Recovery for a Dell Partion fails, is all lost?

Well I guess I have no choice but to give up on the original image. Going to load Vista, then do an imagex of the factory restore image I have a copy of to the partition. Hopefully the license come along with it. I guess I've gotten so use to Acronis acting flawlessly I trusted it wouldn't do what it did. I would still appreciate feedback for future use, I always felt if I got a good backup, I was good for a restore. It's kind of what I paid for...

Does the image validate OK?

Your full backup, was that of the complete disk including the hidden recovery partition or just the C:\ partition?

What do you mean you had to manually restore the factory image? Was this from the recovery partition or from your Acronis Image?

Where do you get the error messages, when booted form the Rescue CD or when booting into Windows?

One reason you didn't get any replies is becuase you mistakenly posted in the ABR10 forum instead of the True Image Home, where more people would have seen it.

If you edit your first post, you can transfer this thread into the TIH forum, where you might get more help.

Thanx, I guess someone moved it over to TIH?

Archive validates OK.

Full backup was everything, I checked the whole disk.

Dell has the factory image stored as file called factory.wim. I used imagex to restore it. It only restores the C: OS, nothing else.

Booted from the rescue CD, pressed restore and within a sec the invalid fat comes up.

Dell machines seem to cause nothing but problems :( .

Restoring the other partitions if you've imaged them shouldn't be a problem, but at this moment any programs on the other partition won't run if they require registry entries.

Try restoring the C: and other partition, but exclude the FAT16.

Have you tried downloading the ISO version of the CD, which is in your account? This might boot correctly.

Thanx. You got that right, the restore partitions are so touchy.

I tried restoring without the FAT16 but I still got a failed to restore and the log showed that the FAT32 partition was corrupted. If I left both off, the recovery took place but was not bootable. I'm sure if I played with the fixmbr and other tools maybe I could have gotten it to work but I was running out of patience.

Not sure what you mean by the ISO version, do you mean of TIH? That's what I'm using, the recovery CD.

I got a copy of Vista (won't say where I found it but I hope it was okay), installed it, then laid the C: image only down on top of that. I've done that before and luckily it seemed to work okay.

As far as the machine goes that's no longer in my hands so I won't be able to really try anything suggested at this point. I don't think the issue was machine specific which I've seen before. I even removed the drive, placed it into a tower I use for situations like this with the same results trying to restore. If it was my machine I wouldn't care so much, if this is specific to the Dell image (which I've successfully imaged and restored before) I could work with that. If it was a version issue I'd be okay as well, down level to even 9 which I never had an issue with. But to have an image that backs up okay, verifies okay and then can not be restored defeats the entire purpose of having backup software. I could almost take that if it weren't for the fact it initialized my drive before immediately throwing up the error. In the future I won't be so quick to restore the drive, just the partition I'm working on but I find it tough to recommend a product that behaves like this.

I'll take any other suggestions and I might be back as I just noticed an image taken with the older version of 11 (not Home 2011) is showing as corrupted when verified with Home 2011. I have to go see if the recovery CD for 11 does the same. I only bring that up because a backup I have from 11 has the same Dell recovery partitions so I was going to lay that down to get back working again. Another fail, but maybe it really was corrupted.

Going to bed now, but the ISO version of the CD is not the same as the one you made using TIH 2011. The ISO version uses a different kernel that is updated more frequently as it's drivers are more up- to- date you might have better luck with it.

However, I can't recall hearing of your exact problem before, so will have to have a think.

Good info, I will go in search of it and get me a few copies. I will attempt to restore the image I have to another drive using old and new CD. Of course if the issue resides with the backup, that won't tell me too much. Appreciate the help.

Well I tried using the same version of TIH 2011 recovery CD to restore the same image on another drive on another machine and instead of having the error it ran fine. So without the original drive and machine, I'm not sure what I can do to try and simulate the error again. I am concerned about using 2011, I never had an issue with 9 or 11. Problem is I will be getting a new machine for my wife soon and will want to install 2011 on there so she can have live backups but I'm just not convinced I won't have an issue if it comes to doing a restore.

What you describe is interesting. I just ran into the same type of problem with fake Dell partitions. I thought it was because they were fake, but now I'm not so sure.

