Using WinPE to Image Hard Disk (Important Observations & Problems)

Won't changing the time at the command prompt work? You can give it any time you want, I believe.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Won't changing the time at the command prompt work? You can give it any time you want, I believe.

Yes Correct. You can change the time at the command prompt in WinPE. However this will ALSO flash/change the Time in the PC BIOS. So Your PC BIOS Clock will be set to GMT (1 hour behind UK Summer time). I think this BIOS time change (GMT instead of Summer Time) will still stamp true image archive with the wrong stamp. Windows 7 (and the time updates) views time stamps differently to previous versions of windows. It automatically compensates for Summer Time when it views files (this compensation applies ONLY to files dated back to 1987). Also the time will now be wrong in WinPE. The backup archive will be viewed by WinPE as GMT (1 hour behind Summer). Not sure what effect this will have if the files you are backing up are newer than the backup archive time stamp in WinPE.

There is a further complication with chaning the Time at the WinPE command prompt (and thus chaning the BIOS time) in that when Windows 7 boots up the time will be wrong. So when it connects to the Internet Clock it will ReFlash the BIOS back to the correct time. It might possibly be a work around if you don't mind the BIOS clock changing (WinPE will now have the wrong time instead of Windows 7 - it just reverses the initial problem).

I will check this again but my BIOS Clock did change when I tried this. Also I will check how Windows 7 read the file with the changed time.

Ashley wrote:

Gary Darsey wrote:

Won't changing the time at the command prompt work? You can give it any time you want, I believe.

Yes Correct. You can change the time at the command prompt in WinPE. However this will ALSO flash/change the Time in the PC BIOS. So Your PC BIOS Clock will be set to GMT (1 hour behind UK Summer time). I think this BIOS time change (GMT instead of Summer Time) will still stamp true image archive with the wrong stamp. Windows 7 (and the time updates) views time stamps differently to previous versions of windows. It automatically compensates for Summer Time when it views files (this compensation applies ONLY to files dated back to 1987). Also the time will now be wrong in WinPE. The backup archive will be viewed by WinPE as GMT (1 hour behind Summer). Not sure what effect this will have if the files you are backing up are newer than the backup archive time stamp in WinPE.

There is a further complication with chaning the Time at the WinPE command prompt (and thus chaning the BIOS time) in that when Windows 7 boots up the time will be wrong. So when it connects to the Internet Clock it will ReFlash the BIOS back to the correct time. It might possibly be a work around if you don't mind the BIOS clock changing (WinPE will now have the wrong time instead of Windows 7 - it just reverses the initial problem).

I will check this again but my BIOS Clock did change when I tried this. Also I will check how Windows 7 read the file with the changed time.

I have done the test and my above post is correct (for my pc). If you change the Time at the WinPE command prompt it Changes the BIOS Time. Hence WinPE now reads the time 1 hour in the past (GMT if you like to call it). So the next time Windows 7 boots up it read the BIOS Clock and it is 1 hour in the past (again like GMT). You have to then either manually change the time back to Summer Time (+1 hour) or let Windows 7 change the time automatically when it checks the Internet Clock. However any Time Stamps saved in WinPE (with the alterated 1 hour time in the past) are read with the correct time in Windows 7 (because of the new Time Updates Win 7 uses). So it just reverses the initial problem.

Any other ideas. Any ideas on my first post/initial questions? What do Acronis think? Can you use WinPE to Backup/Image your hard disk? Does it matter that WinPE does NOT use Summer Timer Clock Adjustments and hence the Time Stamps are incorrect? Help. Any ideas anyone?

Ashley-

I am afraid I am a bit confused as to where your WinPE build comes from. I do not see in the WAIK documentation for any release (2.0, 2.1, or 3.0) how one alters keyboards, times zones, etc. Is this a standard build based on WAIK with True Image added via the Acronis WinPE ISO builder? Or have you done something else?

