Backup to NAS very slow in 2020
David,
Looks much better yes. I use those ASUS cables and they are very good quality. In fact the issue with data cables I wrote about was solved using these very same cables. I believe they will serve you well.
Glad to see that things are looking up!
well here we are then... the final results
not quite sure why the full backup shows 5 1/2 hours in the log but only 4 hours in the activity
D drive slightly better with the new cable on some, slightly worse on others
LAN definitely better with CAT7
Logs attached for final(?) perusal in case there are still any problems
Thanks again to all who have contributed....much appreciated
EDIT: I uploaded the wrong logs...apologies...correct logs attached
This problem is still happening.....i.e. subsequent "full" backups taking over twice as long as the first one....even if I run them manually one after the other to force a new full backup
I have tried it to an external USB3 drive with the same result
I opened a case as suggested
[04283919] slow backups [ ref:_00D30Zcb._5001T1JUwrd:ref ]
but so far no answer
so clearly it is a known problem
I have requested a refund as I have reverted to 2018.....doubt I will get it though as their support seems to be rather poor
I have now reverted to ATI 2018 and can confirm it backs up quickly EVERY time
I raised a case with Acronis "support" (LOL) who have pretty much washed their hands of it, adding yes we know there is a problem and we are working on it
I suggested they refund me for the upgrade as it has clearly not worked from day one but they have refused point blank dding that "I waited too long - i.e. past their 30 day refund window - to request a refund!!!"
Yes, indeed I did wait in the somewhat vain hope that a large and trustworthy company such as theirs would be able to solve the problem but no, my case is now "parked", and I feel they have in effect stolen my money for a product with a fault that renders it un-usable and will not refund it.
If they were a British company I would take them through the small claims court and I would win.....I just wish there was another decent backup software that I could use as I am really pissed off with their attitude over this.
David, at this point I can only suggest opening a conversation via private message with Renata Gubaydullina | Product manager, Acronis True Image to see if she can help in any way?
David Faulkner schrieb:Ich habe einen Fall mit Acronis " Support " (LOL) angesprochen , die sich so ziemlich die Hände gewaschen haben. Ja, wir wissen, dass es ein Problem gibt und wir arbeiten daran
We are working on it ... means "priority low" for me.
more like we dont care because we have your money and theres nothing you can do about it
David Faulkner wrote:more like we dont care because we have your money and theres nothing you can do about it
That might be the case of upper management, but is unlikely for the people working down in the trenches. More likely they are understaffed. I doubt the support team could possibly have been ready for for the flood of customer reports resulting from ATI 2020 bugs and changed behavior.
We customers may feel a bit like victims of ATI 2020. Well so is Acronis support. In addition to dealing with the problems, they have to deal with US.
Well I contacted Renata and requested a refund for their non-working product but got nowhere as "you should have requested this within the 30 day period"...... I explained that I HAD reported this as soon as I noticed it was a problem but did not request a return as I hoped it could be quickly sorted.... they ARE after all one of the biggest backup software houses out there and I HAVE been a loyal customer since Trueimage 7 but no, I got nowhere and will not be getting my refund :(
I am not happy with this and if they were a UK company | would pursue them through the small claims court as the product fails to work as advertised but they arent so maybe lesson learned.
Thoroughly de-moralised I returned to TI2018 which works flawlessly and takes around 5 hours to do the full backups - whether they be the first or subsequent ones.
Last week I received a request to try 2020 again and provide them with screen dumps, logs and process monitor logs which I duly did, noting again that the problem is exactly as before - i.e. 4 1/2 hours to do the first 1.4Tb backup, then a couple of incrementals, then a massive 12 hours to do the next full one OF THE SAME, UN-CHANGED DATA, commenced some 2 hours later which is utterly ridiculous and totally un-acceptable.
I received a response saying that the problem was because my network transfer speed was very slow - I identified this months ago - ....except that it is not a problem with the first backup (which always achieves around 780Mbps) or with ANY of the TI2018 backups but only with subsequent TI2020 full backups after the first one!!!
