rescue Media for both functions.)
You are right, your bootmgr.efi is twice the size of mine (at 703 KB) - my bootmgr is 375 KB.
Following your advice, I have downloaded the MVP Custom PE-based Media Builder. I will have a go at using it when I get a bit of time (the creation process looks a bit more involved than the "simple" WinRE version). But I would still like to know why the "simple" WinRE media won't boot. Am I the only one with this problem - if so, what could I be doing wrong?
BTW, I also downloaded the Log Viewer program from Community Tools. Looking forward to trying it out. I am always frustrated when ATI just stops either with no indication as to why (just the message "has stopped", period), or when it does give a message, the message is something like "the operation has failed" (what operation? why?). Non-Stop Backup is usually the source of "has stopped" messages. The "has failed" message could also be Non-Stop, but I have no way of knowing as it happens randomly. Anyway, enough kvetching - I am hoping that the Log Viewer may shed some light. (When a backup finishes, successfully or not, you get a copy of the log in the email notification - but if no such email is sent ...)
Thanks again. I look forward to any further thoughts you may have.
Pete.
Hi Enchantech.
Machine specs:
Dell Inspiron 3847, 64-bit, running Win 7 Pro SP1, 8 GB RAM, 1 TB C-drive (SCSI, SATA III), Intel Core i5 4460 (Haswell 22 nm). If I have left anything important out, let me know.
My PC does not have UEFI.
I am pretty sure that the BIOS boot order has only one USB entry, but I will double check next time I reboot. In any case, I can boot to other Rescue Media (for other products, including ATI Universal Restore) using the same USB port, so I think the boot order must be OK - but I will double check.
Thanks for your help.
Pete.
Pete,
You should check to see if WinRE is enabled on your computer.
From an Admin Command Prompt type:
reagentc /info
The first line of the output of that command will tell you if Windows RE is enabled.
Enchantech,
Ran the suggested command - results:
Windows RE enabled: 1
Windows RE staged: 0
Setup enabled: 0
Custom Recovery Tool: 0
So it appears to be enabled. Not sure what "staged" means or if it's relevant.
Pete,
It shows that Windows RE is enabled so the question now is does WinRE function as intended?
Can you verify that WinRE.wim is in the following location?
path: C:\windows\system32\recovery
If yes can you successfully build a Windows Recovery Media using the Windows 7 System Repair tool? Hopefully you have a CD/DVD drive to do so. This will answer the question if in fact the WinRE works or not.
- Click Start , and then click Control Panel.
- Under System and Security, click Back up your computer. ...
- Click Create a system repair disc. ...
- Select a CD/DVD drive and insert a blank disc into the drive. ...
- When the repair disc is complete, click Close.
Once you have this disc created attempt to boot to it and see if it loads.
Enchantech,
Firstly in answer to an earlier question, my BIOS boot order is:
1. USB Floppy Device
2. USB Storage Device
3. Internal ODD Device
4. Onboard NIC Device
5. Internal HDD Device
I created the System Repair Disc on a CD successfully (at least it said it was finished). I then booted to the CD - it recognized that the CD had a boot record because it asked me to press spacebar to boot from the CD, then it spent about a minute loading files followed by a progress bar labelled "Microsoft Corporation" for 2-3 seconds. Then I got a wallpaper-like screen (sky blue with white streaky lines, a few green leaves and a small white bird). After a few more seconds the mouse pointer appeared, which I could move around. Nothing much else happened after that - except I got the "busy" blue circle for about ten seconds, then back to the wallpaper and mouse cursor. The first time I left it for about ten minutes but when nothing further happened, I "crashed" the PC to shut it down. I tried booting twice more with the same result.
So it looks as though you might be right - WinRE just isn't working (on my PC at least). However, the behaviour is different between Rescue CD and ATI Rescue thumbdrive: The former actually booted from the CD, loaded files, etc., it just hung before it got to displaying the Rescue menu; whereas the thumbdrive just flashed its light briefly and the PC then went on to boot from the hard drive (ie, didn't recognize a usable boot record on the thumbdrive).
