Clone Not Working.. no errors; but resultant drive not bootable

Steve,
Are you using bootable media for this operation?

Please describe the steps you used to perform the clone.

Thank you for responding. No, I have been running True Image from WIndows.. and asking for Automated Clone..
In earlier versions it appeared to build the parameters and apply them when it rebooted. In 14 it appeared to attempt to run from Windows.

Results have been the same. No errors; but no cloned drive.

Hi Steve,
I'm still not clear on the steps you performed, disk placement, etc. I assume you are aware of the risks associated with cloning and that we recommend performing a full disk image back up and restore to "copy" a drive. If you still want to perform a clone please see this KB article:

https://kb.acronis.com/content/2931

MVP tuttle's post on cloning is something to consider:

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/76406#comment-234464

Interesting article. My laptop has 2 ports for hard drives. I was cloning from Windows from Drive 0 to Drive 1. WHen operation was complete and machine was shut down.. I removed drive 1 and replaced it with Drive 2. That is when I discovered that the clone had not worked.

I created a boot CD as you advised and will be trying this again from the boot CD instead of Windows. That might work. Its how Norton Ghost used to work back in the old days..

If that does not do it.. then I will try doing as the article suggests.. and place the target drive into the primary drive slot.. and the main drive into the secondary slot and try again.

Thank you for your insights.

Either way, just be sure that when you boot for the first time, only the new disk is attached and is attached in the slot 0 spot.
Also, during first boot, actually look at the bios to make sure that slot 0 is the selected slot for booting.

Steve,

Best wishes for your situation. I hope the bootable CD/Cloning process works running from RAM.

By disconnecting one of your HDD's before booting into Windows, you're avoiding one of the most common issues that can arise with Cloning, Windows seeing 2 identical HDD's at bootup. This avoids the HDD "Signature" collision issue that can occur occasionally after Cloning HDD's.

Here's my take on Cloning in general:

I've used periodic Cloning on my 2 Win7x64 PC's for about 3 years with one failure out of about 80 Cloning processes.

When I first began cloning with Acronis TI 2011, I was cloning within Windows. It worked ok but after reading some articles here and elsewhere, I switched to using the bootable CD for all of my cloning processes on both PC's. The other reason I Clone booted into RAM outside of the OS is that I like to prove the "worse-case" recovery scenario, recovering the HDD without the OS present. That way I know the recover methodology works as intended. I do the same when I Image, using the boot CD.

Since you're referring to your Laptop with Cloning, I'll offer my Cloning experiences with my Toshiba Laptop.

I've cloned about 25 times in 3 years with my Toshiba Laptop with no failures (the one failure occurred on my Dekstop PC).

I've cloned with my Target HDD installed in the Laptop SATA port and with the Target HDD installed in my SATA/USB Adapter (Enclosure). Both Target HDD location's worked ok (verified by booting into Windows on the Target HDD's after cloning complete).

I've read articles about the importance of the Target HDD orientation with Laptop's (needing to be installed in the Laptop) but I've not seen that as an issue with my Toshiba Laptop. I have read about the Target HDD location being an issue with Lenovo Laptops though. I'm not sure why the Target HDD location would be an issue with Lenovo's and not my Toshiba Laptop.

My take on Cloning in general, with Acronis or an alternative Cloning tool:

I prefer Cloning for my frequent full-HDD backup plan but I don't rely exclusively on Cloning since the risks are greater with Cloning vs Imaging although I'm satisfied with my Cloning success rate :). That said, my take is that both approaches are useful for ones overall PC backup activities. I don't prescribe to the view that it's an "either/or" situation with regards to Cloning vs Imaging for full-HDD backup strategies.

The advantage of Cloning for me isn't a case of time-saving (vs Imaging time) exclusively. I like having a spare HDD on the shelf in the event of a Source HDD failure or as a method for eliminating the HDD as a possible problem issue like intermittent HDD failure issues.

I keep a few Images on an external HDD in the event that I encounter a Cloning issue and need to restore from one of my Images.

