ATI2016 now seems to freeze

I believe this is a login/credentials issue.  When you created the new task on the Lenovo, did ATI ask for Login ID & Password?

FtrPilot wrote:

I believe this is a login/credentials issue.  When you created the new task on the Lenovo, did ATI ask for Login ID & Password?

It did when I created the task/profile after deleting the DB and I supplied them. It tested the connection and it was successful. 

It has been my experience just a few days ago with this freeze as you call it.  I waited it out and recieved an error message that the app could not connect to the share.  It took several minutes for the message to appear.  any chance you could run the task again and see if you get the same thing?

Even on 2 local SSD's I will get the calculating "freeze" for a little while every now and then.  Sometimes only a few seconds, sometimes a bit longer.  I usually wait it out and it resumes and chugs along quickly.  

In a few other backup programs that I've used, the "calculating" porition is a bit less transparent to the user so you can see that it's still actually scanning the disk and comparing it to the catalog file (database) to determine what actually needs to be backed up for the next incremental or differential.  Most of the time, I don't even notice this in ATIH though, but when it does happen, it is more apparent when backing up to network shares than loal drives.  I also use only SSD's for my OS drives so I would imagine if both the OS and the backup drive are mechanical the "scanning" portion could take longer as well. 

Just curious, but how many folders deep is the backup and how many total characters in the path name (to include the name of the backup job - all the way to the end of .tib?  The more folders it has to traverse across the network, the more likely you are to see some slowdown. Windows may be chocking if the total path is longer than 260 characters total. 

Enchantech - If I wait long enough (not sure how long, I went to bed) I see the following text in a window (also see the image)

The backup has failed. Please close the application that may currently use the file: \\S4\S4-Q-WDBIk6TB-BU\BU\Acronis\Lenovo-Z580\lncremental\Lenovo-Z580-Boot-Network_full_b1_s1_v1.tib

Bobbo_3C0X1 If I count correctly the filename is 110 characters long including everthing. 

BTW when I backup to the only drive on the laptop (the physical HD has two partitions, one for OS and one for my data) I used the data partition for the test it functions properly and completes the backup.

As  a test I kicked off a BU to the same network drive using Macrium Reflect v5.xx (it is now running and I cannot determine the exact version) and so far it is running with success. It has an overall progress of 4% and statest that it will complete in 1H:27M.

I could be wrong but I think the ATI issue is within ATI and not a windows issue on my system(s).

jgt1942,

our error messages are the same.  I have not had the time to attempt troubleshooting the issue and may not for a few more days.  I will report back here with my findings.  I have a suspicion that this is a credentials/permissions problem.

Enchantech I left Macrium Reflect running last night and just checked the results. It reports that it was successful.

The test task/profile for an incremental BU that creates the BU on my "A" drive also has a schedule and I just noticed that it is now running and reports that it has about 10 minutes remaining. I just checked again an ti appears to have had success.

I was just looking at the logs "C:\ProgramData\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Logs\service_2016-03-18-22-18-02.log" and I do see that it reports it failed (several times). I've attached the log. I'm not sure what to look for in the log.

I've attached the SnapAPIlogs file as are RAR file. I see four that were just created thus these are the ones that should have meaningful information. I looked at the logs but don't see anything that I understand.

OH XXXX! The forum does not suport RAR files, I installed 7-zip and crated a ZIP file.

Thanks for your service log file, this definitely shows that you have a file lock contention issue here, i.e. something is locking your target image file and preventing Acronis from writing to that file.  See the tidied up log file attached.

The key log statements are:

Writing full version to file: Lenovo-Z580....  .tib
The backup has failed. Please close the application that may currently use the file: \\S4\S4-Q-WDBlk6TB-BU\BU\Acronis....
Access to the file or folder is denied.
Access is denied.
Reattempting the operation. Error: The backup has failed. Please close the application....

The above sequence repeats over in the log file until the backup is cancelled by the user.

Do you have any active disk defragment tasks running on the target computer hosting the backup images, any tasks that would lock the image file?

In reality, you should probably invest in a dedicated NAS drive rather than using a Windows 7 desktop (non-server version) for this purpose.

Steve, much thanks for joining in.

It does seem that something is locking the file (this is my wife's laptop) on the desktop however when I run ATI on my laptop to the same drive it works without an issue. This of course begs the question why does it work on my laptop but not my wife's laptop? Also from my wife's laptop I ran Macrium Reflect v5.xx to the same drive and it had no issues. As another test I used Beyond Compare from my wife's laptop to the Q drive on the desktop and it is able to write to the Q drive without issues. This seems to indicate that ATI has some weird issue - am I just confused?

I do run Piriform Defraggler Pro it is setup to run via a schedule at 0200 hours (I just changed it to 0600). Thus I don't think this is locking the file.

On my desktop I just used Lockhunter and it claims that the folder (Q:\BU\Acronis\Lenovo-Z580\Incremental) is locked by the system If I attempt to unlock it, I get the warning "This action will close all the displayed files. You may lose your data if you aren't sure in what you are doing. Are you sure you want to continue?" I click yes and immediately LockHunter shows the file is still locked. Normally 

Using LockHunter I checked the "Q:\BU\Macrium" and it is not locked.

