can you clone from larger to smaller disks?

It will be easier and safer to make a backup and restore to the desired disk. This way you don't automatically delete exiting partions while getting the image and you have an extra copy of the image (original disk plus the backup) in case anything goes wrong (power outage during mid-operation, etc.). Do a manual restore and you can set the partitions sizes. Check out Grover's Guides under the Useful Links to the left of the forums page.

Hi, my short answer is why do that when the target disk is already devoid of any data? I have folks on other boards who tell me they can use TI to clone from larger to smaller with no problems. That does not seem to be allowed, which was my original question - will the clone feature allow cloning from a larger HDD to a smaller HDD if the space used is not larger than the target HDD? Note: i have a single 320GB partiton

BTW, I'm not deleting existing partitions, the target disk is empty - nothing on it. It's just smaller than the source HDD.

I do not want my original or source disk to be disturbed.

I have both True Image and Disk Director. Disk director will copy the 320GB to a 100GB (as long as the 320GB has less than 100GB used space). It does this quite well. It also messes up the target disk MBR quite well and XP with its boot.ini and hal.dll nonsense cause me no end of grief. That's why i am experiminting with TI but it doesn't seem to want to allow what i need to do.

Scott Hieber wrote:

It will be easier and safer to make a backup and restore to the desired disk. This way you don't automatically delete exiting partions while getting the image and you have an extra copy of the image (original disk plus the backup) in case anything goes wrong (power outage during mid-operation, etc.). Do a manual restore and you can set the partitions sizes. Check out Grover's Guides under the Useful Links to the left of the forums page.

Scott, If i want to go down this route, what would i back up the 320GB to? I have a couple of 250GB disks that i do not boot from, either of them can hold a disk image (approx 100GB free on each disk). Will it fit or do i need a disk with 320GB free on it??? Would I: 1. make a bootable CD (haven't done this yet since i have not needed one) 2. backup the 320GB to an image stored on the 250GB HDD 3. Put my new blank 100GB in the IDE master bay, put the 250GB (with the backup image on it) in the slave bay (the thinkpad's ultrabay) and boot the TI bootable CD 4. Restore the image of the 250GB onto the blank 100GB Is this a valid process or will i have to find a disk with 500GB free - which will then raise the problem of restoring the image to a smaller drive even though the total used space is only half the capacity of the smaller drive. One immediate issue is that this would require a "third spindle" because i would need to have a bootable CD, the HDD with the backup and the new HDD all installed, and there aren't that many bays in a Thinkpad. Again I don't have a USB HDD enclosure, but i could possibly find one. I'd rather not spend the $$, especially since the produce theoreticaly should allow a straightforward disk clone from a to b. This is why i liked windoze 98. I'm looking at grovers guides - they appear to indicate that cloning from a larger to a smaller HDD is feasible, but i can't get TI to let me select a smaller target HDD when I try. I'm not worried about power outages - it's a Thinkpad with a good battery in it.

The guides which will be most helpful is the ones listed as 3-CC or 3-DD. While not specific to IBM, the Compaq illustration is the closest. It is also possible to restore only one partition at a time. Be sure you have your current disk characteristics written down so you can verify the correct active partition and adjust partition sizes as needed. Only the main user partition size should be changed.

I responded to your other posting. If you have other questions, it might help if you were to post a picture of your disk partitions as shown in Windows Disk Management graphical view.

Grover,

I read 3-DD and that got me thinking why wouldn't TI let me put the 320GB onto the empty 100GB.

What is windows disk management never heard of it? where iis t? Please don't say the install CD because these thinkpads came with restore CDs not real XP install CDs.

I know my disks quite well and even after 3 beers i won't trash my original hitachi. ;-)

On the other post i'll reply there, but using a boot CD requires 3 bays or an external enclosure for the 2nd HDD which i do not have at the present. My Thinkpad has only 2 bays.

On the inability to clone 320 to 100:

I have the restore partition at the end of the drive, that's the way IBM did it back in the T20 - T30 era. Maybe that is what is causing Acronis true image to not allow the 100GB as a target because it sees stuff at both ends of a 320 drive. hmmmm.....
I can test this by deleting the restore partition, and just leaving the free space at the end.

Then i can fire up TI and see what it allows me to do. I can always copy over the restore partition from my original HDD later. Heck, i probably don't even need the restore partition on the 320GB HDDs if i can ever get a good 2nd 100 GB with it.

On overall progress:

Still in limbo - finally got everything set to go at approx 0300; USB wouldn't show the drive, etc, USB would not boot (never did, but i might try one more time), slow hotel narrowband speed took forever to DL, had to tidy up the source HDD, had to take it out of it's thinkpad caddy to fit in one of the USB enclosures.....

Source drive in a USB enclosure - had to direct connect it for the drive to be seen at all
Target drive in the master internal bay ("permanent" or "boot "bay)
bootable acronis CD in the ultrabay
CAC reader, USB floppy, etc all disconnected.

It STILL will not let me clone downward from 320GB to 100 GB even though only 48GB is used. So i decided to try 320 to 100.