My WinPE (2.0) environment has no problem with DST - it gives the same time as the system time, hence I would believe that the time stamps would be correct. So I don't believe you can claim that WinPE does not use DST.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Ashley-

I am afraid I am a bit confused as to where your WinPE build comes from. I do not see in the WAIK documentation for any release (2.0, 2.1, or 3.0) how one alters keyboards, times zones, etc. Is this a standard build based on WAIK with True Image added via the Acronis WinPE ISO builder? Or have you done something else?

My WinPE (2.0) environment has no problem with DST - it gives the same time as the system time, hence I would believe that the time stamps would be correct. So I don't believe you can claim that WinPE does not use DST.

Microsoft AIK for WIndows 7 (3.0). WinPE 3.0 is offically from Microsoft. Altering the WinPE.WIM default build to include the UK Keyborad and Input Language and User Locale is easy. It is ALL in the MICROSOF Documnetation on THEIR Technical Forum. I Will POST HOW TO DO IT SOON for you just writing it now).

You could try a standard WinPE build as described here: http://forum.acronis.com/forum/9449

This is within the scope of Acronis documentation.

It sounds like your issue is with Microsoft, not Acronis.

HOW TO BUILD A WinPE 3.0 Bootable Media with UK Keyboard, UK Location & UK Language using Microsoft Windows AIK for Windows 7 and Acronis True Image Home 2010 Plus Pack

I will explain step by step how to setup WinPE for the UK Layout. I have also added a Summary at the End. Just Cut and Paste for UK Keyboard and UK Language Paramaters for WinPE 3.0 Bootable Media. Also see the note at the end for Languages other than UK.

This post will explain how to ADD a UK Keyboard, UK Location and UK Language to Microsoft WinPE 3.0 using Microsoft AIK for Windows and Acronis True Image Home 2010 Plus Pack. You can obtain/build the WinPE 3.0 files from Windows AIK for Windows 7 (From Official Microsoft Website).

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=696DD665-9F76-4177-A811-39C26D3B3B34&displaylang=en

After you have built your WinPE 3.0 and changed everything to UK you can then add True Image Home 2010 Plus Pack and you will have a WinPE 3.0 Bootable Media with True Image Home 2010. This document will Build the UK Layout of WinPE 3.0 - you will then have to follow the Acronis Plus Pack documentation/web links to add the Acronis Plus Pack (just the usual WinPE ISO Builder in the Plus Pack). NOTE it will only work if your Technical PC (eg. your physical PC you are using has the correct information in its regsistry for the correct country (most Vista and Windows 7 builds will - you just need to know the correct syntax). I will summarize everything at the end and show you the Registry Location to look for the correct information for your own country (eg. French, Germany, England etc etc). Note also the UK language is a subset of the US language so you will have both US and UK listed in the WinPE.wim file.

STEP 1. Build the Default/Basic Image WinPE.Wim

From the Windows Program Start Group (the usual windows start orb start programs for Windows AIK) open up the Windows AIK deployment command prompt with administration elevated privileges (ie run as adminstrator). As usual type the below command at the dos prompt.

copype.cmd x86 c:\winpe_x86

STEP 2. Mount Image WinPE.wim OFF-Line

Dism /Mount-WIM /WimFile:c:\winpe_x86\winpe.wim /index:1 /MountDir:c:\winpe_x86\mount

STEP 3. Optional Step here to see what your Default WinPE.wim file contains

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Get-Intl

The above command will list the dafault paramaters (note the TimeZone will be Pacific Stardard Time)

OR use the below command to list the Paramaters of your Physical/Actual Computer.

Dism /online /Get-Intl

NOTE Step 3 was Optional - Just a List

STEP 4. Setup the parameters for the UK/GB Language: SysLocale, UserLocale, InputLocale, TimeZone

Note Input Local is the Keyboard. You can add any of the below commands. Just configure as to your needs.

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-SysLocale:en-GB
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-UserLocale:en-GB
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-InputLocale:0809:00000809
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-TimeZone:"GMT Standard Time"

The above parameters will work for UK setup.

NOTE there are other things you can configure too. See the NOTE at the end for other languages Like French and German. The above is for UK. For other languages you will have to set the parameters given in the note at the end. Also for other languages you might have to add language packages too (see microsoft help documentation for language packs for other languages).

