True Image Simple and Recovery Environment Rescue Discs and the Effect of Non-Default Windows 10 Drive Partitions
UPDATE 1/24/2020: The issue that was causing my computer to not boot after recovering a True Image 2019 full disk & partition backup turned out to be a startup driver issue (I believe). It had nothing to do with the order of partitions on the hard disk or the use of either the Simple, Recovery Environment, or WinPE ADK rescue discs. However, my original post, below, and all of the help offered by members of this forum, may still be of value if you need to understand Windows 10 partitioning and its relationship to True Image 2019. Please see Post #15, below, for the solution to the boot problem I reported in my original post.
I would like to ask the advanced users of True Image 2018 and 2019 confirm whether or not I completely understand the function of True Image 2018 and 2019 Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs used to recovery drives and partitions in Windows 10. My understanding was acquired as a result of reading posts in the Acronis True Image forum as well as Google searches and experiments I have conducted myself.
First, my understanding of the three types of rescue discs that True Image 2018 & 2019 allow to be created:
- Simple rescue disc
- Recovery Environment rescue disc
- Windows 10 WinPE ADK rescue disc
Both the Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs are created using the Windows 10 Recovery Environment that is installed on the computer on which the rescue discs are created. The only difference between these two rescue discs is that the Recovery Environment rescue disc can have drivers added ("injected" is the term often used) to the rescue disc during the disc creation process and the Simple rescue disc can't. Other that this difference, both of these rescue discs are created identically from the Recovery Environment installed on the computer where the rescue discs are created.
The Windows 10 WinPE ADK rescue disc is created using the files that are a part of the Windows 10 ADK ("Assessment and Deployment Kit") application that must be installed before a Windows 10 WinPE ADK rescue disc can be created. It doesn't use the files present in the Windows 10 Recovery Environment that are installed on the computer that creates the Windows 10 WinPE ADK rescue disc.
The Simple and Recovery Environment rescue disks can only be successfully used (meaning that the computer will boot normally after one of these rescue discs is used to recover an Acronis disk and partition backup) for Windows 10 installations when the layout of disk drive partitions is determined solely by Windows 10 during installation (what I refer to as a "Windows 10 default installation"). The partition layout of a Windows 10 default installation as of 1/17/2020 was determined through experimentation to be:
- Partition #1 ... Recovery (Recovery Environment) - 450 MB
- Partition #2 ... System (EFI) - 100 MB
- Partition #3 ... Reserved (MSR) - 16 MB
- Partition #4 ... Primary (Windows 10 O/S) - Rest of disk space
This is the order of the partitions installed on a blank (no partitions present) GPT disk drive (it doesn't matter whether it's a spinning hard disk or an SSD; the partitions and their order is identical) using the diskpart utility.
Because I build a few computer systems each year for myself and my friends, I wanted to understand the licensing for the Windows 10 OEM product that is widely available for purchase. During that process I ran across a Microsoft document that described the preferred partition layout for UEFI/GPT-based hard drive partitions for Windows 10 installations. This partition layout is ordered as follows and is not created by the default Windows 10 installation (even when using the OEM product):
- Partition #1 ... System (EFI) - 100 MB
- Partition #2 ... Reserved (MSR) - 16 MB
- Partition #3 ... Primary (Windows 10 O/S) - Sized determined by installer
- Partition #4 ... Recovery (Recovery Environment) - 450 MB
There are some really good reasons here for system builders (like me) and OEMs to used the Microsoft recommended UEFI/GPT-based partition layout since it preserve options for future Windows 10 configuration that the default Windows 10 installation does not. When I used True Image prior to Windows 10 (Windows XP and Windows 7) I could create a Simple rescue disc (Recovery Environment rescue discs didn't exist) and a restored True Image disk and partition backup would always boot normally. When I built my first Windows 10 computer I assumed the same thing applied to Windows 10. It doesn't. Because of the nature of Windows 10, a Simple or Recovery Environment rescue disc won't boot successfully if the default Windows 10 installation partition layout has been altered. Said another way, the True Image 2018 & 2019 Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs will only work successfully with a default Windows 10 installation. THEY WILL NOT WORK IF THE PARTITION LAYOUT IS NOT THE DEFAULT WINDOWS 10 INSTALLATION PARTITION LAYOUT.