I looked at the files and folders on the CD - they look similar to those on the thumbdrive:
bootmgr 375 KB (same size as on thumbdrive)
boot (folder)
bcd 256 KB
boot.sdi 3,096 KB
bootfix.bin 1 KB
sources (folder)
boot.wim 179,417 KB
I have on hand a Windows Rescue CD burned a few years ago, so I had a look at that. Its file/folder structure is exactly the same as on the CD just created, even the file sizes - except for "boot.wim" which is shorter at 169,102 KB. So next I tried booting to the older CD. It booted the same way and looked as though it was going to hang in the same manner - but I was wrong: after about three minutes with the blue screen and mouse pointer, it threw a dialogue box with an error code: "Error 0x40011002000001012". I did a search on this and apparently it is a known problem going back to 2009! It appears to affect only Dell PCs (which I have) under certain circumstances (which I believe now apply to me also). There are workarounds available, but it seems that the standard Windows 7 Rescue CD is not going to work for me anymore (I know that I tested the older Rescue CD after it was created, but the special circumstances didn't apply then).
In any case, I don't think that this applies to the ATI Rescue Media (but I could be wrong) - the symptoms are different.
Pete.
There may be a setting in your BIOS that needs to be changed to allow USB booting. It sounds like your BIOS is stopping the USB boot immediately. However, if you do find a BIOS setting is the problem, the ATI media from WinRE will still not boot with the same symptoms as the Windows Repair disk.
You could try creating the ATI WinRE media on CD to see how that acts.
Pete,
Mustang makes good points. In your OP you said that you chose the Simple method using the True Image Media Builder to create a WinRE thumb drive so obviously that will not or is not working.
The Media Builder tool places two boot files on the media. They are bootmgr - to boot non-UEFI systems and bootmgr.efi - used to boot UEFI systems. These two files will show up in the boot priority order in a machine bios IF the machine has a UEFI capable motherboard. You can tell them apart because the UEFI boot manager will begin with UEFI in the name of the boot device in the list whereas the non-UEFI boot manager file will not have the UEFI reference. Do you see any reference to UEFI in your boot order list?
If the above is not a factor than I would suggest that you use the Media Builder tool to create a WinPE version of the media. This requires that you download the Windows ADK and install it which when you do will provide new files for the media to use for booting.
When you run the ADK installer you will be presented a screen from which to select components to install. The first 3 in the list are all that are necessary for WinPE creation.
Mustang and Enchantech,
Well, this has been a big learning experience for me. I started this round by creating a WinPE Rescue thumbdrive (which I had resolved to do anyway, having given up on WinRE). It took about an hour to complete (after a couple of false starts). Then to test it. I booted to the new WinPE thumbdrive - and was disappointed when the PC ignored it and booted to normal Windows!
So I then went in to BIOS setup once more to see if I could find any trace of "UEFI" (as suggested). In the Boot page, it clearly said "Legacy Mode" with no mention of UEFI in the comments. Then I realized that "Legacy Mode" looked like a selectable option [it had square brackets around it], so I hit ENTER and got a menu with choice of "Legacy Mode" or "UEFI"! I have had this PC for four years and never noticed this - there was never any mention of the UEFI option (it arrived defaulted to "Legacy"). Of course I changed it to UEFI. Now I found that UEFI Mode had its own boot order, with C-Drive as #1. So I changed the boot order to the same as that in Legacy mode, left the BIOS in UEFI mode and rebooted. This time it booted successfully to the WinPE thumbdrive and I was able (finally) to test ATI Recovery by recovering a backed-up file. I rebooted again, this time with the original WinRE thumbdrive - and it now booted successfully also.
I left the BIOS in UEFI mode and attempted to boot normally to Windows, but it failed to boot. So right now I have set the BIOS back to Legacy mode so that I can boot Windows. Obviously I have to learn all about UEFI (this my first PC with UEFI as an option, and I never knew it was there!).
So thank you to all who helped here (Steve Smith, Enchantech, Mustang).
In the wash-up, there is still an unanswered question: as both the WinRE and WinPE drives have boot files for both Legacy and UEFI modes, why don't they use both? In my case, I was set to Legacy mode which had USB drive first in the boot order - apparently the bootmgr.efi was tried first (probably the default now because UEFI is progressively replacing Legacy). If bootmgr.efi failed because BIOS was in Legacy mode, wouldn't you expect it then to attempt to boot to the Legacy bootmgr before moving to the next device in the boot order? The Universal Restore drive also has both bootmgr and bootmgr.efi and it successfully booted in Legacy mode, so either it tried both boots or for some reason it defaults to Legacy mode. Also Rescue media for other products boot successfully in Legacy mode and they also have both bootmgr and bootmgr.efi (or maybe they only attempt to boot from bootmgr - I haven't yet tried booting them in UEFI mode).
