BitDefender Total Security 2012 - Probable ATIH2012 Uninstall Issue
Sorry to have to come back to the forum, but my ATIH2012 woes are not yet ended. I suspect that I will have to do clean reinstalls of Windows and all of my programs on both computers to resolve all of the damage done to my computers by ATIH2012. In my view, this program should be classified as malware.
My personal view is that everyone should rid their computers of Acronis products ... and good luck doing that! Thank you Richard, for your invaluable assistance, but obviously there is other Acronis malware lurking in the Registry or elsewhere that you have yet to discover, as you have already stated. The total lack of adequate response and support from Acronis in regard to their products is just totally unacceptable. Their products are crippling people's computers and many will wind up having to pay for a technician to try and restore their computers.
Following is an exchange of emails that I initiated with BitDefender Technical Support when I encountered an issue, coincidental with my uninstall of ATIH2012. I don't think it is any coincidence.
Any assistance from Richard or the other pros here would be appreciated. BitDefender ticket information follows, organized from newest to oldest email:
Razvan:
Thank you for your prompt response. Let me be clear that I suspect Acronis True Image Home 2012 (ATIH2012) is the original source of the problem and the additional problems that I encountered today. If you visit the Acronis forums (http://forum.acronis.com), you will see that there are many people whose computers has been trashed by trying to uninstall or update this product. I experienced BSODs and had to do registry hacks and restore partition backups to get my computer to boot.
The problem with BitDefender (BD) not updating the scan dates on the home screen started at about the same time that I was trying to rid my computers (main computer – Win 7 HP x32 and laptop Win 7 HP x64) of ATIH2012. That program should be classified as malware. The Acronis uninstaller and the Acronis cleanup tool do not remove all the junk they add to the registry which are above Windows 7 HAL. It uses very intrusive drivers and registry keys and data that are restricted to “Trusted Installer.” Acronis has a large user base, so I suspect that many BD customers are going to encounter similar problems.
OK, on to my experience today. I tried to do a repair as you suggested. The Repair utility did the uninstall to 100% and then stalled at 20% of the install. It would not progress further – CPUs and HD activity were idle. I left it for 15 minutes but nothing was happening. I tried to back out of the repair installer, but it would not exit. The Windows Task Manager could not end the app so I had to Ctrl-Alt-Delete out of Windows.
I then went to the BD installer file and tried to do a new install. The installer started, did its scan, but had a check mark for download files. It hung on that, but when I tried to end the installer in the Task Manager, the installer came alive and started installing. It ended with six errors about five Windows system files and a PKZIP file that could not be processed. At that point, I lost Internet connectivity only on this computer, which could not be resolved by resetting the HS modem and cold booting the computer. Other computers retained Internet connectivity on our home network.
Tried to recover a Restore Point that I had manually created prior to trying the BD repair. That failed because Windows reported an anti-virus program was probably open, but I have had previous problems with Restore Points failing, even when I have turned off BD anti-virus.
Then got out my Revo Uninstaller Pro and uninstalled BD. Internet connectivity returned. Reinstalled BD using Revo to monitor the installation. Installation reported success and I was able to update it. It is now showing last scan today, but of course, it is a new installation, so I will have to wait until tomorrow and do a scan after it tells me my last scan is 1 day old and see if it updates.
I was impressed with your uninstaller. Revo did not find a single registry entry it could identify to BD. Too bad Acronis could not build a similarly robust uninstaller that does not cripple people’s computers.
That leads me to my question. My laptop has the identical issue. Obviously I don’t want to repeat my 3-hour experience today trying to fix this BD issue, probably caused by Acronis. Do you have any suggestions as to what I could check/fix? I am comfortable working in the Registry (have to be, being an Acronis customer). I can try the repair on the laptop – the results might be different, given that its an x64 computer, but I don’t want to get into spending another three hours trying to get my laptop back.
Thank you so much for your assistance. Any and all help will be appreciated. Have a great day.
Regards,
-Phil
From: BitDefender Customer Care
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 6:50 AM
To: Philip A. Campbell
Subject: Re: [Ticket ID:201111261011179] New open ticket
Dear Philip,
Thank you for reaching Bitdefender for support, via e-mail.
The most straightforward way in regards to fixing this issue would be to run a
repair of the program. You can easily do so by clicking on the Windows Start
button, then on "All programs", scroll down in the programs list until you see
the yellow folder icons corresponding to your installed application, and look
for the entry labeled "Bitdefender 2012".
Once you click on it, a menu should drop down, its last option should be
"Repair or remove".
Run the repair and let us know if the notfication persisted after this
process. We await your feedback on this matter.
