Cloning Laptop Drive - can Reverse Cloning recover a "bad" clone?
Hello! I found this forum, and reverse cloning, after I cloned and destroyed the original drive :(
Yes I know, why did I do that: but everything seemed to be working well. Then I started getting disk write errors and BSOD's every day (if I reboot manually every 24 hours I'm fine). I suspected a bad drive; cloned the clone to a new drive; problem still exists.
Of course it's possible my problem is unrelated; maybe a cosmic ray zapped some RAM or something. But I'd like to try this reverse cloning trick to see if it will help me.
1) do you think my problem *could* be due to cloning incorrectly?
2) do you think I can *recover* by cloning to external, then BACK to internal?
3) what magic is being performed by reverse cloning? Just curious.
BTW, old HDD was Sata I / 5400 RPM, new one is Sata II / 7200 RPM.
It's a Core 2 Duo laptop, MSI GX700, circa 2008.
I've visited the MSI forum to verify that this upgrade should be OK.
Thanks for your help!
I have my recovery CD ready to go (this time)
Yes chkdsk succeeded; Spinrite ran for 6 hours w/o finding anything; Windows Memory Diagnostic passed; WD Data Lifeguard tests passed.
Ran SFC just now; passed (but I'm glad you mentioned it!)
Is reverse cloning only used on a machine with custom geometry, or is it recommended for all HDD upgrades?
I should try a fresh install of Windows *shudder*
I tend to recommend doing the reverse cloning every time, but, according to other users, it is strictly necessary for the case of the special geometry.
Hmmm... Hard to see what is corrupted in your image.
What kind of write errors to do you get exactly, how do they manifest themselves? Also what are the error codes from the BSOD?
I am wondering if this is not just a bad driver issue. If you are comfortable with it, you can set Windows to create a minidump at each BSOD, download the debugging toolkit from Microsfot and use it to inspect the mini dumps. That would tell you where the issue is that is creating the BSOD.
You could simply reinstall Windows on top of what you have to see if that fixes anything.
Reverse cloning is really only necessary when the computer uses non-standard geometry for the internal drives. If both drives (the source and the desitination) are connected internally then it doesn't matter (unless different controllers are used and one uses non-standard geometry and the other doesn't). In any case, since the ultimate goal is usually to use the "clone" as a replacement to the original drive, it's going to have to be placed internally at some point. This means it's usually easier to just do a reverse clone, especially if you don't know what geometry is used in the computer.
If you know your computer uses standard drive geometry it makes things a lot easier because internal/external doesn't matter and the drives can be swapped around more easily.
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I would check the Windows Event Log and see if there are any details you missed. I've seen cases where the "disk error" didn't even refer to the Windows drive (it could be a flash drive, for example). The log will tell you which device it is and usually what type of error it is.
You could also run MEMTEST overnight and see if anything shows up. Bad RAM or marginal RAM can cause all sorts of problems.
Did you install a new program or update just before the problems started?
Hello again, and thank for your help!
Performed a clone to external last night (from downloaded Acronis recovery CD iso), in preparation for reverse clone tonight.
I should mention the *one* apparent problem on first boot up from a non-reverse clone (of which I've done several as I said): my installation of ZoneAlarm loses all its settings. It's an indication of *something* - of what I don't know! (to be clear, I did *not* boot from the clone I made last night - I made a backup clone)
I am wondering if this is not just a bad driver issue.
Perhaps a driver got lost in the transition as you say; but my Device manager shows no "question marks" that I can't account for.
Did you install a new program or update just before the problems started?
Yes, an ExpressCard USB 3.0 adapter. I uninstalled it & still experienced a BSOD.
You could also run MEMTEST overnight...
I ran Windows Memory Diagnostic overnight a while back...does that count?
I would check the Windows Event Log...
Here are some recurring Event Log messages:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: sr
Description: The System Restore filter encountered the unexpected error '0xC000009A' while processing the file '' on the volume 'HarddiskVolume1'. It has stopped monitoring the volume.
Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Ftdisk
Description: The system failed to flush data to the transaction log. Corruption may occur.
Event Source: Srv
Description: The server was unable to allocate from the system nonpaged pool because the pool was empty.
What kind of write errors to do you get exactly, how do they manifest themselves? Also what are the error codes from the BSOD?
Here's a typical one (comments are mine, attempting to decode values by googling)
Error code 10000050, PAGE_FAULT_IN_NON_PAGED_AREA
parameter1 cccccccc // Memory address referenced
parameter2 00000000 // Read Operation
parameter3 bd0baf2b // Address that referenced memory
parameter4 00000000 // Reserved
you can set Windows to create a minidump at each BSOD...
