Automatic restore - which product to use?
I am looking for a solution for the 2 problems listed below.
My questions are: Which product do I have to choose in order to do the job? Which technique? (No need for step-by-step instructions. I just need a hint.)
The set:
PC running Windows 7 - is used for training purposes in a training center
Partition C: is where the system resides
On partition D: an image of the system is stored
In case it is needed to solve the problem, one more partition may be created.
1st problem - - - - - - - - - - - - -
In case of system problems an untrained user must be able to restore partition C: from its image with user input as little as possible. (untrained user: All he knows is he wants to restore the system). Usually the PC will still boot from disk when the problem occurs.
In case of the disk is not bootable anymore, a sysadmin must be able to do the restore manually by rescue CD.
In earlier days for the same job with an XP system I had a solution with Norton Ghost 7.5. There was the system partition with Windows XP on it, and a second partiton that could boot to DOS. The second partition held DOS, all the tools and the image of C:. At the beginning the user was presented XP's boot menue, with the choice of booting XP or DOS. When the user chose to boot DOS, a batch file was run that showed a very simple menue. (There were several system configurations to choose from.) After he had input his choice, the according system was restored from the image without any user input. Notably, there was no need to select source or target or anything like that.
Can I produce an easy-to-use solution like this with Acronis software?
2nd problem - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Same PC.
Windows 7 is running in Try&Decide mode. The idea is, with smaller problems this may provide a faster solution to restore the system. In case of a problem the untrained user must be able to "hit one button" to restore the system. In particular, the user must NOT be able to APPLY the changes.
"Must not be able" just means, this choice must not be offered. The user will not seek actively a way around. It simply has to be provided he will not apply changes by mistake.
Can this be done?
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Whether I'll create a solution for problem 1 or 2 depends on what is possible or what is fastest (in restoring).
Browsing the forums I feel there is much emphasis on automating the backup process. I have managed classroom PCs for over 15 years. Here it's all about automating restore. If it's not easy, it's not accepted by the users (trainers or teachers in this case).
Another point is speed. The XP/Ghost solution mentioned before was able to restore the classroom's 9 PCs in less than 10 minutes. A Windows 7 configuration will have much more data. So speed may be another challenge.
Any ideas will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Robert
Hello Dmitry,
thanks for your reply.
I said this will be a PC in a classroom of a training center. I should have been more precise: There will be up to 10 PCs (the exact number is not yet sure).
@1) Too complicated
I'm using ATI Home 11 for almost 2 years, and I love its clearly arranged user interface. It IS easy to use. However, in a classroom things are different. When the trainer realizes that something is wrong, he gets under terrible pressure. Therefore there has to be a solution that requires "no thinking" and that will finish its task in a short time (below 10 minutes).
@2) The basic idea of "one-click" points in the right direction, but studying the user guide I found:
Only removable media supported.
This would mean a huge set of DVDs, which is not feasable. Media get lost or damaged, and I doubt the user (trainer) will accept this.
Entire hard disk only.
As there may be a data partition on the hard disk which should remain untouched, I want to restore the system partition only.
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Meanwhile I've sent a request to Acronis, directly.
Regards,
Robert
Bob, for #1 what about having a spare hard drive that is identical (i.e. bootable) to the drive in the systems. The system drive will be in a tray which is inserted from the front into a rack mounted in the box. The spare drive is kept in a tray. All the user has to do is slide out the original and slide in the spare, then boot system. Someone will have to "repair" the original as time permits. That someone can also prepare the spare drive in advance, using the Clone feature in True Image.
The tray/rack devices are known as mobile racks.
Another thought ... public libraries use what I think is called Deep Freeze where no matter what a user does to the system, on reboot it is as "new" again. Of course this doesn't help if there is a hardware problem.
DwnNDrty, thanks for your ideas!
About Deep Freeze - - - -
This technique I had in mind when I wrote "problem 2". I'd prefer the Acronis Try&Decide feature for two reasons:
Looking at the costs - a Deep Freeze license is about the same price as an Acronis TI Home license. With Acronis I get the software additionally needed for making full backups and for deploying.
With Deep Freeze the changes in Windows don't survive a reboot. This is by design.
In the training center it's required frequently that reboot is possible WITHOUT loosing changes. E. g. for a course like "How to install a virus scanner", and there are different examples. T&D can do this in the recent versions. There's still the lack of a "one-click" solution for discarding changes (and nothing else). A solution like Deep Freeze circumvents this: To reboot is to restore. There's no choice to be made.
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About the spare drive - - -
Yes I know mobile racks. In fact I use them on my own. It's a fast and easy thing for working with my testing environment, and for swapping backup media.
