alignment on a SSD
Here is how you can verify what alignment your partitions were set at INSIDE your ATI backup image files: (The screenshot here is from ATI Home 2010. It should be same for 2011. It is also applicable to earlier versions - same process works in all of them.
Run ATI and choose to either Mount an image file or Disk Recovery> Recover whole disks or partitions from image file, (actually quicker to use the Mount image option and maybe less 'scary' to a newcomer, but my screenshot and example here is using Recovery:)
Go through stages, selecting to Recover whole disks or partitions, then you arrive at stage indicated by my screenshot. Should be self-explanatory, but you want to expand the window to see enough, right-click any area of the column headers to choose additional columns, the one to choose is "Start" - which shows the starting sector of the partitions. This is mostly helpful if your backup was of entired drive, since the first partition is the most important. If it is 2048, then it has correct alignment for Windows 7 / proper alignment for SSD. Also, Paragon Alignment tool, if used, will often align at 4096, which is fine as well. )
You can also use the read-only Disk Editor included with TI 2010 to view the partition table.
MudCrab, as I understand it, the read-only Disk Editor in 2010 provides detailed info on existing drives and their partitions, no way to use it on an Acronis TI image file (.tib) to check a partition sector start point as it was saved within the image.
It should be noted that getting to Disk Editor is awkward: Only accessible via the Tools and Utilities section, after starting the Acronis DriveCleanser tool, and even MORE awkwardly because to get to the Disk Editor, you have to click the blue hypertext itself, "View the current state of your hard drives" just below the tool link! Why didn't they just made Disk Editor one of the actual tools listed?
I'm glad you mentioned the disk editor, I thought they abandoned it in ATI 2010, but honestly it provides a very complex view of the partition information, and even with many years of drive imaging, I find it hard to understand what it's showing me.
Right. I missed that. You can't use it to check an image. I just meant to verify the existing partitions or the restored partitions.
It's actually much easier to use in TI 2011 because it just takes two clicks: Tools & Utilities and then View current state of your disks (of course, that's the Windows version -- the CD version is still like TI 2010). In the partition table, Relative sectors is usually all you need for a quick verify.
By the way, I will try this (and restore only if needed)
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardware-components-aftermarket-upgrade…
Another excellent source of info:
http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/157
--- edit ---
Happy to report it DID work and my boot partition is now aligned. After all is complete in GPARTED you may have to run the Win7 repair operation, but it goes quite smooth. One thing: do everything in the live distro and do not reboot before you have deleted the extra tiny partition in the beginning of the disk
Thanks for the update Howard. I have used and recommended Acronis since its original versions (all registered). Looks like I will be joining you in becoming a Paragon customer.
Paragon doesn't officially support SSD's either.
I just came across this link (http://kb.acronis.com/content/2699) updated on Sept 2nd 2010, that says:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------The following Acronis products have full Solid State Drive (SSD) support:
* Acronis True Image Home 2011
* Acronis Disk Director 11 HomeAll other Acronis products support Solid State Drives (SSD) with certain limitations:
* You can perform all the same operations with SSDs as with regular hard disk drives;
* There are no special partition alignment mechanisms required to keep the partitions offset which is optimal for SSD drives. In other words when you restore an image to an SSD drive, it will get the default 63 sectors offset instead of 64kb (or a multiple of 64kb) offset recommended for SSD drives even if this offset was in place when the image had been created. This may result in a drop of performance on certain models of SSD drives after the restore;
* The proper support for SSD drives which takes into account the specifics of the partitions offset is planned for the next version of the Acronis Backup & Recovery product line.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this mean that SSDs can now be correctly aligned with ATI Home 2011?
I just came across this link (http://kb.acronis.com/content/2699) updated on Sept 2nd 2010, that says:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------The following Acronis products have full Solid State Drive (SSD) support:
* Acronis True Image Home 2011
* Acronis Disk Director 11 HomeAll other Acronis products support Solid State Drives (SSD) with certain limitations:
* You can perform all the same operations with SSDs as with regular hard disk drives;
* There are no special partition alignment mechanisms required to keep the partitions offset which is optimal for SSD drives. In other words when you restore an image to an SSD drive, it will get the default 63 sectors offset instead of 64kb (or a multiple of 64kb) offset recommended for SSD drives even if this offset was in place when the image had been created. This may result in a drop of performance on certain models of SSD drives after the restore;
* The proper support for SSD drives which takes into account the specifics of the partitions offset is planned for the next version of the Acronis Backup & Recovery product line.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does this mean that SSDs can now be correctly aligned with ATI Home 2011?
That's fascinating to see, encouraging.
