Advice in creating my Daily Backup task

1. Keep in mind that whatever plan you set up for any schedule, if you want your backup to start upon bootup, you will still need to implement the same "Timeout" delay option you are using for your weekly backup. Your external backup drive is powered by the computer and it needs the delay option in order for the storage disk to be recognized. Without the delay,you will return to "The system cannot find the path specified" error.

a. An alternate frequency method might be to schedule the backup to run daily just prior to shutdown (or manually at shutdown) and then the execution time has lessor importance.

2. Incremental type backups: The first backup will be a full backup. If you want the next backups to be incremental, then how many incremental backups do you want created before creating a new full backup? Keep in mind the risk factor related to having too many incremental backups in the single chain. All incremental backups in the chain must be readable or non-corrupt in order for any of the newest incremental backups to be usable. If an older incremental is non-readable, then all the newer incremental are non-usable.

a. My own personal preference is the differential type backup because it has much less risk of spoilage. To restore a differential backup, all you need is the first full plus only one of the diff backups. Whereas, when restoring an incremental backup, you need the first full plus ALL the preceding incremental up to the day which is being restored.

As to which method is preferable, it depends upon how much your data changes from one backup to the next. Either of the incremental or differential backups would be considerably faster than a full backup. The validation time would be slightly faster on the incremental backup.

3. You also must decide how many backup chains you wish to keep.
If you use only full backups, then each backups is an individual standalone chain.
Incremental/differential chain=1 full plus all the incremental/differentials created before the next full backup.)

4. This prior link from your other posting illustrates show to setup either of the backup schemes based on a backup time of your choosing. Use your own needs to set the frequency and number of chains to be retained.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/25819#comment-80161

5. You may want to set up some tasks of both types and run them for a trial period so you could see the results before you make any long range plans.

Hi Grover!

GroverH wrote:

1. Keep in mind that whatever plan you set up for any schedule, if you want your backup to start upon bootup, you will still need to implement the same "Timeout" delay option you are using for your weekly backup. Your external backup drive is powered by the computer and it needs the delay option in order for the storage disk to be recognized. Without the delay,you will return to "The system cannot find the path specified" error.

I am backing up to my internal hard drive, the 1TB Western Digital Black Caviar; Spinner (E:) I don't see how this would apply. Does it?

GroverH wrote:

An alternate frequency method might be to schedule the backup to run daily just prior to shutdown (or manually at shutdown) and then the execution time has lessor importance.

Ideally the time preference for me would be at startup. I have some time from when I come home to when I actually sit down at the PC. Backing up at startup is what I currently do and really works well.
I would like to have the SSD get backed up internally everyday except Sunday, which is the day I have my external USB backup task execute.

GroverH wrote:

2. Incremental type backups: The first backup will be a full backup. If you want the next backups to be incremental, then how many incremental backups do you want created before creating a new full backup? Keep in mind the risk factor related to having too many incremental backups in the single chain. All incremental backups in the chain must be readable or non-corrupt in order for any of the newest incremental backups to be usable. If an older incremental is non-readable, then all the newer incremental are non-usable.

a. My own personal preference is the differential type backup because it has much less risk of spoilage. To restore a differential backup, all you need is the first full plus only one of the diff backups. Whereas, when restoring an incremental backup, you need the first full plus ALL the preceding incremental up to the day which is being restored.

Differential sounds good. I want to balance performance with data integrity. Does a first full then maybe 5 (I'm thinking the first full would cover day 1, then the other 5 would cover the rest of the week up until day 7 which will be my USB backup task) sound adequate?

GroverH wrote:

As to which method is preferable, it depends upon how much your data changes from one backup to the next. Either of the incremental or differential backups would be considerably faster than a full backup. The validation time would be slightly faster on the incremental backup.

It shouldn't very much. I would guess two or three projects a month. Maybe 15 files of varying sizes from 1MB to 15MB. If the validation time difference is negligible, I would stick with differential.

1. Your are right. As you are using an internal, you should not need the delay option.
2. Using the daily backup option, there is no way to bypass a day so bypassing Sunday is not possible using the Acronis scheduler. The Sunday incremental should be less time than the normal Sunday full. Keep in mind that you can use the computer while a backup is being created.
I will give some thought as to how we might use the Windows scheduler instead.
3. It does take time to do the included validation--about the same amount of time that it takes to create a backup. My comment about negligible time difference related to difference between the types--not the actual validation.

