Incremental backup problem

Jean,

How did you delete the backups from within 2013 or directly via your file manager? I would expect to see this happen if you directly deleted the files using Windows Explorer, if you deleted the files from within 2013 the database ought to be updated correctly.

To delete files in an archive, select Recover and then select the archive, from here you can right click and delete individual files or archives.

Colin,
Thanks for your answer.
I tried to delete the archives from your recommendations:
"To delete files in an archive, select Recover and then select the archive, from here you can right click and delete individual files or archives."
but the right click has no effect and i did not find any delete possibility from the archive list, only the restore possibility....
The only possibility is for the task itself, to delete or suppress it from the list, but i want to keep the task.
Also is there any possibility to automate the delete in the database from any automatic process (like erase *.* from a bat file ?)
Thanks

Jean,

Look at page 59 of the 2013 User guide or this link http://www.acronis.com/support/documentation/ATIH2013/#13712.html of the online help.

It is not advisable to delete any image outside of TIH even if you were to use a batch file as part of the post task capability as the TIH databse still wouldn't be updated. It can only be updated by TIH itself or by manually rewriting the task script.

Hello Colin,
Many thanks for the pointer, but i cant find the "time line" described in the chapter:
==========
"To delete a specific backup version:
On the Backup and recovery tab, find the corresponding backup box and click the Recover button or click the gear icon and then click Recover files (in case of a disk backup).
In Backup explorer, right-click on the time line the version you want to delete, and then click Delete version.".
==========
I did not have such kind of problem with "True Image 2010".
I was planning to buy the 2013 version, but if i cannot find a way to start a task on Monday to make a full backup then 3 to 5 incremental backup during the week, then i will stay with the 2010 version.
Note that this scheme must be reproducible the week after, and after via a scheduled task (this is working with the 2010 version that i use currently).
Thanks

Update:
Found the time line to delete a specific version, but no way to do that via an scheduled program, the only way is to do it manually....

Hello again,
I did a try with "chain version" task, instead of 'Incremental" task.
1- The chain version does not work as documented. The first is a full backup, and i tried up to 9 incremental backup.... without any "consolidation" each 2 or 3 incremental.
============
Backup version chain
Sequence of minimum 2 backup versions that consist of the first full backup version and the subsequent one or more incremental or differential backup versions. Backup version chain continues till the next full backup version (if any).
============
2- Once the full and (3 to 5) incremental backup are done, if i erase all files via Windows Explorer, the next start of the task give me a full backup followed by incremental backups..... like i expected using incremental backup task before....
So i will continue the test with "chain version" task....
Too fast......., the second task start after the erase give me also a full backup.... like the incremental task previously....

Jean,

If you delete the files in Windows Explorer 2013 will get confused. You should only use the True Image Explorer otherwise the database doesn't get updated correctly.

Thanks Colin,
I know that "You should only use the True Image Explorer otherwise the database doesn't get updated correctly.", but this can only done manually.... and i need something automatic.... like the TI2010 process...

Hello,
I tried Chain2Gen from "oracledba", and it ends up with the same behavior using it 1 or 2 times.
It seems that Chain2Gen is deleting files (like me to try to start a new set of Full and Incremental backup).
I do not understand why Chain2Gen is also recommended for TI 2013 (http://forum.acronis.com/forum/35584)...
"Oracledba" or "GroverH", can give me an answer ???

The following are the tib files created after a Chain2Gen cleanup and the start of the incremental task 4 times:
I5-C_D_2Set_full_b1_s1_v1.tib (validate is OK)
I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1.tib (validate is OK)
I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-2.tib (validate gives "invalid tib file")
I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-3.tib (validate gives "invalid tib file")

Thanks for any answer....

Jean,

Referring to your last post, the last two entries won't validate as they are not referencing a Full image they are referencing what amounts to a copy of themselves, in other words whilst the actual contents might be different the TI database is linking

I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-2.tib and I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-3.tib with I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1.tib not with the full I5-C_D_2Set_full_b1_s1_v1.tib

Jean,
Referring to your post #8.

