(Non-)Answers from "Acronis Experts"?
Several weeks ago I submitted directly to Acronis [ ref:00D3Zcb.5005DTmwD:ref ] and also posted here in these forums [ http://forum.acronis.com/forum/24581 and http://forum.acronis.com/forum/24540 ] a question about some peculiar and annoying idle time activities of the TIH2012 application. Specifically, I asked about the incessant creation of empty log files in the ProgramData\Acronis\TrueImageHome\ArchiveExplorer\ folder that persists even when the application is not running and its Nonstop Backup and Sync Agent services have both been disabled.
The first answer that I received from Acronis stated that "the issue you are facing is not a common issue" and they requested a detailed system report which I then provided for all three of my TIH2012 installations under Windows XP, Vista and Win7x64.
The next answer that I received stated that "Acronis True Image Home 2012 is a very interactive backup software with the internet, it updates itself and creates update log files at the mentioned location automatically." [Emphasis added] Understandably, I think, I then became less concerned by the useless idle time logging and wasted system resources as such and more concerned by the implications of its "very interactive ... with the internet" activities. So I asked to be informed about those activities in greater detail.
The answer received in response to that follow-up query states that "we would not be able to provide you the exact information as we are still unaware that [sic] why and how the logs are created." [Emphasis added]
I am now being asked to provide them with detailed process monitor logs, but I seriously wonder whether doing so would be worth the time that effort would require from me. Frankly, it seems more like a diversionary tactic to avoid the real issue. Apparently they are vaguely aware of their product's "very interactive" internet activities, but they don't know what they do or how they do it and expect ME to provide them with the answers to my own questions about its acknowledged strange and quite disturbing behaviour!
Perhaps I may be forgiven for being somewhat skeptical about their product's safety and reliability in the circumstances, not to mention the "expertise" underlying their technical support processes. Sheesh!
Perhaps. Or maybe they'd just prefer not to reveal more openly and specifically what's its "highly interactive ... with the internet" activities are doing in the background. They certainly wouldn't be the first company to keep their frontline "techies" (and end users) in the dark about potentially embarrassing issues. Either way it's not a great confidence builder so far as I'm concerned.
Hello all,
Thank you for taking time to contact us.
Richard,
I have added a new case to our bug queue, the number is ATIHIIOXII-6515
Thank you.
My experience is is that if you provide the reports that Acronis asks for they try to find solutions or locate the relevent bug and fix it. sometimes the problem is rare do to an odd interaction with some other software but they will still try to find the prob and fix it. IT's hardest when a new version is out because the tech team has a lot on its plate.
@Oleg: Thanks. It's good at least to know that the issue has been placed on the "official" agenda. It's the currently unknown implications that concern me at least as much as the "bug" itself. In other words, is it really just a relatively innocuous "bug" or some "phone home" feature introduced at the last (post beta) minute at the behest of the marketeers and gone wildly astray.
@Scott: Understood. But I don't think were dealing with a rare interaction in this case. I see it with ALL of my installations under three separate OSes and apparently, based on their second reply, they've also seen it for themselves. I suppose I was somewhat annoyed by the apparently "circular progress" of the responses: first denying the problem's commonality, then acknowledging it and attributing it to internet interactivity, and finally saying, in effect, that they were "unaware" of the nature of that activity.
It just seemed to me that, having thus identified and confirmed the problem as reported, they were then asking me to do the work that they should be doing themselves to pin it down. Surely they're no less capable than I to monitor and examine the processes involved and they're the ones collecting the financial rewards. I have my own competing priorities.
Hello all,
Richard,
Right now I was notified that we are planning to fix the encountered issue for the nearest released build.
Thank you.
Several statements in this thread raise as many questions as answer:
1. Nonstop Backup and Sync Agent services
2. very interactive backup software with the internet
3. naware that [sic] why and how the logs are created
4. we are planning to fix the encountered issue for the nearest released build
Services: Looked through my remaining install of 2012 and can’t see neither the nonstop backup nor sync agent services active under Win7x64. Now, I have never attempted to use the sync features, so are these services only activated when you setup a sync partnership?
Very interactive backup software with the internet: Has been raised by more than one forum member and in several guises. One explanation has been floated around license verification. Another that information about jobs are replicated to the internet to allow external partnerships. Still another has been that log information is periodically transmitted. With a final being install data for marketing, license management and automated updating. With the recent scandals regarding undocumented data collection (Apple, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Intuit, etc), think that Acronis should document exactly what is being passed. All major apps allow folks to "opt-out" of data collection.
