ATI Home 2012 - Editing tasks STILL unreliable ??
I've recently upgraded to 2012 and am finding the change in UI from 2011 particularly flummoxing... In an attempt to set up a regime like I used to have I've been experiencing all sorts of problems... I've been reading around recent posts and noticed that there still seems to be issues when editing tasks and the recommendation is not to do it...
This was a problem back in 2009, I'm astounded that such basic functionalitiy is still unreliable!! In fact unreliable is the last attribute you want from backup software, but it's definitely something that persists with ATI...
Here is a link which can help make backups on 2012 or 2013 more understandable.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/28705
As for editing tasks, in my opinion, your best chance of success is still to avoid any edits and point each task to an empty sub-folder. Avoid having multiple tasks store their files in same folder.
Editing is permitted by the program but results are unpredictable. Sometimes, the program can react correctly to your edits and sometimes not. Much will depend upon the type of edit being performed. A change of schedule may work but a change of backup file name or the number of chains will usually produce unpredictable results. I do NOT speak for Acronis but my suggestion is to avoid edits and create a new task whenever an edit is needed. Whenever you update a version or a build, my preference is to start a new task as a backup is too important to mess with changes.
From my experience, editing the backup name, scheme, retention rules, destination will work and is supported by the application, but the results might be unintuitive, and may result in unintentional errors and confusion during a restore. Much of this problem is due to the archive file management system, through the database, and how "corrective" manual file operations can create these errors and confusion later.
Scott - I got this upgrade as part of the email leak mea culpa... so I doubt there's a further trade up
Grover / Pat - Thanks, sounds like it's still unreliable as before. For something like backup software, you need to have a concrete feeling in your stomach that it's reliable. I've never had that from ATI ever since the time I tried to EDIT a backup TASK in 2009 and it DELETED a valid BACKUP. That was a truely WTF moment... !
I'd just about got comfortable with the quirks of 2011 when I had the offer of the 2012 upgrade at the same time as I was building a new Windows 7 system and was dismayed to find a completely new way of doing EVERYTHING.... With a whole set of new quirks to learn, and I just don't have the spare time to learn them at the moment...
Fwiw, I've found 2013 to be the least quirky of the 2010-2013 series.
Anthony,
I have been using TI since version 8 and it has never failed to perform backups and restore those backups either to the same or to a new disk. This consistency is why I still use and recommend the product. Is it perfect? No! What backup software is?
My point related to editing a task.
Frankly, it is my personal opinion is that Acronis is wrong even for allowing the edit to take place. Since Acronis has switched to the database method of tracking/controlling the backup instructions, any change is changing the foundation of the software at the foundation level. If you already have the 2nd floor of a house built and you want to change the size of the basement, you have to remove the 1st and 2nd floor and start all over. As I see it, editing a task is changing the foundation--which has already been built. As I would see it, the only completely sure fire fix would be to start over at the beginning and this is why my recommendation has been to rather than edit, simply start a new task which is really just building a new foundation with different variation.
I understand that others may have different feelings about task editing and they are certainly entitled to their personal wishes. From a practical standpoint, most edits are simply not practical for the correct continuation of a task. This is just my personal comments and others are free to disagree.
And yes, I would agree that 2013 is very promising. Definitely better than 2012 and 2011 and maybe even 2010 but too soon to tell. I am looking forward to the next build which should make the software even more sturdy than before. Will it be perfect? No! But if are looking for a backup and recovery program for your Window software, 2013 is certainly one to consider.
Your issue with the unwanted deletion of backups is something the users have been trying to get changed for quite some time. IMHO, Acronis needs to make the user more aware of what is being deleted when the user makes a deletion request. Hopefully, a near future build will provide the user a list of pending backup file deletions before a deletion request will actually occur. Currently, the software is not clear that the using the deletion option can actually delete both the task and the actual backup file.
Not quite true about house building. It depends on the kind of change you're making. But some adjustable temporary posts are often a better solution than gutting all the way up or down.
Don't know the exact cause of the prob on ati though-- if someone did it'd be fixed by now.
Even if it's best to rebuild a task from scratch a program could do that just by the user telling what he/she wanted diff. that it was rebuilding from scratch would be invisible to the user. In logical terms it's a strictly a formal problem, reducible to a touring exercise. It can be down; we just haven't seen it yet.
Anthony,
I have been using TI since version 8 and it has never failed to perform backups and restore those backups either to the same or to a new disk. This consistency is why I still use and recommend the product. Is it perfect? No! What backup software is?My point related to editing a task.
Frankly, it is my personal opinion is that Acronis is wrong even for allowing the edit to take place. Since Acronis has switched to the database method of tracking/controlling the backup instructions, any change is changing the foundation of the software at the foundation level. If you already have the 2nd floor of a house built and you want to change the size of the basement, you have to remove the 1st and 2nd floor and start all over. As I see it, editing a task is changing the foundation--which has already been build. As I would see it, the only completely sure fire fix would be to start over at the beginning and this is why my recommendation has been to rather than edit, simply start a new task which is really just building a new foundation with different variation.I understand that others may have different feelings about task editing and they are certainly entitled to their personal wishes. From a practical standpoint, most edits are simply not practical for the correct continuation of a task. This is just my personal comments and others are free to disagree.