I wish I'd bought one of those 2-SATA-bay Laptops like yours :). I have 2 SATA hot-swap racks installed in my Desktop PC which makes Cloning fast and convenient. It would be nice to have the same convenience with a Laptop.

Thanks guys for your help. Moving the target hard drive to physical drive 0 slot and using the Acronis Boot CD instead of Acronis Windows app worked fine. My problem appears to be solved.

Scoops, I totally agree with your philosophy. I like to have a backup drive that will boot and only need to be updated software wise.. to be current. As my laptop is 5+ years old reapplying the original image disks is not a suitable option for me. Having the 2 bays in this particular model is a great thing. I imagine cloning from USB 2.0 input would take a while.

I do full image backups.. as they are easier to manage than incremental or differential backups.. but lacked a true clone to fall back on in case of disaster . Thank getting me past the rough spots.

Best Regards,

Steve

Steve,
You're welcome :) By processing periodic HDD Image backups, You're ahead of the curve out there regarding PC recovery capacity.

Also, having that complete bootable spare HDD is a good "peace of mind" tool to have on the shelf as it can be used for numerous situations: fast recovery from virtually all malicious content on the Source HDD. recovering from user mistakes/bad download's, etc. I've used mine to recover in minutes from bad Windows updates and malware recovery.

The last time I recovered from malware back in Nov '12, I installed the Clone HDD and set aside the infected Source HDD to sanitize in my spare time. That's one reason I like Cloning as one of my backup tools because I can clean the affected HDD later while resuming normal PC operations within a few minutes.

I have a 2nd spare HDD for Image-restoration tests and also to test some HDD-sanitizing tools when needed. With the reduction of spinner HDD pricing the last couple of years, that makes it easy for me to keep a couple of spares on the shelf.

Imaging, I do the same, prefer to go with full-HDD standalone-file Imaging vs the Incremental/Differential chains. Chain Imaging can be convenient but in order to automate them, a continuously-connected storage device attached to the parent PC is usually required which can increase the chances of being affected by malicious content.

The other possibility, although I'd guess it's very small, is that chain-Imaging is dependent on the complete chain being recoverable. If one backup file in the chain is corrupt or can't be recovered, that renders the complete chain un-recoverable in the event that a full-HDD restoration is required.

I prefer booting into the CD and processing Clones and Images for another reason: In the event of malicious presences on the Source HDD, by running the recovery tools from RAM, the OS (Windows) isn't running so with nearly all malicious-content scenarios, those objects are rendered benign thus are unable to launch and deploy into the Recovery environment.

Regarding the USB 2.0 processing times, that's for sure (slower) :). I looked at my Cloning/Imaging log and maybe I need to get a new Laptop with 3.0 speeds :).

My Acronis Cloning process times booted into CD:

Desktop PC

SATA 3 speed with 1 Tb Source & Target HDD's, with about 125 Gb data: 12 minutes

Laptop PC

USB 2.0 speed with 500 Gb Source & Target HDD's, with about 120 Gb data: 1 Hr 15 minutes

The process times have been very consistent and rarely vary over 1-2 minutes total time.

Gentlemen,

May I ask a follow-up question?

I notice that Windows Update no longer works on the cloned drive, which dampens my elation that cloning finally worked.

I don't believe this to be an Acronis caused problem; but without Update running the machine cannot take advantage of upgrades Microsoft puts out.

So what is the best way to deal with this situation? Do I consider my clone a bootable backup that should only be used in a disaster? My original intent was to have the clone (which is on the larger drive) replace my original drive and keep the original as a backup.

Is there a scenario where one can copy their system to a new, larger drive, without losing Windows upgrade.. or the ability to boot from that drive?

Thank you.

Steve

Steve,

Sometimes when cloning to a different-sized (larger) HDD, the Windows Update issue can be encountered due to the Update Svc raising an alert when reading the sector sizes on the cloned HDD.

There can be several causes for the Win Update not working on a cloned HDD. It may be necessary to update storage (HDD) drivers on your system to detect Advanced Format disks correctly. This will depend on the hardware of your system.

I'm guessing that your HDD's are all "AF" HDD's.