Or ... maybe it works quite differently. If the BIOS is in Legacy Mode, it only attempts to boot to bootmgr. If the BIOS is in UEFI mode, it only attempts to boot to bootmgr.efi. That would make sense - all of these thumbdrives have boot files with the exact-same file names (bootmgr and boomgr.efi) - why have both if you can only boot from one of them? All of which suggests that the file "bootmgr" in the ATI Rescue Media is faulty and unbootable, and only bootmgr.efi in UEFI mode works (but in other Rescue drives, bootmgr IS bootable, including in ATI's own Universal Restore whose Rescue media is created using a different process). The more that I think about it, this second explanation has to be the way it works - if in Legacy mode, BIOS attempts to find and boot from "bootmgr" file; if in UEFI mode, BIOS attempts to find and boot from "bootmgr.efi" file. If the corresponding boot file is not found (or won't boot), the BIOS moves on to the next device in the boot order. At least, that's how I would write the code.
Anyway, to conclude this saga, I would be interested to hear any comments on my post-mortem. If you don't have the time, that's OK. I have certainly learned a lot about how booting and BIOS modes work (and that my PC has a UEFI mode that after four years I still didn't know about!).
Thanks again, everyone.
Pete.
Pete,
Interesting feedback! So your machine is UEFI capable, I suspected so. When you changed you boot mode in your bios from Legacy to UEFI did you have any other choices like UEFI/Legacy CSM?
I think you should have. What I think will correct things for you is to set boot mode to UEFI/Legacy CSM - Legacy first which should be an option. You should also have the option to do the opposite, UEFI/Legacy CSM - UEIF first.
If set to UEFI/Legacy CSM - Legacy first your machine will look for the bootmgr file first to boot from thus solving your issue when attempting to boot either your system hard drive or a rescue media device.
You still haven't figured out the problem in your BIOS. It is related to USB, because the recovery media boots in Legacy mode from a CD. My Bios has a setting called USB Legacy Support. It is set to Enabled. There may be a similar setting in your BIOS that is set to Disabled. The recovery media is definitely capable of booting in both UEFI and Legacy mode. You need to boot the media in Legacy mode for disk restores of your Windows 7 system to work properly. This is very important.
Enchantech, Mustang,
Your latest posts have made me doubt my brilliant (!) deduction on how Legacy/UEFI booting works and my conclusion that bootmgr in ATI Rescue Media is faulty. My knowledge of UEFI has been rudimentary. I read all about it when it first started being implemented, but as my then PC didn't have it and my current PC has been working fine for four years with default Legacy Mode, I have had no experience with it.
So I went into the BIOS and selected every selectable parameter on the boot screen, pressed ENTER to display the options, and then photographed each one - first when set to Legacy Mode and again when set to UEFI Mode. The basic difference is that two parameters that are greyed out in Legacy Mode become selectable in UEFI Mode. (BTW, my BIOS is AMI Aptio, version A09.) These greyed-out parameters are:
Secure Boot Control [Disabled]
Load Legacy OPROM [Enabled]
They become accessible in UEFI Mode.
The Help info for Secure Boot Control says: "Secure Boot Control can be enabled only when Platform Key (PK) is enrolled and Platform is operating in User mode". Which means nothing to my feeble brain.
The Help info for Load Legacy OPROM says: "This option controls whether CSM should be loaded during POST". Which I think is what you were talking about. It was enabled by default, even in Legacy Mode. There is no option about priority for trying Legacy or UEFI boot first. As best I can tell, the BIOS was already set for optimum booting in either mode, given the options available. You may disagree.
