Acronis
Imagine my surprise when I came here to post this message and found another post, created only today, with the same title. Having read that post, I decided it's not the same, so I will now begin my own. I realize there are more than a few Acronis "MVP" fans here; please understand that this message is intended for official Acronis employees.
I purchased your True Image software on January 10th after deciding that my new SSD was defective. I did some research and discovered that your company is popular among SSD users. You were not the cheapest, but the software promised to do what I needed done, and you have gotten good reviews in the past.
I wanted to back up my SSD so I could restore it to the replacement drive without rebuilding my entire system. When I reviewed your software I realized the key to doing this successfully was to create my backup from rescue media. Included with my purchase was an app for building bootable rescue discs.
I was quite surprised when the first disc I built would not run True Image. As soon as I clicked on the application the disc would hang. I made several attempts, but I could not get past that screen. Reading on the forums I learned that a preconfigured bootable media image was available, and eventually I discovered the "bootable media" tab on my account profile.
By this point I have been working on getting a backup for a couple of hours. I downloaded the bootable image and burned it to disc. This one worked much better, but I could not figure out how to address the USB 3.0 drive I had bought for backups. I made several attempts, trying different tweaks in the BIOS. I know that USB 3.0 is very driver dependent, and I assumed that it was a problem with my Asus motherboard or my configuration.
In the end I put a SATA drive in the computer and backed up my SSD to that. Fortunately my 1TB SSD was not very full, and I had enough room on a physical disc to hold the TIB file for my backup.
Six weeks later my system is getting where I want it to be, and considering my experience with the first SSD I want to get a backup. I went to Best Buy and started shopping for backups, and from talking to people it really sounds like what I want to use is a USB 3.0 drive. So I'm back on these forums, and what I found Saturday is posts going all the way back to December that True Image has stopped working with USB 3.0 drives.
One lengthy thread ends with the revelation (finally!) that Acronis has a problem on the bootable image. But they're telling the user that there won't be another ISO released until Windows 10 comes out. I was quite put off by this, but when I tried to register my complaint with Acronis I was told that I would have to pay $20 because my support period has run out.
Naturally, this made me quite upset. The software is broken, and even though none of us are using Windows 10 there won't be a new image until you can test it with Windows 10 systems. Really??? Look, I already paid $50 for this (and I'm sure as heck not going to pay another $20 to get it working!). It sounds like some buyers paid more than I did. It's never worked correctly, and people are still forking over money for it. It seems to me, you have a responsibility to the people who have the software now, and who have already paid.
Now, I see someone named Anna on this forum being generally helpful to people on behalf of Acronis. I'm glad you people run this forum, but it's evident that the main source of knowledge here is generous users. Indeed, a few of them have suggested ways of building a bootable image for my computer and I may eventually take them up on it. But they're not the ones with the ethical obligation here. And in my defense I've already burned two CDs in the pursuit of making this program do what I bought it for. And I've spent six or seven hours working on it, with really nothing to show for it but some workarounds.
So I just want you to know that it is not a good business model to keep us all waiting until the next Windows release before you fix the TI 2015 boot image. It's not good customer service, and it's not good ethics. You guys should be rushing to push out a new, repaired image. And because of the lack of free support available to most owners, you really owe it to us to post on this forum an explanation of what the problem is and what you're doing about it. I think in the end that's better than a whole bunch of posts from people complaining that the program doesn't work. Which, if you browse through this forum looking for them, is pretty much what we've got here. It's past time to act on this.
And if you can't fix the software in short order, then what about making the last working version of the software available to purchasers? From what I hear, lots of people were perfectly satisfied with the previous version, including several who have confirmed that the USB 3.0 drivers in that system worked fine.
Thank you for your time. I hope you will correct this problem and restore some sagging goodwill.
John,
The issue with the Ti 2015 Recovery Media is that of a drive issue, the Linux kernel supports USB 3.0 see this link post #49:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/76154
Your suggestion of a WinPE boot disk is a viable workaround. Not all users are capable of creating one however.
