Seeking Advice: Grabbing XP Data & Moving To Windows 7 64 Bit
I am using Acronis At Home 2011.
My plan is to take an image backup of the XP. Everything (programs and data) is located on the C drive. Let's call this "ImageXP_CDrive." Then take ImageXP_CDrive to the new laptop Windows 7 and mount ImageXP_CDrive. From there, I plan to just drag and drop the files where I want them. I really want the ability to rearrange the data on the new computer. Thus, the Image Backup and Mounting option appeals to me because it is easy to quickly arrange the data as I see fit.
For example, on the XP, there was "My Documents" whereas on Windows 7 it is just "Documents." One concern I have is the dreaded "File-Level Security Settings." Please see page 67 of the PDF ATH2011 manual.
Supposedly "these settings relate only to the file/folder backups". However, I had a bad experience with this problem an Acronis version or two ago.
If I follow my above procedure, will the files be locked on the new Windows 7 computer?
Any advice or guidance is appreciated.
If your files are *not* encrypted using Windows EFS, you can only face permissions issues in the worst case (files properties > Security). With an administrator account on your Windows 7 machine, you will be able to correct these easily. You can try to uncheck "preserve file security settings in backups" in the backup options if you use a *file* backup to mitigate this inconvenience. There is no such option for *disk* backups.
For example, if you had set your permissions so that only User A on the XP machine can access the files, you would need to use administrator privileges on Win 7 to change the permissions to full control (for example) for User B on the Win 7 machine.
I am going to assume the worst and assume that file to that user are only visible to that user. And it was administrator privileges that I had problems with before with a prior version of True Image. Huge, ugly problems. Eventually, I ended up using Robocopy to copy the files from the tib backup on an external hard drive to the computer. I want to avoid that scenario at all costs.
In prior versions of True Image you were able to globally select "preserve or not preserve file security settings in backups." This setting applied to both disk and file backups. I trust that is no longer the case?
Should we assume that a disk backup has the Security Settings intact? That is, preserved?
If so, then I will perform a file backup. My reason for wanting to staying away from a file backup is that you can't mount file backups. So you can't drag and drop easily.
I trust with some effort, I can direct the files to where I want them to go using a file backup.
If you have files encrypted using Windows EFS on XP ( the "encrypt content to secure data" box is checked in Windows file properties > advanced), then you have to first decrypt the files using XP, and then back the files up. That's the simplest way. You could also export your EFS certificate from your XP User A account to a .pfx file and then reimport it into your new User B. Check out http://netsecurity.about.com/od/quicktips/qt/efs.htm. This second option is more complicated.
If you are using bitlocker or some other disk encryption mechanism, that's a different story. http://kb.acronis.com/content/1649
To my knowledge, there is no encryption scheme.
Given my description and concerns, would you simply proceed with a file backup and go from there? If so, I trust it is reasonably easy to direct the files to new locations. That is, from "C:\users\ABC\My Documents" to "C:\users\ABC\Documents"?
Am I likely to face permission issues with a disk backup? Can I set the Security Settings globally? My guesses to those two questions are as follows: Yes, I am likely to face permission issues, and, no, I can't set the Security Settings globally. I would appreciate confirmation, rejection, or clarification.
Thank you for your assistance, especially during the Holiday Season.
In 2011, for a file backup, the default is for the backup to preserve the original file security settings. This way, when you restore the file, the files have the same security settings as the originals and don't take the security setting of the folder you restore to.
I am not sure this is what you want.
You would typically set the security settings of the documents folder in Win 7 as a whole, and then assume all the files inside have these security settings. So, if you use a file backup, to achieve this I would uncheck this option.
To restore from a file backup with 2011, you can double-click on the TIB file, and use Windows Explorer to drag and drop your files. So it is similar to mounting a disk image. When you drag and drop, the files will take the security settings of the destination folder. When you use restore from ATI, you have the option to preserve the file security settings at that point also (checked by default). Unchecking at backup time or at restore time will make the file takt the file security settings of the destination folder.
If you use a disk backup, like you are suggesting in your first post, you could mount the image in Win7 and simply copy the files where you want. At that point, the files will take the security settings of the destination folder.
Since taking a disk image will include all the programs and windows files of XP, it will take a tad longer and be bigger, but it will be complete.
A file backup will be smaller, but you will have to make sure you include all the files you want/need, including:
- in the user's Application Data folder where, for example, you have the database of Windows Media Player, iTunes, Windows Live photo gallery or the settings of your favorite app, ...
- the Public user document and settings folder.
In 2011, for a file backup, the default is for the backup to preserve the original file security settings. This way, when you restore the file, the files have the same security settings as the originals and don't take the security setting of the folder you restore to.
I am not sure this is what you want.
You would typically set the security settings of the documents folder in Win 7 as a whole, and then assume all the files inside have these security settings. So, if you use a file backup, to achieve this I would uncheck this option.