All this may be academic. I conducted an experiment which (IMO) is fairly conclusive. I have four Rescue Media thumbdrives: two were created using ATI Media Builder process (one with WinRE, the other WinPE), one was created using the ATI Universal Restore wizard, and the remaining drive is for another backup product that I also use (I believe in having multiple backups using at least two separate backup products). The four drives are all Lexar 16 GB. The experiment was to boot in turn to each of the four drives, first with the BIOS in UEFI Mode, then again in Legacy Mode. All worked fine in UEFI Mode. Two also worked fine in Legacy Mode, which suggests that the BIOS as-is is quite capable of handling thumbdrives in either mode. The two that failed to boot in Legacy mode were the ATI WinRE and WinPE drives - the only thing that they have in common is that both were created by the ATI Media Builder process (the Universal Restore media drive was created using a different ATI process). This suggests (as per my previous theory) that the Legacy bootmgr written to the drives (probably the same for both WinRE and WinPE) by ATI Media Builder is somehow faulty and unbootable. Can you see any flaw in this logic?
Pete.
There is something strange at your end. I have a Windows 7 SP1 x64 system with ATI 2019 build 14690 installed. I was able to create the media using the Simple method (WinRE). I put it on a USB flash drive and it booted in both UEFI and Legacy modes.
I have two suggestions. First, uninstall TI 2019 and then reinstall it. Sometimes installing ATI over the top of an existing version causes problems. Second, download and run the latest version of the MVP Tool from the following link:
http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MVP_ATIPEBuilder/Advanced/MVP_ATIPEBuilder_v186.zip
Select the build from WinRE option when running the MVP Tool. See if that gives you a USB drive that boots in Legacy mode.
Pete,
Thanks for providing the Bios information. I have had a look at the AMI site for the Aptio bios configuration document. I have found some information for you and have some suggestions. Keep in mind that the document I have read may not be exactly what you have as OEM builders can change the implementation of these things but I am confident we are fairly close here.
When you boot to the bios the screen defaults to the Main screen tab that has general settings like time, date, etc.
At the top you can choose additional screens which I'm sure you know. The next screen after Main is Advanced. Selecting the Advanced screen.
On this Advanced screen you should see options to set the following:
- PCI Subsystem Settings
- ACPI Settings
- CPU Configuration
- SATA Configuration
- USB Configuration
- Serial Port Console Redirection
You need to look and possibly set two of these here. They are:
- PCI Subsystem Settings
- USB Configuration
Select PCI Subsystem Settings, you will or should see on this screen an entry for PCI ROM Priority. What I see in the document I have are two choices here. They are:
- Legacy ROM
- EFI Compatible ROM
I suspect that having this option set to Legacy ROM will launch only the Legacy boot option for your board while leaving EFI compatible or UEFI boot disabled. In your case since you are running Win 7 and not using UEFI you should set this option to
- Legacy ROM
The next setting you need to look at and possibly change from the Advanced screen is the USB Configuration setting. Select this option and on the screen that appears look for Legacy USB Support. Set this to Enabled.
I believe that with these changes you should be able to boot the medias you have in Legacy mode on your board.
Let us know!
Thanks to you both for staying with me on this - much appreciated.
Enchantech,
I looked up the AMI website and found a PDF for "Aptio TSE User Manual" which seems to be what you may have been referring to. It was last updated in 2012 - my BIOS is copyrighted 2013, so about the right timeframe. However, my BIOS screens are a lot less busy (and fewer) than the ones in the User Manual. I suspect that the product which the manual covers includes all possibilities. And my BIOS has been severely edited (by Dell) to remove features that my PC doesn't have.
Anyway, I had a look at the BIOS Advanced screen - contains only three items:-
1. Processor Configuration (six suboptions concerning CPU features)
2. USB Configuration (corresponding to your item 5, but only has two suboptions - to enable/disable the front and rear USB ports)
3. Onboard Device Configuration (five suboptions for: Audio Controller, SATA Mode, Intel Multi-Display, LAN Controller, LAN Boot ROM)
There is no PCI Subsystem Settings (your item 1), and nothing I could find with options of Legacy Mode vs EFI Compatible ROM. And there is no Legacy USB Support option in USB Configuration (just enable/disable front and rear USB ports).
So I conclude that the available settings are intended to be sufficient in supporting Legacy Mode - as they have been in the four years I have had this machine - up until now. The only thing that doesn't work in Legacy Mode is any USB media created by ATI Media Builder.
