Custom Scheme - Create a full version after every [n] differential versions!
Hi Everybody
I am trailling the Home 2012 version.
Last night I created a backup job on a Custom Scheme - To create a full version after every 6 differential versions - the idea being the first run of this backup job would be done on Sunday (which should result in a Full Backup) and subsequent runs would be done on every other day from Monay through to Saturday both inclusive (which should result in the creation of 6 diferential backups). Come next Sunday, my expectation would be that all of these 6 differential backups and the first full backup would be deleted and a new full backup created. Could someone confirm if that is how it is supposed to work.
Further, I did activate the 'Store no more than [n] recent version chains' option with 'n' specified to be 7 for 1 full backup + 6 differential backups. Could someone please confirm if the value that I have is correct or I need to specify some other number?
This job was scheduled to run at Shutdown - but to test it - I ran it manually once. However, when I shutdown my computer, the scheduled backup did not run. I will do a test run again tonight. Could someone however confirm if the backup that would get created tonight - even on a manual or scheduled run - would a full or a differential backup since it has already been run once, even though only for testing?
Other concerns and issues :-
1. Even when 'No Compression' is specified, are the backups created still going to be in the .tib' format?
2. How are the file that are deemed to have changed, that is, files to be included in the differential backup, determined by the software? The reason I ask this is because some of the other backup applications that I have been evaluating seem to create a full backup including all the files even when only 1 file has been changed, that is, even though when the modified date has remained unchanged.
3. Is there a way to implement a 'Confirm Before Backup?' dialog box or a command line option so as to give me the option to cancel the backup job if I choose to? Given that the 'Backup & Recovery' has a 'Command Line' functionality, could someone advise me how can be same be implemented in either the Home or the Backup & Recovery application? I do run a batch file as both Pre and Post commands for the backup job that I created.
Sorry for this long query but these are important things that I would like to know can be realized by the application - I don't mind the Backup & Recovery application if that can meet all of these requirements and expectations of mine.
An early response shall be higly valued. And thanks a zillion of any assistance in advance.
Best regards
Deepak
Deepak,
Don't forget it takes a little while for posts to be seen.
Your setup for chain conversions is correct.
So long as you selected either incremental or differential type then the first image will be a full. If there is already a full under the same task name, you should delete it as otherwise the full will be recognised and a diff/inc will be made.
Other than cloning all files produced by TIH will be tib files.
TIH checks changed disk sectors for working out changed files. Note though, if you explore an incremental or differential it will appear to be a full image. However the file size will prove that this isn't actually so.
There is no command line interface for the Home version.
You can though cancel a task, by right clicking on the sys tray icon and select cancel.
The first or original backup will not be deleted until its replacement has been created. So for a few seconds, you will have the first full and all its chain segment; the 2nd full will be created and afterwards, the first will be deleted so plan your minimum space requirements at least for two fulls plus 6 differentials..
GroverH
Thanks for your response - that is good to know! I will take care of that when I plan the running of my backup jobs.
Colin B
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Other than cloning all files produced by TIH will be tib files.
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I don't intend to do cloning. The .tib format is ok. Does it take longer to generate the backup file in the .tib format rather than just copy the whole directory structure. The reason I ask is because some of the other backup program that I have seen recently take many times longer times to create a .zip (or the other proprietory) file format even though no compression has been specified in the job specifications.
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TIH checks changed disk sectors for working out changed files. Note though, if you explore an incremental or differential it will appear to be a full image. However the file size will prove that this isn't actually so.
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So if the disk is defragmented before the next differential backup is run, will the program deem all files to have changed and make a full backup rather than a differential backup? You say that if I were to explore a differential backup it might to be a full backup - why would that be the case if the size of .tib file is not of the similar order and/or the time it takes to do a differential backup is not significantly different from doing a full backup?
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There is no command line interface for the Home version. You can though cancel a task, by right clicking on the sys tray icon and select cancel.
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Not sure if I like that idea because if I were to cancel the backup at that stage from the system icon tray, the it might already have deleted the full backup and I might end up in a situation that I have cancelled the current differential/full backup and have in the bargain lost the full backup copy as well - I am not so sure that it will delete the full and/or differential copies only after it has created the new backup files. Any further suggestions on that? Or how can I realize the same effect using the batch file? I can request a user input as a part of the in the pre commands but how can I run the backup job conditional upon the user response - any help/ideas here would be great?
Best regards
Deepak
I haven't tried the zip function so don't know how it compares.