I've had success using the weekly backup option, simply selecting Monday-Saturday. I'd like to avoid backing up on Sunday with this task if I am backing up externally on Sunday.

Do you feel my number of backups in the backup chain are adequate?

Understood regarding the execution time.

Thanks Grover!

Yes, the number of chains sounds adequate. If you choose 4 to retain 4 chains, this would be have a revolving 4 weeks of this form of backup. Let me know how you make out with your schedule after you run it for a couple weeks. Good luck and Merry Christmas.

OK, I'm a little confused on version chains and when to create my full versions. If I have "create a full version after every 4 differential versions" and "Delete version chains older than 6 days". I'm wondering if my create full version to delete version chain ratio is adequate? This would mean after I create a full initial backup (on Monday), I would have 4 differential versions off that full version for the backup task. Correct? so if my data changes everyday, I would have this data backed up everyday for 4 days and on the 5 day, a new full backup is created, and on the 6th day the earliest versions would begin to be erased. Thus, if I my scheduled task runs at 4pm everyday, and I made my first full version on Monday, I would have any data that has changed since Monday 4pm backed up on Tuesday 4pm, and any data that has changed since Tuesday 4pm would be backed up on Wednesday 4pm, and so on until Saturday at 4pm, when a new full version would be created. Is this a good plan?

Also, take into consideration I have a full disk backup for this SSD to my external USB drive scheduled every Sunday.

One of the most frequent mistakes made regarding backups is that too many users are too quick to delete their old backups. IMHO, backups should be retained until space requirements dictate their removal and having backups stored on multiple devices is an absolute necessity. The loss of one storage disk should not be a catastrophe so storing backups on alternate devices can be a real safety factor. It is not unusual for considerable time to pass before user becomes aware of an important file becoming corrupt or its contents is needed as it was on a particular date. Having an archive of backups can really assist with this type occurrence. My suggestion of number of x chains to keep is whatever your storage space will allow.

I am NOT an advocate of "Delete version chains older than x days". In theory, the idea is very practical but there has been too many reports of it not working in actual practice so I avoid the use of this option. I also avoid the use of the options based on space limitations. The option which I have found that works the best (at least for me) is to keep x number of backup chains. Acronis spent considerable time on improving these retention options in the 2012 version but I am sticking with what works for me.

Understand the difference between incremental and differential backups.

Assuming that a full backup occurs on Monday and either an incrmental or differential backup occurs on Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday-Friday-Saturday.

Each differential backup will contain all the changes that has occurred since the full backup. If you need to restore the system to the same condition as Friday, you would select the Friday differential backup. and the Monday full plus the Friday differential would be restored. Only the two files needed for restoring.

Each incremental backup will contain all the changes that has occurred since the last or previous incremental. So, to restore the system to the same condition as Friday, you would select the Friday incremental, and the Monday full plus each file from Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday would be restored If for any reason any of those single incremental files are not readable, any incremental backup newer than that date (within the same chain) is useless. Thus, it is wise to avoid creating a lot of incremental backups within a single chain. As to how many is "too many" can be debated. If you use the incremental procedures, just be aware of the risk and schedule a new chain with the risk factor in mind.

What you are doing is not "etched in stone" but can be restarted with a new task should you change your mind. It is hard for me as an outsider to know what will work best for you. Some things will entail you just trying in order to find the procedures you want to use.

Get started. Good luck and Merry Christmas.

Grover

I agree in regards to having multiple locations for backups. This will be my everyday backup. It will be stored on another internal drive. My OS is on my SSD, My backups for the daily task will be stored on my 1TB Western Digital. My Sunday task stores its full disk backup onto a 1TB external USB drive, plus I will be burning 24GB backups onto blu-ray, as the 24GB SSD partition gets near capacity. The files for that partition will then be archived onto the 1TB internal drive. Essentially, all my original artwork will be burned onto blu-ray after awhile.

I should have enough space to be able to roll back to any day of the week. So I'm thinking I will "keep 5 number of backup chains". I'm trying to get a good base for any experimentation. Please take a look at the attachment and tell me if this is configured correctly

Thanks Grover and Merry Christmas to you as well :)

I have not used what you have pictured. The link below is what I suggested as to the custom backup scheme.