Mustang,
Interesting that you can get WinRE media from ATI 2019 to work in Legacy Mode. Which narrows down the possibilities. It now seems that the problem may be an incompatibility between ATI Media Builder output and the BIOS in my machine. Media created by other builders all work OK (including ATI 2019 Universal Restore).
Which raises a question I have had in mind (and I think I mentioned earlier). If I have a working Universal Restore thumbdrive, do I even need media from the Media Builder? When testing Universal Restore (in both Legacy and UEFI Modes), one of the menu options was Acronis True Image (which is what you end up with when you successfully boot from a WinRE or WinPE drive - only in UEFI mode in my case). As part of my testing, I was able to restore some files with Universal Restore from a recent entire disk backup. So why do we need a separate rescue drive from Media Builder? (The other backup product I use has only one Rescue drive for restoring to different hardware, such as a new C: drive, or to the same hardware, such as after a software corruption.)
I haven't had time as yet to try your suggestions, but will try to allocate the necessary time over the next day or so (holidays notwithstanding!).
Thanks again, Guys.
You say you restored files using the Universal Restore disk. The Universal Restore application can't restore files. That makes me think you have a Linux based disk made with the both ATI 2019 and Universal Restore on the same disk. That could explain the difference in bootability between that disk and the ATI 2019 WinRE disk.
I concur with Mustang here. Based on your responses I think your WinRE is broken on your system. In that case a WinPE media is the next best thing. If you can boot media on a USB thumb drive then obviously that in itself is not the problem. So even though you have no settings in your bios to enable or disable such a feature by default it is operable.
You will need to download the Windows 7 ADK and install it as discussed previously to create the WinPE media. Give that a go and I think you will see success.
Reviewing what I selected in the Universal Restore wizard, on the first screen I accepted the default values - that is: Bootable media type (Linux-based media); Windows-like representation. So it looks as though you were right - I did end up with a Linux drive emulating Windows. Sorry for any confusion! On a subsequent page of the wizard for "Acronis components to place on the bootable media", I selected True Image and Universal Restore - hence I have both on this drive and therefore probably don't need the Media Builder drives that don't work. What do you think?
Regarding creating WinPE media through Media Builder to replace the WinRE version, I already did that and tested it last week. The WinPE version failed to work also (otherwise I would have finalized this thread).
Pegleg Pete wrote:Mustang and Enchantech,
Well, this has been a big learning experience for me. I started this round by creating a WinPE Rescue thumbdrive (which I had resolved to do anyway, having given up on WinRE). It took about an hour to complete (after a couple of false starts). Then to test it. I booted to the new WinPE thumbdrive - and was disappointed when the PC ignored it and booted to normal Windows!
Just to be sure, I took another flash drive (SanDisk Cruzer 8 GB) which already had some files on it (I had run out of new drives) and did a full format (FAT32) on it - just to get a known base level. I created in turn three Rescue Media setups and tested them (using Legacy Mode boot):-
1. Universal Restore - I ran the wizard very carefully, with the following selections:
a) Selected Windows PE (instead of the default "Linux-based media"); checked Create x64 media; and Create WinPE automatically (it extracted 153 files in a CMD window from the WADK which I had downloaded and installed previously).
b) Advanced to the Select Media Output page of the wizard - four options:
* Acronis PXE Server (I believe that this is for restoring over a network ??)
* CD-RW Drive (identified my Optical Drive)
* ISO Image (for burning to DVD/CD)
* WIM Image (not sure how to use this)
Note that there was no option to output to USB - even though the page header states "You can create CD, DVD or OTHER BOOTABLE MEDIA ...". Perhaps you have to process further one of the four output options in some way after creation (WIM maybe ??). I gave up at this point.
2. Media Builder - I had already created and tested WinPE media created by Media Builder more than once - it had failed, as noted above. Thought I would give it one last try, using the Cruzer drive and carefully following the Media Builder options and instructions. Tested again (in Legacy Mode - I already knew it works in UEFI Mode) and of course it failed to boot again.
3. WinRE - The other backup program's Rescue Media was created using WinPE 5, the default option (even though WinPE 5 is based on Windows 8.1/10 and I have Windows 7 SP1 - but it works OK anyway). It boots OK in both Legacy and UEFI modes. However, it also has a WinRE option. So using my trusty Cruzer once more, I used it to create a WinRE Rescue Media from my other backup program. It booted successfully.