Report files are too big to attach so are here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YzlwKRelUQqaR0BgvuTU-86ZWR9zIdtB
David, thanks for the link to your system report zip files.
Looking at just the 'after 10 hours AcronisSystemReport', this just shows 3 runs of your 'Entire PC' backup task where the first run took 4 hours 31 mins, the second took 4 mins 15 secs, and the third run just shows an elapsed time of 25 secs as was still active (from 10:41:48 AM).
Because you are using 'Entire PC' for the backup source, this will pick up any changes on both your internal drives (465 GB C: and 3.64 TB D: drives).
Personally, I never use Entire PC - my preference is to backup each of my drives separately to have smaller, independent backups of each disk, which makes any recovery simpler and allows for different rates of change on each drive. My HP laptop has a 500GB NVMe SSD alongside a 1TB HDD drive with the latter split into 2 x 500GB partitions.
It may be that the way the new .tibx backups process are a factor with your slower network speeds to your WD network box, and if so, there is a process whereby you can force ATI 2020 to make disk backups as .tib files as with your earlier ATI 2018 app.
See forum topic: How to create a Disk backup as .tib (not .tibx) which will create a new backup task using the older .tib format in the Windows ATI 2020 GUI.
Hi Steve, thanks for the prompt reply...
we have been here before.,...I previously tried splitting the backups and also saving to my D drive and also to an external USB3 drive....the results were all exactly the same - OK on the first but woefully slow on subsequent full backups - and never a problem on TI2018 or previous versions
With all respect, my network speed is not slow, nor is access to my NAS drive - see attached
David, the reference to your network speed, I was just picking up on your previous comment where you mentioned it.
I received a response saying that the problem was because my network transfer speed was very slow - I identified this months ago - ....except that it is not a problem with the first backup (which always achieves around 780Mbps) or with ANY of the TI2018 backups but only with subsequent TI2020 full backups after the first one!!!
If you could try the work-around of forcing a .tib disk backup in ATI 2020, then that would give a direct comparison with how you have seen the performance with ATI 2018, as you would be using the same backup type etc, instead of comparing .tibx against .tib.
thanks...I did in fact try that (.tib) before but it did not work - cant remember what the issue was but it involved registry hacks and the like which I dont really want to do again.
Appreciate your thoughts but I recently did a complete re-install of win10 from scratch together with all the other programs I have as "something" seriously messed it all up and TBH I dont want to risk it all again.
I dont know what has happened but the backups now seem to be completing in "normal" times....the only thing that has changed here is that I purchased a new NAS drive.....but we have previously proved that that was not the problem by writing to an external hard drive !
Try Macrium. British company. Fast backup and free if you don't want Incremental.
I parted from Acronis about 5 years ago because of the support. Only reason I am here is because I was forced to use one of my old licenses for the Server version of Acronis and noticed how slow it is so started looking around for answers. 150GB backup took 2 hours to backup to a NAS on a 10G fiber network. Macrium does it in 8 minutes
..I dont have a problem paying for software - reflected by the fact that I have been with Acronis since Trueimage 7 and have updated every year or 2 years along the way...... I dont have a problem paying IF IT WORKS AS IT SHOULD.... in my case the latest update simply did not work but as I only do a full backup every month (so 2 months to notice the problem) I was outside of their return period and they simply did not want to know........I'm afraid their attitude towards a loyal home user has left a very bitter taste and if I can find another software that works I too will be off.
Hi folks - I installed Acronis True Image 2020 earlier this year on two desktops and immediately my systems became unstable. Perhaps coincidental with other happenings on my systems but it spooked me and I uninstalled it and haven't used it since, and haven't had any stability issues actually. I now really need a backup/restore solution and so re-installed it and started my first full backup of about 800 GB. It started up and after a while told me it was going to take 1 day and 8 hours. Huh? And I could tell by how fast it was going that it wasn't lying!