I then created a new folder Q:\BU\test, used LockHunter to see if it is locked, it is not. 

I then cloned the BU task on my wife's laptop and pointed it to Q:\BU\test and then ran it. I can see that it has stopped at the same point the other BU task did. I just got the msg that it has failed (this this is the same as before). I then check with LockHunter and the Q:\BU\test folder is NOT locked but ATI seems to think that it is locked.

I agree that a NAS would be better than my Win10 desktop (not Win7, was this a typo error on your end or did you see something in the log) and the unit I want is too expensive for me at this time. I want one of the 8-drive QNAP units.

Do you have multiple logins with access to different folders?  I have configured my NAS with 3 different accounts for use by ATI.  Each account has different privileges to different folders.  Testing the connection does not test privileges for the backup folder.  It only tests ability to login.

I am going to run a test by inputting the wrong account and seeing if it logs in OK, but is unable to get access to the backup folder.  My expectation is I will get the same error message you get.

If you don't have multiple logins, then I'm stumped.

FtrPilot

Ok, thanks for the further information - the Win 7 reference was my error - senior moment!

Given that this lock issue only seems to occur for your wife's laptop and then only for ATIH running from that laptop, it does suggest to me that the lock on the file may be originating from that side rather than on your desktop 'server' which may be why LockHunter had mixed results.

I wonder if your wife's laptop may have a phantom ATIH task that is locking the same target file?

Acronis provide a Schedule Manager tool that may be of use in this situation, in particular the options it provides for Managing Scheduled tasks with 'get list' and 'task zap' commands that can be used.

One point of note with regard to performing regular defragmentation of drives that you are backing up - this will result in your backup sizes being significantly larger due to the fact that Acronis uses a sector hashing technique to determine what has changed for determining what to include in the incremental or differential backup image - running a defrag can result in an image size as large as the initial full backup size.

I have run the test.  I created a new task.  I set up the task as a user that only has read access to the backup folder.  When I input the login name & password, I tested connection, which passed, then I connected.  I started the backup, which then ran for a couple of minutes.  It then generated the error message...see picture 1.

FtrPilot

One additional thought.  In an earlier response, you stated that you tested the connection.  After testing the connection, did you also hit the "Connect" button?  My belief is that hitting the test button just tests that you have typed in the correct information.  You also must hit the "Connect" button, which tells ATI to use the login name & password for the task.  If you didn't hit the "Connect", then ATI is probably using your wife's login credentials.

My recommendation is to set up a new task, testing the connection and hitting the "connect" button.  Run the backup and see if that fixes the problem.

FtrPilot

FtrPilot,

what does your log file show?  Any similarities with the OP?

Enchantech,

I would call them close to identical.  Mine is attached.

From the OP log file:

"message="The backup has failed. Please close the application that may currently use the file: \\S4\S4-Q-WDBlk6TB-BU\BU\Acronis\Lenovo-Z580\Incremental\Lenovo-Z580 Exclude A_LENOVO-Z580_D2016-03-18_T2218_full_b2_s1_v1.tib"

From my log file:

"message="The backup has failed. Please close the application that may currently use the file: \\SPANGLENAS\OldBackups\Feb 22 2016\Trial Run_full_b1_s1_v1.tib"

From the OP log file:

<error>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</error>

From my log file:

<error>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</error>

FtrPilot

I'm pretty sure we're seeing again a Windows 10 security issue with the sharing permission.  Unfortunately I am on the road today and unable to test.  Start looking at permissions and sharing settings on each machine

I just setup a new USB 3.0 disk attached to my ASUS AC-1900 with a new SMB SAMBA share.  I too was getting the message:

event id="9" level="4" module="485" code="35" time="1458419913" message="The backup has failed. Please close the application that may currently use the file: \\Tm-ac1900\corsair_pc_os_950_nas\CORSAIR_PC_OS_950_NAS_full_b1_s1_v11.tib" line_tag="0x4D3F22948E29F1C2" >

***EDIT***

Same error code as well: 