Conclusions:
1. I can't see how to create a WinPE flash drive using the Universal Restore wizard. Maybe it is a restriction (even though it says it works on "other bootable media" - and, yes, I had the flash drive plugged in when I ran the wizard). So I have been unable to test Universal Restore using WinPE. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
2. WinPE still doesn't work in Legacy Mode when created by Media Builder. And of course neither does WinRE.
3. The WinRE version of the Rescue Media for the other backup program boots just fine. In fact it boots looking almost the same as a normal Win7 boot (except for screen resolution). So WinRE does appear to work on this PC (for one Rescue Media at least).
My next step is to try to create a WinPE Rescue drive using the ATI MVP version. I had already downloaded the ZIP file from the Community Tools page, and now I have also downloaded the one recommended by Mustang. Looking at the contents of the ZIP files side by side, they look pretty much the same - the main difference being that the mechrest.com version has more drivers (Windows 7) and the file MVP_ATIPEBuilder.exe is considerably larger and more recently updated. I think that I will try the mechrest.com one if it is stable (it was updated only a few days ago). I'll let you know the outcome.
Cheers - and Happy Holidays.
I can't see how to create a WinPE flash drive using the Universal Restore wizard. Maybe it is a restriction (even though it says it works on "other bootable media" - and, yes, I had the flash drive plugged in when I ran the wizard). So I have been unable to test Universal Restore using WinPE. Any insight into this would be appreciated.
Use the MVP Custom ATIPE Builder tool script for this - it will add all installed Acronis applications found on your computer - so I have ATI 2019, Universal Restore and Disk Director 12 on my USB rescue stick created with WinPE (using the Windows 10 ADK) along with the other 'goodies' added by the MVP tool (file manager, web browser, image capture, PDF reader etc).
To use any of the tools, simply launch from the menu button on the booted stick!
Steve,
Looks to be a very comprehensive set of tools. I will do this after Christmas (only two hours until Christmas Day in my time zone).
Thanks for your input.
I have now created the ATI MVP version of WinPE onto a flash drive, and tested it in both Legacy and UEFI modes. I have been given links to two versions of the ZIP file for the MVP WinPE - one from Acronis Community Tools and one from mechrest.com. Both versions are basically the same, the main difference being that the install program from mechrest.com is larger (and presumably has more "goodies"?), is more recent and has a later version number (18.6 vs 18.2). So I chose the later version. The install program (MVP_ATIPEBuilder.exe) ran very smoothly and successfully. I have since booted the flash drive successfully in both Legacy and UEFI modes, and successfully recovered files from a disk image in both modes using ATI. The flash drive also includes Universal Restore and Disk Director (which I haven't tested). Other tools include file explorers, Opera browser, ability to set screen resolution, PDF viewer, and other tools.
This is so much better than flash drives created using the ATI Media Builder (WinRE and WinPE) which, for whatever reason, will not boot on my machine in Legacy Mode (but work OK in UEFI mode which I am not using). As it apparently works for others, I can only assume that there is some problem with my AMI Aptio BIOS as modified by or for Dell to suit my Windows 7 Pro system, that is not compatible with ATI Media Builder.
Anyway, the MVP version is much more comprehensive (probably why it was created by MVPs) and actually works for me, so I think that this resolves the issue for me. I will use this new flash Rescue Media if I ever need to, and I also have the Linux version Universal Restore flash drive which includes ATI as an alternative.
So thank you to Steve Smith, Enchantech and Mustang for perservering with me and my problem for so long. Your efforts and patience have been much appreciated.
Best regards, and Happy New Year (coming up) to all.
Pete.
Pete, the latest official MVP version of the PE builder is 18.2 - I have no idea what the one from the other website is with a version of 18.6 but I would be suspicious of any not coming from this Acronis site!
Pete,
Thanks for reporting your success. The changes made to version 18.6 are mainly aimed at Windows 7 users. The build from WinRE option doesn't work on Windows 7 systems in the current version. The reason version 18.6 is so much larger is that USB 3.0 and NVMe hotfix support has been added for builds created with the Windows 7 WinRE option.