As for "can now be correctly aligned with ATI Home 2011?"...do you mean can it set up a new harddrive with the proper ssd alignment? The article implies pretty clearly it will respect ssd's preferred alignment if it's already been aligned as such, but actually aligning the drive in the 'add new disk' feature is another story. I would be curious if there is a way for acronis to differentiate an ssd vs standard disk drive during setup, automatically or manually, because "full Solid State Drive (SSD) support" would/should mean that it does imo.
UPDATE:
I just installed TI 2011 on one of my WinXP machines to trial it (installer with a modification date of 9/9/10).
I backed up my correctly aligned system partition....then immediately did a restoration to test it.
Results: TI 2011 screwed up the alignment!
Using TI's 'view current state of your disks', this is what my partition table looked like before restoring:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11050240@N05/5000087911/
And this is what it looked like afterwards:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11050240@N05/5000087847/
UPDATE #2
Success!
ATI 2011 borked the alignment when initiating a restoration from the desktop, but after I re-aligned and reformated the drive, and then and initiating the system partition restoration from the Startup Recovery Manager (F11 on boot), TI protected the alignment and restored the partition properly.
I wasted a lot of time on this, but am very thankful it works atleast with this method.
Acronis used to be the dominant disk imaging system with only Norton Ghost offering any competition. In the present world there are an increasing number of competent competitors while Acronis seems to be stuck on an annual upgrade (for a price) pattern, offering minor cosmetic changes in relatively buggy new versions. As an avid supporter and purchaser from more than 8 versions ago, I am sorry to see their decline.
Chasewick,
I wonder if TI didn't think the partition was properly aligned because it wasn't at 1MB (2,048).
From casaul reading of this thread for interest only over its life I was under the impression that TI2010 would put an image onto a properly aligned partition (ie, formatted with W7) regardless of where it came from as long as you didn't resize it. Now it seems that this isn't the case and TI2011 is essential.
Can somebody clear this up for me? I have a friend with T2010 and a SSD and he did a restore of an old image to the aligned drive and he seems to think that it is aligned. He has lots of computer smarts but I wouldn't say partitioning is his strong point so I'm not certain if he is correct.
Seekforever,
On your friends computer, you can simulate the start of a backup and determine the starting sector of the existing installatiion. You may have to sort/display the columns icon before this info is displayed.
For Vista or Win 7, the starting offset will be either 2048 or 4096. I have no idea about the correct starting sector for a XP system on an SSD drive. I have found that I can create the 4096 offset during a restore by placing a 2 megabyte free space before the first partition and I used resize. At least in my testing, this seemed to work both in 2010 and 2011 Restore CD.
Hello all,
I would like to explain the results shared by Chasewick.
Actually, MudCrab is correct. If you restore the image to the existing partition, the program checks the alignment of this partition.
If the starting offset of the target partition is 2048, the program restores the image with starting offset 2048. All other offsets makes the program to restore the image with 63 starting offset.
Thank you.
listen, yesterday i SUCCESSFULLY (almost...) cloned a new win7 boot HDD to a PQI 128G SSD using Acronis 2010. I say "almost" because, apparently, win7 installs actually create 3 partitions on your drive during an install...a 19GB "RECOVERY" partition (this actually seems to be on ALL drives, not just the system/boot drive...i have a 500MB HDD and 1TB HDD (both used to be bootable system drives but are now just data holders) and BOTH have a "RECOVERY" partition that is being reported as "healthy" and "active").
my NEW bootable SSD (created from the close process) has THREE partitions, just like the disk it cloned..the minor problem is that even tho the system is booting from my SSD, the "SYSTEM RESERVED" partition that is 100MB on the HDD is only 31MB on the SSD, and once in a while win7 complains that im "running out of space" on that partition!
ive tried everything i could to increase the size of the SSD "SYSTEM RESERVED" partition, but nothing has worked...Disk Manager, EASEUS Disk manager, and even the all powerful GParted (the live CD refused to run on my i7 x64 box)...so far no luck.
i guess this is what you all are talking about with the "alignment" issue, correct?? well, all i know is that my system is booting FAST AS HELL and that everything is working for now...
if anyone needs any help with this issue, feel free to reply to the message and ill try to help ya...
peace,
- mark
Hello, Im currently looking for a way to migrate a system with conventional hard drive to a new ssd. I have Home 2010 version and am looking for a failsafe recipe to get my Win7 system moved over to the new drive if possible with this version.