In my case, the TI 2011 CD would not restore at all due to the FAT partition being invalid. However, I could restore using the Windows version if I restored the entire drive or if I restored back to the same partitions. If I tried to restore just the FAT partition to unallocated space it would fail. There also seemed to be some inconsistencies -- sometimes TI would restore it and sometimes not.

This was a test and not the booting Windows so a restore was more easily possible. WinPE may have worked, but I didn't try it. Stuck in this position with the booted Windows would be bad.

The problem comes from ati 2011 not restoring the partition descriptors in the table.. If the fat 16 partition has another id, for example DE instead of the normal one. Ati will not pick up on this and therefore says there is an error. The custom boot code from dell expects the standard fat16 hex descriptor. And failing to restore it, the mbr won't boot!!

Is it too much to ask the software to not perform the backup and say its successful if it can't be restored? I would have had no problem restoring just the OS back had I known. But I didn't so the entire drive was wiped on the error. My fault, but I thought I was playing it safe as I was poking around with the dell restore partition. Had it not done that, I imagine I could have restored just the OS and rebuilt the MBR.

Is this true with older versions though? I thought I had no problems doing this with older versions, in fact, I only ever remember one issue with version 9. A hot backup restored but the XP image it restored was running really slow. I believe version 9 as no issue doing cold backups of even windows 7 partitions so as long as its cold, maybe I should just stick with that.

Maybe too late for original poster, but a client had this problem after updating to TIH 2011 on a Dell laptop. V11 was fine. Everything that follows involves restoring from a bootable CD, not Windows. Version 2011 will not restore one or both of the hidden Dell partitions (one FAT16, one FAT32) either from a backup it made itself or from an old, good backup. The old backup restores perfectly with the program that made it (v11). I was able to work round this using bootable CDs for program v11 and program v2011, an out-of-date v11 backup, and an up-to-date v2011 backup. Booted v11, restored MBR and both FAT partitions from an old backup (they don't change). V11 wouldn't restore the main NTFS partition from the backup made with the newer v2011, so restored that one partition with the v2011 CD. It took me hours to work this out, including time spent waiting - it started out with a "recover operation failed" nightmare. Can't bill for all that.

In my opinion this is a very serious error in TIH2011; attempting to restore a Dell backup wipes the partition table (as is required before restoring), then abends, leaving an unbootable disc. It makes matters worse than having no backup at all. Reminds me of someone I persuaded to buy an interruptible power supply (UPS) for his network, which had fortunately worked without trouble for years. I recommended a make with a good reputation, installed it, and it promptly failed, powering down the server abruptly. Never bought anything of that make again...

Hope this is comprehensible, it's late...

Hi Michael - thanx for at least a validation of what I experienced. I just didn't have any of the images around taken with V11 or earlier to restore. I just can not express how frustrating it is to have a backup utility that takes a backup, then refuses to restore it leaving a completely unusable drive, really defeats the entire reason to perform a backup. I'm just sticking with V9 from now on as I never had an issue with that with cold backups. Thanx again for posting, glad you got through it.

Not to late for me! Thank you for confirming what all my experiments proved!! ATI 2011 will indeed fail to restore a dell or hp or gateway machine correctly. I don't want to hear, "Oh, gateway?? They're outta business?? Phooey...?!@#@!"..

Anyways, to bring everyone up to speed on my situation. I was asked to work on a mission-critical top-secret computer. And my task was to image the drive. It is a basic dell system. And my orders were to capture the entire disk. And then be able to restore that entire disk. The procedure had to be easy to do for the operator and reliable. It was suggested I try ati2011. Well I made a simulated dell partition configuration like the original system. And ati failed. I tried it for fun on a similarly configured gateway, it also failed! Eventually I got around to testing it on a real identical dell system without the top-secret data. And it FAILED!! In the exact manner as my simulated testing.

What is the *WORST* part is it said it made the backup successfully. But upon restore, there is a failure right at the end!! It was very consistent and insistent. It repeatedly failed to put back what it said it backed up. IMHO this is utterly unacceptable. I mean, really now, how can a backup by ati be truested?? Isn't that the whole point of backup software? But my opinion, I am most certain, does not mean a damned thing with acronis. Well not to worry, I just cannot continue to recommend this as a backup solution. I'm sure it will trickle down in lost sales sooner or later. And a little bit of negative advertising by me will spread around bit by bit. When I get the time I'll set up a blog about this. I have no intention of forgetting the time-wasting experience these past weeks.