<error>ASMA5QHC8SmOlCI/TVRoZSBiYWNrdXAgaGFzIGZhaWxlZC4gUGxlYXNlIGNsb3NlIHRoZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbiB0aGF0IG1heSBjdXJyZW50bHkgdXNlIHRoZSBmaWxlOiBcXFRtLWFjMTkwMFxyYmRfY29yc2Fpcl9wY19vc185NTBfbmFzXFJCRF9DT1JTQUlSX1BDX09TXzk1MF9OQVNfZnVsbF9iMV9zMV92MTEudGliACRtb2R1bGUATgAAAAAAAAAAABQABADsaj9qZ6uOHUFjY2VzcyB0byB0aGUgZmlsZSBvciBmb2xkZXIgaXMgZGVuaWVkLgBQYXRoAFdcXFRtLWFjMTkwMFxyYmRfY29yc2Fpcl9wY19vc185NTBfbmFzXFJCRF9DT1JTQUlSX1BDX09TXzk1MF9OQVNfZnVsbF9iMV9zMV92MS50aWIAJG1vZHVsZQBOAAAAAAAAAAAAFAAEALb5ITt7dF/zQWNjZXNzIHRvIHRoZSBmaWxlIG9yIGZvbGRlciBpcyBkZW5pZWQuAGZ1bmN0aW9uAEFEZWxldGVGaWxlVwBwYXRoAFdcXD9cVU5DXFRtLWFjMTkwMFxyYmRfY29yc2Fpcl9wY19vc185NTBfbmFzXFJCRF9DT1JTQUlSX1BDX09TXzk1MF9OQVNfZnVsbF9iMV9zMV92MTEudGliACRtb2R1bGUATgAAAAAAAAAAAPD/AAD0uO1kvf0ovUFjY2VzcyBpcyBkZW5pZWQAY29kZQBOBQAHgAAAAAAkbW9kdWxlAE4AAAAAAAAAAAA=</error>

***/EDIT***

The backup did not run until I manually connected to the share from within Windows one time.  MyPC >>>> expand Network >>>> Locate the SMB share device and and double clicked on it to open the share(s).  

At that time, I was prompted to enter credentials from within Windows (same ones I supplied in Acronis) - I also selected the box to remember credentials.  As expected, the share connected in Windows.  I went back into Acronis and clicked on the button to "test" again and it was successful.  I then clicked on "connect" and it immediately started backing up. 

I did this for two different machines on two different shares on this device with positive results.

Thanks Bobbo, this is indicative of password authentication required for Networks in Windows 10 Network and Sharing Center.

FtrPilot wrote:

Do you have multiple logins with access to different folders?  I have configured my NAS with 3 different accounts for use by ATI.  Each account has different privileges to different folders.  Testing the connection does not test privileges for the backup folder.  It only tests ability to login.

I am going to run a test by inputting the wrong account and seeing if it logs in OK, but is unable to get access to the backup folder.  My expectation is I will get the same error message you get.

If you don't have multiple logins, then I'm stumped.

FtrPilot

All systrems have the same login. Also when I setup permissions I established full control for everyone.

It's official...I'm stumped.

Although, I am sure an 8-drive QNAP unit would fix the problem.

FtrPilot

Enchantech wrote:

Thanks Bobbo, this is indicative of password authentication required for Networks in Windows 10 Network and Sharing Center.

Yes, most definitely.  I was just suprised that I had to authenticate in Windows first before Acronis could connect since I had supplied the same credentials directly in Acronis first.  It was only after I authenticated via Windows File Explorer that Acronis then could backup to the SMB share.  Might be something that is needed for others with their setup in order to get Acronis to use the supplied credentials as well.  

Yes it is and others will have to do the same thing.   I have written about this situation with network share security and Windows 10 before here on the Forum.   This security thing got more complex with the last 2 cumulative updates.  

For jgt1942
Go to Network and Sharing Center, click Advanced sharing option, expand the Network field and uncheck Password Authentication required.

Enchantech wrote:

Yes it is and others will have to do the same thing.   I have written about this situation with network share security and Windows 10 before here on the Forum.   This security thing got more complex with the last 2 cumulative updates.  

As others I was suprised that I had to supply the id and PW to access the network disk in ATI, especially because I had already mapped the drive.

[quote=Enchantech

For jgt1942
Go to Network and Sharing Center, click Advanced sharing option, expand the Network field and uncheck Password Authentication required.

[/quote]

Possibly I've gone down the wrong path for your recommended setting. (I did this on my desktop where the shared drive is for my network).

1. I opened Network and Sharing Center
2. On the left side I clicked "Change advanced sharing settings"
3. I expanded All Networks
4. I don't see Password Authentication required, see the attached image of what I see at this time.

My apologies, I had the terminology wrong.  Was trying to recall from memory while posting from a smart phone.  It is in fact the last entry in the list, Passowrd sharing turned off which in your screenshot is correct.  You would need to set that the same on your other machines as well I think.  So I take it you got it to work?  If not you might have something else a bit off with permissions somewhere.

From what I can tell this far is that Microsoft is recommending that network sharing be done by setting Group Policy.  I do not think that transition is fully in effect yet but looks to me like it is headed that way.  Time will tell.

Enchantech wrote:

I'm pretty sure we're seeing again a Windows 10 security issue with the sharing permission.  Unfortunately I am on the road today and unable to test.  Start looking at permissions and sharing settings on each machine

I'm not ruling out anything at this time. Let me give you a bit more info that possibly may throw more light on the issue.