Log files: How can log files be unknown?
Nearest released build: Is this the unknown logs, the data collection, the services or something else?
@oleg: Thanks for your follow-up. Much appreciated. You might want to ensure that your frontline support staff are fully aware of this and other such identified issues. There would seem to be some room for communications improvements in that regard and the resulting gaps can be quite offputting for end users (like myself) who tend to expect authoritative responses from Acronis support personnel.
@hhansard: You should see both the Acronis Nonstop Backup Service and the Acronis Sync Agent Service listed in the services section of your Windows Managment Interface along with the Acronis Scheduler2 Service. Normally, all of those services are set for automatic start-up ("Start"=dword:00000002 in the corresponding registry entries) during the TIH installation process, but they don't actually do much unless and until the are configured in the TIH application itself. If not needed, you can use the WMI interface to change their service start-up settings to "manual" or "disabled." The manual setting allows them to be started on demand as may be required within the main application.
==> Acronis Nonstop Backup Service and the Acronis Sync Agent Service
Taken care of -- I killed them awhile ago -- just forgot... That was the point -- don't use this feature, so don't want the services. Really trying to limit what is running to only what is needed -- same for any app.
Was this issue fixed in a later build?
Yes. At least it appears to have been fixed so far as my own Build 6131 installation shows, along with the open file handles issue that seemed related.
Where is this build "6131" with the fix? Just checked I have 5545, checked for updates. it said yes, went for download and install, after a while a screen showed up about installation and it stated I have the latest version - checked again from that screen, and again am told I have the latest version. Nothing seem to have been downloaded nor installed. Started ATIH2012 (with PlusPack) version again and it shows build 5545.
And yes I still have all those log files being created, in fact two types.
1. In the C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Logs I found among other logs, logs relating to NSB, all identical accept for the date in the file name and in the text of the logs. - These files started when I upgraded to the 2012 version on Nov. 11, 2011.
I use Acronis only to created images of my O/S drive not any other backup services. Is there something I can change in my setup?
2. In the C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\ArchiveExplorer loge files with are all identical. Thousends of them. I understand from the various comments above, this type of log was to be eliminated in build 6131 which seems to be not available for me. Is that perhpas related to my having also the Plus Pack add on? Have these something to do with their Customer Experience Program to which I did NOT agaree? -- too much unwanted background action on the computer already. LOL.
Where is this build "6131" with the fix? Just checked I have 5545, checked for updates. it said yes, went for download and install, after a while a screen showed up about installation and it stated I have the latest version - checked again from that screen, and again am told I have the latest version. Nothing seem to have been downloaded nor installed. Started ATIH2012 (with PlusPack) version again and it shows build 5545.
And yes I still have all those log files being created, in fact two types.
1. In the C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Logs I found among other logs, logs relating to NSB, all identical accept for the date in the file name and in the text of the logs. - These files started when I upgraded to the 2012 version on Nov. 11, 2011.
I use Acronis only to created images of my O/S drive not any other backup services. Is there something I can change in my setup?
2. In the C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\ArchiveExplorer loge files with are all identical. Thousends of them. I understand from the various comments above, this type of log was to be eliminated in build 6131 which seems to be not available for me. Is that perhpas related to my having also the Plus Pack add on? Have these something to do with their Customer Experience Program to which I did NOT agaree? -- too much unwanted background action on the computer already. LOL.
autoupdates is definitely not working correctly for some folks. on the bright side, you might be better off with 6131 than6154.
got to acrinis.com; log in; goto product updates, go to prior builds and down;oad 6131 and install it.
Thanks for the reply. Not sure how my post was duplicated LOL. I have three questions:
1) Why do you recommend the 6131 update rather than the 6154? (doesn't 6154 also include 6131? Or does one have to upDATE in "order" [running presently build 5545])?
2) Downloading both the basic and PP version I suppose I first need to install the bigger basic update and then the smaller PP update.
3) Based on the file sizes, both files seem to contain the respective "full" products. When upgrading from 2011 to 2012 I was told "As you want to install upgrade version of your Acronis True Image Home 2011, I would request you to uninstall Acronis True Image Home 2011 and Acronis True Image Home 2011 Plus Pack before you install Acronis True Image Home 2012 upgrade. After that you will be able to install Acronis True Image Home 2012 Plus Pack upgrade." Does that also apply to the "upDATE" or only to an "upGRADE", i.e. do I just run the respective update exe files?
Thanks in advance.