Backup software that says it completed a successful backup, then consistently fails to restore.. What a farce indeed! I'm sorry for seemingly getting all upset, but my reputation is important, and acronis isn't making me look good. I'm just glad you folks confirmed what my preliminary testing confirmed!

So from what you folks experienced, V9 or V11 will correctly image and restore all three dell partitions?? I'm pretty sure about V9 because It will grab a win98 partition, whereas 2011 will NOT.

I suppose I could use v9 or v11 if you folks have been successful with it.

Thanks!

If yuou failed at the very end then your experience was a little different than mine. Mine would fail at the very beginning, issues with the FAT partitions. If you look around for FAT15 you'll see people recognizing possible issues with that partition. I've never had an issue with 9, tried 11 once on a backup for a friend, who's machine I was working on, it's a dell but I think it only has the one restore partition, not the older two partitions. I will check on the restore by restoring to a different drive. Shame on me as I have always used a second drive for testing restores and fixing issues to make sure the original is untouched until I have the second drive working the way I want. This time I did not.

Can I make a suggestion you start you're own thread so you get responses and the problem does appear to be a little different at least in the failure.

The restore that failed at the end could be the same issue as discussed initially if the hidden partition was restored last, rather than first.

I don't know if the problem has been fixed in later versions of TrueImage, but I would make a couple of comments in case it affects others. None of this denies that TrueImage had (may still have?) a really appalling and destructive error. Getting round the problem requires a certain amount of skill or, for people who don't have it themselves, expense.

1. The important backup(s) of partition(s) with most of operating system, programs, and data, are likely to be OK and restorable. Somehow making the machine bootable, then reinstating the backed-up data, should at worst avoid loss of anything important, and probably leave a fully-working Windows machine.

2. I've never, ever, used a hidden partition on the many machines I've been involved with, though I've always zealously preserved them. I consider them useless. On the Dell, one had diagnostics - I prefer to download the latest bootable diagnostic CD if I need it, and start the machine with it. The other had files to restore the system to factory condition (operating system only; all data and programs lost). This might be needed by someone with an unbootable machine, no viable backup, and no cost-free access to an operating system installation disc (though they can always be bought); but I have never been in this situation. And the partition won't protect against hard disc failure.

In the case of the machine that gave me such grief, I ended up deleting the system partitions when doing an operating system upgrade; later TrueImage backups could be restored. But I wouldn't have recommended TI in the first place if I'd imagined this problem could happen.

Hope this is still relevant after so long.

Always relevant, thanx. To some extent I agree about the hidden/invalid/fat partitions. My issue is I help a lot of my friends with computer issues. If I take a backup I want it to be a good backup. Something I can restore to another drive in case that one is failing, etc. They should get the machine back the way they gave it or better. I don't want them to lose the ability to do a restore to factory, etc. I just did someone's machine who's hard drive was shot and I rebuilt using a new drive and copied the restore partition over so at least a manual restore to factory can be performed (imagex utility).

I got my wife's Lenovo T510 in and took a backup with TIH 2011 and version 9 just in case. Still leery of using 2011 for backups.

Thanx again for the input.

Hope this is relevant, I use TIH 2010 and never had a problem with the fat partition. But I usually keep the partition separate making backup of each. When I restore the fat I install the MBR also. I usually run WinPE and DiskPart to setup new drive before restore.
Dell computers have a fat partition at the front of drive with an ID=DE using a partition editor change it to type ID=06 then you should be able to remove it. On most Dell computers the "OS" partition is NOT the active partition, the BCD files are on the active partition which can be the Recovery partition. If you restore just the "OS" partition you need to make it active and boot the machine with a boot cd and get to a command prompt and find the drive letter of the "OS" partition and run: BCDBOOT C:\WINDOWS : using what ever drive letter the "OS" is on. This creates NEW BCD files on the active partition. If you wish to have the DellUtility and the Recovery partitions you will need to run a command script called: setautofailover.cmd : to get the F8 option to Repair your Computer. The setautofailover file was includer in WAIK 2.0 but has been remover from WAIK 3.0. Dell recovery partition is in a FILE format rather than a WinRE.wim . I hope this is useful and helps others. Thanks
Tom

Hi Tom - appreciate the info and it is useful. From now on unless there is an issue with the dell partitions I will leave them alone. I'll back them up, but only restore the actual OS drive. I've even played with partition types on other drives to try to get things working so the concept is not lost on me and I'm glad you've documented it. When all is lost I usually resort to installing an OS then taking the backup of just the user's OS and plopping it onto the newly installed OS. This way boot issues are usually resolved though I think I remember having to do a repair using W7.

