Seeing a Synology NAS through ATI 2018 NAS Connections and Network
I know this subject has been tossed about in various places with respect to other problems, but my research has not resulted in any real clarity. I'm hoping as a separate thread, I can get some help from others in seeing how people have their computer and Synology NAS devices configured.
I have a Synology DS213j, running the latest version of DSM 6.1.6-15266. My PC is running Windows 10 Pro Version 1709 Build 16299.309.
Symptoms:
I have never seen the NAS listed under the NAS Connections. When creating a backup, the NAS does not appear in the Network but once I enter in the NAS manually (e.g. \\NASbox) it will then appear under the Network, but not under NAS Connections. I have no problems backing up to the NAS.
Under Windows 10, I can open an Explorer windows and select Network. It shows my router and my Dish TV system and all list Discovery Method as SSDP. It does not show my wife's Windows 10 PC or my NAS. If I manually enter in the name of the NAS box or other PC, then that shows up under the Network branch of the tree, but only in that instance of the Windows Explorer. It will not show up if I open a new Explorer window.
Windows 10 Configurations:
Bonjour service is set to Automatic and is running fine. There seems to be no problem there.
Under Control Panel->Programs and Features->Turn Windows features on or off, SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support is fully off (deselected). SMB Direct is on. Telnet Client is off.
In the Ethernet Properties, Internet Protocol Version 4 (TCP/IPv4), WINS, I selected "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP" instead of the default (as others found this to work) but this had no effect.
Firewall is ZoneAlarm Free with Bonjour Service allowed. Disabling the firewall has no effect.
Synology NAS Configurations:
Control Panel->File Services->SMB/AFP/NFS, SMB service is enabled. AFP and NFS are not enabled. Minimum SMB protocol is SMB2, Maximum is SMB3.
Control Panel->File Services->Advanced, Bonjour service discovery is enabled. The other three Bonjour features are not set (Printer Broadcast, Time Machine with SMB, Time Machine with AFP).
SSDP Enable Windows network discovery is not set.
If I enable SSDP, then the NAS will show up in the Windows Explorer network (as Other Devices in the right pane but not in the tree), but it does not show up under the ATI 2018 Network.
Setting the three additional Bonjour settings does not affect ATI either.
If you have a Synology NAS that can be seen by ATI 2018 under NAS connections, can you give me some guidance as to what I may need to configure, either on Windows, NAS, or router. Steve Smith, I believe I noted that you have your Synology visible.
None of this is critical to my system and my backups are fine (except for other unrelated issues), but I am curious as to how to get it to be seen.
Thanks!
-Bruno
Ian, when the NAS appears as a network device, does it appear right away when configuring a new backup? On mine, it will only appear as a network device once I've manually entered it into the task.
Bruno, it is a while since I last did this and my recollection is that it appeared immediately. The problem is that the behaviour changes from version to version and build to build so my recollection is clouded,
Ian
Bruno,
I do not have a Synology NAS however, I do have a custom built FreeNAS server which uses the Linux based FreeBSD OS. Being Linux based is key here as the Synology products as well as most other NAS boxes use some form of Linux based OS.
Like Ian I also have a 4TB HDD attached to my ASUS router which shows under the NAS section of the True Image GUI whereas my FreeNAS server shows under Network.
I can say for certainty that the issue you face is that of Microsoft's move away from SMB1. Reason, SMB1 is the only Protocol that performs network discovery of devices. SMB2 and SMB3 do not provide discovery services. Linux based devices can and do work with SMB2 + 3 but use SAMBA as native message block protocol. SAMBA broadcasts itself as present on the network via NetBIOS. NetBIOS is a method of discovery which computers use (other than Windows PC's) to announce their presence. SMB1 discovery must be available on the network for Linux based devices to show up in Windows as users have grown accustomed to!
If you have devices that are not using SMB1 which provides discovery services than that device will not show up in Windows Explorer or True Image unless you manually connect to the device via a search field.
If you have SMB1 discovery services enabled and the connected device broadcast its presence by NetBIOS then your device will show automatically in Explorer and applications like True Image.
The fix here is for Microsoft to build discovery into SMB2 + later protocols so that device show up as users have grown accustomed to. Unfortunately Microsoft has shown little interest in doing this!
Bruno, my Synology DS215j does show up correctly under NAS with my ATI 2018. I have SMB1.0 disabled / uninstalled on Windows and not used on the Synology.
On the Synology > Control Panel > File Settings only SMB is enabled, and on the Advanced settings I have as shown in the images below:
These are mainly the default settings except where I have removed SMB 1.0 if shown.
In the Windows Features I have as shown below:
Explorer - Network shows SSDP for the NAS discovery method.
I am connecting to the NAS via a mix of Wireless (from laptop) and Ethernet wired (from desktops) but settings are all DHCP with defaults as shown below (from the laptop).
Bonjour service is as installed (have never needed to change any settings).
I am using Comodo Internet Security and again firewall settings are as default in respect of all local network activity.
Net result is I see as below (from ATI 2018 on the laptop).