STEP 4a. Optional Step If you want to check the WinPE.wim pararmeters. Same command as before to list the WinPE.wim Parameters

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Get-Intl

Note the (optional) UILang parameter will be set to US for the UK Language (as explained above the UK Language is a subset of the US Language. So NO NEED to set this for UK - already ok as being the default US for the UK Language in default WinPE.wim build) - ONLY SET the UILang parameter for NONE UK languages. See the NOTE at the end in the summary for NONE UK Languages.

STEP 5. Unmount the WinPE.wim Image

Dism /unmount-wim /Mountdir:c:\winpe_x86\mount /commit

STEP 6. ADD the TRUE IMAGE HOME 2010 Plus Pack

Remember when you ADD the True Image Home Plugin you have ALREADY done the copype.cmd step. DO NOT repeat the copype.cmd c:\winpe_x86 command/part of the Acronis documentation since you have already done this command here in my documentation. You only need to use the Acronis Plus Pack WinPE ISO BUILDER to add True Image Home 2010 to your UK WinPE

This is just the usual steps to add the Acronis Plugin. Just follow the Acronis Documentation As Usual.

http://kb.acronis.com/content/5421

http://forum.acronis.com/forum/9449

THAT IS IT COMPLETE

SUMMARY (Just Cut and Paste the below lines to build a UK/GB WinPE 3.0 Bootable Media)

copype.cmd x86 c:\winpe_x86
Dism /Mount-WIM /WimFile:c:\winpe_x86\winpe.wim /index:1 /MountDir:c:\winpe_x86\mount
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-SysLocale:en-GB
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-UserLocale:en-GB
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-InputLocale:0809:00000809
Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-TimeZone:"GMT Standard Time"
Dism /unmount-wim /Mountdir:c:\winpe_x86\mount /commit

Now ADD TRUE IMAGE HOME 2010 PlusPack (follow Acronis Documentation) - Remember when you ADD the True Image Home Plugin you have ALREADY done the copype.cmd. DO NOT repeat the copype.cmd c:\winpe_x86 command/part of the Acronis documentation since you have already done this command here in my documentation. You only need to use the Acronis Plus Pack WinPE ISO BUILDER to add True Image to your UK WinPE.

http://kb.acronis.com/content/5421

http://forum.acronis.com/forum/9449

WHERE TO LOOK IN THE REGISTRY FOR YOU OWN COUNTRY Setting

HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\TimeZones\
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE \SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layouts

Regedit - use this command from the search box in the usual windows start orb. Then navigate to the above registry keys.

NOTE FOR LANGUAGES OTHER THAN UK (NONE UK Languages) - Example for french or german you might have to also set the below (french is given below) in STEP 4 above when altering the paramaters - the main language and the fall back language.

You don't have to set the main language for UK/GB since UK / GB is a subset of the US language. Use the below for French. German will be similar.

Note the UILang parameter will be set to US for UK (as explained above UK is a subset of US. So NO NEED to set these for UK - already ok as being the default US for the UK Language in default WinPE.wim build) - ONLY set the UILang parameter below for NONE UK languages.

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-UILang:fr-FR

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-UILangFallback:fr-FR

Also for other languages you might have to add language packages too (see microsoft help documentation for language packs for other languages).

Have fun with your UK Keyboard

Ashley-

Here is my point. You chose to alter the WinPE environment well beyond the scope of the WAIK. You chose to tinker with time accounting. If the time issue is important to you, don't mess with it beyond a WAIK build - which seems to work fine with DST.

WinPE is not meant to be a full operating system environment - it is a recovery environment. You are making it far too complicated, from my point of view. My advice is to stick with the basic WAIK build, staying within the scope of the True Image documentation. It looks to me like you created your own problem. I still fail to see how this is Acronis's fault or problem.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Ashley-

Here is my point. You chose to alter the WinPE environment well beyond the scope of the WAIK. You chose to tinker with time accounting. If the time issue is important to you, don't mess with it beyond a WAIK build - which seems to work fine with DST.