Your link pointed to a discussion of C2G with Allan. My point was that he was already using C2G and that C2G will work with 2013 just as well as it has worked with the more recent prior versions of TrueImaage. If it is working, why change!

C2G is a helper program for TrueImage.
True Image creates the backup. Scheduling can be done via manually; by Acronis or using the Windows Scheduler.

The function provided by C2G is to monitor the storage folder and make sure the number of files residing in the storage folder(set0) matches the user requirement supplied to C2G in the C2G user parameter files. Once the resulting backups meet the user parameters, C2G moves the files into a new folder and a new full is created in set0. C2G will delete storage folders only in order to meet the user specified parameters.

In order for C2G to work correctly, both C2G and TrueImage must be set up according to the instructions provided with C2G.

If you are wanting help with C2G, then provide a listing of the user settings you have provided to C2G plus the screen capture of the TrueImage Backup scheme and we will try to be of assistance. If C2G does not perform as specified, the cause is usually related to wrong information provided to C2G by the user.
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Regarding TrueImage 2013, if it is your goal to have Acronis create a full backup and then create x number of incrementals, 2013 can do this without issues.

Additionally, if you want it to create new backup (keep old or delete old), 2013 can do this as well.

Suggest you examine figure 11-Inc inside this link.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/28705
This example shows how to set up the backup scheme based on having the program retain a fixed number of backups chains or backup versions (chains) so that your storage folders is a set of revolving backups

Instruction 3 inside example 11-Inc is set to complete 1 full and then 6 perform incremental backups.(All 7 backups are considered to be a version or a chain. None of the inc's have any value without the original full.) You can change the 6 example to fit your own needs.

Instruction 5 inside example 11-Inc has an example of 4 sets of versions/chains (4 x 7=28 backups) being retained in the storage folder before any automatic deletion of backups begin. You can change the 4 to fit your needs so you can keep more or less than this specific example.

Optionally, you can choose to keep the original full--user choice. Once the required number of backups have been met(item 5), then the program will begin the delete the oldest set once its replacement has been created. The program will NOT perform a delete until the replacement set has been created. In my example of retaining 4 chains, a 5th full backup will be completed before the oldest first 7 backups are deleted. Thus, user must always provide space for one additional full backup although the additional space is only temporarily used.

Once you have completed and saved the backup task, then ALL the backups will be created via this single task either by a schedule or the user pressing the BACKUP NOW OPTION or by executing a desktop shortcut manually.

If the Backup task is properly configured when created and not later edited, the program will perform the correct number of backups and will retain the correct number of chains based on the original user backup scheme.

My experience and recommendation is that keeping x number of chains works without issues. The options to keep backups based on elapsed days or based on storage space consumed often times will produce results different than expected by user. I would avoid these two options which is why my recommendation (instruction 5) is based on keeping x number of backups versions or chains.

Hello GroverH

Many thanks, for your post:
Definitely, C2G do not work with TI2013, as Colin said in a previous post, "You should only use the True Image Explorer otherwise the database doesn't get updated correctly.", and C2G seems to do only a simple Delete of the Tib files, without interfering with the TI database, so Ti is confused.......
But i tried already (without success),  the Incremental, with 3 incremental backup and only one set, but the keywords are:

If the Backup task is properly configured when created and not later edited, the program will perform the correct number of backups and will retain the correct number of chains based on the original user backup scheme.

In fact i tested the task without limitations and automatic cleanup, then i modified the task to add these features, and got the problems (to be taken into account by Acronis in future release).

Anyway i regret the 2010 task handling, as i scheduled the incremental task each 2 days of the week, then deleted the Tib files on the next Monday to restart the same process. As there is no count, i was able to start the task on demand (just before trying a new software for example). This process was adding a new tib file without firing the cleanup in the 2013 version if the count is reached.

Anyway thanks a lot to all of you helping me...

