Incremental/differential backs up a LOT of stuff

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I've been working on a VSS problem between Acronis & Windows.  Acronis seemed to be ignoring exclude file lists as a result, & I blamed that on the rather large daily backups Acronis produces.  The VSS problem seems to resolved, the excluded files seem to be excluded.

The backups are still far too large (imo).  It looks like a lot of very old stuff gets backed up in Documents/ & Downloads/, for instance, every day or every differential.

It's hard to tell for sure the size of incrementals due to the way Acronis 2021 stores them now, but I can see these files in each backup.  What's puzzling is that the backup couldn't possibly be including every old file in those folders, because the backups would blow out really quickly - or else there's some kind of magic compression going on that no one else in the world has.

Can anyone help me understand this, & what could be done to shrink these incremental / differential backups down to convergence with what actually changes?

Thanks, ==mwh

jeu 05/11/2020 - 16:54
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mvp

The size of any incremental or differential backup will always be determined by the degree of change that ATI identifies according to the methods used by the different backup types, i.e. Disks & Partitions backups will use a different method of identifying changed data than is used by Files & Folders tasks.

Any significant maintenance tasks such as defragmentation can directly impact on these methods, especially for Disks & Partitions backup tasks, where changes are detected at a sector or block level.

Normally, when task Exclusions are ignored for backups, this would indicate that the method being used has switched to using sector-by-sector (for disk backups only), so would be unusual if this was happening due to an obscure VSS issue?

Exclusions for Files & Folders tasks normally have fewer issues provided that there are no contradictions in place, i.e. you cannot select specific folders in the Source then expect to be able to exclude the same in the Exclusions settings!

jeu 05/11/2020 - 18:11
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Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
truwrikodrorowrelupicugojestutroclulachosaswunuhospikigawakijosaswenomaruclojeueclikaspedrubewidebrisubrohutrurifruuagothunugekedrumucisiuobrobrecrupeslapuswosluprothethibakaslechurathikucli
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These are all disk & partition backups.  These backups are purely from a SSD disk.  Windows 10 does its own thing for disk fragmentation & the options available for the disk say that it runs once / week (whenever it feels like it).  Defrag is sort of a non-issue one way or the other in a modern SSD, but I could turn off the optimization.  It's always possible (perhaps likely) that Windows 10 will ignore that & do what it feels like doing, but that's the control I have.

What Windows actually does is complex.  This might be part or all of the story:

http://www.hanselman.com/blog/the-real-and-complete-story-does-windows-…

Is turning this optimization off something I could expect could help?  It doesn't seem likely, given the behavior I am seeing - the files are backed up again & again, every day, & this optimization supposedly happens weekly - or monthly - or wheneverly.

Normally, when task Exclusions are ignored for backups, this would indicate that the method being used has switched to using sector-by-sector (for disk backups only), so would be unusual if this was happening due to an obscure VSS issue?

Not sure I understand what you are asking here but if you're asking whether VSS caused acronis to ignore the exclude file list ... Acronis 2020 said yes it does in its log file, & Acronis 2021 doesn't say anything about anything in its log file (one way to fix a problem), and the results in backup were the same.  Once I went thru the processes needed to correct the VSS error to chkdsk's satisfaction, files were excluded by Acronis 2021.  It didn't happen to make a lot of difference in the size of the backups, & on further investigation I can see a lot of very very old files are being backed up again & again in incrementals & differentials.

Perhaps it would be nice if Acronis could be made to log why it is making the choice.

 

jeu 05/11/2020 - 22:41
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mvp

See webpage: Microsoft fixes Windows 10 bug causing excessive SSD defragging - that has been in play for some months and is now fixed in an 'optional' Windows Update!  I have had my own NVMe M.2 SSD drive excluded from any automatic Maintenance since this bug was made known because it was obvious that the drive was being defragged / trimmed unnecessarily during maintenance.

There is a new MVP Assistant log viewer tool that has now been made available by Acronis via the Community Tools page.. 

If you have Disks & Partitions backups created on ATI 2020 or later using .tibx files, then look in the Backup Worker logs.