Correct a defrag would cause the next inc/diff to be the same size as the original full.
I didn't say that if you were to explore a differential backup it might be a full, what I said was that when you view a differential file it will appear to you as a full image. In other words when you explore or mount a differential it will show you the complete disk, obviously with the changed information from that diff. Viewing a differential won't show you just the files that are changed. I then typed words to the effect that you can be assured that you do have a diff as the file sizes will be different. Also the file name will be slightly different as well. This of course won't happen if there has been a defragging of the drive between full and differential.
Hi Colin B
Firstly, apologies for inadvertently 'fnger pointing' - that was not the intent but I agree it may have come out that way! Sorry once again!
I don't think I still understood what you have been trying to point me towards. Let me see this time if I have understood what have tried to put forward in terms of the content of a differential backup file.
Case1
For the moment, assuming that there has no defragmentation and that all the files are untouched in the data set with the exception of one (1) file which has been modified. In that event, would it be incorrect to expect that the differential backup file (which I presume would be in the .tib format) would contain only that one (1) file that has changed. From your last post, I am reading in my mind that the .tib file created as a result of the differential backup job would contain all the files that existed in the original data set including the one that was modified and the backup file being of similar magnitude in size.
Case2
Now, as a second case, let's assume that the disk has been defragmented since the last full backup and that all the files with the exception of one (1) file are untouched. In that event, do I understand it correctly that the differential backup file (which I presume would be in the .tib format) would contain all the files that existed in the original data set including the one that was modified and the backup file would be of similar magnitude in size.
In both cases, hence, the differential backup file would be of the same size in magnitude, would it? Is that how it works. Could you please confirm if I have correctly understood how the application work and have correctly interpreted your last post?
Further, any suggestions on the 'Confirm Before Backup' stuff, at all?
Best regards
Deepak
Deepak,
If only one file had changed theoretically the diff file would contain just that file. In practice that won't be the case as Windows rewrites files and log files etc change and are placed in different parts of the disk.
So if your full is for arguments sake 15GB in size your diff (assuming no defrag has taken place) will be much less perhaps only 100MB in size.
Now when you open the differential file to look inside it, TIH will stitch the information from the Full and the new information in the Diff so that you actually see a complete upto date image as of the date of the Diff. In other words those files that have been deleted or added that appear in the Diff, will be overlayed in the Full from a VIEWING standpoint.
You are correct in your assumption in case #2.
As far as defragmenting a drive is concerned, the best time to do it is just before a Full image is about to take place.
Hi Colin
I did 3 partial runs of the Custom Scheme - to create a full version after every 6 differential versions - on a test data set of around 2 Gb. As you had indicated the backup file generated in each run of the differential backup only contained the modified files. H owever, the size of the backup file in each instance, as seen in Windows Explorer, was nearly the same size as the full backup - about 2 Gb.
From what have indicated in your earlier post:-
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Now when you open the differential file to look inside it, TIH will stitch the information from the Full and the new information in the Diff so that you actually see a complete upto date image as of the date of the Diff. In other words those files that have been deleted or added that appear in the Diff, will be overlayed in the Full from a VIEWING standpoint.
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does that mean that each of the differential backup file contains all the unmodifed files from the Full backup and also all the files modified since the Full backup? In that event, should we be storing 6 differential backup files? In that event, wouldn't it be better that the existing differential backup file be overwirthat by each subsequent differential backup file as it will anyway contain all the unmodifed files from the Full backup and also all the files modified since the Full backup?
In that is the case, could you please advise how can that be realized?
The reason that I am concerned about this is that the size of my data to be backed up is 150 Gb (and backup drive is 640 Gb space and I am not looking at buying a bigger one) and if I were to to use the above scheme for backup, I would end up with 7 files, each of around 150 Gb and 1 the additional copy for the subsequent full backup being done on day 8 meaning a minimum transitional space requirements of about 1.2+ Gb. This doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Or is this not how it is supposed to work? If not then why do I see the size of the backup file in each instance (in Windows Explorer) as nearly the same size as the full backup - about 2 Gb?
Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Mate, one other thing, is there any way I can make the backup process run conditonally upon user response to the confirmation question in the PreCommand batch file? As had said earlier, I am more than willing to look at the Professional version if I have to but I need the 'Backup Before Confirmation' - the reason being that the server computer of my network will be shutdown after backup each night!
