Should be able to delete a single full backup image without deleting the task.

If that procedure is important to you, have you considered using Windows Explorer to delete or move the backup so when Acronis goes to do the backup, it not find any and will automatically create a new full. This is the procedure by which the Chain2Gen helper program functions.

Hi Grover H- you are definitely familiar from some other forum... I remember you giving good advice but i can't remember what it was about!- I don't spend much time in online forums so its a coincidence we should meet again. Hello. (was it perhaps the HP forum for disgruntled users with burned out DV9000 video chips??)... Anyhow, thanks for your comment here- yes, you can use Explorer to delete the backup files but the TIH2012 user manual warns you never to do this because it causes the TIH metafile (which tracks what backups are available) to lose touch with the reality of what's on the system. This software has a fairly tentative grip on reality as it is, so I don't want to push it over the edge into complete insanity!

cheers,

Mark

Hi Mark,
I can only repeat the same advice. I understand what the manual writes and I cannot disagree. However, you are making the change at the beginning of each cycle. If you have backups and you do not like the result, you can either restore the old settings or simply start a new task. I do not believe this will cause you grief otherwise, I would not have suggested it.

You know the risks and know how to get back to normal should this be an issue. It is your decision to make. I do not know of any other method of getting the system to do what you want to do except use C2G which uses exactly the same procedure as you are thinking about doing.

Hi again GroverH- thanks for that- I take it from what you say that deletion of images in Explorer only becomes a metafile problem with incremental or differential backup chains.

Chain2Gen sounds OK but my needs are simple and I don't need to use the scheduler so doing it manually wouldn't be a problem. I suppose the real impact of not allowing deletion from TIH is on storage space- means I can only keep 4 system backups on my 2 backup drives, not 6 as previously.

As a suggestion for future updates of the user guide, it would be useful to have the limitation on backup deletion made clear at some point- would have saved wasted time on a call to online chat support and further wasted time looking at how to do it following the advice received that I just needed to set up my backup based on a different scheme! Just a suggestion...

Scott Hieber has recited the logic behind the "no deletion behaviour" in thread 27184 (http://forum.acronis.com/forum/27184#comment-89105)
and I can see it sort of makes sense as the default behaviour. But personally I still think I should be able to over-ride it.

Looking at your entry I realize it was in fact "Grover's Index of Accumulated Wisdom" that I have used before- no doubt while upgrading my system a couple of years back. I remember it was very helpful. So thanks to you directly now for that help. Of course it means there is absolutely no coincidence that we meet again since I assume you are with Acronis!

I should note to the world that since my other comments in the 27184 thread yesterday I have at last been able to contact some tech support by phoning in via your Washington office and a Vikas Mann is having a look at the issues I noted. He says he will call me back on Monday. Nonetheless if you have anything to add regarding the other threads I set up yesterday (28711, 28709, 28712) relating to the other issues I am experiencing, that would be welcome.

Cheers, and many thanks.

Oh yes- and I was forgetting thread 28710 with its warnings about Windows libraries and configuration files...

since I assume you are with Acronis!

You could not be more wrong. I am not associated with Acronis in any way. I am just another user of Acronis as are you. My postings here is just a desire to help others learn how to use to use backup software to protect their data. When I first started using TrueImage, I found it lacking in information as to how to use the software. Thinking that others must have found the same lack of information, I created some help guides so others might find the software easier to use--thus protecting their data. You only have to lose your data once to realize how important it is to know how to use the software and maintain the proper backups.. Your suggestions about changes to the user guide should be directed to Acronis.

As I have stated before, I suggested that you use Windows Explorer and move the full backup to another folder--away from Acronis. I don't encourage deletion of backups as you never know when they might fill a need. Moving the backups from the storage folder so the storage folder still remains but is empty will cause the creation of a new full on the next backup schedule. I don't see any risk as nothing is being deleted and if TrueImage does not create a new backup as expected, you can simply create a new task pointing to a new folder and create a new backup.