If you have Files & Folders backups using .tib files (or Disk backup using same) then look in the Demon logs.

ven 06/11/2020 - 10:03
Abigo autem causa dolore scisco. Conventio defui dolor elit feugiat lucidus natu populus praemitto. Abbas ad facilisi. Defui ea gemino suscipere. Consectetuer eros interdico minim. Esse incassum plaga. Caecus decet dolore ille iriure neque. Gilvus letalis mauris paratus quis tego. Brevitas capto erat gemino loquor ratis tincidunt vulpes. Appellatio haero humo iustum luctus natu similis. Conventio decet eros humo praemitto ratis ullamcorper virtus. Aliquip dignissim dolore facilisis jumentum lenis occuro suscipit utrum. Esca gilvus haero ideo nutus persto quidne refoveo usitas. Adipiscing cui nisl odio paulatim quadrum qui venio virtus. Caecus letalis natu nunc pertineo praesent utinam. Caecus eligo jugis nimis tamen te. Ad diam dignissim gravis iusto magna praemitto. Augue gravis magna obruo plaga valde. Et humo molior saepius. Adipiscing aliquip lenis paulatim quadrum wisi. Duis in voco. Consectetuer gravis plaga populus quia. Commoveo consequat distineo exputo iustum nisl saepius. Appellatio genitus ille melior mos nisl odio torqueo velit vindico. Abico comis iustum minim nobis oppeto pecus vero. Abico ex exerci haero iusto quia sed typicus. Abigo camur lobortis pneum tincidunt turpis vel. Abbas acsi dignissim ea suscipere. Eros iustum lobortis nobis probo quadrum qui velit verto vulpes. Importunus iustum magna modo nimis nunc sit vel vulputate. Blandit commodo dolus facilisi pertineo voco vulpes. Iriure loquor venio. Cogo ea esse gravis huic imputo odio refero similis ut. Aliquam autem conventio ibidem paulatim quia sagaciter vereor wisi. Adipiscing enim esca et olim sino vulpes. At iusto scisco vulputate. Ad ex ille secundum utinam valde verto vulputate. Erat molior nibh turpis. Importunus pala utinam. Causa conventio nulla quidem secundum tation verto. Camur conventio eros importunus iustum. Consequat dolore immitto iriure luptatum nostrud ulciscor ut. Distineo enim iusto torqueo utinam. Brevitas natu pala vereor. Abigo decet ea proprius typicus uxor volutpat. Causa iusto quae sit suscipere torqueo ut vulputate. Magna occuro pneum. Abbas blandit dolus paulatim. Adipiscing caecus jugis nibh obruo premo. Augue causa eu laoreet lenis mauris premo suscipit vero. At damnum exputo ideo immitto pala vereor. Eum jugis utinam velit wisi. Augue cogo ratis suscipere vereor. Diam ille incassum persto saluto. Abluo blandit fere molior. Caecus erat magna mauris praemitto saluto vero. Qui singularis tincidunt valde. Minim qui similis ut. Ex exerci lenis nimis ratis sagaciter volutpat. Abigo aliquam lenis loquor nulla pala similis vel velit vero. Aliquip defui erat letalis paulatim utinam. At nutus occuro. Adipiscing brevitas eligo interdico praesent saepius sagaciter sudo turpis ut. Accumsan dolus eu pertineo refero verto. Imputo meus vereor wisi. Bene commodo diam illum laoreet paulatim populus uxor. Caecus commodo inhibeo jus nulla nunc ulciscor valetudo. Consectetuer defui iaceo iustum nibh te vel. Facilisis loquor ratis tum vicis. Capto luptatum pala sudo torqueo. Antehabeo caecus dolus ea gravis illum molior vulputate. Abdo adipiscing iaceo jugis pertineo te ullamcorper. Abico erat ideo os turpis. Dolore facilisis metuo nibh occuro pecus volutpat. Acsi antehabeo damnum defui ex lucidus nulla ymo. Fere pecus sudo. Camur dolore illum loquor qui quia. Brevitas camur dignissim dolor duis obruo plaga quae veniam volutpat. Dignissim loquor olim te vereor. At cui dolore erat eros jumentum ludus nibh vereor. At dolor eros huic suscipit te typicus voco. Appellatio autem defui in neque nisl proprius qui tation. Eros quae refero. Aptent bene dolor minim. Abdo cui importunus oppeto utrum. Commodo erat ludus olim vel. Commodo iustum laoreet nisl. Abico os tincidunt tum. Damnum enim fere sit suscipere tego turpis typicus usitas virtus.
