SOLVED- ATI 2011 6597: really confusing incremental/full management
Today I tried to achieve the following:
- A: full backup of C:\ on an external disk, weekly, no clean up
- B: incremental backup of C:\ on an internal disk, running every 2 hours, deleting all version chains older than a week.
I managed to schedule this, but when the 2 backups ran, they got mixed up. I ran A first and I was expecting B to run first as a full backup. It ran as incremental.
Then I checked the versions of A and B, and all versions appear on each timeline!
Meaning, when I looked at A versions, I saw the incrementals of B as well, but all with the A task name.
When I looked at the B versions, I sall the full A version and the B incrementals, all under the B task name.
The 2 backups were merged together. I would have understood if B would base its increments on A full backup, but each should keep its name. It doesn't seem normal that A shows incremental backup. Go figure!
Given that, I didn't trust the the clean up of B wouldn't erase A versions, so I simply gave up for the time being.
Yana,
Trust me I would like to help. At this point, however, I have other issues to tackle. On top of the problem I described, I discovered:
- I could not run backups+validations, so I had to schedule validation separately,
- I could not run differential backups, because the program would get stuck trying to consolidate although consolidation was not set.
After trying to fix these, I came to the conclusion that it is highly risky to use "edit settings" and/or to set "default settings" for a backup.
At this point, I decided to zap all the tasks, uninstall Acronis 2011, use the cleanup utility and reinstall the product.
I am still trying to have a simple differential backup run reliably and I am not there yet!
So, sorry, I don't have the time to go back and experiment more on the double mixed-up backups thing. To work around my problem, I just decided to use the native Windows imaging backup as a redundant backup. The situation I described is pretty straightforward and anybody with a test computer should be able to reproduce it.
Pat L,
A couple random thoughts.
1. Setup for Backup A for full backup should not be an issue. This can be scheduled weekly and configured on how many full backups you wish to retain; also whether you want to additionally retain the original copy.
2. Incrementals: This needs clarification and possible modification.
How many incrementals were you planning on creating before recreating a new full. Is the "every 2 hours" to be over a 24/7 period? or over about 4 per day,etc? My reason for asking is due to the characteristics of incremental backups. An incremental backup set consists of one full plus x number of incrementals. If you have 25 incrementals and incremental backup #3 is corrupt (not unusual), then backups 4-25 are useless. So, for safety's sake, it is wise to keep the number incrementals to a smaller number and who's to say what that number can safely be.
Perhaps you might want to consider using the differential type backups instead of the incremental. Then, in order to restore, all you need is the base full backup and alternately any one of the subsequent differentials.
Depending upon what data is being backed up every 2 hours for backup #b, you may find that an alternate method might work better such as using a plain Windows copy type function to copy the changes to another folder or partition. A free program such Karen's Replicator could automate the copy function so only the files changed would be copied after the first full copy was created. This would work quite well if you want to maintain a scheduled copy of a limited number of folders,( or even the entire disk) etc. It is also very flexible. If you have the time, you might spend some reading time on index item #12 found by clicking my signature index below for some backup ideas used by others.
Acronis also offers nonstop backup as another alternative.
If you wish to schedule backup "b" using either incremental or differential backups, I would suggest it be a separate task stored in its own folder. The first backup would be a full backup with the remaining backups to be incrementals, or differentials(preferred)
3. You are correct about avoiding editing tasks. If you must edit, then be sure and only click OK button from the backups scheme tab setting. Do not click the OK button from the advanced or notificatins tab headings. I avoid editing but I have found that I can sometimes successfully edit a task by only clicking the OK button from the backuup schemes settings are displayed. Some backup settings can be retained by using the "save as default" but not all. For example, I can set a password and enable validatio to run after the backups. These settings will be retained as the default--if I choose. But if I set the validation to not be scheduled and save it as a default, this setting will not save and the default returns to monthly. This obviously is a problem.