I'm backing up to a WD Mycloud NAS which is connected to a gigabit ethernet network. I can just copy huge files over at about 600 Mbps, but the Acronis software can only achieve a mighty 25-100 Mbps, after doing all the little performance tuning tasks they suggest. I see from a bunch of posts all over the internet that this is an issue with this software, yet I've never seen a solution posted. I see a lot of attempted workarounds, some of them very complex and roundabout, and I ask myself why I would want to spend hours configuring and trying out stuff that might, if I'm lucky, double the speed? I paid good (now bad) money for this software and am not going to become a Systems Administrator to make this work.
After reading this thread I've lost all hope and am going looking for another solution. SOS - ABANDON SHIP!!!! Anyone with any other ideas - please post.
I just ran into this problem with a client and gave up. Have never had this issue previously.
Acronis TI 2014 Home
Windows 10 Pro
Gigabit Network
CAT6 cabling
USB 3.0 drive connected to TP-Link Router
CPU Usage set to High
Compression 0
VSS tool shows no issues
Network adapter TX/RX offload nonsense disabled across the board
Windows explorer file transfers to drive over network: 40-45MB/s sustained over 2000MB
Acronis Backup to drive over network: 3MB/s
Acronis Backup to drive over USB: 55MB/s
no, no, no.....you (we) are all wrong as there is no problem...."they" told me so!!!
I tried Macrium as suggested by another user but I was not impressed...much slower and way bigger resultant file size so no, I wont be jumping ship just yet
I have to say though that having replaced my WD Caviar black (acknowledged to be one of the quickest and best drives going) and suffering no disc problems or errors whatsoever (Acronis tech checked it and so did I) with a 4TB Samsung 860 Evo SSD, ALL the problems I experienced have vanished....backups are blisteringly fast and, more importantly so are intermediate ones.....maybe there was some shadow copying going on or something we dont know about but it is certainly better now
I also experience the slow backup problem. I think the cause is because Acronis True Image is doing too much reading while it is doing the backup. Looking at Windows Task Manager performance for the backup drive I see that Active Time is at 100%. Read speed is almost as much as write speed - about 30 MB/s. Average response time is around 16ms. If the backup was being done with sequential writes and no reads, then I would expect a write rate close to 150 MB/s for the external USB drive. CrystalDiskMark 7 shows that the backup hard disk drive is capable of at least a sequential write speed of 150 MB/s.
Because there is so much reading of the backup drive, that would certainly slow down writes as it would cause disk head seeks. I am quite surprised that the read rate is about the same as the write rate during the backup. Why is Acronis True Image 2020 doing so many reads of the backup drive?
The results are about the same for a Seagate 8 TB drive and Western Digital 5 TB backup drive. The drives being backed up are SSD drives.
I wonder if the Acronis backup product is tested on regular hard disk drives (not SSD)?
I would expect the backup speed to be OK using a SSD backup drive even with all the reads because SSD drives don't suffer the disk head seek performance penalty.
The Acronis product should be able to backup 3 TB to a 8 TB drive in a reasonable time using sequential writes. It doesn't. It takes too long writing at an average rate of about 20 MB/sec.
For people who only backup a few hundred GB of data and use SSD backup drives, this is obviously not a problem. That is probably why Acronis True Image gets such good ratings.
No idea of what steps the Acronis engineers take when testing backup process.
The level of compression, the type of backup, full, incremental or differential. With the latter it is necessary to find changes since the last full backup was made, with incremental backup there will also be reference to prior incremental backups in the current backup chain. For disk backups it not based on changes to files, but changes to individual data blocks. So defragmenting a HDD can have a significant impact.
Ian
The large amount of reads of the backup drive is during a full backup. The backup drive is not SSD. It appears the reads are causing the writes to be slow because of disk head seeks.
I am surprised that the backup drive has to be read during a full backup. Not just a few reads, continuous reads.
