The clone tool is designed to create an exact duplicate of an existing drive.  All data is transfered from one disk to another and you are right the result cannot be incrementally updated. 

A backup image file is as you think, an image created which can be updated incrementally or differentially as preferred by the user.  You should consult the documentation to understand the differrences in the two.

Keep in mind the recommended restoration of a backup image and/or the clone of a drive should be done using the user created recovery media which you can make using the Media Builder tool found in the Tools section of the app (Tools icon).

Ditto to Enchantec's reply.  In order to do a clone and a backup, you would need two different destination disks.  

1 x new disk just for the clone which would be the exact copy of the source disk as was taken at that moment in time.  Any new clones to that same disk would overwrite the existing content and make a new exact copy at that particular time.  

1 x new disk for backups of the original disk (can't be the same as the clone disk)

And yes, even though clone operation is "allowed" to start in Windows, don't do it!  You will save yourself trouble by using your offline bootable recovery media for the purpose of initiating a clone process.  Your offline bootable recovery media is your best friend and you need to know how to use it anyway.  If you can't boot Windows for some reason, and you don't have a workign clone, you bootable media is what will allow you to restore your backup images.  

I also take the occasional offline backup as well (so that nothign in Windows.. applicaitons, antivirus, possible malware, etc can interfere... just in case).

Thank you Enchantech,

I was aware about the general differences between the clone and backup,  my question was precise:  

With the backup, do I still get an exact copy of my C: drive with all my programs up and running and with the settings I had when I backed up?

For example, I'm using CAD with a bunch of personalized settings, I have windows 10 with a bunch of personalized settings and shortcuts... so, with the backup, will I get exactly everything as it was or would I have to re install softwares / updates / shortcuts etc... ?

Because I understand that the clone does exactly this, but I'm not sure about the backup.... 

Also, is there an interaction between a cloned C: and a backup C: ?

With the backup, do I still get an exact copy of my C: drive with all my programs up and running and with the settings I had when I backed up?

Yes - the clone takes an exact copy of the drive as it is (as mentioned above before).  It is an exact copy

A Backup will do the same thing.  It takes a snapshot of the system using Microsoft VSS at that exact moment in time.  However, make sure to uncheck the default exclusions in the backup settings or you may miss a few things in a backup.  By default, there are no exclusions in the clone process, but you can manually add them... I would not though since the idea is to get an exact copy.

Also, is there an interaction between a cloned C: and a backup C: ?

No.  They are two completely diffierent drives, but exactly the same.  You should never have both drives connected at the same time when you boot one into Windows since they are exactly the same (including the hardware ID).  If you try to boot Windows with both drives attached, even if one is attached via USB, you may have problems booting.  You shoud, however, test yoru clone by removing the original, inserting the clone in the same SATA connector and booting to it. If successful, remove the clone, replace with the original, boot to the original and shelve your clone for when it's time to revert to it or create an updated clone.

Bobbo's comments are spot on.  I use both functions at times depending on the need and what it is exactly that I am wanting to do.  The need dictates the function in other words. 

In general I would use the clone tool when my need is to upgrade from a HDD to an SSD for example or if I need to duplicate a data drive for use in a different machine. 

I regularly create backup images for archive storage that can/are used for recovery purposes when the need arrises. 

Both have thier place, both work albeit in slightly different fashions.   

Hi

Trying to get set up properly & started a back up to the cloud of Entire PC.  The time it will take at the moment is 14 days & the amount of upload is more than my monthly limit.  I also live in a regional area with slow adsl.  I want to cancel the back up to the cloud but can only pause.  It appears to keep starting up as it has now backed up 993mb even though I've paused it several times today.

How do I cancel the cloud back up?

I then set up an Entire PC backup to my external harddrive with incremental changes & opted for daily backups late at night.  Clicked on start backup & it has been "Queued" all day.  Will it start a the designated time - 11.30pm tonight?

My gmail is haveing problems connecting & all other internet usage today has been terrible since I started the cloud backup - another reason to shut it down as soon as possible!

regards

Terri

Terri, please see KB document: 56529: Acronis True Image Cloud: Family Dashboard and try logging in to the Family Dashboard and cancelling or deleting the Cloud backup from there for your system.