Here's a typical minidump:
IMAGE_NAME: hardware_disk
DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 0
FAULTING_MODULE: 00000000
PROCESS_NAME: csrss.exe
EXCEPTION_RECORD: f74319d8 -- (.exr 0xfffffffff74319d8)
ExceptionAddress: 75b7b399
ExceptionCode: c0000006 (In-page I/O error)
ExceptionFlags: 00000000
NumberParameters: 3
Parameter[0]: 00000000
Parameter[1]: 75b7b399
Parameter[2]: c000009a
Inpage operation failed at 75b7b399, due to I/O error c000009a
EXCEPTION_CODE: (NTSTATUS) 0xc0000006 - The instruction at "0x%08lx" referenced memory at "0x%08lx". The required data was not placed into memory because of an I/O error status of "0x%08lx".
I have to agree with mudcrab on the necessity or lack of reverse cloning. If you have two internal drive bays (like in some thinkpads) you don't need to and running ATI from windows works just fine - you just have to go through 1 or 2 reboots. I did 1 reverse cone through a slow USB 1.1 - took 15 hours - not doing that again. The next 7 were booting windows with the same original disk in the boot bay to different targets - all without incident.
It looks like some disk IO errors. Are these all with your original HDD?
Zone alarm might be referencing the original HDDs serial #, you can check this by running the VOL command and noting both HDD SNs. regular or reverse cloning will not preserve the original HDD SN. You can change the new one to match the original with a ms volume change utility available here:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897436
You might find others (roxio) that do this. Roxio is insidious - it "corrupts" the "certificate file" when it notices it is being run on a different HDD serial #!?!
I would still recommend running MEMTEST overnight.
Also, did you remove the USB 3.0 card when you uninstalled it or did you just uninstall the drivers and leave it in the slot? Windows may have reinstalled it if you didn't physically remove it. Usually, if you start having problems immediately after installing new hardware or software that's the place to start.
It looks like some disk IO errors. Are these all with your original HDD?
These errors have occurred with multiple hard drives. I initially upgraded my aging original equipment to a WD 500 GB, 5400 RPM; didn't notice any problems right away. The next week I connected a WD 500 GB, 7200 RPM via external USB 3.0 -- then when the troubles started(*) (and the external speed wasn't what I had hoped for anyway) I cloned again, swapping drives and uninstalling the ExpressCard adapter. Still later, I suspected a SATA II compatibility issue, so I cloned yet again, returning the original equipment to service. As of now I'm back on the 7200, and my 5400 is a backup drive connected via USB 2.0.
Zone alarm might be referencing the original HDDs serial # ...
Yeah, that would explain it - thanks!
I would still recommend running MEMTEST overnight.
OK, I'll do MEMTEST tonight.
did you remove the USB 3.0 card when you uninstalled it...
Yes
(*)...as I write this I get the feeling the ExpressCard adapter has corrupted my system somehow, and uninstall wasn't complete. That happens? :) I think my best course would be to:
- back up my data,
- format and do a fresh install,
- restore from my most recent pre-ExpressCard backup, and
- manually restore my work from the last couple of months.
What do you think? MEMTEST is still on for tonight though...
EDIT - By "corrupted" I'm thinking "hooked into the low-level disk access calls" in some way.
EDIT - and by "ExpressCard" I also meant the SATA USB 3.0 enclosure, and whatever PnP magic occurred when *that* was connected.
Lindsay,
You are converging to a plausible explanation through the ExpressCard installation issues, but it is still a weird case.
Let's let MEMTEST complete and reassess.
If MEMTEST doesn't show anything, if I were you, I would go through the path you propose: clean Windows install and move the content back.
MEMTEST results after 9hr 47min = zero errors
I'm going to continue as we discussed. I'll report the results in a few days. Thanks again.
Well the problem has been resolved so I guess I should update. I had two different issues going on,
which makes troubleshooting much much harder.
1)
I should have used reverse cloning. This was the source of my disk hardware related errors.
I was able to recover from this error by creating an ASR (Automated System Recovery) backup, then
reformatting my hard drive, repairing the MBR, then performing an ASR restore.
After fixing my drive this way, I successfully fixed its' twin (backup) drive by the reverse clone method.
2)
I had also done something to my USB controllers - part of the Intel 965 chipset. I am still not sure
what happened, but unless I disable five of the seven available USB controllers, I get a memory leak
of "pool nonpaged bytes": the total pool nonpaged bytes slowly and steadily increases until it hits the
32-bit limit of 256 MB, at which point random failures start to occur, shortly followed by a BSoD.
Looks like Lindsey got his machine running. I wonder if it would do any good to post a topic with the microsoft kb on the HDD volume serial number for folks who don't realize that one or more of their apps is somehow 'tied' to the original HDD volume serial #.
I know every time i recover a clone HDD install, i have to go back and change the volume serial # to match the old one or roxio will jus refuse to load. and now Zone alarm does something similar.