NOTE - I was able to get both a Simple and Recovery Environment rescue disc recovery for a non-default Windows 10 partition layout to boot correctly by running Startup Repair in the Recovery Environment after the computer failed to boot. However, I don't recommend doing this because I have no idea what Windows 10 did to make the unbootable recovered non-default Windows 10 partition layout bootable. The expected behavior after the recovery of a True Image disk and partition backup is that the computer boots successfully when it is started.
For non-Windows 10 default installation partition layouts, the Windows 10 WinPE ADK must be used to create rescue discs. This enables custom partition layouts to be recovered successfully by True Image, unlike the Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs that can't successfully recover non-Windows 10 default installation partition layouts. A side note about the Reserved (MSR) partition. It appears that True Image 2018 & 2019 does't backup the Reserved partition in a disk and partition backup (see here in the Acronis True Image forum). This means that the Reserved partition is not able to be restored even in a Windows 10 default installation. I have confirmed that this is the case through experimentation. I don't know what impact this may have on Windows 10 default installations in the future as additional partitions may be required by a Microsoft Windows 10 feature update.
I now believe that the ONLY way I can use a True Image 2018 or 2019 rescue disc to recover non-Windows 10 default installation partition layouts is to create a Windows 10 WinPE ADK rescue disk. Is this correct?
Sorry Steve for the initial post that wasn't complete. I had to do that so that I could get access to the post editor, which isn't available when a new topic is first created.
Bill, there have been some very detailed discussions in the forums on the subject of what is / is not the correct partition order / layout for Windows with no real definitive conclusion IIRC.
On my own Win 10 64-bit UEFI laptop with an NVMe M.2 SSD I have no MSR partition present and would not expect to see one as this is used for Legacy boot OS systems, not UEFI.
My own partition order is EFI, OS then Recovery.
The method used to create the rescue media should not affect the ability of that media to restore a backup that will boot correctly without the need to go into Startup Repair.
You do have some misconceptions here. There is no difference in how True Image restores are done between recovery disks created as WinRE (Simple or Advanced) and WinPE from the ADK. The same True Image program is run to do the restore in the same manner.
The subject of partition layout on a restored disk is a different matter. It very much depends on the target disk being used. You are correct that True Image doesn't backup the MSR partition. The following pertains to full disk backups and restores. If you restore to the original disk with the partitions still intact, the original partition layout will be maintained. If you restore to the original disk after all partitions have been deleted, the original partition layout will be maintained. If you restore to a new disk that is exactly the same size as the original disk, the partition layout will be maintained. If you restore to a new disk that is a different size, the partition layout will be changed. True Image will place a MSR partition of 128 MB at the beginning of the disk. This is true whether the original MSR partition was 16 MB or 128 MB. The remaining partitions will be restored in the same order as they appeared on the original disk. In most cases the restored disk will be bootable. I'm really not sure if it is True Image or the UEFI firmware of the computer that makes the adjustment to the system BCD to maintain bootability. In some cases the restored disk won't boot and a BCD change is needed for the system to find the boot partition. This can be done manually from the WinPE recovery disk or by a Startup Repair.
I have never been a fan of how Acronis handles the MSR partition and have made my opinions know. However, all Acronis products follow the same method of handling the MSR partition.
Steve - That's not what's happening to me. The order of the partitions IS affecting the ability of my computers to start normally. I have repeatedly installed OEM Windows 10 Professional on a blank NVMe SSD that has NO partitions and that has been converted to a GPT disk using diskpart. I let Windows do all of the partitioning during the installation - I don't create ANY partitions on the NVMe SSD before Windows is installed. After Windows is installed, I then install True Image 2019 and create a FULL backup to a separate, spinning HDD. I include ALL partitions in the full backup, including the Reserved (MSR) partition, and I DON'T check the "Track 0 (MBR)".