If you still have problems at that point, then I would recommend contacting Acronis Support directly as per the link below:

18623: How to get Technical Support: Tips, Tricks and Useful Information

While you have the Cloud backup active and trying to connect all other backup tasks will get 'queued' behind it.

Snce you are new to True Image and have setup tasks that my not be desired and wish to start fresh you might consider using the Acronis Schedule Manager to delete the tasks you have created.  The link below provides details and a link to download the utility.

https://kb.acronis.com/SchedulerManager

Thank you.

Besides the differences between clone and backup, which I understood them, i'm still trying to understand this:

do you get back exactly all your working programs with the latest settings and updates both with the clone and with the disk backup?

i.e. say that I have autocad with some extensions installed, would i get this back exactly as it was both on a clone and on the backup?

would i get my desktop with all my icons and shortcuts back exactly as it was both on a clone and on the backup?

if this is the case, then i see no need in having a clone of my C: drive within my laptop, as I already have a backup of my entire PC in an external drive, which is updated at today, while the clone is already a week old....

am i right? 

do you get back exactly all your working programs with the latest settings and updates both with the clone and with the disk backup?

Yes.

You get an EXACT image of the data at the moment the image is taken in either scenario.  

I don't clone.  I take a full disk backup and restore the image.  Please check the "exclusions" tab though and remove all of them if you want thins to be exact.  Alternatively, take an occassional offline image and it will get everythign by default too - I'd recommend doing this anwyay to have a additional backups, and a few completely outside of Windows (just in case - you never know if something in your OS, applications, AV, malware, etc might interfere with your online backup... not likely, but when you take an offline bakcup with your recovery media, you minimize that risk).

Some people like to clone instead of backup and restore just before they upgrade or replace hard drives.  The result is the same in either scenario - I find that backup and restore actually has less complications, and you have backups too!  A clone gives you nothign to fall back on if it fails or if you clone the drives in teh wrong direction.  

Thank you Steve.  I ended up uninstalling & re-installing the program, then was able to access the Dashboard & delete the cloud backup - yay!

Have the back up running now to my external HDD, emails are working again & the whole computer is behaving thank goodness

regards

Terri

Thank you Enchantech

I wasn't able to access ScheduleManager, the Dashboard, or most other screens - a login window appeared but didn't let me click to enter my details.

  I ended up uninstalling & re-installing the program, then was able to access the Dashboard & delete the cloud backup - yay!

Have the back up running now to my external HDD, emails are working again & the whole computer is behaving thank goodness

regards

Terri

Great! Glad we got it sorted for you.

ok thank you!

So at the moment I have a master image of 549GB and 2 other pieces 

- 993 MB done on the 14th may at 09:54

- 18590MB done on the 14th may at 10:52

Questions: 

-how do i understand if these 2 pieces are incremental or differential?  ( i selected an incremental scheme, so i think it's incremental, but just asking)

- how do I "unify" these pieces?  I have already an option that " create a full version after every 5 incremental versions" .... so i don't have to do anything in this case? shall I just wait for the 5th piece of incremental and then Acronis will automatically join?

Also, I've started my 4th incremental backup, and i thought it was going to be smaller than the previous ones, but i see that it's backing up  94GB , which is strange, as i'm pretty sure that after only 2 days i can't have generated 94GB of new data?!

how is this working?

thanks!

Alex

When you look at your screenshots, they show the file names and these tell you what type of backup was used, i.e. those files with _full_ are full images, whereas those with _inc_ are incremental images.  If you had any differential images the file name would include _diff_ to show these.

Steve Smith wrote:

When you look at your screenshots, they show the file names and these tell you what type of backup was used, i.e. those files with _full_ are full images, whereas those with _inc_ are incremental images.  If you had any differential images the file name would include _diff_ to show these.

thank you Steve, then I also asked:  how do I consolidate all these _inc_ parts? is this done automatically?  

I have already an option that " create a full version after every 5 incremental versions" .... so i don't have to do anything in this case? shall I just wait for the 5th piece of incremental and then Acronis will automatically join?

Also, please see screenshot, I now have :

1 - _full_ .tib for 550GB

1 - _inc_.tib of 0.9GB

1 - _inc_ .tib of 18.5GB

1 - _inc_.tib of 414 GB (?!?!)

question... how is it possible that the latest incremental is almost as big as the full backup? Note that I didn't change almost anything in 5 days... how is this possible? 

