Why WinPE Rescue named "ACRONIS True Image Small Office" v5534 and produces larger .tib file than ATI 2017 v5534 under W10 ?

Have you checked the Exclusions being used in the two different methods - I would suspect that these may account for the difference in size?

I'm with Steve.  Mount both .tibs in Windows using the "mount" option. Then run a file comparision tool (Mindgems folder size or treesize free are both good free products for just this type of scenario) against both to see what folders and/or files are accounting for the difference.  

In Windows, default exclusions apply automatically and leave out things like pagefile.sys, hiberfile.sys, but also some browser profiles and temp directories.  WinPE will not exclude some of these automatically if they live on the disk when it is being backed up offline. 

Other issues that could cause a difference:

If you shutdown your system in Windows 10 with fastboot enabled, you didn't really shutdown - just hibernated.  You now have a hibernation file stored on your C: drive that the WinPE will backup unless you exclude it.

What compression did you select in Windows and what compreession did you select in WinPE?  I don't know if Acronis small office uses the same compression ratio either, but assume it would be similar unless you have selected say "normal" compression in one and "high" in the other. 

I use the default value parameters in the both cases (ATI2017 Windows and ATI Small Office WinPE).

I have absolutely not modified any specific value of parameters, it seems that "normal" compression is the default value under Windows ATI2017 application.

So, it seems the default values parameters are not the same for the 2 different backup solutions ?

Please, Can you do a test on your PC to see if you observe the same big 'difference' ?

With ATI2016 i did not observed a significant file size .tib difference between the both way to do the same full system backupping.

I am not able to test this for you as I do not have access to the ATI Small Office WinPE product.

Please try comparing the two image file contents as suggested by Rob above to see what is being included in the larger one that is excluded in the other?

Hi Steve,

The 'ATI 2017 Small Office WinPE' product is not a separate product from ATI 2017 product.

If you have bought ATI 2017 you automatically have also the 'ATI 2017 Small Office WinPE' when you make a WinPE bootable media with ATI 2017 plug-ins.

May be I am wrong but with ATI 2016 the WinPE media bootable application was not named "ATI 2016 Small Office WinPE'..

It seems this is a new naming.

Yes, i will try comparing the 2 image contents as Rob suggested with a 3rd party tool.

I let you know soon the results.

100PIER wrote:

The 'ATI 2017 Small Office WinPE' product is not a separate product from ATI 2017 product.
If you have bought ATI 2017 you automatically have also the 'ATI 2017 Small Office WinPE' when you make a WinPE bootable media with ATI 2017 plug-ins.

Yes, i will try comparing the 2 image contents as Rob suggested with a 3rd party tool.  I let you know soon the results.

Sorry, but I have to disagree about having Small Office, when I create the WinPE Rescue Media, it is solely for ATIH 2017 - the Home product.

Acronis True Image Small Office is a separate product intended for small businesses with a server system - see:

FAQ about Acronis True Image Small Office 

• I already have an Acronis Cloud subscription in the home edition of Acronis True Image. Will it be valid for Acronis True Image Small Office? - No, it will not. With the small office edition, you will have a separate Acronis Cloud subscription and you will use different Acronis Cloud storage. Refer toSubscription information for details.

The above is very clear that there are separate subscriptions needed for the Small Office product and the ATIH 2017 license cannot be used, plus you also need a separate Acronis Account for the Small Office product. 

Steve,

If you have created a WinPE Rescue Media under ATI 2017 for Windows  (build 5534) Home Edition do you have checked the Menu Version displayed ?

What do you see displayed on your side ?

I observed on my side the WinPE Rescue Media application displayed is named "Acronis True Image Small Office" (build 5534).

Is there a bug somewhere ?

On my side , I have no server system , only 2 PCs and 1 MAC.

My licence is for Acronis 2017 Home for 3 work stations.

I don't use any Cloud. I do only local backup.

I just created new WinPE media using Acronis 2017 buil 5534.  Mine shows Acronis True Image 2017 (build 5534).  

You sure you never had a small office cloud subscription add-on?  Are you from Australia - perhaps there's a difference in the general applicaiton as small office seems to have been released there first?  You may want to ask technical support to verify why your WinPE would show a product other than what you have installed and/or purchased - no idea how that would happen unless it's a version difference in the product based on region or put the wrong pe builder in the final build of the non-us version (again, I'm assuming Australia, but don't know).

I doubt the PE would be the cause for the difference in size from your original question - unless compression is set differently.  I would still go back and mount both images in Windows and run a file comparison between the two to try and find the size difference. My guess is that your offline recovery also picked up a hibernation file due ot Windows fastboot, but a file comparison will give you the real answer. 

Steve, Bobbo_3C0X1

Here are the comparative WinPe vs W10 backup solution screenshoots.

You can see the huge difference, WinPE media produces a bigger .tib file size due to SYSTEM VOLUME INFORMATION  (40GB) which is not present for W10 solution !

I am located in Europe, and I have never had a small office cloud subsription add-on.. and even I ignored the existence of this product..

May be a licence issue when I received the key after ATI 2017 beta testing ? I have to clarify with Technical support.