Then I create a Simple rescue disc using the media creation tools in True Image 2019. I then use diskpart's clean command to clear all partitions from the NVMe SSD. I use diskpart again to convert the NVMe SSD to a GPT disk so that it will be seen when I recover partitions using the Simple rescue disc. I am now ready to recover the partitions backed-up in the .TIB file located on the spinning HDD to the blank, GPT-configured, NVMe SSD.
Using the Simple rescue disc (NOT a WinPE ADK rescue disk!) I recover the partitions from the full backup .TIB file that resides on the spinning HDD to the NVMe SSD. I DON'T select "Track 0 (MBR)" when I select the partitions to recover in True Image (this option is for MBR-configured disks only and doesn't apply to GPT-configured disks) but I select all of the other partitions. The Reserved (MSR) partition is not listed as a partition I can recover. As I mentioned in my original post, this issue has been covered here in the True Image forum. After the recovery using the Simple rescue disc, the order of the recovered partitions is identical to the order they were installed by OEM Windows 10 Professional - EXCEPT the Reserved (MSR) partition is missing. When I reboot the computer after the recovery has completed, the computer boots correctly.
When I configure the partition layout recommended by Microsoft for OEMs and system builders, then install Windows 10 Professional onto those partitions, recovering a full backup of this type of Windows 10 Professional installation using the Simple rescue disc does NOT result in the computer booting. Instead, the computer displays an error message stating that there was a problem starting the computer. It then restarts the computer automatically into the Recovery Environment. Once in the Recovery Environment, I navigate to the Startup Repair option. When this is completed I restart the computer and it boots normally.
The information contained in the post linked above regarding Microsoft's recommended partition layout for Windows 10 is a bit misleading. The title of the post is, "UEFI/GPT-based hard drive partitions." Scrolling down the page there is a section titled, "Partition layout." This partition layout is recommended because "This layout lets you use Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption through both Windows and through the Windows Recovery Environment." The default Windows 10 Professional installation configures partitions differently and doesn't allow BitLocker to be used in both the Windows O/S and Recovery Environment. This Microsoft-recommended partition layout is the same partition layout that is recommended for OEMs and system builders; it cannot be recovered by the Simple and Recovery Environment True Image rescue discs without running Startup Repair.
Steve, based on my experimentation, the order of the partitions in your Disk 0 indicates that you somehow used the OEM/system builder partition layout when Windows 10 was installed. Assuming you are using a WinPE ADK rescue disc, not a Simple (or Recovery Environment) rescue disc, you will be able to recover your backed-up partitions and your computer will start normally. But that shouldn't happen if you use a Simple (or Recovery Environment) rescue disc created using True Image 2019's rescue media creation tool.
All of this technical crap may just seem academic, but it's not. I won't proceed with my conversion of Windows 7 computers to Windows 10 computers until I can be confident that I have the correct True Image rescue disc that will always, 100% of the time, recover my backed-up partitions and have the computer start normally. Running Startup Repair to get the computer to boot seems VERY risky to me because I have no clue what Startup Repair is doing in order to get my computer to start normally.
Thanks, Mustang, for the information. I am aware that there is no difference in the True Image application that is launched during a disk and partition recovery - whether the recovery was started using a Simple, Recovery Environment, or WinPE ADK rescue disc.
I understand why backed-up partitions will restore in the order you describe. What I'm freaked out by is the BCD change that you mention. I can't find ANYTHING that discusses what transpires during Startup Repair, so I'm REALLY hesitant to rely upon that process to get my computers bootable. What I want is a 100% reliable process that recovers backed up partitions using a True Image rescue disc and results in the computer booting normally. From everything I've learned, the only 100% reliable True Image rescue disc for all partition layout scenarios is a WinPE ADK rescue disc. Is this correct?
No that is not correct. Restoration results and bootability will be the same for WinPE and WinRE recovery media.
There is another important piece of the puzzle for you to understand. In order to get a bootable restore you need to boot the recovery disk in the same manner as the original system boots. I'm talking about Legacy/MBR boot vs. UEFI/GPT boot. True Image will format the restored disk the same way it is booted. If you boot the recovery disk in Legacy mode, your restored disk will be formatted as MBR. This will cause Windows to not boot if the original disk was formatted as GPT. Likewise, if you boot the recovery media in UEFI mode, True Image will format the restored disk as GPT. This will cause Windows not to boot if the original disk was formatted as MBR.