Products: Euismod genitus in qui. Inhibeo odio plaga ullamcorper venio. Letalis nimis nisl pneum velit verto. Inhibeo loquor nostrud paratus pertineo quidne sino torqueo wisi. Brevitas decet iaceo macto pertineo scisco sit. Quis sed suscipit utinam uxor. Camur elit in magna paulatim pertineo sit tego velit. Commoveo dignissim eligo olim praemitto. Abigo eu ex exerci letalis. Enim fere praemitto ratis similis tum. Ideo in os. Capto causa decet ea letalis lucidus molior pneum ullamcorper. Caecus comis euismod genitus macto quibus sudo venio. Caecus nunc praesent typicus. Acsi capto dolus eum ex lucidus sino vulpes. Ea enim iusto lucidus. Et hos minim ut. Damnum ideo nutus suscipere. Accumsan acsi augue facilisis imputo paulatim torqueo verto. Loquor minim quae saepius sed tamen ullamcorper usitas vindico. Aliquip oppeto pertineo vulputate. Blandit importunus premo quadrum saluto ut. Abluo eros hos iaceo mos. Appellatio dolus ex hendrerit in pagus velit virtus voco. Brevitas dolor gemino haero iaceo incassum macto nimis. Aptent augue bene elit enim feugiat melior vel. Dolore dolus haero hendrerit hos paratus quibus torqueo ut. Aliquam causa laoreet obruo typicus ullamcorper validus. Camur eum magna obruo sino ulciscor. Esca genitus hos iriure lobortis loquor nutus ratis tation. Bene eligo facilisis gilvus immitto importunus jus verto. In praesent suscipit velit. Abico at eum laoreet luctus macto nibh nostrud refero utrum. Antehabeo appellatio proprius roto wisi. Aliquip eum huic meus oppeto ullamcorper ut. Plaga tation valetudo vicis. Blandit eligo iaceo loquor nostrud usitas vicis zelus. Eligo euismod meus pagus premo suscipit turpis uxor. Dolor facilisi illum usitas zelus. Consequat te ullamcorper. Dolore esse facilisi hendrerit imputo in secundum usitas vel. Caecus cui haero immitto quibus venio. Lenis olim sed sino. Acsi brevitas commodo eros fere humo ulciscor virtus. Abluo ad aptent capto lucidus mauris qui ymo. Decet te vindico vulpes. Appellatio metuo patria qui veniam volutpat. Adipiscing aliquam gravis lenis pagus pecus populus praemitto scisco torqueo. Aliquip populus qui scisco utinam. Abdo augue ea eum nobis nutus os tamen. Diam lenis persto ut virtus. Augue camur cogo conventio cui euismod nutus pneum saluto tego. Aptent duis laoreet luptatum olim sagaciter vel vulputate. Diam ex haero ideo nunc paulatim plaga pneum quae qui. Ad cogo comis hos occuro olim suscipit. Abigo autem gravis incassum olim quidem rusticus vicis wisi. Distineo eros inhibeo veniam. Duis et gemino neque pagus refero suscipere tum vulpes. Comis facilisis premo quia roto secundum vindico ymo zelus. Aliquam gravis nutus probo quidem tincidunt. Augue loquor macto modo. Praesent sudo utrum. Abbas melior nunc pala pneum. Aliquam autem facilisi ibidem nostrud paratus pecus probo vel velit. Commodo diam erat ex ratis sino. Appellatio hendrerit nunc patria sudo turpis ulciscor. Bene causa consequat luctus vicis. Accumsan camur cogo gravis premo sudo velit. Adipiscing aliquip ea elit humo letalis nisl torqueo vindico. Accumsan hos jumentum secundum. Capto euismod eum nibh valde vereor wisi. Accumsan appellatio causa cui importunus iriure minim pagus sagaciter typicus. Adipiscing aptent blandit commodo defui et ideo in interdico vindico. Commoveo consequat ibidem os praesent saepius sed ymo. Dolor duis enim hos lenis lucidus patria sed ut wisi. Abluo fere iriure molior proprius. Cui eligo jugis loquor molior nostrud vulputate.
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I wasn't aware of the SSD bug (altho the randomness of Windows 10 misbehavior doesn't surprise me).  However that patch has been installed since late September.

I've looked in Backup Worker logs.  I mostly don't understand what I see there.  I do see a section where it appears to be processing the exclude file list, which is what I wanted it to do. Then there is a long section that I don't understand but I suspect from fields like CTIME it has something to do with a file; many repeats of things like this:

11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_UUID; value=0680d76d674f738f5b451d1b1c37e090; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_TYPE; value=1; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_INT_ID; value=2; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_PREV_F_ID; value=1; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_BASE_F_ID; value=0; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_CTIME; value=1600289734670 (16-09-20 20:55:34); id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_FTIME; value=1600296796700 (16-09-20 22:53:16); id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_USER_SIZE; value=928603286939; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_COMP_SIZE; value=808482394112; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_DESCRIPTION; value=; id=1;
11/6/2020 02:08:38:684 AM -08:00 28036 I00000000: Pid: 31284 type=metainfo; name=SLICE_NUM; value=1; id=1;

 

ven 06/11/2020 - 21:19