1. Originally the desktop had Win8.1 installed and all of the drives were shared out with full permissions and all of my systems could access and use the drives.
2. I attempted to upgrade to Win10 but I encountered numerous issues that I could not resolve.
3. I then decided to perform a clean install of Win10 on the desktop (this was just before Christmas).
4. After the clean install I again shared out most of the drives (same drive letters and same drive labels. See the images 2016 0319 Drive R  Properties Sharing and 2016 0319 Drive R  Properties Sharing Permissons
5. On my laptops I remapped the drives BUT here I encountered some weird issues. Example on my wife's laptop I can access and use the "T" drive whereas on my laptop I get a Network Error whe I attempt to access the T drive (see image 2016 0319 Drive T W700 Network Error). I have spent several hours tring to find a solution for this issue and so far no success. 
6. On my wife's laptop ATI cannot backup to the shared Q drive whereas my laptop ATI can.
7. All of my systems are running Win10 x64 with whatever updates MS is pushing out.
8. After the Win10 clean install on my desktop I installed 2016 ATI at this time two of the laptops had ATI2014 installed and backing up to the shared Q drive on my desktop.
9. I then upgraded the laptops to ATI2016, on my laptop I installed a USB2 enclosure with a 3TB drive and setup ATI2016 to use it as the backup. This worked without issue, I also then tested backing up to the Q drive on the desktop and this also worked. I then upgraded ATI on my wife's laptop to ATI2016 and encountered the current issue to backing up to the Q drive on my desktop.
10. On my wife's laptop ATI2016 will backup the "C" partition to the "A" partition on the laptop. This is just a test, obviously I really don't want to backup the C partition to the A partition on the same physical drive.

Sorry for the long story, I think this is all the details but if you have a question, please let me know.

My long term plan is to perform a Win10 clean install on all three of my laptops, currently I have not been working with the 3rd laptop as I have too many issues with my laptop and my wife's laptop.

Enchantech wrote:

My apologies, I had the terminology wrong.  Was trying to recall from memory while posting from a smart phone.  It is in fact the last entry in the list, Passowrd sharing turned off which in your screenshot is correct.  You would need to set that the same on your other machines as well I think.  So I take it you got it to work?  If not you might have something else a bit off with permissions somewhere.

From what I can tell this far is that Microsoft is recommending that network sharing be done by setting Group Policy.  I do not think that transition is fully in effect yet but looks to me like it is headed that way.  Time will tell.

No problem with the terminology, I just wanted to ensure I was in-sync with you. Sometimes a simple thing will send me spinning. I'm currently just using standard simple networking. I don't have any Group Policy or HomeGroup (never set it up).

FtrPilot wrote:

One additional thought.  In an earlier response, you stated that you tested the connection.  After testing the connection, did you also hit the "Connect" button?  My belief is that hitting the test button just tests that you have typed in the correct information.  You also must hit the "Connect" button, which tells ATI to use the login name & password for the task.  If you didn't hit the "Connect", then ATI is probably using your wife's login credentials.

My recommendation is to set up a new task, testing the connection and hitting the "connect" button.  Run the backup and see if that fixes the problem.

FtrPilot

I'm trying to catch up on all the suggestions. I do recall that I hit the TEST button but cannot state for sure that I hit the connect button. All of my systems have the same logon credentials. This made it easier for my simple mind. :) 

I just created a new incremental task on my wife's laptop to BU to the Q drive on my desktop. I was NOT prompted for anything this time and when I attempted to run the task it failed as it has been all along. 

In an attempt to ensure I did not make a mistake, I created another TEST task and attempted to run it. Same results, I was not prompted and trying to run failed.

I'm going to use Revo to uninstall, I think there is a Acronis clean utility that I should also use. I'll try to find this before I start down this path. 

The decision to uninstall ATI2016 has returned me to computer hell. I used Revo Uninstaller Pro to uninstall ATI2016 (it also found parts of ATI2014) and then ran the Acronis True Image Cleanup Utility_46_en-US. I think I correctly followed the directions but when I attempted to reboot the PC it would not. Finally I got to the point where I perform a system restore using a restore point. I then attempted to reinstall ATI2016 but I was presented with a Repair or Uninstall option. I picked the repair and this seemed to be successful, the ATI2016 window opened.

I then attempted to uninstall but there was no entry for ATI2016 (there was nothing for Acronis) in Revo or the Control Panel Programs and features.

Again I ran the ATI installer (2016 6027), again I see the Repair/Uninstall. I picked uninstall and it seemed to be successful. I rebooted and again ran the installer and again I get the Repair/Uninstall options.

In Revo I then attempted a Force Uninstall (I supplied TrueImage.exe as the program name and C:\Program Files (x86)\Acronis\TrueImageHome as the folder). I let Revo do whatever it wanted and then rebooted the system.

After the system rebooted I ran a search for Acronis on the C drive using the search tool Everything and I'm shocked to see the stuff left behind, mainly because I expected to see no Acronis items (ATI was the only app from Acronis installed on this system). I had to use Unlocker to delete the folders and this also deleted most of the files. I then rebooted the system.

Again I searched for Acronis and using Locker I was able to delete the remaining items. The delete process was a royal pain and the entire delete process took almost an hour.

At this point it is almost 0300 hours and I need to get some sleep. I'll continue tomorrow. 