To determine your HDD type (Advanced Format type or Legacy type), you can use the following command from the CMD console. Here's my screencap of my "C" HDD using the HDD information that's returned from the command "fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo". I put an "-->" symbol at one of the informational values:

C:\>fsutil fsinfo ntfsinfo c:
NTFS Volume Serial Number : xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Version : 3.1
Number Sectors : 0x00000000746a37f8
Total Clusters : 0x000000000e8d46ff
Free Clusters : 0x000000000cbb52b7
Total Reserved : 0x00000000000007a0
Bytes Per Sector : 512
--> Bytes Per Physical Sector : 4096
Bytes Per Cluster : 4096
Bytes Per FileRecord Segment : 1024
Clusters Per FileRecord Segment : 0
Mft Valid Data Length : 0x000000000d280000
Mft Start Lcn : 0x00000000000703b4
Mft2 Start Lcn : 0x0000000000000002
Mft Zone Start : 0x00000000011d6d80
Mft Zone End : 0x00000000011d6e00
RM Identifier: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In the output you will find the value for "Bytes Per Physical Sector", which can be one of the following:

512 - for Legacy 512 native drives
4096 - for Advanced Format (AF) drives

To update your Storage Drivers, you can access the Device Manager. I attached a .png file screencap of my Storage Devices. You can right-click on the Storage Devices, and click on "Update Driver Software" from the pull-down menu. That often fixes Windows Update errors after cloning a HDD.

Here's a link for some Windows hot-fix tools that can also repair the Windows Update operation:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/971058

To try and answer your other question about having a cloned HDD as a spare bootable complete backup HDD, it will work as I have been doing this for over 3 years. Here's an example of numerous advantages of periodically Cloning one's HDD:

I recently had an intermittent issue with my original Source C HDD where it was beginning to generate some noise. It wasn't the classic noise issue, the "clicking" sound that's usually associated with imminent HDD failure, but was more of a noise that was, I think, coming from the HDD platter motor or bearings. The HDD "S.M.A.R.T." data was all reporting good/ok parameters but SMART reports don't always indicate problems present with the HDD.

To eliminate the noise source, since I wasn't certain that it was the HDD (maybe a cooling fan in my tower), I Cloned the Source HDD and ran on the Cloned HDD for 3-4 weeks. The noise disappeared so I knew I had an intermittent HDD that was in the early stages of failure. I verified this on the desk with my SATA/USB Adapter (Enclosure).

I'm cloning with 2 identical-sized HDD's which can simplify things overall and can help avoid other issues such as the issue that you encountered.

I've cloned from a smaller (500Gb) HDD to a 1Tb HDD one time a couple of years ago when I needed to upgrade my "C" HDD size. It worked ok (no Win Update issue). Having said that, I prefer to clone periodically with identical-sized HDD's to keep things simpler and to eliminate situations that may arise due to dissimilar sized HDD's.

[edit/add] After posting, I shut down my PC and installed one of my Cloned HDD's (cloned a few days ago on Dec 10) and checked my Win Update functionality. Worked ok. I was curious since I hadn't checked that function after Cloning in a while.

Thanks Scoop,

I used to clone a lot some years back but that was probably on XP and 98 .Never encountered the WIndows Update issue til now.
Will check out what you said. Maybe the hotfix will help?

I was running out of space on my HDD so I bought one that was slightly large, on sale. Unless I can free up a lot of space getting another similarly sized drive is not really an option for me.

Regarding your HDD issue, I would recommend running Spinrite 6.0, a low level format tool that has been around since the 80s and will not destroy your data.. but will keep your hard drive functioning like new.

Scoop,
Not sure why; but windows update suddenly started working with last power up. All seems well. Ran the FSUTIL commands you posted and both drives had the same sector allocations.. so not sure why I had so many successive failures in prior attempts following the clone. All is well now.. Thanks again everyone, for your help..
Steve

Steve

Good news. Glad it's working for you now. I'd say it's one of those Windows mysterious self-repairs :).

Thanks for the Spinrite info. I'd heard of it a few years ago but forgotten about it.