Hi Jean,

Some suggested changes to your current procedure.
1. Do not edit or modify a task. If changes needed, create a new task pointing to a new empty storage folder. While Editing is easier, the results are not always what you expect. For the sake of accuracy and troubleshooting, create the task once and do not make changes.\
2. Deletion of backup files by the user is NOT necessary nor the best practice as the results are not always what you expect. Set up your backup tasks for automatic cleaning which can be done within the backup scheme option settings.
The illustrations of 11-Full (for full backups only); or 11-Inc (1 Full plus x Incrementals); or 11-Dif (1 Full plus x differentials). If you are new to 2013 and 2012, you will find the other examples inside this link helpful.

http://forum.acronis.com/forum/28705

One of the reasons you may not be getting the results you want may be
a. because your are modifying the task rather than creating a new task.
b. because you are performing user deletion of the backups which can be done automatically by the program.
c. Your backup settings may need tweaking.

I have set up two task examples below.
One example is using TI 2013 without C2G and the other example is using 2013 with C2G.
Single ask executed manually via the "Backup Now" option No user intervention in the executions of the task. No user deletions. Contents of storage folders were not modified.

My example is a backup procedure which creates 1 full plus 2 incremental backups or a total of 3 backups in each backup chain.

If I am understanding your postings correctly, you want to a new backup to begin each week replacing the old backup so the new backup would delete the old backup so that you always retain only the one weekly backup.

Using these guidelines, my tests illustrate that both 2013 and 2013 combined with C2G both perform without errors and retain the correct number of backup chains.

Week 1 (chain 1) = 1 full plus 2 Inc or Backup 1, 2, 3. Target folder would contain 3 files.

Week 2 (chain 2) = 1 full plus 2 Inc or Backup 4, 5, 6. After the full backup (Backup #4) is completed, the target folder will initially contain only the Full Backup #4. Backup 5 and 6 would be added upon their completion. See note1.

Week 3..(chain 3) =1 full plus 2 Inc. Backups 7, 8, 9. After the full backup (Backup #7)is completed, the target folder will initially contain only the Full Backup #7. Backup 8 and 9 would be added upon their completion.

Week 4 (chain 4) = 1 full plus 2 Inc or backups 10, 11, 12. After the full backup (Backup #10)is completed, the target folder will initially contain only the Full Backup #10. Backup 11 and 12 would be added upon their completion.

...Note1: Beginning in week 2 (chain 2), If 2013 is the program, TI will create backup #4 before deleting the 3 prior backups. If using C2G, C2G will delete the 3 prior backups before exiting. Next, TI would create backup #4 as the first file in the folder.

...Note2: My numbering the chains is for clarity and illustration. In this example, there really is never more than 1 chain as the oldest chain in always being deleted so a new one can be created.

...Note3: Normally, C2G does not delete the backup set but simply relocates the set into another folder on a revolving basis. It is only because this example is keeping only the 1 chain, that the backup set is deleted prior to replacement.

..Note4: These comments and examples relate only to the specific settings assigned to these tasks. If the parameter or settings changed, the attached picture may not match your examples.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment Illustrations:
2013 Backup Scheme without C2G
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

2013 Upon completion of Backups 1-2-3 First Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

2013 Upon completion of Backups 4-5-6 Second Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

2013 Upon completion of backups 7-8-8 Third Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

2013 Upon completion of backup #10 Full. Starting 4th Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

-------------------------------------------------
2013 combined with Chain2Gen (C2G)
C2G user parameter settings
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g & 2013 TI Backup scheme when using Chain2Gen (A required setting)
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g settings inside TI Backup options pre-post post option
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g & 2013 Upon completion of backup #1-2-3 First chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g & 2013 Upon completion of backup #4-5-6 Second Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g & 2013 Upon completion of backup #7-8-9 Third Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…

c2g & 2013 Upon completion of backup #10 Full/ Starting 4th Chain
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test-c2…
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Many thanks GroverH,
For this long post of explanations.
But my experience with C2G (which i do not use anymore) is :
If you synchronize the number of chain in Ti task (1 full + 2 Inc in your example), with C2g Parms (1 full + 2 inc), this seems to work (may be TI update its data base before C2G delete the files ??).
But if you use a TI task without any parms then you get the problem the next chain or the next after... (see part of the "!readme_chain2gen_v2.6.pdf"):
=======
The task you want to create has features you MUST use and features that are Recommended.
1) It MUST be an “incremental” backup type (see Acronis panel “backup method”)
2) It MUST have a backup method that allows for unlimited incremental’s without creating a new full.(see Acronis panel “backup method”)
========