Pat, I've been down this path once before. As a brief recap, I backed up everything on my C drive (programs and data) using a disk copy with security settings kept (prior version of ATIH). I then reformatted the drive, reinstalled Vista, reinstalled the software from scratch, and transferred over the data. Because it was a new installation of Vista, the security settings were no longer applicable. My data was locked. Simple solutions of tweaking the folder permission and security settings did not work. I then tried recreating the disk backup with security settings NOT kept. The result was the same.
I spent several days going back and forth with Acronis Tech Support. Finally, Acronis assigned an expert technician to my case. When spoke on the phone while we worked through my issues for about six hours. The solution was, roughly, as follows: 1) Delete all data from computer including folders; 2) Put back folders such as Documents; 3) Mount the disk backup; and then 4) Use Robocopy (line command) to deliberately bring over the data from the from disk backup while not bringing over the security settings.
=======================================
So the final workflow is:
1) login as your normal user
2) mount the TIB (rightclick on the tib -> mount)
3) start the command prompt as administrator
4) icacls C:\Users\KHS\ /grant KHS:(OI)(CI)F /t
(this will take care of everything, including appdata and Documents, downloads, pictures, etc.)
5) robocopy K:\Users\KHS\Documents\ C:\Users\KHS\Documents\ /COPY:ADT /DCOPY:T /E
...
...
In case you have permission problems again:
...
1) start the command prompt as administrator
2) icacls C:\Users\KHS\ /grant KHS:(OI)(CI)F /t
3) icacls C:\Users\KHS\* /reset /t
==========================================
Even now, my data is not fully restored and likely never will be. My data files themselves all have the correct saved dates. However, the folders inside of my Documents (Music et al.,) all have the date of when I created the Acronis Disk Backup, not when the folders were originally created. The expert tech and I never did figure out why that happened or how to correct it.
I will not do this process again.
This whole mess took place in May (created Disk Backup) and June of 2009 (resolved in mid June).
From reading your text, you appear to suggest using a file backup with the security switch cleared--that is, don't copy over the security setting.
To restore from a file backup with 2011, you can double-click on the TIB file, and use Windows Explorer to drag and drop your files. So it is similar to mounting a disk image. When you drag and drop, the files will take the security settings of the destination folder. When you use restore from ATI, you have the option to preserve the file security settings at that point also (checked by default). Unchecking at backup time or at restore time will make the file takt the file security settings of the destination folder.
I am unclear here. Are you suggesting that I do a file backup, clear the security setting, double click the tib file to begin to restore the backup with the switch cleared again (redundancy)?
If you use a disk backup, like you are suggesting in your first post, you could mount the image in Win7 and simply copy the files where you want. At that point, the files will take the security settings of the destination folder.
That wasn't my experience with an earlier version of Acronis (then current version in mid 2009). When I did that before, the data files kept their initial security settings and the files were locked. There were no simple commands to unlock the folders and directories.
Does Disc Backup not copy over the security settings now? Has the process changed? When I was using the then current version in 2009, a disc copy definitely copied over the security settings. This information was confirmed by the expert technician. I exchanged a few emails with him afterward.
With the new interface, it is hard to know what processes are the same and which have been changed,
Since taking a disk image will include all the programs and windows files of XP, it will take a tad longer and be bigger, but it will be complete.
Size doesn't matter to me. And an extra hour, if that, of backup time is of no consequence. I don't need the programs as I am reinstalling all the software on a new Windows 7 64 bit computer. I am just after the data.
Earlier you mentioned that I can simply double click on the tib file and it will open up in a file browser. From there, I can drag and drop. While I prefer to mount a drive because a) drag and drop, and b) everything is there somewhere, I am fearful of the SIDs being brought over.
A file backup will be smaller, but you will have to make sure you include all the files you want/need, including:
- in the user's Application Data folder where, for example, you have the database of Windows Media Player, iTunes, Windows Live photo gallery or the settings of your favorite app, ...
- the Public user document and settings folder.
I am not overly fussed about not bringing everything over. If I forget something, I can just go back and get it. Two different computers. I believe I just need to grab My Documents, Music, Photos and Outlook file. Instead, perhaps, I can just grab everything under "C:\Users\Name". Then I should have it all. I am not worried about the settings for applications. The applications will be reinstalled and reconfigured.
I realize that I am overly fussy about this stuff. I just want to avoid agonizing set of frustrations while making things easy as possible.
From our conversation, I am inclined to go with the file backup with the security setting cleared. With the setting cleared during the backup creation, I shouldn't have to worry about it on restore. I should be home free.
Again, just for my education, do you know if a disk backup still captures the security settings? I am assuming that ATIH 2011 is similar to ATIH used during 2009 and it does capture security settings. And, is there a global switch for security settings?
Thank you for your assistance.
Kevin,
For disk backups, there is no file-level security settings in 2011, only for file backups. Of course, disk backups preserve the security setting by default in the backup.