If you wish to pursue this further, you can respond and advise more details about the number of incremental or differential backups that might be created. I do suggest that you use the custom backup scheme with automatic cleanup.
Great advice. Thank you for your thoughts.
1- The full backup A was running OK. It got fused in the timeline view of the backup explorer with the incremental backup B that was setup to another destination. Probably a bug. I read somewhere that Acronis can set up the incremental portions of a backup to a destination different that the full. This is NOT what I was trying to do. I was trying to have 2 different backups of the same data. I decided to use Windows imaging in parallel with Acronis to achieve this.
Thank you for sharing the replicator. Seems similar to SyncToy, which I am using.
2- Yep. I understand the risk of incremental. I was trying to have an imaging equivalent of the non-stop backup with the B frequent backup. I cannot trust non-stop backup for the system disk, just like I don't trust file-based backups in this case, or the windows restore. With the Acronis/Windows combination, I think I am fine. I am currently just trying to replace the full backup A with a differential set of backup for the C system, with a full after 7 differential and see what reliability I get in the differential versions over time.
Thanks again for jumping. I am learning a lot about imaging and backup here. Just wish there were fewer bugs. I still cannot run a validation after the backup in the new build...
Pat L,
I read somewhere that Acronis can set up the incremental portions of a backup to a destination different that the full
Not true. All files in the backup chain must be in the same folder or location. If the base is missing, none can be mounted or restored.
A backup chain/set consists of the base full plus x incrementals with none of the incrementals missing or currupt.
If differential rather than incremental, then all you need is the base full plus any single differential in order to have a restorable archive.
Don't forget. If your system disk fails, the type of backup that offers the most restore possibilities (with the least hassle) is the backup which includes everything on the disk which means all partitions. This is especially true with Win-7 or Vista where many installs have separate non-lettered boot partitions at the very beginning of the disk.
Attached is an example of a custom backup scheme what I have successfully used. You can change the figures or the options but be sure and observe the save suggestions listed at the top of the attachment. This task has valiidation enabled after the task and the monthly backup option is set to "do not schedule." Using XP Pro-sp3 with 2011-6597.
If you use more than one task, have each directed to its own storage folder.
Thanks again. I like the set up you have and I am trying to run something really similar. I turned off the validation after backup because this causes the backup to get stuck and not to terminate.
About the multiple destination thing, have a look at the help file here:
Backing up Data > Backup to various places
You can save backup versions to different destinations by changing the backup destination when editing the settings of a selected backup. For example, after you save the initial full backup to an external USB hard drive, you can change the backup destination to a USB stick by editing the backup settings. The subsequent incremental or differential backups will be written to the USB stick.
How do you understand this then?
Yes, your posting does contradict what I wrote. TI switched to the new data base control of its backups in recent issues so I could be all wet. I will have to test their statements. If you wanted to validate the backup or restore an incremental/diferential (stored in two places), the first question TI would ask is "where is......"
The statement is also unclear as to whether the first backup written to the USB stick would be a another full or incremental/differential.
If you attempt to validate or restore (backups stored in different locations), TI will have to either know where the base is or you will have to point TI to the base backup.
Regardless of what they have written, my personal preference would be to keep each backup chain complete in the same folder but it may no longer be a requirement.
I will need to test this further.
Hey,
I agree with you that this is surprising, and I am not sure I understand the value of it. I am guessing this is the source of my problems when I try to backup the same data at different frequencies.
I am trying to do this now by using different task names and different destination folders. Clearly when you use the same task name OR the same destination, the backups get merged.
Pat L,
In addition to your posting #6 from 2011 user manual section 3.8, I found this in the 2009 user manaul which is when the Metafile database was released. This certainly does confirm that the informtion I provided was not the most up-to-date. While this offers flexibility, should the database gets corrupt or deleted, then the locations keys are no longer available. For me, I think I will continue to keep my backups together and avoid a lot of potential hassle trying to find them if they were to be scattered around various storage locations.