Wow!  You certainly have been through computer &#%!  Sounds like you were successful at removing the remnants of the previous True Image installs and the most current 2016 as well.  That should make a huge difference going forward.  When you reinstall 2016 do so as admin and disable any anti-virus app you have installed.  This will avoid any potential probems with the next installation.

Windows 10 version 10586 - 1511 released in the same timeframe as your upgrades brought many issues to users with respect to networking which have been reported around the net.  It would be safe to say that that release effectively broke networking.  The current version of Windows 10 is Version 1511 OS build 10586.164.  You can check this on your machines by using the Windows key + R and typing winver  and hit Enter in the run box that appears.  If yours shows something else then you are missing some updates.  You may find this to be the case as Windows update has had issue with becoming broken as well so scheduled updates may not have found their way to your machines.

Let us know of your progress.

Steve Smith wrote:

Ok, thanks for the further information - the Win 7 reference was my error - senior moment!

One point of note with regard to performing regular defragmentation of drives that you are backing up - this will result in your backup sizes being significantly larger due to the fact that Acronis uses a sector hashing technique to determine what has changed for determining what to include in the incremental or differential backup image - running a defrag can result in an image size as large as the initial full backup size.

No problem on the senior moment, I have a lot of these.

Regarding the defrag. I don't defrag my boot drive which is a SSD. Defraggler has a level option that I can set before it will defrag a HD. I set it at 10% for each HD thus if the defrag level is below 10% the drive is not defraged.

Enchantech wrote:

Wow!  You certainly have been through computer &#%!  Sounds like you were successful at removing the remnants of the previous True Image installs and the most current 2016 as well.  That should make a huge difference going forward.  When you reinstall 2016 do so as admin and disable any anti-virus app you have installed.  This will avoid any potential probems with the next installation.

Windows 10 version 10586 - 1511 released in the same timeframe as your upgrades brought many issues to users with respect to networking which have been reported around the net.  It would be safe to say that that release effectively broke networking.  The current version of Windows 10 is Version 1511 OS build 10586.164.  You can check this on your machines by using the Windows key + R and typing winver  and hit Enter in the run box that appears.  If yours shows something else then you are missing some updates.  You may find this to be the case as Windows update has had issue with becoming broken as well so scheduled updates may not have found their way to your machines.

Let us know of your progress.

OH CRAP!!! I have the Windows 10 version 10586 - 1511 release. DARN (well I really have a lot of other things to say). I'm now creating a new ISO file and after it is created I'll try the update option on my desktop. Hopefully I don't have to start all over.

If you have not started yet you might have a look at the link below.  I done this a few times on a couple of machines I have to get things up to par and it works admirably!

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16397-repair-install-windows-10-plac…

Enchantech wrote:

If you have not started yet you might have a look at the link below.  I done this a few times on a couple of machines I have to get things up to par and it works admirably!

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16397-repair-install-windows-10-plac…

Much thanks for the link, I had not seen it although I do frequent the forum. I'll also try this procedure on my three laptops just to ensure all are at the newer or at least the same level. 

I started creating a new Win10 ISO file a couple of hours ago and currently the process is at 27%. I checked my Internet download speed and it looks good thus I assume something is slow on the MS server. Oh well I can wait a few more hours.

Question - once I create the ISO file how can I determine the version and build? I want to double check and ensure I've got the newer version before I start.

Enchantech I have a couple of questions related to windows.

1. How can I determine the latest Win10 release that MS has released. I looked at the MS Win10 download page and did not see anything that identified what version and build was available.
2. Is it correct to say that if I do not have the latest Win10 version and build installed I must ensure I have the latest ISO file from MS and perform an inplace update using the link you suggestedd (http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/16397-repair-install-windows-10-plac…)? 

On my desktop currently does not have the latest version and build installed (which I'm attempting to correct) but reports that I have the latest updates when I click Start > Settings > Update & Security >  Windows Update > Check for updates

I think I just answered one of my questions, e.g. How can I determine the latest Win10 release that MS has released? 

If I go to http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/update-history-windows-10 it shows that Mar 8, 2016 10586.164 was released. Looks like MS often released a new version/build

I would think that the machine that shows updated to latest version in Windows update yet winver shows otherwise is suspected as having the update feature of Windows not working.   I have a machine myself where this exact scenario occurred.   I was able to fix that using another method but because you are having other issues a refreshing of Windows seems most appropriate.

Once you get the iso download right click on it and choose extract all. This will extract the contents of the iso and you will find an setup.exe file.  You can right click on it and choose run as administrator to run the upgrade.   During that process you will have the option to download updates selected by default.  This update will insure you have the latest version.   Once the upgrade finishes run the Windows update again to grab the latest patches.

As for my question, e.g. once I create the ISO file how can I determine the version and build?