Regards

Hello,
Found the tricks which will solve my problem:
I needed to have a Incremental task to do a full backup then 3 to 5 incremental backup, then restart the same process the week after....
To do so i erase all files (*.tib) and also erase the C:\ProgramData\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Database\archives.xml (which is the True Image database) before starting the set of backup of the week. (the database is re-created at the next backup by True Image).
Thanks to all helping me.
Regards

After the first time delete of the archives.xml, the program should handle all the deletions automatically if you set your scheme to create a new full backup after 5 incrementals. In my prior example, just change the 2 to 5. If you choose to do this, start a new task.

http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/mvp/user285/guides/test201…

Thanks GroverH for your answer.
In fact as i already post, i need to do 3 scheduled incremental, and 2 or more manual incremental (for example if i try some software, or if i am doing change(s) in my configuration.
If i create a task with a full backup after 3 incremental, i do not have the possibility to do 1 or more manual incremental without destroying the set when 3 is reached (for example 3 scheduled and x manual).
With my solution, i am able to do each week on full and as many incremental i need (scheduled and manual), along the week. The set will be destroyed only early the week after (erasing the set and the archives.xml).
Regards
Jean

Your way does provide you with options which the program does not provide. DO BE CAREFUL to make sure you have a current full backup somewhere else so that the deletion of the most recent does not leave you stranded without any backups should your approaching backups have problems.

Another option would be to set your incrementals to 5 and not scheduled by Acronis.
Then use the Windows scheduler to schedule and run 3 backups on the same schedule you would have used with TI.
Then use TI to set up a desktop shortcut which would enable you and require you to run 2 manual backups whether you need them or not. This would be more cumbersome but would eliminate the need for manual deletion of backups. The downside to this option is that you would need to perform 2 manual backups--regardless of need--in order to keep your full backups on a regular schedule. The manual backups would be done by executing the desktop shortcuts as needed.

Your solution works and my additional suggestion is just to offer a supplementary method.

Thanks Groverh,

Groverh wrote:

Your way does provide you with options which the program does not provide. DO BE CAREFUL to make sure you have a current full backup somewhere else so that the deletion of the most recent does not leave you stranded without any backups should your approaching backups have problems.

About your warning, i always activate the "Validate backup" option in the task, is it sufficient to be sure that the backup/set of backup is/are correct ??
About your additional solution, there is a little bit more constraint, as if the 2 manual backup are not done, there is no new full backup on Monday. Also the deletion of backups and database are done automatically by "Autotask2000" (i do not use the TI scheduler, which is not enough flexible), example:
1- Autotask2000 task # 1, on Monday each week at 09:28h: erase all backups (*.tib) in the backup directory, erase also the "archives.xml"
2- Autotask2000 task # 2, on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Sunday, each week at 09:30h: Start TI Incremental backup (which does not specify the number of backup).
Your solution would satisfy me, if i did not find the Autotask2000 solution...which is an entire automatic solution (except the on demand manual backups).
Many thanks
Regards

Whatever solution you choose, make sure you're never in the position of having no backups. You don't want all backups erased before new ones are created.