WinPE is not meant to be a full operating system environment - it is a recovery environment. You are making it far too complicated, from my point of view. My advice is to stick with the basic WAIK build, staying within the scope of the True Image documentation. It looks to me like you created your own problem. I still fail to see how this is Acronis's fault or problem.

No this is how Microsoft does it. It is Microsoft's OWN DOCUMENTATION. IT is OFFICIAL Microsoft. Nothing fancy. The Default WinPE.wim is Setup for USA (ie Pacific Standard). Hence ALL YOUR BACKUPS will be out by 9 hours UK Time. Plus you will have a USA Keyboard. Microsoft Explain the SIMPLE Steps to change this to UK.

Well, I can't offer anything more. My advice when modifying WinPE builds is to start with the basic WAIK build (which yours is not - it is beyond WAIK as provided by Microsoft) and then add in steps. If anything causes an issue with TI, toss it.

All I know is that my WinPE uses whatever my system clock says, in my case US Mountain DST. I did no modification of the time zone.

If you make a standard build as described in the tutorial linked above, what does the time read? The same or different than the build you are using?

Gary Darsey wrote:

Well, I can't offer anything more. My advice when modifying WinPE builds is to start with the basic WAIK build (which yours is not - it is beyond WAIK as provided by Microsoft) and then add in steps. If anything causes an issue with TI, toss it.

All I know is that my WinPE uses whatever my system clock says, in my case US Mountain DST. I did no modification of the time zone.

If you make a standard build as described in the tutorial linked above, what does the time read? The same or different than the build you are using?

Yes I have started with the basic WinPE.wim (WinPE 3.0). However since this basic initial start is setup for USA all Backup are 9 hours out with UK Summer Time (since the basic WinPE 3.0 is set to Pacific Standard Time). I am not in the USA but in the UK. So using the basic WinPE give me 9 hours WRONG. That is my point WinPE TimeZone is WRONG. So looking at the Microsoft Website, THEY say you change everything to UK.

So the Basic WinPE and Acronis documentation gives 9 hours WRONG for its backups.

The SIMPLE UK versions is 1 hour out since WinPE does NOT use Summer Time Clock adjustments.

THAT IS MY POINT WinPE is NOT fully compatible with XP, Vista or Windows 7. HENCE My Initial 4 questions in my FIRST POST.

Ashley-

I just changed a system to have GMT, corrected for DST. So instead of 9:30AM local time, it read 4:30PM.

I booted a WinPE 2.0 disk. It read the time as 4:30PM (16:30). It did not give US PST.

Keep it simple. I don't have a WinPE 3.0 disk (I have only XP systems). If this time issue is something specific to WinPE 3.0, I can't tell.

You could do a WinPE 3.0 standard build and a WinPE 2.1 standard build and see how the time is read. You don't have to use a WinPE 3.0 build. Even WinPE 2.0 works fine. Don't mess with the time zone in the build.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Ashley-

I just changed a system to have GMT, corrected for DST. So instead of 9:30AM local time, it read 4:30PM.

I booted a WinPE 2.0 disk. It read the time as 4:30PM (16:30). It did not give US PST.

Keep it simple. I don't have a WinPE 3.0 disk (I have only XP systems). If this time issue is something specific to WinPE 3.0, I can't tell.

You could do a WinPE 3.0 standard build and a WinPE 2.1 standard build and see how the time is read. You don't have to use a WinPE 3.0 build. Even WinPE 2.0 works fine. Don't mess with the time zone in the build.

Yes Correct. But if I change the Clock through Windows 7 it also changes the BIOS Clock. Yes you are correct. HOWEVER mine is is set to UK Local (4:30 pm as you say - DST summer time).. Yes WinPE reads it as 4:30pm. However when I boot back into Windows 7 it reads the WinPE Arconis True Image backup archive as 5:30pm. Win 7 read it 1 hour in the furture BEACAUSE WInPE store 4:30 as GMT. Now win 7 boots and see 4:30 GMT and ADDs 1 hour for summer time. Hence Win 7 shows 5:30. (1 hour in the future). WinPE only use BIOS Time stored as GMT. Where as Windows 7 reads GMT time and adds 1 hour beacause of Summer Time. Hence in the UK, all WinPE backups (or any file modification made in WinPE) will be interpretated as GMT + 1 hour (in the summer). In the winter this problem will not exist since WinPE GMT is Windows 7 GMT also.