Best regards,
Razvan Micu
Bitdefender Technical Support Engineer
-------------------------------------
http://www.bitdefender.com/help
https://myaccount.bitdefender.com
-------------------------------------
Use Quick Scan: http://quickscan.bitdefender.com
---------------------- Original Message ---------------------
"Philip A. Campbell"
>
> Content: About a week ago, BitDefender stop recognizing that the computer had
> been scanned. The main window shows the computer has now not been scanned for
> eight days. It has had two full system scans in that time and the log files
> are there and show that it scanned successfully. The only change that I made
> to this computer and a laptop (Windows 7 HP x64) was to remove Acronis True
> Image Home 2012, which was quite a chore and involved some registry hacking to
> recover both computers when the uninstalls corrupted both computers and left
> me able to only boot to a BSOD. Perhaps a BitDefender Update might have
> knocked out the piece that updates the main AntiVirus window with accurate
> scan data. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.Regards,-Phil
>
> Selected Product: Bitdefender Total Security 2012
Whilst it is not at version 2012, the Acronis Internet Security software uses BitDefender v2011 as it's engine, so whilst BitDefender 2012 might have some changes to it's filter drivers, it would be surprising if TIH2012 and BitDefender 2012 couldn't live happily together, I have TIH 2012 and BitDefender 2011 working alongside quite happily.
In my experience, BitDefender also leaves traces in registry when uninstalled as does VMWare.
In my experience, BitDefender also leaves traces in registry when uninstalled as does VMWare.
Colin, you keep mentioning the fact that some other products may also leave traces behind after being uninstalled, but I fail completely to see the significance or relvance to the fact that Acronis leaves behind "traces" that can and do fundamentally alter the operating system's normal HAL management of storage devices, among other things, until they are eliminated by some other method that can itself be quite hazardous at times.
Surely you are not suggesting (are you?) that all such left-behind "traces" are equally offensive (either actually or potentially) or that one example of sloppiness somehow offsets or mitigates other much more serious cases. An erroneous leftover filetype-CLSID association, for example, is not even remotely like CurrentControlSet leftovers that can result in subsequent "blue screen" death traps as experienced by Philip and other Acronius product users. There's just no such valid comparison, as I see it anyhow. Even if there were, it provides not the slightest justification for anyone or anything else at all, let alone those kinds of Acronis user experiences.
At least the "he did it too" excuse never worked for me when I was a kid.
No Richard, I'm not. The bandwagon (as bandwagon go) or perceived wisdom is that Acronis products leave bits and pieces behind, ignoring the fact that many registry entries and DLL's are left behind by a plethora of products when uninstalled. There seems to be a belief that this is a True Image only occurrence or intimation at the very least.
I am just pointing out this is not unique to Acronis products and in the case of DLL's as you know there is a good reason why these often aren't removed. Obviously because of the depth to which various bits of Acronis products embed themsleves into the Windows system it is more noticeable they aren't removed. Also of course, the more likely they are to trip a system up if they aren't neutralised properly at uninstall time.
I agree that the uninstaller should be better at at least rendering left over entries as harmless.
As it happens for the past year I have had an extreme annoyance with Disk Director 11 Advanced, which Acronis have shown little interest in - I can get around this, and as no one else has ever reported on these forums publicly the problem of trying to get Acronis agent to actually install, I assume Acronis have shrugged their corporate shoulders and decided to ignore it. I have the view that the more wierd and rare a problem is, the more likely it is to be causing a side effect somewhere else and the wrong part of the program is identified as causing the problem, so the actual cause of the effect is never solved.
Thanks for your comments and suggestions, Richard and Colin. No, I don't know where BitDefender stores its scan date information. I will wait to hear back from BD Technical Support and report back.
The fresh install "seems" to be working, but it will be a day or two more before I can ascertain whether that solved the BD issue.
Thanks again. Have a great day.
Regards,
-Phil
Hi Philip. A successful fresh BD install really should fix any problems regardless of whether they're in the registry or on disc, unless we're dealing with some extremely weird consequence of prior actions that I couldn't even guess at. Please let us know how it goes.
__
@Colin B: Sorry, Colin, but that still sounds like some kind of "he did it too" defence attempt to me. And I still don't understand either the relevance or your motivation. To serve what purpose exactly?
It's a bit like some lawyer representing his client by telling the judge: "Yes, your honour, it's true that my client was racing down the highway at 150 miles per hour at the time that he broke through the barrier and wiped out all the kids in his care, but your honour, some other people sometimes exceed the speed limit too."
Anyhow, FWIW, this "judge" isn't much impressed with that argument. You don't even seem to acknowledge that there are consequential aspects that matter far more than just the "speeding" itself -- especially for the victims. In fact, if you really want to be helpful to Acronis TIH users, I would argue that a lack of common awareness of its behaviour and consequences is what really needs to be addressed, not any substantive error of "perceived wisdom" on the part of the users themselves. The more who become aware that it leaves potentially disastrous CurrentControlSet alterations behind and who might thus be able to act defensively, the better so far as I'm concerned.
Hello Richard and Others. Here is the quick response that I received from BitDefender Technical Support and above that my response about yet more hours lost trying to use my laptop computer following the Acronis malware attack.