Well after 4.5 hrs it's approx 1/3 of thew way done! It might actually finish by the time i get off duty.

On the inability to clone 320 to 100:

I have the restore partition at the end of the drive, that's the way IBM did it back in the T20 - T30 era. Maybe that is what is causing Acronis true image to not allow the 100GB as a target because it sees stuff at both ends of a 320 drive. hmmmm.....

Here is a link about the IBM special head geometry.
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=182787

Mike,
Understand where I am coming from. I am not employed by Acronis. I am not a technical person. I do not have nor used any of the IBM Thinkpads. My experience has been with the cloning or restoring of brands such as HP, Gateway, Compaq and some generic computers. The comments I have made about the characteristics of IBM are the accumulation of several years of being a member of the Acronis forums.

My comments are not meant to imply my way is the only way but that the methods I have suggested have worked for others when cloning or restoring to a Thinkpad. Usually, if there is problem cloning, the work around is to use the backup and restore method; or if it is the restore method that does not work, then use the cloning method. Usually one method will work when the right procedure of disk placement are used.

When trying to create a new disk, what has been found is that the target disk must be mounted within the computer (Ultra-bays have worked for others) . If the target disk is mounted in an USB enclosure or adapter, this usually will NOT produce a successful replacement disk for an IBM computer.

My reference to USB docking stations was to use them as a target for a backup; or use them as a source when restoring or cloning to the target inside the computer. As has been stated in all my guides, what seems to work best is for the target disk either to be blank (unallocated) or to use the Acronis Add Disk option to remove any existing partitions so the result is an unallocated disk as a starting point.

If you used all the "so called right procedures" and cloning has not proved successful, then my suggestion would be to create a disk option backup (check mark the disk) as to what is to be backed up. Prior to a backup, the source disk should be in its normal boot position. The restore procedure could be disk option restore (disk option checked) or restore each partition individually. It is the responsibility of the user to make sure and restore the partitions in the correct sequence and to assure that the correct partition is marked as active.

You are using the 2011 version (build 6942). If you have used other versions TrueImageHome, try a prior version. The bootable media download is available for prior registered versions.

The trial version of 2012 TrueImage Home is also available but with limitations. Any cloning must be done from within Windows. The bootable media CD can only be used for restoring--no backups and no cloning from the CD.

Hopefully, there is something within this posting which can be of assistance. Both your postings are covered..

Grover,

I never did say that i was using all the socalled right procedures. What I'm trying to do is figure out correct procedures (that i can work with) and reliably produce a working, bootable HDD.

Right now the machine is in the middle of a 12 hour clone process; booted the TI CD, source disk in the SLOW USB 1.1 enclosure, target disk in the normal boot positiion. It should finish by 1600 or 1700 EDT.

In the past I have sucessfully used DD to copy the main and restore partitions from my original Hitachi Travelstar to then new WDC 320GBs and got them to boot. These were then new HDDs so i didn't have any junked up partition tables to mess with.

I will definitely use the add new disk feature when working with any used disks - hadn't done that before because i didn't need to. learning a lot with this discourse, perhaps I'll get this down to a reliable process soon.

I read the linked wilder's articles - XFDISK?? Isn't that the old Paul Mace utility (i have it - somewhere). Didn't know if it could handle NTFS partitions.

Interesting how IBM uses 240 heads instead of 255. Figures

Someone in the old threads said installing the MBR should not touch the partition table. The partition table is part of the MBR (MBR is the 512 byte first physical sector on the disk and contains the boot code and the partition table)

Of course XP messing with the last 4 bytes of the boot code is the source of most of my problems as detailed here:

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.shtml

I must say, that everything i read continues to make me want to steer clear of the TI backup / restore functions, they don't suit my intentions (I back up my data files via normal copy to dedicated HDDs), they double the time needed, and are fraught with more perils than a direct partiton copy or disk clone procedure.

I'm still learning the clone / partiton copy issues with XP and will distill everything down, once i get it right. I've aready learned a lot from this forum.

Right now the machine is in the middle of a 12 hour clone process; booted the TI CD, source disk in the SLOW USB 1.1 enclosure, target disk in the normal boot positiion. It should finish by 1600 or 1700 EDT.

On first boot following clone, be sure only the single new target disk is attached. You do not want Windows to see two bootable disks.

I back up my data files via normal copy to dedicated HDDs

A very good idea. The freeware program "Replicator" does an outstanding job at this and it can be scheduled and it only copies the changes.

When you are finished here, it would be great if you would post a screen capture of your Windows Disk Management Graphical view of y our Thinkpad original (or new if they are the same) disk. I collect the capture as background information.

http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/misc/manufactu…

I will post the appropriate pictures.

I will look into replicator - because doing this by hand is a real PITA. I used to create batch execs to do this using XCOPY and REPLACE but then ms messed up those two commands, and with the exponential growth in the # of files i have rat-packed away, it's a royal pain doing it by hand.