You can change the 6 to 5 for number of differentials and you can change the number of chains from 4 to whatever fits your needs. Follow the numbered steps to achieve the same screen display.

Excellent..thanks Grover, I'll give it a try

One problem with scheduling. I need to have this task run Mon-Sat at 4pm. If my PC is off at 4pm, I want the task to run as soon as the PC powers up. The backup is to my internal spinner, so a time-out script should not be needed.

I noticed that because the backup was missed yesterday, it ran today as did today's 4pm task. I'd like the scheduling to behave like this:

Run the task everyday, Mon-Sat (not Sunday) at 4pm. If the task for that day is missed (If the clock ticks past 12am) the task for that day will not run, but the task for the next day will continue on schedule.

I started my PC today, and the task from yesterday started right away. Then the backup from today started at 4. Can this be fixed?

I am not understanding.

You have two tasks. One task runs weekly on Sunday. If Sunday is missed, it will run on Monday providing you have the task set to "If missed, run at startup".

Task 2 is daily but set to run Mon-Sat but not on Sunday. Did Saturday missed? Did it run on Sunday? If you daily backup has too few backups, you may have to run it twice (one on schedule and one manually) in order to play catch up to maintain your Monday as the full backup day+ 5 diff backups.

What am I missing?

I apologize for being unclear. I will elaborate.

I have been away and didn't turn on my PC Saturday or Sunday. Both days have backup tasks scheduled. The Saturday task is a daily task which runs at 4pm everyday but Sunday. My Sunday task backs up the entire SSD to my external USB drive.

I turned the PC on yesterday at 2:35 PM. Immediately an error popped up reminding me that the Sunday task had failed (normal. I forgot to plug in External Drive). I didn't run the missed backup right away. I wanted to see how the program handled the error so I was looking in the logs. At 2:40 PM the Daily SSD Backup task ran which was the task scheduled for Saturday. At 4 PM, Monday's Daily Backup Task ran. I then manually ran the Sunday backup task at 4:14 PM.

I am using Acronis 2009 on my old computer and the backup tasks behave like this:

1. If the computer is turned off when the task is scheduled to run, run the task the next time the PC is turned on.

2. If the task is missed more than 24 hours, go to the most recent scheduled task.

So, what I was hoping to see, was that Saturday's SSD Daily Backup task would be cancelled (why would it need to backup data when the machine wasn't even turned on?)

Thanks for any help!

I think you results is what would be expected except I was surprised that you had to start the Sunday backup manually.

Whatever you got is what will be and no changes will ever be made to 2009 for it would be highly unusual if they ever did. Any improvements are only being made to the 2012 version.

So the 2009 version could do what I want, newer version, 2011 can't? I guess I could roll the dice and hope for an improvement to 2012 that would let me do what I did in 2009, but judging by this company, I highly doubt something so logical would be so forthcoming.

I'm wondering if the difference is the difference between tasks (new machine uses differential task). I use incremental on the machine running 2009, works great. if I have the computer off for 3 days, it wont try and backup the computer 3 times when I turn it on. It has same weekly schedule, Mon-Sat and it works great.

The only way you can get a definitive answer would be to test your theory.

If you browse to the "schedul2.exe" file which is the scheduler, most likely you will find that the 2010 version is a more recent version than the 2009 version. My own personal "guess" is that changing the tasks from differential to incremental would make no difference in what happens when a backup is missed due to the computer being powered down several days--but that is a guess--not factual knowledge.

Is that normal behavior for that type of task? Say I go away for vacation for 2 weeks. Will my PC then proceed to make 14 differential backups in a row?

There has to be a better way to obtain the backup schedule I want than that.

Isn't there a way to make a weekly task (running Monday thru Saturday) run on startup, but have it run once a day, like the "Upon Event" scheduling?

The batch files I posted do everything you need, including providing fine-grained control of any number of backup generations (1 full image plus n incremental or differential). Use ATI only for disk imaging, and do anything else with a Windows utility.

See http://forum.acronis.com/forum/27989 .

I appreciate your suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have the time to learn a scripting language. I was hoping to have a simple solution provided within the software I purchased. ATI 2009 works, 2011 doesn't..go figure. I've been working on these issues since October. The software is clumsy. Plain and simple. I guess I'll have to try and figure something out.