Look at http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/29588-iso-see-what-language-edition-…

I tried this on the win10 download I created on a USB stick a few days ago (not sure just when) but I did not get the results I expected or I just don't understand. Following is what I see after issuing the following CMD (admin window) 

NOTE: In the following command the D that follows WinFile: is the drive letter of the USB stick or the mounted ISO file. 

dism /Get-WimInfo /WimFile:D:\sources\install.esd /index:1

I get the following:

C:\WINDOWS\system32>dism /Get-WimInfo /WimFile:d:\sources\install.esd /index:1

Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool
Version: 10.0.10586.0

Details for image : d:\sources\install.esd

Index : 1
Name : Windows 10 Pro
Description : Windows 10 Pro
Size : 13,880,679,832 bytes
WIM Bootable : No
Architecture : x64
Hal : acpiapic
Version : 10.0.10240
ServicePack Build : 16384
ServicePack Level : 0
Edition : Professional
Installation : Client
ProductType : WinNT
ProductSuite : Terminal Server
System Root : WINDOWS
Directories : 19767
Files : 101280
Created : 9/9/2015 - 23:35:28
Modified : 3/16/2016 - 21:49:03
Languages :
        en-US (Default)

The operation completed successfully.

**************************************************

Good question for which I do not have an answer and, quite frankly I'm not sure anyone does!  What I do see in what you posted are two different versions, 10586 and 10240.  Where did you download this ISO from?

I will say that the ISO linked to in the article I provided I am pretty sure is different than what you have.  In my experience with it was the installer downloaded and installed updates which I presume were the latest build.  After the upgrade completed I then ran Windows update and it downloaded and installed only the latest cumlative security update.

I did not run the procedure you outlined here so cannot comment on that.

I will say though that the 10240 version and build 16384 were pre 1511 build 10586 so something is a bit strange there.

Earlier tonight I discovered that with the ISO file and the USB file (assuming you use the MS option to create a bootable Win10 install USB stick) with the CMD window command

C:\WINDOWS\system32>dism /Get-WimInfo /WimFile:d:\sources\install.esd /index:1

You really CANNOT determine the exact build or at least I could not. 

In the image "2016_0320_win10_usb_ms_version" I see version 10.0.10240 and there is a service pack of 16384. To ceate the USB I used the MS MediaCreationTool and part of the process is for it to download the file from MS. however the Win10 install loaded on the USB stick was NOT the latest version. I don't know why but I do know it too a LONG time, about 6 hours.

The image 2016_0320_win10_iso_ms_version is the info for the ISO file. It gives part of the info, e.g. 10.0.10586 but not the other three characters I need, e.g. .164. The full version number is 10586.164.

Thus so far I really don't know how to verify the version downloaded from the MS site and based on my limited experience I got some very old Win10 install when I created the USB using the MS tool.

I did download the ISO file (this also took a long time but not as long) and used the Rufus app (see https://rufus.akeo.ie/https://rufus.akeo.ie/) to create the USB stick Win10 install. However I did not check the version using the dism command but plan to do so. 

The USB stick is plugged into my wife's laptop. I started to use it to upgrade the Win10 install on her laptop but the process was super slow. Because the USB stick is a 16 GB I also put the ISO file on it. I then copied the ISO file to her laptop, used UltraISO to mount it and then used the mounted ISO file to perform the upgrade. This part of the process was MUCH faster. However for the last 1-2 hours after fininshing the upgrade windows has been checking for updates. This part of the process has been super slow.

Tis late I'm going to bed.

Well, I ran the discovery procedure on my ISO so you can have a look.  A bit different they are.   I will say that your Version 10240 was I believe the original release of Win 10.  Version 10586 came later and has had a number of different builds to date.

I will say that after using this same ISO to perform in place upgades on 2 different machines the end results are the latest version\build.  See the Winver attachment.  Note this was performed on a Win 10 PRO.

I used the same ISO to in place upgrade a Win 10 HOME machine and the result was the latest version\build again with the only change being the resulting upgrade is a Win 10 HOME installation.

So at the end of the day running an in place upgrade appears to me to bring you to the latest version\build.

Enchantech wrote:

Well, I ran the discovery procedure on my ISO so you can have a look.  A bit different they are.   I will say that your Version 10240 was I believe the original release of Win 10.  Version 10586 came later and has had a number of different builds to date.

I will say that after using this same ISO to perform in place upgades on 2 different machines the end results are the latest version\build.  See the Winver attachment.  Note this was performed on a Win 10 PRO.

I used the same ISO to in place upgrade a Win 10 HOME machine and the result was the latest version\build again with the only change being the resulting upgrade is a Win 10 HOME installation.

So at the end of the day running an in place upgrade appears to me to bring you to the latest version\build.

To my knowledge (which may not be worth a lot) when I used the MS media tool it downloaded the Win10 for the USB from the MS site. However, I did not try again. If time permits and I can resolve my current issue then I may try again.

Good news - I just checked my wife's laptop WinVer and I now have the latest on the system (10586.164)

Bad news - I installed ATI2016, created a task/profile to create incremental BUs to my Q drive on my desktop and it failed. As another test using Xplorer2 (my filemanager) I did access ALL of the shared HDs on the desktop, created a folder and deleted on all HDs.

Later today I'll try to update my desktop to Win10 10586.164 and see if this resolves the ATI issue.

I just realized that something was left behind after my uninstall of ATI2016 and the cleanup I went through. 