And once again, how do I consolidate these pieces of _inc_ ?

thanks!

I don't believe that Acronis does consolidation in these latest versions, that is handled more by the version controls and by using automatic cleanup options to control how many versions you keep.

One of the reasons why your incremental backup size could be similar to your full backup size is if you are doing any form of defragmentation on your hard drive(s) as this will in effect touch a very large number of sectors on the drive.

Acronis detects changes to include in the incremental images by looking a sector changes more than just looking at individual files as far as I am aware, hence if you touch lots of sectors with defrag operations, your next backup will be much larger.

Steve Smith wrote:

I don't believe that Acronis does consolidation in these latest versions, that is handled more by the version controls and by using automatic cleanup options to control how many versions you keep.

One of the reasons why your incremental backup size could be similar to your full backup size is if you are doing any form of defragmentation on your hard drive(s) as this will in effect touch a very large number of sectors on the drive.

Acronis detects changes to include in the incremental images by looking a sector changes more than just looking at individual files as far as I am aware, hence if you touch lots of sectors with defrag operations, your next backup will be much larger.

ok thank you. No defrag  done, so the 414GB incremental remains a mistery.

And then the same question : how do I consolidate these pieces of _inc_ ?

Please see the following KB documents from ATIH 2015 which apply also to all subsequent versions, i.e. 2016...

48662: Acronis True Image 2015: Discontinued Features

The following features have been discontinued:

• Consolidation -- Allows to consolidate archives and remove outdated information.
  See Acronis True Image 2015: Consolidation Is Not Supported.

The equivalent to using consolidation is to use the Backup Scheme options to create new version chains according to the rules that you define yourself.

See the Best Practices for data protection forum which has lots of examples of doing this. 

Steve Smith wrote:

Please see the following KB documents from ATIH 2015 which apply also to all subsequent versions, i.e. 2016...

48662: Acronis True Image 2015: Discontinued Features

The following features have been discontinued:

• Consolidation -- Allows to consolidate archives and remove outdated information.
  See Acronis True Image 2015: Consolidation Is Not Supported.

The equivalent to using consolidation is to use the Backup Scheme options to create new version chains according to the rules that you define yourself.

See the Best Practices for data protection forum which has lots of examples of doing this. 

ok, the equivalent of consolidation is the backup scheme .... once again, how do I use this backup scheme to consolidate these pieces of _inc_ files that i have?   there is no explanation.....  

once again, please see the image... i have 1 _full_ and a few _inc_  i need to put them altogether... 

... would it be possible to have a step by step procedure or a precise link to it? 

Sorry but the answer remains as before, there is no option to consolidate your incremental files other than the backup scheme options already provided, i.e. create a new Full version after x incremental or differential images.

See attached image from one of my systems where I create 14 incremental images then create a new Full backup and remove all the prior incrementals / full images i.e. keep only 1 version chain.

Steve Smith wrote:

Sorry but the answer remains as before, there is no option to consolidate your incremental files other than the backup scheme options already provided, i.e. create a new Full version after x incremental or differential images.

See attached image from one of my systems where I create 14 incremental images then create a new Full backup and remove all the prior incrementals / full images i.e. keep only 1 version chain.

ok thank you, so there is no manual consolidate, clear.

what remains unclear is this: i selected 5 incrementals in the backup scheme, and now i have 1 full and 4 inc... so, how does it work, will it wait for 1 more _inc_ , so a total of 5 _inc_ and then consolidate them automatically in the _full_ ?

Let's go with your example: 1 Full and max 5 Incr.  What other options have you selected here?  How many days to keep versions?  How many versions to keep?  All of these settings influence how this works.

Day 1 - Create Full version 1
Day 2 - Create Incr version 1 (based on Full version 1)
Day 3, 4, 5, 6 - Create Incr versions 2,3,4,5 (all based on Full version 1)

Day 7 - Create Full version 2 - a whole new full version that includes all system changes to the selected data till now.
Day 8 - 12 - Create Incr versions 1 - 5 (based on Full version 2)

Repeat adinfinitum...  depending on your other settings.

