Backup Size Increases Significantly when Snapshot for Backup is set as VSS
I backed up my system drive after updating to the latest build of True Image 2017 (build 8029). In previous builds, when compression was set as normal the size of the backup file was the same size as the used space on the source disk. After the update, the backup file for 19GB of data was 69GB in size. Immediately prior to starting the backup the Windows disk properties console identifies the used space on the drive as 19GB. Once the backup starts, used space jumps to 69GB. After the backup is completed, used space returns to 19GB. I restored the backup to a different location to find out what was leading to the size increase. I found a 50GB file in the System Volume Information directory that was not there prior to the start of the backup. After doing a bit of googling, I was able to determine that the file is being created as a result of the new Snapshot for Backup feature in build 8029 being set to use the VSS. If I change the setting of this option from VSS to no snapshot, the backup size matches the used disk space as was the case pre-build 8029.
Is this normal behaviour when the Snapshot for Backup option is set to use the VSS? From what I understand the shadow copy is created to fix the data to a particular point in time so that data is in a consistent state throughout the backup process. I didn't expect that the shadow copy file would actually be included in the backup though. Given that I've been using True Image since 2009 without having issues with data consistency due to file changes that occur during backups, I'm tempted to disable the feature. But the recommendation from Acronis seems to be to leave the option enabled. Is the shadow copy file in the backup used by True Image when the image is restored?
There are no file exclusions set for the backup task. A snapshot file is definitely being created when True Image 2017 starts the backup and deleted after it is finished, and the file is in the System Volume Information directory when the backup is restored. I did not see this behaviour in True Image 2014, which is the version of the software that I am most familiar with. I purchased and installed 2017 when it first came out, but I quickly uninstalled it and returned to 2014 because I did not find it stable enough for day to day use. I reinstall it after major updates are released to see if things have improved. It was only after reinstalling it when Update 2 was released that I noticed the behaviour I described in my original post.
I need to make a couple corrections to my last post. The drive that is being backed up is not the system drive. It is is a data drive. I should also mention that System Protection is disabled for the drive. Which if I understand things correctly means that Windows itself is not using the VSS to create snapshots of the drive. Should True Image even being using the VSS to create a snapshot if it is not enabled for the drive at a system level?
2014 was not using VSS - it only used the Acronis proprietary snapapi backup method. In 2015, and since then the default snapshot method has been VSS. You can switch back to the Acronis Snapapi method if you prefer though. The advantage of VSS is the ability to backup open databases in SQL and Oracle, although I wouldn't trust such asn open backup anyway since databases may be receiving modifications from multiple sources and or still changing from the moment the snapshot has started.
Yes, Windows will use VSS by default for snapshotting, on any drive, unless you specifically return to Snapapi - see screenshot
You may want to create a new task as well to see if the exclusions are not applying. The default exclusion has "System Volume Information" which is where the snapshot is being created during the process, but should be excluded unless you removed it. If not, try a new backup task from scratch with the exclusion and see if it is still large when backed up. You'll have no VSS if you switch back to Snapapi though.
If you truly have no exclusions set for the backup then the System Volume Information file would be included in the backup. Under Backup options look for the Adbvanced tab, Exclusions and verify that the System Volume Information file appears in the exclusions list.
Even though you do not have System Protection active on the drive in question does not mean that True Image will not create a snapshot of the data on the drive. True Image is designed to do just that when VSS is enabled in the backup task. True Image simply uses Windows, actually NTFS VSS support to perform snapshotting of the data on disk. By design of NTFS that snapshot is written to the System Volume Information file.
Now hafing said all that I have never known the application to do as you suggest. My thought would be possible corruption of Windows registry where default exclusion of files to backup are written that cause the System Volume Information file to be backed up even though it has been excluded.
I would verify the Sytem Volume Information file is showing in the exclusions list and if it is I would open a support ticket with Acronis for investigation.
2014 was not using VSS - it only used the Acronis proprietary snapapi backup method...
Thanks Bobbo. I want a full backup of all data on the disk without exclusions, including System Volume Information. It doesn't make sense to me that a temporary file that TI creates during the backup and deletes immediately after is being included in the backup. For now I'll switch to the Acronis proprietary snapapi until I get the VSS "issue" sorted. I never had an issue with TI2014 so hopefully the functionality will be the same with that setting in TI2017.
If you truly have no exclusions set for the backup then the System Volume Information file would be included in the backup. Under Backup options look for the Adbvanced tab, Exclusions and verify that the System Volume Information file appears in the exclusions list.
.
.
.
Now hafing said all that I have never known the application to do as you suggest. My thought would be possible corruption of Windows registry where default exclusion of files to backup are written that cause the System Volume Information file to be backed up even though it has been excluded.
I would verify the Sytem Volume Information file is showing in the exclusions list and if it is I would open a support ticket with Acronis for investigation.
I want a full backup of all data on the disk without exclusions, including System Volume Information. I don't fully understand how the Volume Snapshot Service works. But it doesn't make sense to me that a temporary file that TI creates during the backup and deletes immediately after is being included in the backup.