And i will be certain to not let it boot before i take out the original drive

Here is the link. You do also have to do a one time install of the Visual Basic runtime shown at the link.
http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptreplicator.asp

You can run it manually or via schedules. It can copy a whole disk or isolated folders. It is quite flexible and it reports a summary and any errors.

short answer - larger to smaller (100GB w 51 used plus 2GB restore) to 80GB blank worked yesterday (this morning @0200).

details at 11 !

seriously got to get to work and a meeting.

And now, I'm heading home for the weekend so i'll post the details tonight or tomorrow, but i think this is solved.

Here's the final report:

Background:
I was looking for a disk clone solutuion - was pi$$ed of at symantec for butchering Partition Magic and then letting it wither and die. Settled on Acronis TI and Disk Director. Read that TI could not clone larger to smaller, so i got both and started off with DD.

Initially DD worked ok - I read about the New HDDs MBR getting hosed by winbloze, and potential HAL.DLL or BOOT.INI issues - saw them and was able to overcome them in the past. Then I got a HAL.DLL corrupt messae that would not go away. After this all, I think it was a procedural error on my part. because i was previously able to use DD to make booting clones.

Well on to TI because multiple replies in this and other forums say it CAN clone larger to smaller. Well it wouldn't for me and my first TI clone same size resulted in a disk that would not boot by itself - i needed an XP boot floppy to get it going.

Here's the final solution:

First i cleared all system unit and HDD passwords- they might not have mattered, but it was a possibility, especially if i booted the user PWs and the disks needed partition table updating.

Second, I used DISKPART / CLEAN on the new HDD (DO NOT DO THIS ON YOUR CURRENT HDD BY MISTAKE!!!!!), then used XP Disk Mgt to "initialize" the new HDD.

TI worked like a charm. TI's internal "add new disk" also works, but you have to let it run through and it makes TWO reboots of your computer, if you booted windows and ran from windows - unexpected and scary unless you are expecting it. DISKPART first is cleaner if you boot from windows and then run TI from windows.

Yes booting with the bootable CD i made and having the new / target disk in the IDE master bay and the original disk in a USB (if you have no other internal HDD bays) is the SAFEST method but it is also the SLOWEST, especialy if your machine only has USB 1.1 (which my ThinkPad T30s have).

It took OVER 15 HOURS to complete a 350 GB clone via the USB.

Well after the 15 hour marathon, I made 6 sucessful clones while running windows with the following configuration:
Original disk in master IDE bay
Target disk in ThinkPad ultra (secondary IDE) bay
Boot method Windows then run ATI from windows

Yes, that's 6 in a row, i performed DiskPart / Clean on 3 and ATI Add Disk on 3; both methods work and allow cloning from larger to smaller (which is what i really wanted to do!!!) Each took an hour or so to complete.

I hunted down two ThinkPad Dock Is with the intregal Ultrabay so i can boot the CD, and have the two disks in the bays (I'm never using the USB enclosure again!!!)

Note, i cannot boot from a USB stick - the T30 does not have that cabability so it's boot TI CD or boot windows.

I will grant this - Adronis TI is actually a powerful product that works through several annoying things that micosoft has done with XP. I do commend you on its functionality - the user interface could stand some refinement, and the users well, i can't seem to be able to downlod it, but again very good product.

Here's an update.

I got a couple of the old Thinkpad Dock, the ones with the itregal Ultrabay 2000.
Clone 100GB to 60GB
bootable CD in the dock,
original Hitachi 100GB HDD in primary boot bay of thinkpad
target 60GB Hitachi in the thinkpad's ultrabay.

It worked fine, booted the acronis CD, quick setup, to properly size the restore partition on the 60GB and off it went. Booting the CD is nice because it does not have to re-boot 1 or 2 times to perform the disk partitioning operations. Original and target both boot. The target HDD seems to be trying to load an Acronis scheduler of some sort. I'll have to find out what that is and post an item here if i can't get it stopped. I schedule my computer's activities - not some program that i didn't write.

No more USB enclosures for me!

Cannot clone my large 1.17 TB RAID h.d. to smaller SSD RAID h.d. using True Image 2012 Plus Pack but the 1.17 TB RAID h.d. is grayed out and I can't select it in the "select source drive" window.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Stephen Kupchack

hi there

ok i see this in google search about my acronis only cloning from large hd to small.

just so you you know there is a serious error in coding that can prevent this

i am searching around the net for any work arounds but i just cloned a 150 to a 600 in as is mode after both the proportoinal and automatic failed after the boot

i have been a paid user for at least 10 years and i finally noticed this behavior since i have to have a span of times to notice back up behavior who does that more than necessaty

good luck and cloning is the only reason i bought this software so save your naysaying and bowing down to the company for someone else i am  a practical person who whants expidient things that do thier job not software you have to work around or make excuses for like windows

Richard, these forum topics you have posted these comments to are all very old (5 or more years so) and relate to old / obsolete versions of Acronis True Image.

For any users considering cloning, whether from larger drives to smaller drives or the opposite, or even doing a one to one clone, then the key advice is always make a full disk backup before attempting this type of action.

See topic: [IMPORTANT] CLONING - How NOT to do this!!! for further advice on this subject - this applies to any cloning action for any version of this product, not just ATIH 2017 (the forum section where the topic was posted).