Enchantech,
I would have to disagree with you about 'Linux kernel supports USB 3.0' - not all Linux kernels support USB 3.0 because it depends on the kernel version.
I had a quick read through forum #76154 as you suggested and have to politely say that you may have confused the situation by going into too much unnecessary detail (resistor values on USB ports for example). You have also infact suggested twice what I suggested above - simply make and use a WinPE based recovery disk (I know it is an inconvenience by downloading the True Image add-on and Microsoft Assessment and Deployment kit, but it is a verified solution to the USB 3.0 problem):
Just a few thoughts here:
Users with drives over 4TB in size: Linux support for such drives may not be supported in the rescue media Linux kernel used for the rescue media. Suggest create WinPE disk for your purposes.
Users with 4TB drives and smaller in size: Windows security enforcement may be at work here especially with Win 8.1 in that because you are using an application that is attempting to perform disk level functions to an external device. Windows may interpret that as a security policy violation and simply not allow the action to continue. Again suggest you create a WinPE disk using the latest SDK from Microsoft and try that to see if this makes a difference.
You also suggest a somewhat mundane 'try-and-see' approach and end on saying 'it is quite obvious that this issue has to do with the USB drivers of that kernel'.
Anyone experiencing the problem of USB 3.0 drives not being detected when using the Recovery Boot Media should try this:
1. Start by unplugging your USB 3.0 external drive from your machine. You should do this with the machine completely shut down.
2. Restart your machine and boot to the Recovery Boot Media.
3. Once the Recovery Media loads and True Image has started, plug in your external USB 3.0 drive.
4. Wait several minutes (3 to 4 should be sufficient) and see if you now have access to the drive.
Essentially what you are doing here is this:
Since the Recovery Media is based on a Linux kernel it is quite obvious that this issue has to do with the USB drivers of that kernel. Most Linux distros use a generic USB driver and those drivers for USB 3.0 run in xCHI Mode whereas Intel based motherboards use ECHI Mode for the installed USB 3.0 ports.
Modern Linux kernels support hot plugging of USB 3.0 devices so in attaching your device after the Recovery Media is running should trigger the Linux kernel driver to make a takeover call to the USB controller on the motherboard and once that request is honored the Linux kernel can load the appropriate xCHI driver which should in turn allow access to your drive/device.
I have not tested this myself but my investigation into this issue says that this has a very good chance to work so those of you whom are willing to test it out please do so and let us know your results.
Yes I agree, it is obvious that it has something to do with the linux USB drivers. I think Graham sums it up the same way I would:
Hi Enchantec,Again, you've written a very informative article. Your knowledge of USB versions far surpasses mine. However, if you've written this post based on the fact that TI 2015 Recovery Media works when the USB3.0 drive is plugged into a USB2.0 socket, then you clearly haven't read my comments properly. Sometimes it's better to stand back and look at the basic details before digging into the finer points.
Facts, as found with my hardware:
On three radically different PC's with different USB architectures, TI 2015 Recovery Media does not recognise my 5TB Seagate USB3.0 drive plugged into USB3.0 or USB2.0 sockets.
On the same PC's, TI 2013 Recovery Media has full read/write access to the same drive plugged into USB3.0 or USB2.0 socket.
On the same PC's, TI 2013 and TI 2015 WinPE Recovery Media has full read/write access to the same drive plugged into USB3.0 or USB2.0 socket. So too does MustangPE Recovery Media running TI 2015.
The only common point of failure is TI 2015 Recovery Media.
In summary, using the linux based recovery media doesn't see my USB 3.0 drive; using the WinPE based media on the same computer and same external drive does - the problem is with the linux based True Image 2015 rescue media not seeing USB 3.0 drives because of a driver issue.