I have a brand new Sager NP6855 laptop. I have called the manufacturer and asked if the BIOS is UEFI-only or a combination of UEFI and Legacy. They told me UEFI only. There is no legacy CSM module in the BIOS. When I boot ANY DVD from the USB 3.0 DVD drive that I have attached to the laptop (in a USB 3.0 port) I always enter the BIOS and select the UEFI USB DVD drive. The BIOS boot selection option specifically identifies the USB DVD drive as a UEFI device. This boot process applies to installing Windows 10 Professional OEM from its DVD as well as booting a True Image rescue disc. Everything on this computer is always 100% UEFI.
I have tried both Simple and Recovery Environment True Image rescue discs, created from within True Image 2019, and the only time the computer successfully boots without having to run Startup Repair is when the partition layout was established by Windows when it was installed to a blank drive. If I have any partition layout other that the one created by Windows during its installation (e.g., the OEM partition layout recommended by Microsoft that I create before installing Windows) the laptop will not boot without running Startup Repair.
Everything in my experiments points to the fact that both the True Image Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs, created from within True Image 2019, will only work correctly with the partition layout installed by Windows on a blank drive. Any suggestions on what else I might test?
If I have any partition layout other that the one created by Windows during its installation (e.g., the OEM partition layout recommended by Microsoft that I create before installing Windows) the laptop will not boot without running Startup Repair.
Bill, are you setting up the partition layout before selecting to restore any data from the backup to those partitions?
If yes, then this is not something that I ever do! I let ATI restore the partitions as found within the backup image being recovered and have never had an issue with doing this.
If I want the partitions be be laid out differently than the way they are laid out during a default Windows 10 installation (where Windows installs to a blank GPT disk) I do that before I install Windows. Then, when I install Windows I tell it which primary partition to use for installation and it does its thing. Then I install True Image 2019 and create a FULL backup. Then I create either a Simple or Recovery Environment rescue disc. When I try to recover the partitions saved in the .TIB file with a Simple or Recovery Environment rescue disk the computer will not boot. I have to run Startup Repair to get it to boot. This is what leads me to believe that the Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs will work normally (without Startup Repair) only if the partition layout is determined by Windows installing to a blank hard disk.
If you have a known partition layout you want to maintain, take a look at this thread in the 2016 forum:
I wrote that as a guide to restore a disk keeping the MSR partition in its original location. It involves creating the partitions ahead of the restore and restoring only one partition at a time. If you select to restore the full disk, True Image will wipe out your settings and repartition the disk as it wants to. This method should assure you get a bootable restored disk.
Mustang, I have been using the exact process you put together in the link you posted in your last reply. I'm going to try it one more time to make sure I haven't missed something.
Us posting back and forth isn't going to work. You need to do some experimenting. You need to restore to a target disk that is NOT the same size as the source disk. You should see that the MSR partition is moved to the beginning of the disk. The other partitions should be in the same order as they were on the source disk. The results should be the some for restores from Simple, WinRE Advanced and WinPE ADK media.
I did some experimenting myself. I made a full disk backup of a Windows 10 64 bit UEFI/GPT system. I used TI 2020 build 22510 for the tests. I created three recovery USB drives. The first was created using the Simple method (WinRE). The second was created using the Advanced WinRE method. The third was created using the Advanced ADK WinPE method.