If you have selected to keep each version for 7 days, then the age of version chain 1 (Full 1 + 5 Incr) starts when Full version 2 is created, i.e. version chain 1 is 1 day old when Full version 2 is created, so would be kept until Full version 3 is created when version 1 is then 7 days old.

If you select to only keep 1 version chain, then version chain 1 is deleted when Full version2 is created to starta new version chain.

All of this is shown in worked examples in the Best Practices Forum referenced earlier.

Note: if you go in and change any of the backup task options during the above process, then the version chain age is reset and starts counting from 1 again!

Can't I validate these _inc_ manually? 

Yes, you can validate in one of two different ways:

1. In Windows / File Explorer, right-click on the .TIB image file and select True Image then Validate.

2. In the Acronis GUI, click on (V) next to the task that created the backup image, then click Validate

See attached screen shots.

Ok thank you,

well i started the validation of my tib files yesterday, and after 24 hours is still telling me that there is 1d and 13h to go... is this normal?

Please notice also the size of my tib files, nothing too massive.

Also, a couple of times the validation got stuck cause it said that a file might be curruped, i just hit "retry" and the process went on ...

so... is this situation normal? such a long time?

1TB across a network connection - could take some time.  Unfortunately, bandwidth can fluctuate.  Resources on the PC can fluctuate. Resources on the NAS can fluctuate too.  The time may fluctuate with these changes and drastically increase or decrease as the resources from thesource and destination are utilized and freed up throughout the process.

How long did the backup job take - expect the validation to take at least that long too.  If it is telling you files may be corrupted, they might be and it could be having trouble reading them.  Or, it could be the network is dropping out at times and causing difficulty to read the backup files to validate them.  

You might want to put a steady ping form a command prompt to the NAS and look for dropped packets and latency.

Use 

ping -t 192.168.1.10    (replace IP with your NAS IP)

to keep a steady ping from the PC to the IP of the NAS

Ok I had to stop the validating process because i needed to restart my PC, a few things were getting corrupted.

Question: would i lose all the validation done so far and have to restart from scratch? 

It looks like... because i started the process and it's still calculating the remaining time :/  and now it's telling me that there is one day remaining

so, all I was trying to do here is to consolidate these 4 _inc_ into one single FULL, as i have to leave in 2 days and i wanted to bring an up to date back up with me and i have a limited storage.  

If this consolidation will take forever, as it seems it's happening ( 2 days or more is not acceptable )  i guess I'll take with me only this Entire PC (ALXDVC)_full_b1_s1_v1.tib of 549GB,  backup from the 12th of May

So, just in case, i would be able to restore this backup, correct? 

Sorry to keep repeating this but there is no consolidation anymore in ATIH 2015, 2016.

Validation does not do consolidation.

The only way you have to 'consolidate' your 4 incremental images into one single FULL backup image is to create a new Full image which will be as up to date as possible to take away with you rather than the previous full backup from 12th May.

You should test the Acronis bootable rescue media to be assured that you can restore your backup in case of need, i.e. make sure the bootable media boots into the offline Acronis program and can see your internal and external drives.

ok I understand that they changed names but let's just consider the concept:   consolidation / validation / merging...  all fine - it's about putting small files together to a big file, isn't it?

So:  I want to merge these 4 _inc_ files into the _full_     how do I do this?

Also, my validation is still going on... what is Acronis doing in thos Validation then?

thank you!

Consolidation was about merging the backup files together but Acronis have removed that feature as advised before.

There is no method of doing this now - no method to merge the backup files.

You have two options here:

1. Take the full backup image plus all incremental images = backup version chain.

2. Make a new full backup image which includes all changes to your system to date.

Validation is simply a process to compare the checksum of your image files with the file content by recalculating that checksum again from the file and comparing with the checksum value stored with the file.

This can take as long as it does to make the image file.

Hi all,

I have just read thru this post, and feel one of you blokes can probably head me in the right direction?  I have been using Acronis backup/recovery software for years, and currently on True Image 2015 (latest update). In the past I have had a couple of "crashes" (under Vista) and completely recovered to a new HDD using a TI Image of the drive.

Now my concern arose early this year after updating to Windows 10, I performed the ritual of producing a new Image Backup, then later, you guessed it, I suffered a disk failure (it would not look like booting - sitting forever with a flashing blank blue/black screen).  No problem I thought - replace with new HDD and run Recovery. 