I've attached some images showing that TI2017 is doing exactly what I'm saying. The first shows the used space on the backup drive before, during and after the backup. The second image shows the shadow copy file that exists in the System Volume Information directory when the backup is restored.
Acronis doesn't make the temp file, windows vss does. Vss is a service in Windowsthat takes snapshots of the system - a temp file that duplicates the original as a holding place until it is written into the backup file.. Vss uses the system volume folder on the root of your c drive to do this process and it grows during the snapshot process. It is a default exclusion because 1) it is created for the purpose of vss and not required for a backup. 2) when restored Windows usually disables system protection which deletes the system volume ptotection that also uses this folder.
disable vss in your backup task and it will use the old snapspi method from 2014 and earlier without doing this. Or, take a backup offline with your recovery media. I would leave it as is and keep system volume protection excluded if you don't want this file in the backup eating unnecessary space.
Agree with Bobbo, if you are including the System Volume Information in your backups you shouldn't be as there is no benefit in doing so. Either leave the System Volume Information file excluded from the backup or run the vackup without using VSS.
If the situation is that the System Volume Information file is excluded from the backup yet the backup is not honoring that exclusion and therefore is including it in the backup then you need to open a support ticket to that effect for investigation of the cause.
I'm having the same problem except my problem isn't the size of the System Volume Information. It's caused by Acronis using VSS. Doesn't Acronis even bother to test new features. If you can't add a feature that works equally as well or better than Acronis Snapshot. Don't add it!
WHS 2011 uses VSS, backs up everything and doesn't waste space. That is what Acronis needs to figure out. Until then I'll continue to use both.
Technogod,
Would you mind explaining what your issue is exactly? Without that your issue will never be addressed.
Incremental backups were 20 to 90GB when they should have been a tenth of that size or less.
Windows backup excludes system volume information by default too. If the exclusion is removed from Acronis, or the exclusion isn't kicking in, it will get backed up.
Look at all the default Windows VSS exclusions in the registry. They are listed in:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\BackupRestore
and the subfolders below it - system volume information is excluded.
Use Treesize or Mindgems Folder Size to see what's currently in your System Volume information (how big it is). Windows backup uses this directory too - any chance your Windows backup is running when Acronis is taking a backup? If not, I'd suggest verifying yoru exclusions for System Volume Information are still in place and specifically add these too:
C:\System Volume Information
*System Volume Information*
System Volume Information
If they are in the exclusions already and not being observed - try cloning the backup task and ensure they are in the backup exclusion before running it for the first time to see if that makes a difference.
That's not the problem. If I use Acronis Snapshot it works fine. Acronis needs to fix the freaking problem or add these freaking workarounds to their documentation.
Just trying to help - I can't fix the build, but can try to help you out. I don't have this issue myself on any of my machines. Did you verify the exclusions exist and attempt to run a new backup task for the first time with them in there?
Really can't say what's different on your case. You could always try downloadig the full installer and be sure to right-click and "run as administrator" - even if logged in as an administrator (you need that extra step to give it the most rights) and attempt a "REPAIR" install too. I suspect that if you did that and used a new task, the issue would not exist (assuming the default exclusion is there before the backup is run).
That's about all the help/advice I can offer on the matter.
This was a fresh install on a clean install of Windows 10 Pro. I excluded the system information directory and had the same problem. Exclusions have never worked properly when doing Disk & Partition level backups.
I won't argue with you, if you have an issue on your system.
I can't replicate the same issue on any of my home systems for test VM's. As you'll see in my screenshot, the system volume folder is not in a full backup that was just run today. Unfortunately, we won't really be able to narrow down the specific issue in your case from a forum-only perspective, as there may be more going on with your OS, apps, who-knows what. If you want, pm me and I'll give you a link where you can upload your Windows system event logs so I can take a look. I'd also like to see the information in your backup script how it's listed in it.
WHS 2011 uses VSS. It backs up the system information folder on my computer. I examined the folder. That is NOT what is causing the problem. It's a problem with Acronis and VSS.
TechnoGod,
Please contact technical support directly for assistance. With no real assistance or specific information (Acronis logs, Windows system logs) from your end, there's nothing we can do for you. I can't offer you anymore of my personal time in the matter. Perhaps someone else will feel compelled too if you have more to offer than complaints.
If Acronis would fix something I wouldn't have to complain. Tech support is a waste of time.
Last help I can offer... won't be back to this thread.... maybe there's some information here. As we still don't have any details about TechnoGod's system, setup, or logs, I can only guess and keep shooting ducks in a barrel.
https://social.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/b3c29959-edf9-4cf8-97a1-00a0f…
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2781272/a-hotfix-is-available-…
Submitting a technical support ticket and workign with Acronis directly for WHS11 is probably the best option since it is a rarely used OS and hasn't recevied any love from MS in awhile. Perhaps something has changed in Acronis to handle newer OSe's that has led to this issue. Or perhaps it's something local - the world may never know at this rate.