Bobbo, why are you speaking 'offline recovery' ?

I do compare only 'full system backup' .tib files size that I have stored locally in my PC on a big internal SSD internal dedicated for the backup.

I don't use Cloud.

I do compare the W10 solution and the WinPE solution.

With ATI 2016 versions I had never observed a big size difference  when using a W10 backup solution or a WinPE backup solution.

Within Windows version, system volume information is excluded by default - this is where system restore points live.  I believe that one of the engineers said it is excluded by default because the system restore points often don't work after a restore.  Windows 10 is turning system protection off by default as well and has to be turned back on manually by users too.

Win PE backs up everything on the drive.  

Only thing I can't explain is why anything in system volume information is being backed up if it's being excluded in Windows.  Perhaps it was turned on later, not sure.  Check your exclusions tab in the Acronis Windows GUI. 

Bobbo,

Here are the exclusions tab in Acronis Windows GUI.

These are the default values, I have changed absolutely nothing.

So, why WinPE Acronis plug-in offers by defaut to backup the 'unuseless' system volume information ?

With Acronis Windows the full system backup done (.tib) without 'system volume information' by default works fine when using it to restore the full system.

For instance in my case I don't see the interest to save unuseful  14 GB compressed ...

I hope ACRONIS team should fix this conceptual bug.

Ok - yes, you have several file exclusions by default, including the system volume informatoin which is the normal behavior.  I don't agree with all of them (especially those regarding browsers and wish they would all be removed by default - I've requested this a few times and continue to submit feedback on this).  

However, some of them, such system volume infrmation, pagefile.sys and hiberfile.sys make sense.  Pagefile and hiberfile make sense because they only exist when Windows is active.  They are not necessary to restore the system and don't exist when the disk is idle (offline).  System volume information is debateable but Acronis has chosen to exclude it by default from within Windows because restoring the OS, typically turns off system protection, as does this occur when yoiu upgrade or install Windows 10 now (as designed by microsoft).  

Aslo, when taking a backup with Windows running, Acronis (and other backup products) must take a "snapshot" of the operating system because many system files are locked by the OS, along with other application files using a service account (VSS) which has more access than the logged on admin account.  VSS will not backup certain files by default - I can't remember all that it it excludes, but I believe that also includes restore points (not sure though).  

When you take an "offline" backup with WinPE or the default linux media, Windows is not running - nothing on the disk is - it's idle data.  As a result, it can backup the entire disk without VSS.  By default, there aren't really any exclusions as result (other than .tib files whicy you gernerally wouldn't want to include a backup in a backup). 

If you wanted, you could remove all of your exceptions in Windows and it should be closer to the size of the WinPE (I'd leave the pagefile.sys and hiberfile.sys and recycled bin excluded though).  I've attached what my exclusions look like .  I have removed system volume information from mine.. however, I also have system protection disabled (as set by Windows 10 by default) so there's no real data being backed up there anwyay.

There is something quite strange going on with the ATIH 2017 WinPE Rescue Media!

I booted my laptop from this and like the OP I also see Acronis True Image Small Office with build 5534 in the title bar and About information!  I have never owned Small Office or installed it etc.  See screen images.

The key point about the WinPE media, as Rob has stated, there are no default exclusions enabled - see third screen image of what is given as default but unticked!  So no System Volume Information (Restore point data) is shown in the list, not even pagefile.sys, swapfile.sys or hiberfil.sys is shown.

One thing I did find was that the standard Linux Rescue Media wouldn't boot giving a snapapi error!  I had upgraded from ATIH 2016 to 2017 and I found that I still had some 2016 components installed, Universal Restore and the Tib Mounter patch.  I had to do a clean install of ATIH 2017 by completely removing all traces of 2016 first, and then the linux media booted fine.

I recreated both sets of Rescue Media after the clean install and tested both worked OK but still see Small Office in the title / about information for the WinPE media!

interesting about the title.

Steve, check the acronis.inf in 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Acronis\TrueImageHome\WinPE

and see if it has "small office" somewhere (don't post the file here, looks like it has the registry key for the license - it's the "standard" reg key)

Then go into the folder and copy winpe.zip and extract the contents elsewhere.  Any references to "small office" in that acronis.inf or anywhere else that you can see?  All of mine say "Acronis True Image" 

Rob, no mention of Small Office in the .inf files in the WinPE folder or zip file, or anywhere else that I can find there!

Dang - I'm stumped.  Hopefully a support engineer can weigh in on this - did you submit a system report with feedback?

@Bobbo,

I have reported this 'Small Office" abnomalie to the 2017 Support Analyst. (Vyacheslav)

Analysis is on going.

Steve,

So, you confirm you get the same abnomalie  ("Small Office" product) I had reported in my original post.

I don't understand why Bobbo does see "ATI 2017" title when using its WinPE rescue media.

I have opened a ticket to Acronis support and all datas are now uploaded to Acronis Development team for analysis (system report, iso file to produce the Rescue boot media titled "Small Office", Treesize compare, detailed steps when doing a WinPE C drive backup, etc..).