John,
My comments as you have outlined above were all troubleshooting suggestions. Often times problems/issues are not what they appear. The purpose was to establish if in fact there was a driver problem and it turns out that yes there is.
Did you take note that Graham in post #49 states that he successfully used Acronis Backup V11.5 boot media to recognize his drives and that the Linux kernel used in Acronis Backup V11.5 is the same as TI 2015?
Not sure how you conclude that the Linux kernel does not support USB 3.0. The kernel supports USB 3.0, the problem is that the driver implementation is flawed.
Enchantech,
Please don't try and complicate the matter. I have said all along that using the WinPE rescue media works with USB 3.0 drives, whereas the linux distro rescue media didn't. You mentioned in your earlier post and in forum #76154 that it was a drive issue which obviously it is not.
John,
The issue with the Ti 2015 Recovery Media is that of a drive issue, the Linux kernel supports USB 3.0 see this link post #49:
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/76154
Your suggestion of a WinPE boot disk is a viable workaround. Not all users are capable of creating one however.
That is why I said:
Enchantech,
I would have to disagree with you about 'Linux kernel supports USB 3.0' - not all Linux kernels support USB 3.0 because it depends on the kernel version.
Whether or not the Acronis Backup V11.5 boot media uses the same linux kernel as True Image 2015 boot media is irrelevant - the linux distro boot media that comes with True Image 2015 (whether it's kernel/driver/script/whatever reason) does not work with USB 3.0 drives. That is what I have said all along without unnecessary background information like what was provided in forum #76154. Acronis needs to fix this so that it does not cause frustration for other users.
thanks for joining with your opinions and experiences guys!
https://forum.acronis.com/forum/84398
"I have used True Image 9.0, 2012 and now 2015, and I have to say 9.0 was the most reliable."
agreed!
Post moved the this thread https://forum.acronis.com/forum/76154 .
Just to clarify an important point which I made in the thread mentioned a few times above: I was sent an Acronis Backup v11.5 boot ISO by Acronis Support, which I used to make a boot CD. This software worked flawlessly with my USB3.0 external drive on three very different PC's and a variety of USB2.0, USB3.0 sockets, a PCIe to USB3.0 adapter and an ExpressCard to USB3.0 adapter. Note that the Linux kernel version was identical to the True Image 2015 Linux kernel. Only the date was different. This highlights that the problem was caused by Acronis when they compiled the True Image boot media. Acronis have admitted that it's a driver issue and that they will fix this, originally after Windows 10 is released, but I have now been told that they are going to push it through quicker. They have also told me that the fix will be free to all current True Image 2015 license holders.
Please, let's not all start bickering about who has said what on this matter. There has been extensive venting of frustrations on this forum about Acronis support for TI 2015 and their lack of appreciation of the scale and severity of the problems. There has also been extensive suggestions by forum users as to the cause of the problem, which has now been found. Some of those suggestions were made on the basis of a misunderstanding or misreading previous comments, but were made with best intentions for all. I'm sure that these threads have been monitored by Acronis who are now treating it with more urgency. I'm quite sure that Acronis only looked into the problem at a proper level after I, and maybe others, highlighted to them the fact that there are so many complaints about TI 2015 on these forums. Until then, they told me to make a WinPE boot disc and not to use their own recommended Rescue Media boot disc. After highlighting this thread https://forum.acronis.com/forum/76154 to them, they agreed to try to find the cause of the problem and after extensive testing by myself at their request, they concluded that the problem was with the Linux build. At which point, they informed me that they won't release an update until they can test it on Windows 10, which is due for release towards the end of this year. I again reminded them that this was unacceptable and I updated the thread to let others know of their response. A few days later, they told me that they were going to push it through quicker.
I would agree with Acronis that it is now important to build a WinPE boot disc. It's not a quick task, but there are threads on here which show how to do this. It's not the final solution that I want to see, but is a temporary fix in the event that you need to restore your system if TI 2015 default Recovery Media does not work.