5.6 Archive to various places
You can save full, incremental and differential backups of the same data entity (for example,
a partition, disk, E-mail, Applications settings) to various places – almost anywhere you like.)
5.6.1 Why you need this feature
The previous versions of Acronis True Image Home could save incremental or differential backups only in the same place (a folder, disk, backup location, etc.) as the initial full backup. Usually this is not a problem but sometimes this could be difficult or simply impossible to achieve, for example, due to using up all the available disk space. Of course, Acronis True Image Home provided means for alleviating this problem – it could manage backups in the Acronis Secure Zone and in backup locations and was able to automatically delete the oldest backups freeing the space it needed for new ones. This is still true for the Acronis Secure Zone. Such an approach worked just fine in most cases, however, there could be exceptions. For example, you saved a full backup of your system disk to an external USB hard disk drive and it occupied almost all the disk. If later you would like to make an incremental backup of that disk while keeping the initial full one, this was simply impossible.
Also, you could assign a meaningful name only to a full backup. Incremental and differential backups were named automatically by adding sequential numbers to the full backup name. You could add a comment with a description of the backup while configuring a backup task in the wizard, but in order to read this description you needed to launch Acronis True Image Home and select the appropriate tib archive in the Restore wizard.
There was one more drawback. Suppose you were making a large backup to a hard disk and after an hour you got a message warning you that the disk is full. You could try to free some disk space but if this was impossible, you were forced to find some other location for the backup and start it anew wasting a lot of time as a result.5.6.2 What makes it work
For this feature to operate, Acronis True Image Home maintains an internal database containing all the metadata information on the operations performed with tib files (such as creation, consolidation, verification, and so on), as well as on their names, sizes, time stamps, physical paths, archive types (full, incremental, differential), slice and volume IDs, and some "housekeeping" information required for program operation. The database is updated after each operation with tib files. Acronis True Image Home also adds to tib files metadata uniquely identifying the file. The last volume of a slice related to a certain backup entity contains additional information on the IDs of all the preceding volumes and backups (tib files).In other words, thanks to this metadata information, Acronis True Image Home always knows where, when, and how it backed up your data and where it can find the data you want to restore.
By the way, the metadata information database gives you an additional benefit. Now you can assign any name you wish to incremental and differential backups. This makes it easier to find the required backup archive when you need to restore some data.
5.6.3 Using backup to various places
Now Acronis True Image Home offers much greater flexibility. You can save full, incremental and differential backups to different places including a network share, CD/DVD, USB stick, as well as any local internal or external hard drive. You cannot use the Acronis Secure Zone as one of the places for storing a part of backups belonging to the same backup "chain", because such backups may be automatically deleted during automatic backups consolidation in the Acronis Secure Zone. As a result, the backup chain will be corrupted. In addition, the Archive to various places feature does not work with FTP servers.One more useful aspect of this feature is its ability to split backups "on-the-fly". Suppose you perform a backup to a hard disk and in the middle of the backup process Acronis True Image Home finds out that the disk, to which you are backing up, does not have enough free space for completing the backup. The program displays a message warning you that the disk is full.
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5.6.3
As was already mentioned, you can save full and incremental or differential backups to different locations. For example, you can save the initial full backup to an external USB hard drive, and then burn the subsequent incremental backups (or differential backups that are an even better choice) to CDs or DVDs. It is also possible to save such backups to a network share. If you have saved backups belonging to the same backup "chain" to various places, Acronis True Image Home may prompt you for the locations of previous backups during data recovery, in the case when the selected backup archive does not contain the files you want to restore (or contains only a part of them).
I solved the weird merging backup issue by having 2 different tasks, with different names, backing up to 2 different folder destinations.
I run a full backup on a weekly basis that I keep for 3 months and a differential backup on a daily basis that restarts every week and that I keep for 2 weeks.