Im a little new to formatting/alignment considerations and have following questions I would greatly appreciate feedback.
a) From what I understand I might be best to use Win7 to first format the new ssd (pretend to do install and cancel). This should create two partitions a 100mb boot and main partition. Next create an image of my hard drive full disk restore. Next restore partition by partition to the ssd and restore MBR. Possibly also need to repair install in win7 if there are problems booting.
b) Assuming I can get A to work is there an easy way to check partitions to make sure they are properly aligned? I saw earlier post suggesting win7 builtin util diskpart" (-> list disk -> select disk -> list partition). Since there are two partitions 100MB boot and main os partition do they both need to start on a multiple of 1024, 2048, ?? I had tried a previous straight clone to the new SSD and when I checked it the 100MB partition started at 1024, but the second partition had a start that was not a multiple of 1024.
c) Once I get an SSD friendly SSD, can it be backedup/restored to the same ssd without worry about the offsets? If not what special steps repeating a?
d) What is the best way to clone to another new SSD of the same size.
e) What is the best way to clone to another SSD of slightly different size e.g. 60GB->64GB, 64GB->60GB?
Any feedback/summary to help with my tasks appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Paul.
Hi,
a) I suggest you partition and format the new SSD drive before you copy the image of the OS over to the SSD drive. When you partition and format a new SSD drive with Windows 7, it will recognize the drive and set the alignment correctly. Or you can do this like you described by running the Win7 OS installation and creating the partitions there.
b) Easiest way to check alignment is through msinfo32 program. Windows button + R > msinfo32 > components > storage > disks . Check for your SSD drive manufacturer in "model" and look for the first partition's "partition offset". It should be a number dividable with 4096 . When you format the new SSD drive in Windows 7 it should should be 1 048 576 bytes.
Also Techpowerup site has a good calculator for this, check it at http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/157
c) I have backed up and restored my OS partition with TI 2010 multiple times and the alignment stays. As long as you do not delete the whole partition and just use existing partitions with TI 2010 you should be ok. This is as far my experience.
d,e) In my mind, currently the easiest way with SSD drives is to create the partitions and format the SSD drive first in Windows 7 and then restoring TI made image on it. This way the alignment should be correct.
Let me give a real life example of a clone I plan to do, and I'd appreciate any advice. First let me say that I have a purchased copy of TI Home 2011. I have a laptop with Windows 7 installed on a 160GB SATA hard drive, 115GB of which is free space. I plan to clone that to a 120GB SSD. Today the 160GB SATA HD is partitioned into a single partition. Acronis Disk editor shows a 100MB partition (system reserved) at the start of the disk at sector 2048. Then a 149GB main partition starting at sector 206848. I am assuming that this is the correct alignment for an SSD? So, I believe my first step is to make a full backup disk image with TI Home 2011. Then I will format the new SSD (USB attached) with Windows 7. Then I will install the SSD into the laptop and attach the source disk with the TI disk image via USB. Then I will boot a TI Home 2011 CD and restore the image to the SSD. Since the source SATA hard drive/partition is larger than the target SSD, will I run into alignment problems still? What can I do to prepare for correct alignment and a bootable Windows 7 install at the end of the day?
Harry C - your scenario should work in terms of alignment. (But there is a sizing issue that might crop up, so read on.) Windows 7 already has correct alignment needed for SSD use. (The first partition, though hidden, is correctly aligned at 2048, and thus the Windows 7 partition following that is also aligned at proper sectors.) ATI Home 2011 will retain the alignment when you restore to the new SSD. HOWEVER - (and I don't have ATI Home 2011) - you might run into problems if you let ATI restore using "disk restore," since previous versions have proportionately resized ALL the partitions to the new drive capacity. I have not found a post yet that confirms whether ATI Home 2011 can recognize a Windows 7 installation and maintain the 100MB reserved partition at the 100MB size, while reducing (or expanding, depending on target disk,) the actual Windows 7 partition. (A side issue is whether you need/want the 100MB partition, as that is only used for bitlocker feature, which is only available on Windows 7 Ultimate.)
The approach previously used to successfully restore a backup image in this scenario is the manual partition restore: 1) select your hidden 100MB partition and choose to restore it as-is, the same exact size, 2) don't click to perform the operation yet, 3)continue by next selecting the Win7 partition, and that one you will manually resize to fit in the remaining SSD drive unpartitioned space, 4) finalize/perform the (two) partition restores you have just configured.
It would be helpful if you post back with your experience, which method you used to clone to the SSD, and your results (including the final sizes of the resulting clone.)