In early days the training center actually had a solution with mobile racks. They soon abandoned this idea due to the "human factor". Problems were not reported, which often lead to the situation having TWO non-functional instances of the software.
However, there are other aspects. The "someone" to prepare the disks (that's me) will not do this for free. There are times that this has to be done frequently. They plan to have exams in the room. In that case there have to be restores on an hourly basis. Manpower simply will be too expensive for this.
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Meanwhile another idea came up my mind. Why not take the idea with the spare drive (simple and fast!) and leave all the annoying work to a script (eliminating costs and the human factor)?
Two identical systems on the same drive on different partitions. Multiboot. The user boots one system. This choice is default. When the system got unusable, the user simply boots the other one. So far this is pretty much your idea with the spare drive - now for the script:
When the system starts, a script (batch file) is run. The first thing to do is to set a "dirty flag". Next, the script checks, if the other partition is dirty. If it is not, it does nothing. If it IS dirty, the script alters the BCD data (this tells the boot manager what to do) in order to boot only this partition. Next, it restores the damaged partition from an image (which has the "clean" flag in it). After successful restore, the script sets BCD data to default boot still to this partition, but to offer the other one as spare. When everything is ok there is a fully functional spare system again, created completely without "man power". And the restore has been done in the background.
In case the running system is shut down early, restore cannot be completed. Therefore the restriction to boot to working partition only. After a new start, the script will check if the other partition is dirty - and will recognize it's gone at all. So once again the restore process...
Please note: This is all "fictional". I haven't done this, nor have I read about someone who has.
Discussion
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I am used to write batch files, and I basically think this can be done. The thing I worry about most is the behavior of the bootmanager and altering its BCD data. I have always used a tool for this (in Vista), because I remember the "Microsoft way" is plain horror.
The "dirty flag" is simply a file reserved for this - to be created or deleted.
There has to be an imaging program that can be run on command line. It has to accept every input needed as parameters (or to read it from a file).
License issues. Although being used as backup only, a second bootable operating system might require an additional license. If that is the case, the solution is simply too expensive. Actually I have no information about this so far.
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Again, your contributions are very welcome.
Regards,
Robert
I don't mean to offend you or any one at acronis for what your wanting to do, or what im about to tell you, even the acronis employee's have to help their customers with all their needs, But I think you are making things entirely too hard on yourself, there is a better way.
Have you looked into http://www.centuriontech.com/Education/ ?
I've installed these in several schools, and they are the best thing a teacher could ask for. The user/student, can make any changes to the operating system he/she wants. go download a virus, delete important windows files, hack the registry, delete half the registry, and I could go on.
When the computer is rebooted/shutoff/reset, all those changes are deleted. just hit the reset button before each class.
Hi Michael,
thank you for your reply.
I've checked the Centurion page. As far as I understand, Smartshield is quite similar to Deep Freeze.
As I said before, the setup must survive reboot. Neither Smartshield nor Deep Freeze can do that.
I have tried to be somewhat short, so I haven't been clear enough, about why. I agree, virus scanners don't necessarily require a reboot - "but there are more examples": In the training center I was talking about there are not only regular courses. Companies can rent a classroom, as well, e. g. for a weekend. Those companies frequently request some specific software to be installed. The customized system must stay for a weekend, and is reset to "regular use" on Monday a few minutes before lessons begin.
I agree, the idea about the two partitions - one active and one spare - sounds complicated. (No, I'm not offended at all ;) ) Meanwhile I have tried a lot. It turned out, the tricky thing was not so much EDITING the BCD. It is dealing with MORE THAN ONE BCD Store. You can easily end up altering the wrong one, when you set a different partition "active". Worse, I really don't know what happens when the restore process ruins the BCD that is still thought to be in use.
And there were other problems: Running the script silently, or: making the script detect which partition it is run from, for example. Although I have solved some issues, I finally gave up this idea. It turned out, it wasn't necessary.
Hint about editing the BCD Store: The "plain horror" I called it, but this was actually because of bad documentation. Once you get the idea, it's not much different from anything else done on the command line. For people interested in multi-booting and issues with moving or cloning partitions (mostly Vista and 7), I'd like to recommend this site:
http://www.multibooters.co.uk/
So much accurate information, and explained very clearly - a great site.
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Back to the subject. Actually I've developed a solution that exactly does what I want. I don't want to discuss this for now. The reason is I've got problems with my customer. Now that everything works he comes up with competitors that are waaaaaaay cheeeeeaper. Well...
It's not "rocket science" nor is my solution that sensational. But I put a lot of energy into the project, so I don't want to give any hints (to competitors) until the battle is over.
Guess I'll be back at the end of February.
Regards,
Robert