Once my new Maingear computer arrives, in a few weeks, I will get that configured and loaded (no Acronis products for that computer). Once I have that done, I will strip down the Dell XPS 1645 laptop to the Dell shipping configuration, and then reinstall my programs on it. I strongly suspect that there is yet more Acronis demons lurking in it. It certainly is insidious software and I don't want to deal with any future problems where other apps are being sideswiped by Acronis malware. I would love to be able to bill Acronis for my time to date, and in the future, to get my laptop back to pristine, pre-Acronis condition.
Vlad:
Thank you for your prompt reply. So far my main computer (Win 7 HP x32) seems stable after the Revo Uninstall yesterday. Too soon to tell if the scan dates are updating since I only installed and scanned late yesterday, so BD is still showing Last Scan: Today. I will know tomorrow.
I took your advice with respect to my laptop (Win 7 HP x64). I downloaded both the x64 installer program and the BD uninstaller tool. Interestingly, before I started the uninstall, I tried launching BD. First time, I got an error message that “vsserv.exe” could not be found and started. I rebooted, and BD launched, and the scan date was correct, which it had not been for days. Decided things are unstable and that I should follow your advice, uninstall and reinstall.
I ran the BD uninstaller tool as Administrator. The uninstaller tool got to about 25% (configuration file created) and then just hung – no errors, no nothing. The progress bar was right under the three dots before “Please Wait.” No disk or CPU activity. Waited ten minutes. No result.
Tried to close the installer. Windows didn’t like that and the computer became very unstable and sluggish. Uninstaller window greyed out – Windows checking for solution. Finally got the Task Manager to load – Uninstaller not responding. Then Task Manager not responding. After about ten minutes was able to terminate all running applications via the Task Manager, but the laptop was very unstable. Tried to shut down using Windows button, but that did nothing. Ctrl-Alt-Delete did finally bring up a shut down dialogue that hung. after about five minutes, with my desktop image, but no shortcuts on it. Finally, I was forced to power down the computer and then cold-booted.
The computer did reboot, although Windows 7 HP, as expected, reported an abnormal shutdown, but I started it up normally. BD was appearing on the desk top as an icon, and in the quick launch bar with Auto-Pilot enabled. Decided not to try to launch it because components could be missing. Launched Revo Uninstaller Pro and initiated a normal uninstall (BD was showing as installed). Uninstallation went smoothly – Revo found some files and folders left, but no leftover registry keys or data.
Rebooted. Installed BD – successful. Rebooted – updated virus definitions in BD – successful.
I suspect that something that Acronis True Image Home 2012 left behind crippled the BD uninstaller tool. I can only thank my lucky stars that I learned about Revo Uninstaller Pro on the Cyberlink PowerDirector 9 forum. It has saved my bacon so many times with all of these Acronis issues, and other problems, that I would happily have paid them twice the price, or more, for that piece of software. What an outstanding utility!
I am very happy with BD as my security solution and very pleased with the excellent technical support. I will report back in the next day or two as to whether this has solved the problem, but I am optimistic that it has. Thank you.
Regards,
-Phil
From: BitDefender Customer Care
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 10:04 AM
To: Phil Campbell
Subject: Re: [Ticket ID:201111261011179] New open ticket
Dear Philip Campbell,
After analyzing the issues you've encountered with the installation process we
recommend you to follow the steps below in order to install Bitdefender 2012:
1. To make sure that there won't be any other glitches with the new
installation you will first need to remove the current version using this
uninstall tool. Access the link below and when the window with the BitDefender
file appears, please choose the "Save to disk" option.
http://www.bitdefender.com/uninstall
Save the tool on the PC, either run it (for Windows XP) or right click on it
and choose "Run as Administrator" (for Vista and 7), click on the Uninstall
button and restart the computer when the process is complete.
2. Please cancel any download in progress and any radio/video streaming before
starting to download this installation kit. We are also recommanding you to
download the installation kit directly from your internet browser, without
using an Internet Download Accelerator/Manager Software.
3. Then, download and run the latest installation kit corresponding to your
BitDefender product:
The BitDefender Total Security 2012 installation kit can be downloaded from
here:
-32bits version:
http://saf.li/97_wp
or
http://download.bitdefender.com/windows/desktop/t_security/2012/en-us/b…
-64bits version:
http://saf.li/a7_wO
or
http://download.bitdefender.com/windows/desktop/t_security/2012/en-us/b…
Once I have that done, I will strip down the Dell XPS 1645 laptop to the Dell shipping configuration, and then reinstall my programs on it.
Heh. Can't say that I blame you. I think you're probably in decent shape now that you've got your native Windows Backup and Restore back and if it's recognizing all of your storage devices, including USB. But, "once bit, twice shy" as the saying goes. Have fun with that new Maingear box. I'm waiting for Intel Ivy Z77 myself. :^)