For File backups, clearing the "preserve security settings" can be done at backup time or at restore time, this is equivalent. At restore time, you can also choose the date/time stamp for your files. Note: when I say restore time, I mean using the restore function of ATI, *not* drag an drop from the TIB using explorer.
From my experience with 2011, using drag and drop from a mounted disk image *or* from a file backup TIB using explorer) results in the file taking the security settings of the destination folder, regardless of the file backup options.
Given your concerns:
- why don't try first with file backup, clearing the option? if this doesn't work, you can still try a disk image...
- I am wondering why you just don't copy your c:\Users\ folder to a USB disk and then copy the files back on your Win 7 machine. This is what I did when I upgraded my system to Win 7 ultimate + SSD and it worked like a charm. I had a system backup also available, but copying files was just simpler.
Kevin,
For disk backups, there is no file-level security settings in 2011, only for file backups. Of course, disk backups preserve the security setting by default in the backup.
We're both in agreement on that. Which is a good thing.
For File backups, clearing the "preserve security settings" can be done at backup time or at restore time, this is equivalent. At restore time, you can also choose the date/time stamp for your files. Note: when I say restore time, I mean using the restore function of ATI, *not* drag an drop from the TIB using explorer.
Sorry Pat, can you please elaborate a bit. I want the "original" date/time stamp for files and folders. For example, "E:\Users\Donald\Documents\Taxes" should have the original date, time stamp. If I drag and drop from the TIB using explorer, what happens? I gather from your message that I must use the restore function where I am given options as to the date/time stamp?
From my experience with 2011, using drag and drop from a mounted disk image *or* from a file backup TIB using explorer) results in the file taking the security settings of the destination folder, regardless of the file backup options.
The Mount Disk Image process has then changed from two years ago. Which, in my view, is a good thing.
Given your concerns:
- why don't try first with file backup, clearing the option? if this doesn't work, you can still try a disk image...
- I am wondering why you just don't copy your c:\Users\ folder to a USB disk and then copy the files back on your Win 7 machine. This is what I did when I upgraded my system to Win 7 ultimate + SSD and it worked like a charm. I had a system backup also available, but copying files was just simpler.
Regard to wondering why I don't just use a USB disk? That might be an option; however, the largest usb disk kicking around is something like 8 gb, which is big enough for most of my needs, but not necessarily transfering complete user data from one drive to another. Moreover, I understand that a USB drive is limited to a certain file size. There are some very large Photoshop files that might surpass this file size limit.
Yes, I am inclined to use the file backup with the switch cleared. Again, can you please elaborate on the "restore" versus "drag and drop" for keeping the original date and time stamps. I am not well versed in ATIH 2011 interface yet, so if you can direct me to the restore function, that would be helpful too.
Thank you for your patience. I realize that I am being nitpicky as I map out my plan of attack. I just want to avoid repeating my prior bad experience. Again, thank you.
Kevin,
Yes, only the restore option from within ATI will show you the option to preserve the security settings and to choose whether you want the date in the backup or of the restore time.
I didn't mean a USB flash drive, but an external disk (USB, eSata, FireWire, etc.). Sorry about that. In general, whatever medium/transfer mechanism you will use for the TIB file can be used for a simple copy of the files.
Kevin,
Yes, only the restore option from within ATI will show you the option to preserve the security settings and to choose whether you want the date in the backup or of the restore time.
Okay, I will experiment.
I didn't mean a USB flash drive, but an external disk (USB, eSata, FireWire, etc.). Sorry about that. In general, whatever medium/transfer mechanism you will use for the TIB file can be used for a simple copy of the files.
My weak understanding is that by using Acronis, I can validate the integrity of copy, whereas, with a straight copy, I am at risk. I am not sure if that is true or not.
Pat, thank you for your patience. The ball is now in my court to complete a file backup and then transfer over. I plan to do this within the next few days. I will report back after I have attempted to port the files over.
You should trust a simple copy made by the OS! Some things can go wrong with backups, *even* if they validate. If you are paranoid as I am with backups, you shoud use 2 methods, with different technologies, media and location. Good luck!
Replicator which is part of Karen Kenworthy's Power Tools is extremely versatile when it comes to copying either a few files or a whole disk. If there are errors in the process, the log file will so indicate. Small files or large files can be easily handled and the file copy can be scheduled. Once a copy has been created, any subsequent run will copy only the changed files. Hidden files are copied as well and the copied files are duplicates of the original in every way including attributes.
This link is the download link but it also includes her description of the various features and how here program has progressed over the multi years it has been in use.
http://www.karenware.com/powertools/ptreplicator.asp
Any time you want exact copies of the original, don't overlook this program.
Using Windows to copy a bunch of programs is much to slow and requires baby sitting. Replicator is a copy tool which can be automated.
Depending upon how much space is required, this program can be used as a backup for other copies to make sure you have several copies stored in several places.
Item #12 inside my signature index below offers examples of how other people care for their backup data.