Cloned drives not booting after imaging
So lately my co-workers and i have been having issues with acronis true image 2020 where the cloned drive doesn't want to boot. Alot of our customers have been upgrading from old mechanical HDD's to SSD's but its a roll of the dice on whether or not the cloned drive (SSD) will boot or not after the procedure.
We have checked the usual things with the PC like whether or not the PC is detecting the SSD or not and if its set to boot off the SSD (even manually selecting the SSD during boot procedure). We have even made sure that the PC has the latest bios update since we have ran across older PC's that needed a bios update to recognize the SSD, and yet nothing has worked. And yes we have left boot settings alone in the bios since normally we aren't swapping PC's so we are leaving it as either IDE, AHCI, UEFI, etc..etc.. And the odd time a customer is moving from an old PC to a new PC we have made sure boot settings in the new PC match the settings from the old one in order for windows to boot properly, and still it doesn't always wanna work.
We have resorted to having to run bootrec fixboot and fixmbr on a few machines in order for it to work, and then other times that doesn't even work at all, and then on the ODD time we don't even have to do any of this because the SSD just boot (extremely rare lately).
Is there an issue with Acronis not copying over partitions and file structures properly because this is becoming ridiculous. This software is supposed to make an exact clone of one drive to another, bit for bit, partition for partition and yes its honestly a toss up on whether or not the SSD even wants to boot in the PC even though it recognizes it fine.
Whats going on here guys? this is extremely frustrating and its causing a back log due to new drives not booting, causing more work for us and customers getting angry. Thoughts?
a couple of things have changed with cloning in recent versions.
1) when you clone in Windows, it will convert the disk layout to match the host OS layout. So, if you are cloning a legacy/MBR disk on a UEFI system, the clone will end up UEFI. This could be an issue if the drive is going back into a legacy OS, or vice-versa
2) If using the rescue media, make sure you boot it to match the layout of the cloned OS. If you have a legacy/MBR OS drive being cloned, be sure to boot the rescue media in legacy mode. If you have a UEFI/GPT OS drive being cloned, be sure to boot the rescue media in UEFI mode. This is key for cloning and for recovery to ensure the correct disk layout.
3) Make sure you never boot a system with 2 drives that are "the same"... i.e. the original and a clone. This can screw up a bios with a hardware disk collision and cause boot issues that remain in place afterwards. Some bios handle this better than others - some don't care, but some absolutely do. Always remove the original before booting a cloned drive, make sure the bios first boot priority is updated in the bios first too. on a legacy OS drive, the boot order is typically a physical descriptor of the drive. On a UEFI/GPT OS drive, the boot order is typically "windows boot manager".
If cloning still gives you an issue, try doing a backup and restore and see if the outcome is any better.
Also check this KB article out about legacy vs UEFI to help identify the differences in the boot options for rescue media:
Thanks for the response Steve
The way we do it here is we take the source HDD out of the PC and plug it (along with the destination drive) into a completely different, dedicated cloning PC.
So the cloning PC right now is running windows 10 UEFI and we run the windows based True Image installer. We clone the source to the destination and when complete turn the computer off, unplug both drives and then plug the destination drive back into the customers PC.
Your last statment there has me very intrigued: " A clone of a Legacy / MBR drive must be performed on a computer that is booted in the same Legacy / MBR boot mode. The same applies to UEFI / GPT drives must be cloned on a UEFI / GPT boot system." - I wonder if this is our problem since our cloning PC is currently running Windows 10 in UEFI mode. If this is the case then more testing will be required to see if this is the problem as to why a Legacy/MBR system wont boot since the cloning was done on a UEFI based system.
Thanks for the response Bobbo. I think my problem is coming down to solution/problem #1 you described. Im gonna have to do some more testing but this is now starting to make sense.
Bobbo_3C0X1 wrote:a couple of things have changed with cloning in recent versions.
1) when you clone in Windows, it will convert the disk layout to match the host OS layout. So, if you are cloning a legacy/MBR disk on a UEFI system, the clone will end up UEFI. This could be an issue if the drive is going back into a legacy OS, or vice-versa
2) If using the rescue media, make sure you boot it to match the layout of the cloned OS. If you have a legacy/MBR OS drive being cloned, be sure to boot the rescue media in legacy mode. If you have a UEFI/GPT OS drive being cloned, be sure to boot the rescue media in UEFI mode. This is key for cloning and for recovery to ensure the correct disk layout.
3) Make sure you never boot a system with 2 drives that are "the same"... i.e. the original and a clone. This can screw up a bios with a hardware disk collision and cause boot issues that remain in place afterwards. Some bios handle this better than others - some don't care, but some absolutely do. Always remove the original before booting a cloned drive, make sure the bios first boot priority is updated in the bios first too. on a legacy OS drive, the boot order is typically a physical descriptor of the drive. On a UEFI/GPT OS drive, the boot order is typically "windows boot manager".
If cloning still gives you an issue, try doing a backup and restore and see if the outcome is any better.
Also check this KB article out about legacy vs UEFI to help identify the differences in the boot options for rescue media:
Is there a setting in the program to stop this? :
" 1) when you clone in Windows, it will convert the disk layout to match the host OS layout. So, if you are cloning a legacy/MBR disk on a UEFI system, the clone will end up UEFI. This could be an issue if the drive is going back into a legacy OS, or vice-versa "
Unfortunately no! ATI is primarily intended for home users where cloning will be performed on the same system, so this 'feature' will be transparent to those users.
This has been raised by lots of users who want to be able to do as you are trying, i.e to use any PC for cloning and not having to worry that the partition scheme (MBR or GPT) will be changed between source and target drives!
Please submit Feedback direct to Acronis using the tool provided in the GUI to register your views on this aspect of how cloning now works!