I tested many restoration methods. First, I restored to a larger disk initiated GPT with no partitions on it. I did the same restore using each of the three recovery disks. The restore was a full disk restore. Each time Windows booted normally. As expected, the 16 MB MSR partition the was in the second position on the original disk was changed to a 128 MB MSR in the first position. Second, I did a full disk restore to the original disk with all its partitions in place. The restored disk booted into Windows normally. I was surprised to see that the partition layout was changed. As I mention in a previous post, I had expected to see the original partition layout unchanged. Instead, I got the 128 MB MSR partition in the first position on the disk. This is new behavior for TI 2020. It must be because of the change to the .tibx format. Third, I restored on top of the original disk but this time I uncheck the 0 Track checkbox. TI then progressed one partition at a time. Each time I just clicked the Okay button without supplying a new partition location. There was some delay while the program though between each partition screen, but the restore did complete. The result was better. Windows booted normally and the original disk layout was maintained exactly! The 16 MB MSR partition was in the second position on the disk. Fourth, I restored to a new disk. This time I created the correct partition layout on the target disk ahead of time. I did the restore by selecting a full disk restore and then unchecking the 0 Track checkbox. As each partition screen came up I used the new location option to select the proper partition on the target disk. The restore was successful. Windows booted normally and the restored disk had the exact partition layout as the original disk.
Conclusions:
There was no difference at all in the restoration results for the three recovery disk. This was as expected.
If you want to keep the same partition layout, you need to uncheck the 0 Track checkbox when restoring to the original disk. You can also just restore the C: drive Windows partition alone if you just need to get windows back to an earlier state.
If you want to keep the same partition layout when restoring to a new disk, you need to partition it ahead of time and uncheck the 0 Track checkbox.
EDIT:
These tests were done using TI 2020 recovery media. With TI 2019 recovery media, restoring on top of the original partition with a full disk restore should keep the original disk layout intact.
Thank you, Mustang, for taking the time to do your experiments. I appreciate it very much!
In all of my postings I neglected to mention that the Simple and Recovery Environment rescue discs failed when I recovered my original Windows O/S primary partition (which is 500 GB in size but Windows only occupies 53 GB) to a smaller NVMe SSD where the Windows primary partition was set at 100GB (the EFI and Recovery partitions were recovered at their original size, 100MB and 850MB, respectively). I wouldn't think this would be an issue, but I don't know for sure.
It appears that Startup Repair scans the installed Windows system for corrupt or missing system files and boot files. After reading the log generated by Startup Repair I did some more research that led me to running the System File Checker (SFC). But, SFC won't correct system files unless it is run in Safe Mode. So, I booted into Safe Mode and ran SFC. Hooray! The system booted. On a hunch I decided to re-recover my system using True Image (for the umpteenth time) again and see if booting into Safe Mode WITHOUT running SFC would cause Windows to boot normally. IT DID! I have known for years that booting into Safe Mode often "clears" boot issues that prevent a computer from booting normally. This is exactly what happened in this case.
When I created my original installation of Windows 10 Pro on my new computer, I created a configuration that will be used as a "base image" for all other computers of the same make and model. I took the time to download the most current and supported drivers from the computer manufacturer's website and install them. While I was installing these downloaded drivers, Windows 10 was automatically searching the Internet for the latest drivers and installed what it found (I didn't know this was the default behavior of a new Windows 10 Pro installation!). I backed up my "base configuration" using True Image 2019 (which is the True Image 2019 backup that doesn't boot when it's recovered). I suspect that Windows 10 automatically installing driver and application updates is what caused my computer not to boot after I recovered it using any of the True Image 2019 rescue discs.
When I installed a new version of Windows 10 Pro to see if it would boot normally after a True Image 2019 recovery (which it did using any of the True Image 2019 rescue discs) I didn't download and install the computer manufacturer's supported drivers. Instead, as soon as I has a bootable Windows 10 Pro installation, I backed it up using True Image 2019. This is the single difference between the two installations of Windows 10 Pro. I believe this explains why my "base image" backup doesn't boot after being recovered by True Image 2019 and the "non-base image" backup does. The moral of this long and tortuous story - If a True Image 2019 (and I suspect True Image 2018 as well) doesn't boot after recovery, BOOT INTO SAFE MODE TO SEE IF THAT WILL FIX YOUR BOOT PROBLEM. If I had done this the first time my True Image 2019 recovery didn't boot I would have saved myself (and the members of this forum) a ton of time!
My question now is, "Why does booting into Safe Mode enable the computer to boot normally after a True Image recovery of non-default Windows installation partitions?"