Best regards
Deepak
I am using a very similar setup with a full backup on Sunday's and differentials on each day after that on a weekly basis. My differentials are much smaller than the full backup. On Sunday, with a new full backup all prior files are deleted, and the new full gets copied to an external 1tb USB drive for archive purposes and keep offsite.
You should not be see differentials the same size as your full backup.
does that mean that each of the differential backup file contains all the unmodifed files from the Full backup and also all the files modified since the Full backup?
No. Each differential contains only any changes since the last full backup. When you double click on the differential file though, ATI will show you everything, starting from the last full + the changes stored in the differential. This is just a display thing. To see only what is the differential file, you have to use ATI and the "explore" function.
Or is this not how it is supposed to work? If not then why do I see the size of the backup file in each instance (in Windows Explorer) as nearly the same size as the full backup - about 2 Gb?
If you have defragmention software running between backups, that could explain why your differentials are big. Otherwise, delete the task and create a new task. If this doesn't solve it, uninstall, reboot, install again.
If your backup is a file backup, there is a problem with file selection in ATI 2012, that could explain it.
is there any way I can make the backup process run conditonally upon user response to the confirmation question in the PreCommand batch file?
I don't think so. You would have to kill the truemonitorservice and I doubt this will work since it is the service that is running the task.
Hi Bob C
Thanks for your response. Now that is very encouraging to hear. Mate, can you please show (explain) the exact steps that you have for your system that I can emulate for mine to get what I need to get - which is not much differenct to what you have now?
By the way, you doing this for selected files and folder bakcup or the disk/partition backup. Mine is for files and folder backup.
Best regards
Deepak
Hi Pat L
Thanks for your response. I am glad to hear that the differential file contains only the changed/modified/added/deleted files, so that is good.
There is no deframentation that was working in between backups - that was what worried me when I got the differential file nearly the same size as the full backup file (and for each of the 3 runs) - of course I was checking the content through Windows Explorer and not ATI/Explore Function.
Mine is definitely a 'File and Folder' backup - not disk/partition backup. So does that mean that its not going to work for me? Does the 'Backup & Recovery' application also has the same problem? I don't mind buying that if it works for my requirement.
Mate, I don't understand this 'Kill the truemonitorservice'. Am I already running the task as a service, is it? I thought, ordiarily, it wasn't.
Whilst I am at it, is there any way, even if only available in the 'Backup & Recovery' product, can this backup tasks be run conditonally upon user response to the confirmation question in the PreCommand batch file - because I believe that it has a very extensive command line functionality that it has built in? The reason that this 'Backup Before Confirmation' functionality is actually so important for me is because essentially I want to backup at 'Windows Shutdown' or loosely equivalent 'User LogOff' - I know Acrnonic documentation clealy specifies them to be different events - as my server computer is shutdown every night after backup. So if I choose to turn the server computer off at some other time for whatever reason, I don't always necessarily want the backup to go ahead and in those circumstances I should be able to cancel the backup task before it starts. Now that I have given you the circumstance governing that need, is there a way to realize this on any product of yours? If not, can this functionality be included in any of your products soon?
Best regards
Deepak
Deepak,
can this backup tasks be run conditonally upon user response to the confirmation question in the PreCommand batch file?
Nope.
is there a way to realize this on any product of yours?
Not my product. I am just a user like you.
Acronis Backup & Recovery supports command line interface. So that you can script your way out of your requirements :-)
If you try it, remember to uninstall Acronis True Image Home first.
Pat,
I'm thinking that with the home version you might be able to make a batch file that stops the scheduler service and then after a wait period shutdown the PC. It would be a very messy way of doing things and it would be much better to use ABR11 with a command script to access the Acronis cmd engine.
Colin B/Pat L
Sorry mate, it came out the wrong way - I meant any of the Acronic products.
Between the two of you - it appears that you both seem to know a lot about these products, messy it might be but if you can suggest a way to realizing this, I am more than happy to give it a goo. That would be most highly appreciated.
A couple of things :-
When a backup job (whatever it might entail) is created, it must be stored as a certain file within the application. On that assumption, can I then run that file from within a batch file by simply specifying the program name and the file path of program file that would be storing the backup job commands. I am done something similar in the past - not using batch file but Excel VBA - is to merely open a previously created SAS file (contains SAS program code) executing the commands therein. This is working with TIH because I didn't see the option of creating the custom scheme to create full backup after 'n' differential backups in ABR11 whilst it does have command line functionality.
Just a thought. Any help/pointer in this direction would be a huge help! Thanks.
Best regards
Deepak