Anyway, what I would have preferred is Acronis 2011 taking a backup of the the entire drive which it says it can do, and actually being able to restore it. Heck, I wouldn't mind if it couldn't but at least indicated that it would be an issue before wiping the target drive. I believe I've learned my lesson and I think there is good info here for anyone researching the issue.

Thanx again.

Joseph,
Regarding your wife's Thnkpad, click on my signature below and review item #8-AM. This link is a discussion on a successful disk creation for a ThinkPad. Creating a new replacement disk for the Thinkpad works best when performed in what is sometimes referred to as the "reverse" method. That is, the old disk is removed and a new disk put in its place. Either a restore or clone method can be used but the procedure must be performed from the Rescue CD. Regardless of the type computer, it is important that on first boot following clone or restore, that only the new disk be attached. If two originals are attached, Windows gets confused and everything gets messed up so nothing works. You might be interested in iindex tems in category #3-BB and #3-CC as well.

Support has a special Rescue CD for some Dell machines. Why not contact them and see if what they have for Dell will help you.

Most often. your best chance of success to create a duplicate or (larger/smaller) disk is to
1. Create a backup and checkmark the disk as to what is to be backed up. This checkmark will cause all partitions (both hidden and diagnostic) to be included in the backup. Since it is a disk backup, the Disk Signature will be included plus the MBR/Track0. Backup should be validated via Windows but preferred that validation be confirmed when booted from the Rescue CD.

2. Remove the old disk and attach the new blank disk to the same connectors. If restoring the full backup image, this master source disk does not been to be attached, or if cloning, the original could be attached elsewhere.

3. Usually, if the restore method is used, the procedures that seems to have the best success rate is to restore the entire disk in one pass--that is, in the recovery area, checkmark the disk as to what is to be restored which will be everything in one pass.

When selecting the target disk, also select the "Recovery disk signature" option which is located on the same screen where the target disk is selected. When checkmarking the disk, there is no opportunity to control the partitions sizes but the partitions will be resized proportionately by the program. If necessary, adjusting sizes can occur later--if the default sizes need to be changed. One important requirement here is the backup listed in step 1. The backup needs to be a disk backup to include all partitions.

Obviously, there are modifications possible to the above which can be successful but restoring the disk in one pass seems to have the best success rate when attempting to create a new or identical disk.

4. Restore procedures are performed when booted from the TI Rescue CD. The Rescue CD Add Disk option can be used to delete any existing partitions on the target disk prior to the restore.

5. After completion, shut down and disconnect any other attached disk before booting. On the first boot following the restore or cloning procedures, only the newly copied disk is to be attached--otherwise, Windows will become confused and mess up the boot process.

Thanx for the input. I will check out the link in regards to best practices and discussion for the ThinkPad. She's working off an SSD right now that I set up and I will be using the original 500GB drive as a backup. No sure if it will be with Acronis for the reasons given in this thread.

In regards to the Dell, was helping out and had to get it back so I gave up on the original partitions and simply restored the OS after doing creating a bootable partition, no chance to get a disk.

Most importantly, unless I'm reading your post wrong, the steps I took as described in my original post were to take a whole disk image, then restore it to the same drive. TIH 2011 started running, initialized the target disk then failed on trying to restore one of the two DOS partitions Dell sets up. So it blew away the table then failed trying to restore the image to the same disk it took the image from. As I said, I'm almost okay if it can't handle the FAT 16/32 partitions but at least recognize the situation and warn the user not to try to perform the restore or refuse to do it. I would prefer it would handle it in case I take an image and later on which to restore the image after a drive failure. I used to think taking an image of the entire drive as safest, not so at least in this case, or at least don't try to restore it. So from now on I'll just restore the OS portion...

Hello all,

Thank you very much for your posts and your help.

I will do my best to help you.

According to our internal sources, this Dell recovery issue was fixed in the latest build of the program. I would recommend to download the latest build of the bootable media and try restoring. If you are unsuccessful please contact our Support team with this report collected from the bootable media so that we can help you.

Please let me know if you have additional questions.

Thank you.