Steve,
The link provided above is to my website and is safe. I created the new version 18.6 myself. Acronis has already tested and approved the new version. We are still waiting for them to digitally sign it and upload it to the knowledge base before uploading it to the MVP Google drive.
Paul, thanks for confirming about the 18.6 version - sorry must have skipped over your earlier post where you gave Pete the link to download this! Have downloaded a copy myself to have a play with while we wait for Acronis to sign it as official and upload it for general use!
Pete,
Great news on your success with boot media finally. The MVP Media Builder tool is a more robust tool than can be produced via the Acronis Media Builder as you point out. We appreciate your using it and it is always great to hear of user success with it.
Paul did a great job on the latest 18.6 version which now supports more hardware and system configurations than the previous versions. I just used it myself over the Holidays to migrate a Win 10 raid 0 array without a hitch as I expected it to do.
Thanks for the accolades.
I was particularly impressed with how smoothly and intuitively the creation process went, and how clearly it was expressed - even though it was text-based.
When I booted to the media, I tested out the various tools. Curious about one of them: when I tried to start BlackBox it said it was already running. I did a search for it, but "black box" can refer to just about anything. The only vaguely computer system references I found related to X-Windows and Pascal - neither of which seems relevant here. What does it do in the Rescue Media? Just curious.
Thanks again, everyone.
Pete,
Black Box Lean is an alternative shell for WinPE. The standard WinPE uses the command window as the shell. The MVP Tool uses a combination of LaunchBar and Black Box Lean as the shell. LaunchBar provides the start menu and Black Box Lean provides the Box in the lower right corner that shows running applications.
I'd like to learn why the Acronis WinPE media won't boot on your system. I think WinRE on your system is working. I think the problem is in the boot files the Acronis Media Builder setup on the media. There are only a few files needed for legacy boot. Would you be willing to substitute these files one at a tome to pin down the problem? You can do this by taking the files from the MVP Tool media and replacing them on the Acronis media.
Files to change:
bootmgr in the root of the media.
boot.sdi in \Boot
BCD in \Boot
You can also try deleting the folder \Boot\Resources. It is a placeholder for bootres.dll that isn't used in the Windows 7 version of WinPE. Please let me know if you are able to get the Acronis media to boot in legacy mode.
Mustang,
Thanks for your explanation of Black Box.
I have performed the tests you asked for. This is what I did, and the results:
1) Since I had returned the thumb drives I was testing with earlier to my pool of spare drives, I started by recreating the WinRE media using Media Builder.
2) Before making any changes, did a test boot to the newly created WinRE media - as expected, the PC ignored the Rescue Media and booted straight to normal Windows 7.
3) Copied bootmgr from the MVP WinPE media root folder across to the new WinRE media, replacing the original bootmgr there - test booted - BIOS ignored the media and booted to Win 7.
4) Copied both BCD and boot.sdi from \Boot across to the new WinRE media - still no improvement.
5) Finally, deleted \Boot\Resources folder - made no difference, still booted straight to normal Win 7.
So as far as WinRE from Media Builder is concerned - it's business as usual.
Also set out to try the same tests with a WinPE version.
1) Created a new WinPE version from Media Builder. While it was building, I didn't notice it incorporating the ADK files (and I did select the Win 10 version of WinPE). Previously, a CMD window had opened up and 53 ADK files were read from the installed ADK application. I didn't see that this time, but it is usually very quick so it is possible I may have just looked away from the screen at the wrong time. Anyway, the media was created successfully.
2) Once again, before making any of the test changes I booted (Legacy Mode) to the newly created WinPE (Win 10) media before making any test changes - and shock! horror! it booted to the media! I have only had time so far to try that one boot, so there is a lot more investigation yet to do. I will retry the boot and then create another WinPE Rescue Media to confirm it. However, I have previously created three (3) WinPE Rescue Media from Media Builder - all failed to boot in Legacy Mode. Have yet to try UEFI Mode.
Possibilities that come to mind:
a) I might have selected different options when creating the latest media (though I don't think so); or
b) Here's a wild thought - the only thing that has happened between the last of the three faulty WinPEs and this latest one that works is: I have created the MVP WinPE media. Is it possible that the latter media creation process could have updated one or more of the base files that go into WinPE media (a .wim file for example)?