I found the SSD alignment guide here worked for me:
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?54509-CLONE-amp-…
Based on the tips in this thread, I successfully moved a complete Windows 7 image from a conventional hard drive (WD Scorpio Black 160GB) to a new SSD (Intel X25-M 120GB) while keeping proper partition/sector alignment (and size) and trim support enabled. I had always recommended a fresh W7 install while doing this migration, but found it isn't necessary. I used the latest version of Acronis True Image Home 2011, and here are the steps;
1.) Defrag your current Windows 7 installation.
2.) Check BIOS to make sure that AHCI is enabled.
3.) Install Acronis TI 2011
4.) Create a bootable Acronic CD using 'rescue media builder' under 'utilities'
5.) While running Acronis in Windows, check for proper alignment using 'View current state of your discs' under utilities. You should have a 100MB 'system reserved' partition that starts on sector 2048, and (1) normal NTFS partition or more. If you do not, then your drive is not properly aligned for an SSD. There are utilities that will align it, but that's for another topic.
6.) Attach a USB backup drive
7.) While running Acronis in Windows, select 'go to main screen' and then select 'disk and partition backup'
8.) Check both the system reserved and C: partitions for backup (also D or E if you have them, etc)
9.) Create a backup name and select a destination (Your USB Drive)
10.) Select 'backup now'
11.) After the backup completes shut down the laptop and install the SSD
12.) Boot up the laptop with the Acronis CD
13.) Select full version Acronis
14.) Follow the prompts to restore the system reserved, MBR, and C: partitions onto the SSD (also D and E if you have them, etc)
15.) Power down the laptop and remove the USB drive.
16.) Boot up into Windows on the new SSD
17.) Install and run SSDTweaker and select the 'auto tweak settings'
http://elpamsoft.com/Downloads/SSDTweaker.zip
18.) Rerun Acronis as in step 5 and make sure the system reserved partition is still aligned to sector 2048.
19.) Go into the defrag utility in Windows and disable scheduled defrags
20.) Done. You now have a perfectly aligned and tweaked SSD running Windows 7.
Harry,
Very nice instructions.
In your step 14, it appears that you restored everything (also known as a disk restore). If true, then TI proportionally resized all your partitions smaller. I am curious as to what changes in partition sizes did it make on each of your partitions--especially the smaller partitions. Windows Disk Management can show the new sizes and your last old backup can show the prior sizes.
I am curious as to what changes in partition sizes did it make on each of your partitions--especially the smaller partitions.
I only had (2) partitions plus the MBR on the 160GB source drive. There was the 100MB partition and roughly a 148GB partition. When I did the restore to the 120GB SSD, the 100MB partition remained intact and the same size. The larger partition was shrunk by Acronis to 111GB. All of my data was preserved, so Acronis did all of this work for me. I was using roughly 30GB of space on the source drive at the time of the backup/restore.
Thank you Harry for taking the extra time to satisfy my curiousity. I was expecting the 100mb to be resized slightly smaller but your response is encouraging.
I followed what I thought were the steps to get an SSD aligned in Acronis 2010. Reformatted the disk in Windows 7 and ran the Acronis 2010 clone utility. When I checked my starting offset its 32256 which is not divisible by 4096. How can I get my disk to aligned, can I format the disk offline and restore my image without it reverting back? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
James,
You should be able to get a starting sector of 2048 either via cloning or restoring but it will require manual sizing of each partition.
Not knowing exactly how your partitions are positioned, it is hard for me to give specific instructions. It would help if you posted a screen capture of your Windows Disk management graphical view of your old disk. Your disk partitioning may be similar to one of these included in this attachment.
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2011/01/18335/manufa…
When performing a Manual mode cloning with manual sizing; or partiton restore with partition resizing, both types include options to show the starting sector both before you begin resizing and after completed. An example is shown in post #2 above. Click on my signature index below and look at items 3-BB & 3-CC to give you ideas on how you can do the resize either via clone or using the restore partitions method.
During the resizing of partition 1, you can make the partition the correct size with no free space before. Then re-edit the partition again and type "1" into the "free spce before" window and be sure the size increment is "MB" . In other words type "1" into the MB window.
After I see your screen capture or know which illustation our view matches, maybe I can offer something more specific.
What are the partition sizes you are attempting to create?
I ended up going with the Paragon Alignment Tool. I found out that 6 of my 8 disks in use were out of whack. That suprised me as they were partioned and formatted using Win7 Clean load. I have done multiple image restores of Win7 that were backed up but surely Acronis wouldn't change those to 512byte sectors would it? That's the only way I can see it got out of whack as all my systems were clean installs backed up by Acronis. As I upgrade and tinker occasionally I restore. In my case the original cloned drive should have been aligned by Win7 from the get go. I think some phone support should have been included so I bought PAT rather than re-invent the wheel on all 3 systems I built.