Well, that's a good question and as the line goes in the film Risky Business, "Yes, no. Maybe."
It shouldn't apply to the update, but then it shouldn't apply to the upgrade either. In any event, having the plus pack can make it a bit trickier as it's a diff set of drivers coming out/going in. If it was me I'd take the meet-me-half-way tack:
make a backup before doing anything
uninstall old plus pack,
install new ati udate,
install new plus pack
If you want to be industrious or if the above didn't work, you can take the all-or-nothing tack: unistall plus pack and ati, then install sti and then the plus but this probably won't be necessary.
re 6131 vs 6154, this is my own prejudice based on my trying to get 6154 to work on my machine and some other users' comments. I didn't get lockups with 6131. Your mileage may vary. If you have a backup or your current disk image, you can follow the I-migt-be-dreaming course: you can try 6154, if it works okay, fine. If not, restore and then unistall and install 6131 and see if you have better luck with that. I belive 6154 was supposed to address some driver issues, which it presumably does, but introduces a few new issues of its own.
A shorter version of I-might-be-dreaming curse is the I-might-be-napping method: make a backup also after you unintall at/pp, so if you have to remove 6154 to intsall 6131, you can do it with a single restore instead of a restore and uninstall.
Thanks for your well put reply. I never install major updates without taking an image and your comment as to PP are certainly very valid.
The only instruction I could find for both ATIH and the PP are: "The installation procedure is straightforward. Please, run the downloaded executable file and follow the instructions."
Not even at least for the PP, a note as to whether one first needs to update the ATIH and then the PP updates. Based on those instructions I could do either and certainly without any un-installing. Perhaps those messages come later when running the exe file (i.e. part of "follow the instructions". If not uses may certainly run into unecessary problems. May be the reason their site states that they are presently very busy. LOL. And not every user takes an image for an update.
Earlier in this thread as a message to hhansard was the suggestion to use WMI to change 3 services from automatic to disabled or manual. I'm in the same boot.
However, I run into a problem which may or may not be related to this. Since the Acronis Scheduler2 Service and the TrueImageMonitor.exe are started via the Startup menu, I had used Norton 360 to change them to a "delayed start". As Acronis has no preference menu, I used WMI to change Acronis Nonstop Backup Service , Acronis Sync Agent Service and Acronis Scheduler2 Service to Manual (had forgotten that I changed the latter to delayed in Norton 360).
Anyway restarting the system to verify that those services were not running I received a message from the Intel Rapid Storage Technology 9.6.0.1014 that my Disk on Port 3 had failed. This Raid 0 set on ports 2 and 3 containing my Data Backup and Sundry partitions is automatically used at startup to copy any new or changed files from my Data partition (on another separate Raid set - two SSD's) to the Data Backup partition (the reason I do not use the Acronis NSA method). Anyway, I had no problems to copy both partitions to another drive or to open a file from my data backup partition notwithstanding the "failed" report for one of the drives. And, rebooting again, I received the same error (see attached SystemReport.txt file). Thinking that perhaps that the duplicate change for one Service (Norton to delayed and WMI to manual) could have been a reason, (Norton still showed as set for delayed) I reversed those 3 WMI changes. Upon reboot I also used the Raid software to set that disk to normal and it worked. Various reboots, no such errors.
Now that disk error occurring at that particular time may well have been co-incidental.
Anyway, I have an associated question, 1) would it be preferably to set those 3 services to "delayed" rather than "manual" and 2) what does the TrueImage Monitor.Exe actually do. Does it need to be running all the time? (e.g. I have set Acronis to create an imange of my O/S drive on every 1st Sunday of a month, and of course use it to manually to create an image when installing major updates)
You can set nonstop/sync backup and try and decide to manual startup -- You can even try disabling them if you don't use nonstop or trya and decide, but this seems to cause probs for ati on some machines. The other stuff you should leave alone as installed. Schedele and monitor are needed to run manual and sceduled backups. If you don't want them running, then just unisntall ati and use the bootcd for backups and recovery--you can't get any cleaner than that.
Well, that's a good question and as the line goes in the film Risky Business, "Yes, no. Maybe."