Well GroverH- now I know that I am even more impressed. Stronger thanks are due to you for your willingness to help the rest of us out here.

Acronis SHOULD be employing you because you seem to be filling in a major gap in their customer relations. It should be obvious to them that this sort of assistance is needed by their users to help them with the awkward corners and unfiished edges of their software offerings. Might help if they just avoided "Acronis TrueImage '13- Unlucky for some" and spent the year checking they had software that was fully ready for release out into the world.

Agree with all your comments about backups, safety of data, etc. As regards the deletion vs. moving to a backup folder- quite right, I do agree that is the bast policy. I keep my backups on removable hard drives, separate from the machine- in memory of a friend who had a power surge that fried everything.

Anyhow, all the best,

Mark Hanson

Acronis has decided, as of a couple of versions ago, to treat tasks and backup files as all part on one entity, a sort of thing Acronis has called a data set. So if you had only one backup file under a task and deleted it, ati would assume there was no more data set. On the other hand you can have a task set up and before you do the first backup, it exists without a backup file.

You probably could move a tib to another location and ati would recognize it (show it on the dataset list) but not know what data set it belongs to (what the task rules are) and wouldn't list any task settings for iit -- yet it might still list the dataset (the task settings) for the original task which it now thinks has no tib. Still with me? I think that's how it's supposed to work -- but we're not sure; we haven't quite figured it out yet; it's only been 3 years.

Thanks for your note, Scott. My glimpse into the wild weird and wonderful world of Acronis software since installing TIH 2012 has certainly been an education... I am sure you will be able to guess the main lesson I have learned.

Your note on Acronis' decision to use the data set approach to making backups certainly sets one a-pondering all sorts of things.

All the best with your delving into the logical consequences of that approach (Your three year mission- to boldly go where none of Acronis' programmers has gone before...). Its good to have a hobby!

Cheers and best wishes,

Mark H

Gents,

I was reading your comments with interest. I was trying to re-initialize a task (start from scratch with no associated TIB files at all) - to take it back to its initial state of "not backed up yet" but it doesn't seem possible to do that cleanly. I understand the danger in allowing users to accidently do this from the console explorer but there should be an over-ride setting somewhere with a disclaimer.

I ultimately deleted the actual file using windows explorer (as suggested by Grover) but the task still showed as having backups - and when I used the "explore and recover" option in the console it went off into never never land until I had to end-task it. Ultimately I just deleted the task and started again.

I stick with Acronis because I believe the underlying block-level technology is good - but I have to admit there are more holes in this 2012 desktop edition that a truck full of swiss cheese. There is a tenuous link between the jobs and the actual backups - over a period of time, they can get themselves into a tangle whereby the TIB files don't really jive with what the Acronis explorer is telling you - pretty scary.

At the end of the day if the product isn't logical and there are too many glitches then I am very worried for its future. Once customers dealing with backup software start losing their confidence the writing is on the wall.

This basiclly is the chronic problem with the versions of ati that use a database to track backups and tasks and, in the most recent versions, to not firmly distinguish between the two -- treating both as a so-called data set, which is unintuitive, rather than as taks and backup files, which everybody seems to understand. But regardelss of the unintuitiveness of the model, the bigger problem is that tasks and backups become logically seperated in the database, especially over time, if one edits task paramenters. In which cases, the only reliable thing to do is delete the task and start over, after having first moved the backup files to another location, form which point you treat them as orphans with associated tasks (they are still recoverable).

Mark Bonner wrote:

. . . I ultimately deleted the actual file using windows explorer (as suggested by Grover) but the task still showed as having backups - and when I used the "explore and recover" option in the console it went off into never never land until I had to end-task it. Ultimately I just deleted the task and started again.

I stick with Acronis because I believe the underlying block-level technology is good - but I have to admit there are more holes in this 2012 desktop edition that a truck full of swiss cheese. There is a tenuous link between the jobs and the actual backups - over a period of time, they can get themselves into a tangle whereby the TIB files don't really jive with what the Acronis explorer is telling you - pretty scary.
. . .