And yes, I would agree that 2013 is very promising. Definitely better than 2012 and 2011 and maybe even 2010 but too soon to tell. I am looking forward to the next build which should make the software even more sturdy than before. Will it be perfect? No! But if are looking for a badup and recovery program for your Window software, 2013 is certainly one to consider.
Scott,
It certainly would be nice if editing would produce a task as desired by the user and I would agree that it doable.
Before a change is accepted, the user could be advised of the resulting changes caused by the edit request. User would then what to expect from the changes. Currently, any change is unpredictable.
Remodeling a house or a backup task is all in the hands of the builder/programer. Some are better than others.
You're method too would be a distinct improvement. I was just saying if the only safe way is to start from scratch, that's how the program could do it behind the scenes--it could be written that way. Just like the schediling problem tat ati used to have. one could conquer with batch file commands but it took years to get this proficiency into the program -- they could have just co-opted the batch commands and made it look like internal coding--in fact, for all we know, that's what they finally did.
reducible to a touring exercise.
Is that a "touring exercise" as in cycling around the countryside, or as in a Turing exercise?
:D
lol. Actually, it works either way, although I meant "Turing".
I'd blame the spell checker but if I did, I know it would just get even with me later.
Pardon my injection here, but this topic seems to relate to a problem I am now experiencing after upgrading ATI2010 to ATI2013. I had successfully installed ATI2013, built a new Acronis Secure Zone and started ATI2013. While examining the scheduled tasks (imported from ATI2010's configuration) I made two changes; modified the comment for one task and deleted the last task in the list.
Now every time I start ATI2013, there is a 2-3 second pause and then the program crashes giving reference to module timanagers.dll. Nothing I do seems to solve the crashing. The product is useless to me right now.
I should also mention that the ASZ partition used with ATI2010 was recovered (but not re-linked to ATI) following a recent hard disk partition table corruption. So, even though, I could see a list of .TIBs in the recovered ASZ, ATI2013, during installation, did not find an ASZ and thus prompted me to create a new one (hoping that I would be able to copy the contents of the old one into the new one..... in light of the persistent and complete failure of ATI2013 to run as a result of deleting a task, my hope of being able to retrieve previous backup sessions is greatly dampened).
In summary, do any of you have an idea on how to clean up or clean out the task list so that ATI203 will once again start?
Is there a stand-alone utility for editing directly the task database?
Is it possible to re-import the task list from ATI2010's configuration without re-installation of ATI2013?
Is re-installation ATI2013 my fallback action?
Thanks for any tips you may have.
Dave
I haven't tried editing tasks for a while, but I know that Grover (an MVP here) recommends against it. Certainly I would advise against relying on tasks imported from 2010 to 2013. It would be safer to create new tasks.
I advise against creating the Secure Zone. It's really meant as a sub-optimal method of backup for people who have no external target to which to backup. If your drive fails, you would lose your system, files, and your Secure Zone backups.
It's much better and safer to make backup images to an external hard drive.
Also, in the past there were occasonal reports of the Secure Zone causing problems to the system. When I installed Secure Zone on one PC, it corrupted the hard drive causing data loss and rendering the system unbootable. Perhaps the latest versions of Secure Zone are improved, but that experience coupled with its inherent insecurity and lack of reduncancy cause me to be wary of Secure Zone.
If I were in your situation, I would uninstall 2013 and then run Acronis True Image Cleanup Utility for 2011-2013, including following all the steps on that page: http://kb.acronis.com/content/34876
I agree with Tuttle. And I'd build new tasks from scratch.
Just as an aside, Do you really need the ASZ? You might be better off jsut backing up to another hdisk or external hdisk.
Thanks, Tutle, for the link to the cleanup utility. The problem I have, I think, is even if I re-install ATI2013 it may still find and list tasks from ATI2010, which puts me at risk, once again, if I delete or edit a task. Am I to create only new tasks and let the old ones clutter up the landscape forever? I guess I can do that but it does not give me confidence that a slip up later may again hose my ATI2013 installation, requiring another re-installation.
I will proceed, however, with your recommendations if ATI Support has no better suggestions.
As an aside, the ASZ partition appealed to me as it does not use a drive letter and remains mostly out of Windows' way.
Thanks for the tips.
Dave
I you run the cleaner, it should delete everything, including tasks -- iirc, you ca tell it to leave license info behind (which would be a good idea). If you wanted to keep tasks you'd export them then import them after reinstalling, but recommendation in this case is not to keep them.
Dave,
You need to review this link. It shows how to delete all backup tasks via clicking one option. You also set the option so the "Scan for backups" at startup does not occur.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/31895
As you are new to 2013, I would also suggest you investing some reading time via this link. This will answer questions you may not have considered at this early date.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/28705