As I stated in the previous post, Windows 10 task manager shows that the amount of reads are almost equal to the amount of writes. The write rate is only about 20 to 30 MB/sec. It should be 150 MB/sec. This is an Intel i9 desktop computer where CrystalDiskMark shows a sequential write speed of > 150 MB/sec to the USB 3 external backup drive.
Backing up to an external drive is not as straight forward as data copy from one location to a location on an external target. The only time you will see large amounts of sequential writes during a backup is when large numbers of blocks containing uncompressed data are being copied. Because ATI compresses the backup images it creates if your source data contains a lot of already compressed data this will create a bottleneck which will effect performance.
The total amount of free system RAM memory is also a factor in this equation. The smaller the amount of available free RAM the slower the backup. If your external disk has a small cache size this will also negatively impact performance.
I have no doubt that CrystalDiskMark shows your external disk capable of writes up to 150MBps. That benchmark uses small 4GB test files by default, these will run at near peak performance. I notice you are using version 7 of the benchmark, you should upgrade to version 8 which adds the ability to run predefined test profiles. Use the Demo Profile. Up your test data files size to 64GB and run that at say 9 passes. Click on Settings then Settings again and adjust the block size to 4MiB and Queues to 1 and see what your results are. If you do this you will notice that it takes a long time to prepare the test file. The result you get will be close to optimal performance with uncompressed data. After this test run change your test mode to Random and drop your test file size to the smallest available which I believe is 64MiB. You should now see a significant negative effect on performance. You can equate that to backing up a huge number of small files to the large block size of most multi TB disks. Add to that the compression penalty which varies depending on data type with compressed data (media files) being slowest and you might be surprised at the outcome.
If your backups contain a lot of compressed data you should consider backing up that data in smaller total capacity sizes and using Folder/File backup rather than Full Disk backups.
Why is Acronis doing so much reading of the backup drive while it is backing up?
My guess is that is a big factor in the write performance.
I am not expecting 150 MB/sec write performance.
I am expecting better than the 25 MB/sec shown by Win 10 Task Manager while it is also reading the same amount from the backup drive.
Does Acronis publish benchmarks of backing up 3 TB to an external USB 3 drive? (not SSD)
Maybe there are writeups of performance details that I am not aware of.
The most likely cause of reading at a high rate is that of disk corruption. Acronis True Image, unlike other backup apps, scans the target (backup) disk for corruption during the initial analysis of the target, Once that is finished then actual backup begins.
Have you tried the suggestions in the kb link below as a possible solution?
Slow response when external diak attached
It is reading while it is writing the backup. Not an initial scan.
Also, disk corruption is not the issue. This happens no matter what drive I back up to. I have used at least 3 different hard drives with the same results.
I will try to avoid the issue by doing multiple partial backups instead of the full backup of 2.5 TB
I was expecting Acronis to be able to do the large backup at a good speed. I guess not. Expected a shorter total time than over 15 hours. My computer is a high speed Windows 10 computer. The only slow link is the USB 3 external drive. That is working at it is supposed to. As I wrote before, tests show it can perform sequential writes at > 150 MB/sec. There are times during the backup when Acronis 2020 does achieve the speed of about 150 MB/sec. Then near the end it spends hours writing at 20 MB/sec while reading at 10 MB/sec with disk active time pegged at 100% and average response time > 60 ms (Task Manger/performance). That is mostly while backing up my fastest C: NVME SSD drive (active time < 5%, response time 1 ms). Available RAM of the computer shows 2.5 GB.
Are there Acronis benchmark tests of backing up > 2 TB to external USB 3 HDD.
Backup drives I have tried are recent: Seagate, Wester Digital, Western Digital Gold 5 inch. The performance of Acronis has been the same with all of them.
backup_worker.exe writing and reading tibx file according to Windows Resource Manager
currently: reading: 8 MB/sec , writing: 13 MB/sec
lots of reading for writing a backup
HDD drives don't like writing and reading at the same time
I am looking for a correct explanation and solution.
Certainly a SSD backup drive would not suffer the read penalty.
I can't afford 8 TB SSD drives for backups