I just attempted to activate my reinstall and when I click on account the window states "Activated successfully". I was not prompted for my SN. 

After I upgrade my desktop to the latest Win10 I will test the ATI2016 backup to the Q drive on the desktop. If it still fails I'll connect a USB enclosuer to my wife's system and see if I can BU to it. If I can I may just live with this as a workaround. I've spent at least 40 hours total trying to resolve this issue. Another possibility is to use Macrium Reflect since it seems to work without issues.

Are you using the Cloud service - if you log into the Cloud account, you do not need to enter the serial #, it should get it from your account automatically.

FYI on the Win 10 installers...

I downloaded the latest .iso yesterday.  Size is larger than that of the one shown in Enchantech's screenshot.  Created date is listed as 2/13/2016.  Still doesn't show the exact version other than the base build of 10.0.10586, but date may be the key for having the latest available. 

Details for image : F:\x64\sources\install.esd

Index : 1
Name : Windows 10 Pro
Description : Windows 10 Pro
Size : 14,492,502,337 bytes
WIM Bootable : No
Architecture : x64
Hal : acpiapic
Version : 10.0.10586
ServicePack Build : 0
ServicePack Level : 0
Edition : Professional
Installation : Client
ProductType : WinNT
ProductSuite : Terminal Server
System Root : WINDOWS
Directories : 20328
Files : 103526
Created : 2/13/2016 - 7:01:00 AM
Modified : 3/20/2016 - 9:31:06 PM
Languages :

Bobbo - I'm NOT using the cloud service nor do I plan to do so. With four systems I have too much to backup and if I exceed my quota my ISP really sticks it to me wiht a huge bill. Also the upload speed is very slow.

Progress UPDATE 

I updated all four of my systems to 10586.164 with the expectation that it would possibly resolve my issue, well it did NOT and things have gotten worse.

• Two of my laptops cannot access any drive on my desktop. I've sent several hours trying to resolve this today and have not found a solution. I get "You do not have perissons to access (drive). Contact your network administrator to request access. I'm using simple networking, on the desktop all drives have been shared with full permisions and in the security I selected that no PW is required.
• My wife's games (microsoft games) no longer work on her laptop (I discovered that they no longer work on any of the systems). This was resolved by reinstalling, I used Win7GamesForWin10-Setup.exe.
• My Logitech G930 headset no longer worked. I resolved this by finding code that would work, it is not the latest release of code. I used LGS_8.74.80_x64_Logitech.exe. However I do not have the 7.1 sound, I only have stereo. 
• No longer can I create system restore points. Also it seems that all my restore points were deleted. I'm attempting to resolve this now.

I just uninstalled ATI2016 on my wife's laptop, rebooted, looked and removed leftovers, rebooted and now I'm reinstalling. BTW her laptop has no problem accessing any of the shared drives on my desktop.

OPS again I get Repair or Uninstall as the options. So much for the previous uninstall. I picked uninstall, it looks like it is performing the uninstall and reports that it was uninstalled. I'm rebooting the system. Tried the install again, this time only install is the option, completed the install, starting to run, this time I get prompted for the SN or start trial, I entered my SN, setup incremental BU, kicked off to run, I can see that it is NOT going to work.

I'm quit for the night, I need to sleep.

jgt1942,

I was over the the Windows 10 Forum site and ran across your postings there which centered around some of the same issues you posted here.  I will comment that your vision of a simple network that you contend you have is not so simple at all.  It is a good sign that your wife's laptop can now access all the drives on your desktop, I take it that is some progress.  How about your other 2 laptops, can they do so as well?  It sounds like you cannot.  Have you set drive properties security settings to allow Everyone full access? 

I am not sure if you will have success with getting True Image to work as you intent with this setup.  I think you might run into other errors such as "Cannot access the file XXXXXXXX, close the application that is accessing the file or try agian" or something to that effect.  The reason I say this is because of your use of guest accounts to access everything.  Windows 10 security is such that guest accounts are to the point of not being useable.

Do you have any of your machines setup with Microsoft Account logons?  Are you running all your laptops as an admin. when trying to access the drives on your desktop?  If you have a mix of local accounts and Microsoft accounts on your machines you will find that this will not work.  You will have all kinds of issues getting the two to work together.  So you must choose either to use strictly Microsoft accounts or local accounts.  If you are not logged in as admin on your devices you are going to have issue with access even though you have everyone granted permissions because of the way in which Windows 10 security works.  

Windows 10 security at this point is designed to restrict access in such a way as to require athenticated users or things will simply not work as intended.  If you can get guest access to work I will be very surprized.

Enchantech Yes, drive properties on the desktop have been setup so everyone can access the drives. As I understand I have done this correctly.

I don't think I'm using guest accounts but I could be wrong. How can I verify? When I sing-in on any of my systems I have admin priv.

I'm sure you have heard about teaching old dogs new tricks. Well this will be the case for me and the new network security. I need the book for OLD dummies. :) I'd like to do it correctly but obviously at this time I may be out in left field just wandering around (lost).