Imagine my dismay when Recovery had completed and Win 10 would not boot. (I saw for the first time the now very familiar "BOOTMGR is missing . . . " message at the top left of an otherwise black screen.  Over the months since I have tried everything I can think of (using a "spare" laptop and new 1TB SATA drive for testing purposes) to successfully make an Image Backup of a Windows 10 partition, then SUCCESSFULLY Recover it again. All without success???????

I can see all the files on the "recovered" drive, but Windows 10 will not boot - producing only the "BOOTMGR is missing . . . . ." error message.  I have even checked that Bootmgr.exe.mui is present in the recovered Windows/boot folder.

I would REALLY appreciate any assistance you may be able to help me with, please!    I am guessing that I have some "disconnect" between the POST and the Booting process??

Regards,

Ian K

Ian, this can happen if you booted the offline recovery media differently thann how the OS was installed.  Just like Windows installers, how you boot them, impacts the outcome. 

So, if your original OS install was legacy, boot your recovery media in legacy mode and then restore.  If your OS install was originally UEFI, boot the media in UEFI mode.  

Legacy boot will be a blue screen with graphical menu itmes.  UEFI boot mode will be black bacground with oldschool DOS-like white text menus.  Do the opposite of whichver one you restored with last time and see how it goes.  

I'd suggest using your bios onetime boot or boot override menu to specifically pick the boot method and try one and then the other if the first method doesn't result in a bootable OS.

Hi Bobbo,

Thank you for your prompt reply. It sure sounds like you are definitely on the right track to assisting to help me solve my problem, but I must confess, I am pretty much unknown ground when it comes to how Legacy and/or UEFI bios operates.  But I love a challenge!!

So I will spend some time carefully reading your advice, perhaps doing some additional "Google" researching about bios (mine in particular), and then get back to you with either a "progress" report on my "success" (?), or a request to answer additional "dumb" questions.

Sincerely, many thanks,

Ian K

I'm back again, Bobbo,

After quite some "research" over the past 24 hours, I now can advise that my laptop (HP dv6 Pavillion) uses InsydeH2O ver F.24 BIOS. I note that much of the "chatter" is that this BIOS is very restricted, unfriendly, etc. to anyone trying to make any adjustments.  I have tried a few different suggestions to access anything like OneTime Boot or Boot Override Menu, all to no avail.

Is it possible that you may be able to "point" me in the right direction to get into the boot options I think I need (as you have suggested).

Any further help would again be greatly appreciated.

Regards,  Ian K

Ian,

I had a situation where a Win 10 backup made by ATI 2016 would not restore.  After 3 attempts, and out of desperation, I booted from my ATI 2014 rescue disk and performed the restore using ATI 2014...and it worked.

No guarantees, but might be worth a try, if you still have an ATI 2014 rescue boot disk.

Regards,

FtrPilot

I'm not too familiar with HP.  I have an older netbook and have to press F1 to get to the menu, but it seems like F9 is the way to go in newer UEFI HP systems.

A couple of thougths if you are using a Windows 10 system with fastboot?  Shutting down may not be shutting down, but actually hibernating and locking the Windows drive as a result.  Try rebooting and then pressing F9 and see if that helps.  Alternatively, you can force a full shutdown by using command prompt and "shutdown /s" which will ingore fastboot/fast start and make it shutdown completely.  

You also want to make sure that secure boot is disabled in the bios or it will never boot anything other than the OS. 

Hi again Bobbo and FtrPilot,

Thanks again for your assistance in attempting to solve my frustration with performing an Image Backup of Windows 10, then successfully Recovering it - so that it will actually Boot!!

Firstly FtrPilot, I do have a copy of ATI 2013 Rescue Disk (no 2014 unfortunately), but alas, having done as you suggested, booted with that and done a new recovery, still no luck. What a bugger, but worth a try.

Secondly Bobbo, I am yet to try a "shutdown /s" of Win 10 then do yet another Image Backup (I'll report back after doing that) but I have rechecked the BIOS in the particular machine I am working with (HP dv6). The version is F.24 and it actually gives NO options under the "Boot Options" line (other than "Boot Order") and thus no alternative of "Legacy/UEFI" (it is running in Mode - Legacy), also no alternative to turn Secure Boot On or Off (it is reporting "Secure Boot State - Unsupported".  The date on the BIOS is June 2009, so it is getting back a bit.