It shouldn't apply to the update, but then it shouldn't apply to the upgrade either. In any event, having the plus pack can make it a bit trickier as it's a diff set of drivers coming out/going in. If it was me I'd take the meet-me-half-way tack:
make a backup before doing anything
uninstall old plus pack,
install new ati udate,
install new plus packIf you want to be industrious or if the above didn't work, you can take the all-or-nothing tack: unistall plus pack and ati, then install sti and then the plus but this probably won't be necessary.
re 6131 vs 6154, this is my own prejudice based on my trying to get 6154 to work on my machine and some other users' comments. I didn't get lockups with 6131. Your mileage may vary. If you have a backup or your current disk image, you can follow the I-migt-be-dreaming course: you can try 6154, if it works okay, fine. If not, restore and then unistall and install 6131 and see if you have better luck with that. I belive 6154 was supposed to address some driver issues, which it presumably does, but introduces a few new issues of its own.
A shorter version of I-might-be-dreaming curse is the I-might-be-napping method: make a backup also after you unintall at/pp, so if you have to remove 6154 to intsall 6131, you can do it with a single restore instead of a restore and uninstall.
Well, that's a good question and as the line goes in the film Risky Business, "Yes, no. Maybe."
It shouldn't apply to the update, but then it shouldn't apply to the upgrade either. In any event, having the plus pack can make it a bit trickier as it's a diff set of drivers coming out/going in. If it was me I'd take the meet-me-half-way tack:
make a backup before doing anything
uninstall old plus pack,
install new ati udate,
install new plus packIf you want to be industrious or if the above didn't work, you can take the all-or-nothing tack: unistall plus pack and ati, then install sti and then the plus but this probably won't be necessary.
re 6131 vs 6154, this is my own prejudice based on my trying to get 6154 to work on my machine and some other users' comments. I didn't get lockups with 6131. Your mileage may vary. If you have a backup or your current disk image, you can follow the I-migt-be-dreaming course: you can try 6154, if it works okay, fine. If not, restore and then unistall and install 6131 and see if you have better luck with that. I belive 6154 was supposed to address some driver issues, which it presumably does, but introduces a few new issues of its own.
A shorter version of I-might-be-dreaming curse is the I-might-be-napping method: make a backup also after you unintall at/pp, so if you have to remove 6154 to intsall 6131, you can do it with a single restore instead of a restore and uninstall.
Well to-day I took an image with build 5545, then uninstalled PP5545, then another image. I then updated ATIH from 5545 to 6154 which was succeeded. Trying to install PP6154 run into Serial number rejection so I tried to install PP5545 but it went through a check and downlading of 6154 running again into the Serial number rejection. When I purchased the upGRADE from 2011 I also purchased another set of ATIH and PP for my wife's next PC to be purchased later this year int he spring. Trying to enter the old 2011 PP S/N in addittion to the PP UpGRADE S/N I inadvertantly copied my wife's New PP version S/N and it proceeded with installation with out a problem. I have written to Acronis and trust they can correct my installation to my PP upGRADE S/N so that I can still use the NEW PP 2012 SN for my wives PC when purchased.
So in rectrospect, i guess one should not un-install the previous build PP when upDATING to avoid the S/N problem, but your comments made a lot of sence, particularly in line with the written instructions I received with upDATING from 2011 to 2012.
I will post the outcome once I receive a reply from Acronis.
Oops my qouting was duplicated. Don't know how that happened. Sorry
Anton was able to resolve my issue by contacting him though this forum. Thank you.
Further to my previous post here is some feedback.
- Have not heard back regarding the use of a wrong S/N (I erroneously mentioned my wife's PP S/N rather the her still unused ATIH S/N)
- The updated versions (ATIH & PP) to 6154 seem to work ok on my system. Noted that the separate line of Acronis Sync Agent5583 is no longer listed (don't use it anyway) under installed application but it's still under Services, thus assume it's now part of ATIH or PP.
- Have set both Acronis Nonstop Backup Service and Acronis Sync Agent Service to Manual under Services. But as soon as I start ATIH Acronis Sync Agent Service is started. Set it to disabled, it's not being started. ATIH starts o.k. and I assume it will functions as to Imaages. - not yet tested.
- Noted that after the update those small idendical log files no longer are generated numerous times each day, but are replaced by larger log files each time I start ATIH, whether Sync Agent Service is in Manual or Disabled. Latest file enclosed. (some previous files were even larger) I assume it's related to the some offsite back-up service to which I never supscribed and am not interested in. -Is there a way to totally disable this without loosing the "Image taking/restore" function, which is the only service I am interest in?
- Could the other "error" (unreadable) listed in this log file have something to to with item #1 above.
Acronis SyncAgent and NSB can be disabled so long as you don't use Sync, T&D and NSB.
Online backup might check on startup if you have an OLB account, but I believe if you don't 'login' it doesn't check.