I think I'm signing in with my MS account on my laptop (aka W700) but I'm not sure about the other systems. How do I verify?

Sorry for the dumb user questions.

What I want to setup on my home network is full access to anybody that is attached to my network (wired or wireless). I'm not worried about somebody driving down the street and wirelessly accessing my network. I think I have that well protected. But if somebody attaches to my wireless network (I will have to give them the key) or they  plug into the Ethernet then I want them to have full access to any of my shared drives without jumping through hoops. Entering the wireless password and mapping the drive is all that I want them to do. I'm totally open for suggestions and guidance. 

Currently my main issues are:

1. ATI2016 not backing up my wife's laptop. As a workaround I can connect a laptop USB drive to her system and backup. 
2. Resolve the access to my desktop drives on my two laptops
3. Resolve the Outlook calendar syncing issue on my wife's laptop (my desktop, my W700 laptop and my wife's Outlook calendars should be syncing in real-time). I don't know when this broke but yesterday I noticed it was not working.

Ref

1. Resolve the Outlook calendar syncing issue on my wife's laptop (my desktop, my W700 laptop and my wife's Outlook calendars should be syncing in real-time). I don't know when this broke but yesterday I noticed it was not working.

OK some dummy forgot to reinstall the code on my desktop. Do I have any volunteers that would like to take that load off my shoulders?

Now working as expected!

Ref 

1. ATI2016 not backing up my wife's laptop. As a workaround I can connect a laptop USB drive to her system and backup. 

 Initially I connected a 500GB laptop drive to her system and ran a BU and realized that I would not be able to have but a few versions so I looked through my hardware and found a USB enclosure for a desktop and I install a 3TB drive in it. I'm now moving the BU file from the 500GB to the 3TB drive. I was avoiding the 3TB drive solution just because running power to it was a pain.
 
Thus I have a temp solution in place until I can resolve the ATI2016 issue backing up to my desktop shared drive. Or go with the Macrium Reflect v5.xx solution. I'm reluctant to go this route just because it is another application I need to run/learn/manage, however I could run it on all of my systems and drop ATI.

To determine your login account status in Windows 10 open Control Panel, click on Usser Accounts, then click User Accounts again.  Your account will be displayed showing if Admin and if Local or Microsoft.

In Windows Network and Sharing Center, does your network show as Private of Public?  It should show as Private.  if you click on Advanced sharing settings on the left side of screen you will see first, settings for your Private Network.  You will see 3 settings.  1. Network Discovery, Turn on network discovery should be enabled for a Private Network so that connected devices can discover each other on the network.  2. File and Printer sharing, Should be on so that files can be shared on a Private network. 3. Homegroup Connections, If you are using the Homegroup network option you should have Allow Windows to manage homegroup connections.  If your network is a Private network you might want to consider enabling the Homegroup feature on your computers.  Given your objective and your current situation that just might be the best solution for you.  If you enable Homegroup on all your machines and all machines have joined the Homegroup then access and sharing are much simpler. 

In past versions of Windows it was common for the Network type to be set as Workgroup.  Workgroups came about for networks where 1 or more Servers where connected and established the ground work for networking.  Windows brought the Homegroup features into the picture as a way of managing a small home network without servers involved to allow for sharing across the small home network.  If you enable Homegroup on your machines and join those machines to the created Homegroup your sharing would be much simpler to manage and fit your needs much better.  I believe that your current Everyone settings on your drive settings would work if Homegroup were established on your network. 

If you choose to go the Homegroup route create the Homegroup from your Desktop machine first and then Join that homegroup on the rest of your computers.  Your desktop then becomes the administrator of the homegroup.  When creating the homegroup a homegroup password is created in the process for use by other members of the homegroup to gain access.  With the 3rd option above set as I described, Windows handles access authentication based on the Homegroup members joined to the homegroup. 

As for others whom connect to your network,  These would be Guest or Public users. which brings us to the second part of the list of the Advanced sharing options in the Network and Sharing Center.  There are two selections here.  They are Network Discovery, obviously this should be turned on and File and Printer sharing, this should be turned on as well.  These 2 settings will allow guest/public users to access your Homegroup.

The third part of the list of Advanced sharing options is for All Networks and sets the parameters for both Private and Public/Guest networks.  You have 4 choices here.  First is Public folder sharing.  Obviously you want to turn this on so that sharing of the Public folders can work.  Second you have Media Streaming which you can configure which media folders are allowed for media sharing.  Third is File Sharing Connections which is where you would set Encrytion levels for networks which should be turned on for 128 bit encryption.  Forth is Password Protected Sharing which you should select as turned off so as to allow access to those whom do not have an account on the network.

The good news is that in creating a Homegroup the above settings in the Network and Sharing Center should be configured for you.  I am attaching a link to a Homegroup for Dummies article that describes how to create and join a Homegroup.  If you do not want to go this route and stick with a Workgroup arrangement at the bottom of the linked page are links to doing that.  Do some reading, hopefully you can discover a network method that works for you.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-set-up-a-homegroup-network…