Hello tuttle,
No problem as i schedule backup on a 3 weeks basis (each week 3 to 5 backup), the 3 sets of backup are possible only with "Autotask2000" (the TI scheduler do not permit the 3 weeks basis sets, but it was possible with TI 2009...... )

Hello GroverH, and Colin,
Back with my initial problems:
It seems that the task Incremental process is working very well ONLY if you start the task from within True Image.
I did many trials, everything is OK, if the task is started from TI screen (i did not try with the TI scheduler).
Bu I got erratic behavior if started from "Autotask2000", with the following command:
RunProgram "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome\TrueImageHomeService.exe" /script:"C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Scripts\45FA0E95-4A61-497A-98C4-427C92B626BF.tib.tis"
With this kind of command, i got erratic tib files like the following:
1st activation: I5-C_D_2Set_full_b1_s1_v1.tib OK
2nd activation: I5-C_D_2Set_full_b1_s1_v1-2.tib ??
OR I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1.tib
3rd activation: I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-2.tib
4st activation: I5-C_D_2Set_inc_b1_s2_v1-3.tib

With sometimes message during validation like this: "Can't find file V1 or V2...." if i point to the right file, then the validation ends up without problem...(i checked "validate" in each task)

I think that there is a real problem within TI 2013...
Thanks for your answer
Regards

My suggestion would be to create a new task as your configuration appears needing changing.

Your Run command is below and appears to need changing to match the program. The syntax for this run command was changed in 2012 version.

RunProgram "C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome\TrueImageHomeService.exe" /script:"C:\Users\All Users\Acronis\TrueImageHome\Scripts\45FA0E95-4A61-497A-98C4-427C92B626BF.tib.tis"

Should read:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Acronis\TrueImageHome\TrueImageLauncher.exe" /script:45FA0E95-4A61-497A-98C4-427C92B626BF

TrueImage will create the correct command for you via its Task Edit Backup Settings/more/create shortcut
settings. The shortcut command will create a desktop shortcut which then can be edited to copy the exact command into clipboard.
If you click on the newly created desktop shortcut, you can run the backup from the shortcut so to see that the shortcut works.

I believe it is the wrong RUN command which is causing you grief in scheduling and creation. Start with a new task and a new empty sub-folder. Editing the existing task will only cause you more unexpected results.

Hello GroverH

Many thanks for your answer....
BINGO the new call to start TI task seems to be working (3 trials each with 1 Full and 3 Inc...OK).
I need some explanation:
You said:

The shortcut command will create a desktop shortcut which then can be edited to copy the exact command into clipboard.
If you click on the newly created desktop shortcut, you can run the backup from the shortcut so to see that the shortcut works.

I cannot see any newly created Windows desktop shortcut icon for possible editing....or run backup from the shortcut...
I don't need it, but i would like to understand....

Many thanks
Regards

RE: "I cannot see any newly created Windows desktop shortcut icon for possible editing....or run backup from the shortcut...
I don't need it, but i would like to understand...."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
a. Go into the backup task. Hover the mouse tip over the "BackupSettings" option. Click the "Backup setting" option to expose the options.
   Follow the steps shown in Image 1. The picture is old but should suffice.
   By clicking the "Create shortcut" option, this will create a desktop icon with the same name as assigned to your backup task.
b. Once the shortcut has been created, right click on the shortcut and choose "Properties" and the resulting display will display the code or commands used when can be transferred into other batch commands.
Follow the st eps shown in Image 2.

c. Once a backup task has been created, TrueImage provides 3 methods of creating a backup.
   1. Using the Acronis scheduler or using the Windows Scheduler
   2. Open the TrueImage program and click on the "Backup Now" option.
   3. Double clicking on the TI task backup Shortcut to execute the taask; or assigning the same code inside a batch command.

----------------------------------------------

Each picture can be enlarged by clicking on the picture.

Image 1

Image 2

Also review figure 19 at this link.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/28705

Edit: For other Windows scheduling shortcut items of interest, click on top line of signature link below and browse to index items #3-H and 3-I.

Many thanks GroverH,
I appreciate your help very much.
Found the "more" option using the "figure 19" of your pointer (the more option is also available if you right click on the task name)
Every things seems to work now
Many thanks again...
Regards
Jean