Ahhh well that sucks. Alright atleast i think my problem has been solved. Thankyou for the quick responses guys and obvious quick solution. I had no idea that this feature had changed. I will be sure to leave feedback with Acronis right away.
Thanks guys!!
Steve Smith wrote:Unfortunately no! ATI is primarily intended for home users where cloning will be performed on the same system, so this 'feature' will be transparent to those users.
This has been raised by lots of users who want to be able to do as you are trying, i.e to use any PC for cloning and not having to worry that the partition scheme (MBR or GPT) will be changed between source and target drives!
Please submit Feedback direct to Acronis using the tool provided in the GUI to register your views on this aspect of how cloning now works!
Jonathan, glad this helped.
Yeah, personally, I want a clone to be EXACTLY the same as the original disk, but also have the option to identify the original disk layout and give an option to convert it if needing to move to a different system instead of the software deciding for me and picking the wrong one for the job I'm trying to accomplish!
Definitely provided feedback to Acronis though - this is certainly confusing to people who are not aware of the change and not something most people would expect to be happening since a clone is supposed to be an exact copy (even by Acronis definitions!)
https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/cloning-software/
You are exactly right Bobbo, i couldn't have said it better myself!
Bobbo_3C0X1 wrote:Jonathan, glad this helped.
Yeah, personally, I want a clone to be EXACTLY the same as the original disk, but also have the option to identify the original disk layout and give an option to convert it if needing to move to a different system instead of the software deciding for me and picking the wrong one for the job I'm trying to accomplish!
Definitely provided feedback to Acronis though - this is certainly confusing to people who are not aware of the change and not something most people would expect to be happening since a clone is supposed to be an exact copy (even by Acronis definitions!)
https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/cloning-software/
You are exactly right Bobbo, i couldn't have said it better myself!
Bobbo_3C0X1 wrote:Jonathan, glad this helped.
Yeah, personally, I want a clone to be EXACTLY the same as the original disk, but also have the option to identify the original disk layout and give an option to convert it if needing to move to a different system instead of the software deciding for me and picking the wrong one for the job I'm trying to accomplish!
Definitely provided feedback to Acronis though - this is certainly confusing to people who are not aware of the change and not something most people would expect to be happening since a clone is supposed to be an exact copy (even by Acronis definitions!)
https://www.acronis.com/en-us/articles/cloning-software/
The problem with this is that the average user would have no idea how to proceed or what to do if given choices or options. Choosing wrong would end in failure which leads to customer dissatisfaction. The proverbial "Catch 22".
Enchantech, yeah, but any fix is better than the alternative right now :)
I would hope it would clone "as is" by default to simplify things which should alleviate the problem for the majority of people experiencing this problem. A clone should be an exact copy (as it's been in the past) by default and that's not happening for a lot of people who expect the same.
I'd much prefer a choice than the tool simply picking one that is always wrong for a specific situation. Much more confusing (IMHO) to have the default process produce the wrong type of disk and causing boot issues than at least allowing the opportunity to pick one or the other (regardless of the default setting).
Agree 100%. It would be MUCH easier if it just did an exact copy and not even worry about the host file system. "Oh your source drive has a 1? well **** it im gonna put a 2".. no no it should not be that way, lol, if there is a 1, put a flipping 1!!!
Bobbo_3C0X1 wrote:Enchantech, yeah, but any fix is better than the alternative right now :)
I would hope it would clone "as is" by default to simplify things which should alleviate the problem for the majority of people experiencing this problem. A clone should be an exact copy (as it's been in the past) by default and that's not happening for a lot of people who expect the same.
I'd much prefer a choice than the tool simply picking one that is always wrong for a specific situation. Much more confusing (IMHO) to have the default process produce the wrong type of disk and causing boot issues than at least allowing the opportunity to pick one or the other (regardless of the default setting).
Sadly, the majority of users of TI clone to move from an HDD to an SSD in a single machine. Acronis believes that ease of use for the majority of its users is to make the process as fool proof as possible.
Would I like different options? Sure, but I am an advanced enthusiast, not the norm. So my point is that those whom are in the advanced club need to learn the intricacies of the app and adjust procedures to accommodate those intricacies. If you want choices then the option for you from Acronis is the Cyber Backup product targeted at the SMB market.
Definition of foolproof
: so simple, plain, or reliable as to leave no opportunity for error, misuse, or failure
So, that's not the case right now. I don't think it's that uncommon for people to clone other system drives - it might just be easier to use a different computer that has a working copy of True Image available in Windows. If it's the same drive going in the same machine, cloning it EXACTLY the way it already is won't impact those who are doing it that way.
Unfortunately, the new logic does impact those who are cloning a drive from a different machines where Acronis has no idea where the drive is going to end up and is making an unexpected change. The current method is far from fool proof since it does result in errors in this scenario so I think Acronis could easily improve this and make it more reliable for either situation so that it is closer to foolproof :)
So in the use case discussed here we obviously have an above average user. The OP rightly is running the clone operation from recovery media and not from within Windows. Problem is the OP's work platform is a UEFI booted rig and most of the clones that being produced are Legacy BIOS boot.
The documentation discusses this issue in Section 10.1.1 quoted below:
10.1.1Clone Disk wizard
Before you start, we recommend that you read general information about Disk cloning utility(p. 133).If you use an UEFI computer and you decided to start the cloning procedure under bootable media, please pay attention to the boot mode of the bootable media in UEFI BIOS. It is recommended that the boot mode matches the type of the system in the backup. If the backup contains a BIOS system, then boot the bootable media in BIOS mode; if the system is UEFI, then ensure that UEFI mode is set.
So it would appear that had the OP read the documentation they may not have had the issue in the first place.
I do not think the software is broken needing change. I think users whom fail to read the documentation often cause issues that are known and discussed in the User Guide.