Anyway, it's going to be another day or two before I can complete my investigation, so I thought I would give you an interim report. Maybe you have some ideas. But it was quite a shock after three failed WinPE drives from Media Builder to see the fourth one suddenly work without modification!
Thanks for your tests. I can't explain why your results would change with the WinPE version from the Acronis Media Builder.
I would like you to test building with the MVP Tool and selecting the build from WinRE option at the first question. If that works, try to use the files from that version to repair the WinRE version from the Acronis Media Builder. That may work.
Booted again to the newly created WinPE Acronis Builder media to satisfy myself that I hadn't dreamt that it booted OK. It still booted OK - in both Legacy and UEFI modes. So just to prove that it wasn't a fluke, I re-created the WinPE using Acronis Media Builder and tested again - it booted OK in both modes again. Still a mystery.
Now test-booted again the most recent WinRE created by Media Builder - still fails to boot in Legacy, but boots OK in UEFI.
As per your request, I created a new drive selecting WinRE from the MVP Rescue Media tool (v18.6). It created OK, but I was a little unsure during the process as the progress dialogue kept referring to "WinPE" instead of the expected "WinRE". I was reassured when the dialogue displayed "mounting winre.wim". Just a suggestion: when the MVP process is next updated, maybe display in the process dialogue "WinPE" or "WinRE" as per the user selection, or simply replace "WinPE" with an agnostic "selected media format" or similar?
One odd thing though which is probably unrelated: the creation process had just finished and the dialogue closed, I started navigating Windows Explorer to have a look at the files just created. About 2-3 seconds after the dialogue closed, the PC blue-screened. Probably a coincidence, but I haven't had a blue screen for years. I was so surprised that I forgot to make a note of the Stop Code until it was too late. However, the PC has been OK since (touch wood!).
Test-booted the new MVP WinRE drive in Legacy mode (haven't bothered at this point testing UEFI as I don't use or need it - unless you want me too). Booted just fine.
Then I started the process of copying one at a time the specified files from the new MVP WinRE across to replace the corresponding files on the most recent Media Builder WinRE (which does not work in Legacy Mode). Interesting to note that the three files in the Media Builder WinRE had recent dates in 2018, whereas the files from MVP WinRE were all dates in 2011! So very old files. Rebooted after each file move. In each case, the Media Builder WinRE (as modified) failed to boot - instead the drive was ignored and normal Win 7 booted.
There are a number of other "boot" files in the Media Builder WinRE drive in various folders (eg, bootmgr.exe.mui in the \Boot language folders, a different length file for each language, even between en-gb and en-us (probably just language text); boot.wim in folder \sources - there are others, but they all have "efi" in the file name, so I am discounting those). Maybe one of these is the source of the problem?
Speaking of languages, this is a longshot - my Windows Region Format is "English (Australia)". Only "en-gb" and "en-us" are English options in the WinRE media. I have been assuming that if one's Region Format language is not found in the media, it will default to "en-us". In fact in the MVP media "en-us" is the ONLY option. My PC is a little different: while my Region Format is "English (Australia)", in fact I have customized my US keyboard to add some foreign language characters (with diacritic marks). I doubt that this has anything to do with anything - but presumably the PC's Region format would be built into the Media Builder files somewhere. Perhaps my modified US keyboard format is confusing it? Again, I doubt that this has anything to do with the problem - just throwing it out there.
If there is anything else you would like me to try, let me know.
Thanks again for the detailed testing. I'm glad to hear the MVP WinRE option booted successfully in Legacy mode. I guess we're just not going to be able to figure out why the Acronis Media Builder WinRE media fails to boot in Legacy mode. I don't understand enough about how the language issue in handled by WinPE/WinRE to know if that is a factor here.
Thanks once again to all of you MVPs. While we didn't find and fix the Media Builder WinRE problem in Legacy Mode, along the way the Media Builder WinPE problem in Legacy suddenly went away for reasons unknown, and we were able to test successfully the MVP Rescue Media in both WinPE and WinRE formats.
So I now have at my disposal and working in Legacy: ATI Media Builder WinPE (working for now), ATI Universal Restore (Linux format), and MVP Rescue Media in either WinPE or WinRE format.
Thanks again, and Happy New Year!
Pete.