I let you know when Acronis will fix the bug.

I guess that there may be differences between regional variations at work here, though why some should see "Small Office" and only in the WinPE media is a mystery and just adds an unwanted element of confusion at a potential time of recovery when that is the last thing you would want!

Please do keep us all informed of any updates / progress from your support ticket.

I downloaded a trial of True Image 2017 and created the Linux based rescue media.  It says that it is Acronis True Image Small Office.

Interesting!  For those of you getting the small office logo in your rescue media - what are your registered countries - UK and Australia?  Anyone with a US version showing small business?  

@Bobbo,

For me it is FRench country, and i have a one year subscription for 3 systems registered.

I see the "Small Office" version 5534 logo for the WinPE Rescue media.

For the new Rescue key media I have produced for my MAC I don't see any ''Small Office" logo....

So, a bug somewhere that Acronis is currently working on.

Hi all, 

The incorrect product name showing up in the trial and WinPE-based bootable media will be fixed in the upcoming Hotfix 1. Thank you for reporting!

Thanks Ekaterina.

Thanks Ekaterina for the coming HotFix 1.

By the way, do you plan to fix also the 'size' image issue to offer a similar size when backupping thru WinPE or thru Windows ?

Do you plan also to fix a right time stamping of backup images not based on American time but on local time that PC knows into the BIOS motherboard ?

100PIER - the size in WinPE vs Windows is going to vary based upon the exclusions you show up above in your screenshots.  Again, when offline, it backs up everythign on the disk.  In Windows, it excludes certain files by default - one of those is "system volume information" which is 40Gb and being excluded in your Windows backup, but not in your offline backup.  Remove the exclusions (keep hiberfile.sys and pagefile.sys excluded though - those only exist when Windows is running) in Windows and the backup sizes should be nearly identical. 

Bobbo_3CX0X1

I understand that we can get the same "big" size when removing the  exclusions in Windows, but my purpose is to get the "smaller" size under WinPE.

Do you think is it possible to avoid under WinPE backup the 'every thing on the disk' concept applied ?

Is it a currently WinPE Acronis plug in implementation issue that could be improved ?

100Pier,

Yes, you can add exceptions to the offline recovery media as well.  You would have to manually add this exception each time you start the recovery media though as the media is "static" and cannot be modified in an automated way.

This is what's filtered in Windows and what could be added as a filter in the offline recovery media:

*System Volume Information*

Bobbo_3C0X1,

I have done a comparative test with 'default' parameters value.

Here is a screenshot of what happens when backupping the same "C drive" at about the same time.

So you can see the size difference and the time stamping difference of the two obtained images.

Why with the Rescue WinPE method the backup image is time stamped +10 hours in advance compared to W10 method backup ?

This is confusing. Why this arbitrary time value ahead ?

My PC bios timing is correct (Paris time).

What to do to avoid such aberrant time stamping ?

I have done  a backup (WinPE method) on 8th September at about 22:39  (the Acronis label is correct) and Windows displays the image as dated  on 9th September 08:41  !!

The remaining size difference (as you'll notice is much closer now) are due to the remaining filters you have in Windows.  Look at the numeorus exceptions you posted above in https://forum.acronis.com/system/files/forum/2016/08/124887/w10_exclusi….  Each of those is not filtered out by default in the WinPE so you would have to add each of those in your offline (PE) backup if you want them to be exactly the same.

I'm not sure about the time stamps - I've noticed the recovery media timestamps don't match that of the bios either - has never prevented a backup or recovery from working though. Just make sure to make a comment in the backup with the date/time and whatever other notes you'd like and you can always look at the comments during the recovery process. 

The time difference in WinPE is due to the local time zone not being set in WinPE. The correct time zone can be set in WinPE. If you use MustangPE, there is an option to set the local time zone during the build process.

Mustang,

I don't agree with you, the time difference is NOT due to WinPE himself or Acronis 2017 plug-in himself because when generating the backup image file name with '@time' and '@date' options these two value parameters are quite correct and correspond exactly to the local time zone of my PC. (see provided screenshot Post# 29 and the new ones attached)

For example, in the test done on 8th September 2016 at 22:39 , the label name of the backup image is quite correct: "2016-09-08_2239_full_b1_s1_v1.tib"
So, Acronis 2017 WinPE knows the proper local time zone.

But when looking at these files under W10 the additional time informations (properties)  are +10 hours. (see attachments herebelow)

In the example W10 displays a creation date of this Acronis True Image backup file on 9th September 2016 08:41

Backup takes about 3 minutes , so the backup ended on 8th September 2016 at 22:41 local time.

Why this arbitrary +10 hours more ?

Another test done with all manual filter settings (exclusion) such as:

hiberfile.sys, pagefile.sys, $recycle.bin, swapfile.sys, windows\csc, Sytem Volume Information

gives the equivalent size as the Windows backup operation (see attachment images_timestamp_incoherence_1.png)

You can observe the aberrant time informations as I have done backup today and time information indicates a +10 hours which displays a tomorrow information.

All my backup are on a local disk, i never use a 'network' disk.