With SSDP discovery available on the NAS this would most certainly make the NAS show up under the NAS folder in True Image as Steve shows. Enabling Bonjour Service Discovery will allow Bonjour Service installed by Acronis True Image to discover the NAS and should also show under the NAS folder in the GUI. So bases covered twice there.
It looks to me like Synology is stepping up and addressing the change from SMB1 to 2 + 3. That's a good thing as Like I said Microsoft seems not to be interested!
Steve, I have mine set up like yours.
What I found is that when I start a new backup task and Browse for a destination, I cannot see the NAS either under the NAS Connections or the Network branch.
If I type in nas://NASBox, then it will be found and then appear under the NAS Connections branch but not the Network branch. Once I select the NAS and save the backup task, then the main window will show the destination as a NAS. But if I then click to change the destination, the NAS full path will be specified in the edit box at the top, but the NAS does not appear in the tree under either NAS Connections or Network, and I see that the +/- then does not appear next to the NAS Connections branch.I need to reenter the full path to get it to show up under the NAS Connections branch again.
On the other hand, if I type in \\NASBox, then it will be found and appear under the Network branch but not under the NAS Connections branch. Once the backup task is saved, the main window will show the destination as a networked drive (not NAS). If I then click to change the backup destination I will still see the NAS under the Network branch.
So what it all comes down to is that ATI 2018 cannot find the NAS on its own; it needs to be explicitly told about it first.
Steve, do you still see the NAS when you are creating a new backup task?
Bruno, yes, the NAS shows up when creating a new backup task - I tested doing so earlier.
I've been doing lots of testing, but not getting any better results.
One thing I have found is that if the Bonjour service is not running, it is not started by ATI 2018. I would think that if it is using the service, it would start it if necessary.
Hi everyone,
it is not all on topic but a bit of a security excursus.
Please consider to not fall back to SMB1 for security reasons. Wannacry is still around and has hit production of Boeing.
Windows 1709 and 1803 will disable SMB1 if you install new, same does Windows Server 2019.
MS doesn't do this to plague users but to make aware that this protocol might still have some leakage and insecurities despite the patching done.
Control Panel->File Services->SMB/AFP/NFS, SMB service is enabled. AFP and NFS are not enabled. Minimum SMB protocol is SMB2, Maximum is SMB3.
I recommend to configure SMB2 as a minimum level if you run anything newer than Vista, if you have XP you are lost with SMB1.
If possible try to use SMB 3 (Windows 8.x / Windows 10) for best performance.
Unfortunately SMB2 and SMB3 stack on each other so it is not possible to disable SMB2 and use only SMB3.
I am aware that a lot of Synology systems are SMB1 by default. From a security and performance point this is a very bad practice to ensure "compatibility" for not so technical users.
Also other systems like FritzBox still use SMB1. And there is no other option. I have tried to convince Berlin many times to change this, but they do not feel the pressure, instead telling users to enable SMB1 on Windows, if it is disabled.
Plug and play is a blessing and a curse #Monk
SMB feature and compatibility matrix
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/josebda/2015/05/05/whats-new-in-smb…
migration advice for home and business users:
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/filecab/2016/09/16/stop-using-smb1/
p.s. Thanks everyone for the great explainations, I've also had troubles to find Synologies in NAS instead of using network neighbourhood in Acronis. Thanks helping out to fix this :)
[edited 4/10/18]
Steve, is your Bonjour service set to Manual or Automatic?
I have noticed that when I click Select destination, my options are Acronis Cloud, Your external drive and Browse... I have never seen the NAS option on this screen.
I would like to understand how ATI is using Bonjour as it does not appear to access the service? Is there any way to verify what it is doing?
Also, I've captured the TI_Console log when starting the UI and find it is riddled with errors, although the program works fine other than this NASty issue. Both my PCs have the same problem. Is there anything in this log file that may give a clue?
Bruno, my Bonjour service is set to Automatic and remains untouched by me since it was installed.
I am offered choices that include NAS for my Backup destination when creating a new task.
Bruno, I cannot answer your question about how ATI is using the Bonjour service but would assume that this is directly related to how it scans for network resources.
The ti_console log does look to have errors that I don't see in my own logs, so would point you in the direction of KB 60915: Acronis True Image: repairing program settings in case you have not already tried any / all of the repair options shown there?
Steve, what version of Bonjour are you running? I just installed the latest ATI 2018 build and it has no effect on this issue. But again, ATI is trying to install Bonjour version 3.0.0.10 when my system already has 3.1.0.1 (which has been the latest Apple version for years).
I have not yet tried the repair options. I'll consider that when I have some time to potentially put it all back together.
Meanwhile, I've generated a support ticket and passed on the log file as posted above to see if Acronis can come up with something from that.
Bruno, my active Bonjour service is version 3.1.0.1 as shown below taken from the Windows Task Manager > Properties for the service.
Apparently there is a lot I don't know about Bonjour.
Whether the Bonjour Service is Automatic, Manual or Disabled makes absolutely no difference. If it is not running, nothing about ATI 2018 will start it or report any issue if it is disabled.
I also installed Bonjour Browser for Windows. Its list of available Bonjour services lists my router and the NAS. But it lists them the same whether the Bonjour service is running or not.