I don't want you blokes "banging your brains" too much for me - I think I'll just give up on trying to do an Image Backup of Win 10. I will stick to using (as I am right now) Win 8.1 on my newer HP ENVY m6 Notebook with InsydeH2O ver F.25 BIOS (Jan 2013) - which by the way does report the Boot Options, etc to which you have alluded.

I will try once more with the Image after a "shutdown /s" - just in case???

Regards,

Ian K

Back again Folks,

Well today I successfully Recovered a Windows 10 Pro partition from an Image Back up after trying on and off, doing heeps of on-line research, and asking lots of questions over the past 6 months.  (This all started back in January when I suffered a HDD "crash" and found that when I employed my Acronis TI 2015 [latest version] Image Backup for Recovery onto a new replacement drive, I was unable to [ever] recover Win 10 to the point where it would Boot.)

Today's success was NOTHING to do with an Acronis product!  In fact I will, in all probability, NEVER part with good money again to update from my TI 2015, having relied on these backups since the early 2000's, when I started with a free version of Disk Wizard.  I am both disappointed that my current version of TI has let me down big time, and also that I note I have not seen any (helpful or otherwise) comment on this forum from any Acronis Support employee, on the above problem.

I have just done what I guess I should have been smart enough to do months ago!!  I used Microsoft's "internal" Win 10 Image Back Up utility to create an Image (which was many times faster than TI has been taking), then followed the simple steps to Recover to a replacement disk (of the same size), and "voila" complete  SUCCESS!   Thank you Mr Microsoft!  (I never really believed I'd say that!!)

Anyway, my problem is solved, but I will always wonder why TI couldn't do it, and many thanks to those of you on this forum who have taken the time and effort in an attempt to assist me.

Regards,

Ian K

Ian, as long as you have a working recovery method, that's the most important thing. 

I honestly use Acronis on probably at least 30 different model types of systems and it works fine on all of them.  However, it is dependent on the recovery media and how it's booted and what is selected to be restored since it is not intregated into Windows and requires the user to be able to identify these items on their own.  Once they are properly configured adn the media used properly, backup and recovery have always worked for me.  

Windows backup is integrated into Windows and already knows exactly how the system is configured and when you boot to recovery mode from Windows.  It is part of the existing bootloader and launches in the correct method already too.  For awhile, I used Windows backups as well, but found that overtime, it did not automatically groom itself out and just stopped when the disk filled up (without warning).  worked great for awhile too, but also let me down in that regard.  

Long story short, again, glad Windows backup is meeting your needs.  I would not put all of my backup eggs in any one product or method.  I also wouldn't put my backup files in one location (3-2-1 method is the enteprise standard). 

Wish I had a similar system to test on - I know it can and will work, but not sure where you're running into trouble.  Wihout being able to use your one time boot menu, not sure how the Acronis media is loading, but based on the "no mbr found" it is using legacy mode by default and needs to be using UEFI so that is ultimately the issue.  If you could get it to boot in UEFI and restore after that, I'm sure it would restore in a bootable manner after that.  

Hi again Bobbo,

Thank you again for your "words of wisdom". I have taken "on board" all your comments (and printed then out for future reference).  I am quite prepared to admit that even after many years of using Windows PCs (back before Windows 2) and as a trained, qualified Electronics TechO, I still have lots to learn.

Maybe my problem is 2 fold - firstly that with the BIOS of the machine I am "testing" on just will not let me run UEFI, and uses Legacy by "default" as that is all it supports?? Secondly, even if I could enable UEFI, I probably wouldn't know what Parameters to set to restore to a Bootable condition.

As you say, for now I do have a solution to my Image Back Up, but even with my frustration showing (as I realise it is) I actually will not give up on this in the longer term - that is not who I am!!  I may have to start doing my "testing" on this (my newer Laptop) which will boot in UEFI, but I am just a little hesitant at present!

I agree with your comment about "all eggs in one basket" and (between you and I) will continue to use TI 2015 to backup data files that are "mission critical".  Just not (for now) rely on it for System Images.  I will also return my attention to Disk Cloning.

Once again, I really appreciate your help.

Regards,

Ian K