NOTE. Any files saved in Windows 7 during uk summer time are read by WinPE 1 hour in the past. So If WIndows 7 saves a file at 4:30 pm (in the summer), WinPE reads this file as 3:30 (1 hour in the past).

Ok, I guess I cannot help at all. Sorry to waste your time.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Ok, I guess I cannot help at all. Sorry to waste your time.

Thanks Anyway.

As a side note here is the reverse. Any files saved in Windows 7 during uk summer time are read by WinPE 1 hour in the past. So If WIndows 7 saves a file at 4:30 pm (in the summer), WinPE reads this file as 3:30 (1 hour in the past).

Windows 7 can use DST (summer time)
WinPE (does NOT).

I might be able to use UTC time instead. However I will have to manually remember to Adjust the Summer Time Hour. Not sure what effect setting Windows 7 to UTC time would be though.

Just another note-

Did a file backup under WinPE @10:44Am US MDT. Showed 10:44AM using @time@ in .tib filename. Time stamp according to XP system: 10:44AM. My WinPE does fine.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Just another note-

Did a file backup under WinPE @10:44Am US MDT. Showed 10:44AM using @time@ in .tib filename. Time stamp according to XP system: 10:44AM. My WinPE does fine.

Check the File Time Stamp in WinPE. Then Check the File Time Stamp in XP (Vista or WIndows 7, whatever you use).

NOTE I mean the DOS or Explorer File Time Stamp. Like when you do a DIR in DOS or you Use the XP, Vista or Windows 7 Explorer. The actual File Time Stamp. NOT the @time.tib addition in acronis.

Time stamp from Properties under WinXP Windows Explorer is 10:44AM. Time stamp in WinPE from A43 File Manager is 10:44AM. Time stamp from command line dir under all conditions is 10:44AM.

Ashley wrote:

Gary Darsey wrote:

Just another note-

Did a file backup under WinPE @10:44Am US MDT. Showed 10:44AM using @time@ in .tib filename. Time stamp according to XP system: 10:44AM. My WinPE does fine.

Check the File Time Stamp in WinPE. Then Check the File Time Stamp in XP (Vista or WIndows 7, whatever you use).

NOTE I mean the DOS or Explorer File Time Stamp. Like when you do a DIR in DOS or you Use the XP, Vista or Windows 7 Explorer. The actual File Time Stamp. NOT the @time.tib addition in acronis.

REMEMBER Windows 7 have a Time Update that alters how the operating system views files. It treats the time stamp differently. Windows 7 sees GMT and looks to see if we are in the summer and adds 1 hour if we are. Microsoft CHANGED the way time stamps work. WIndows 7 has this UPDATE.

So your XP can NOT have the Time Update Windows Update from Microsoft.

Ashley wrote:

Ashley wrote:

Gary Darsey wrote:

Just another note-

Did a file backup under WinPE @10:44Am US MDT. Showed 10:44AM using @time@ in .tib filename. Time stamp according to XP system: 10:44AM. My WinPE does fine.

Check the File Time Stamp in WinPE. Then Check the File Time Stamp in XP (Vista or WIndows 7, whatever you use).

NOTE I mean the DOS or Explorer File Time Stamp. Like when you do a DIR in DOS or you Use the XP, Vista or Windows 7 Explorer. The actual File Time Stamp. NOT the @time.tib addition in acronis.

REMEMBER Windows 7 have a Time Update that alters how the operating system views files. It treats the time stamp differently. Windows 7 sees GMT and looks to see if we are in the summer and adds 1 hour if we are. Microsoft CHANGED the way time stamps work. WIndows 7 has this UPDATE.

So your XP can NOT have the Time Update Windows Update from Microsoft.

Ah something else. My Windows 7 Time Zone is set as follows - UTC London with Daylight Saving (this is the standard for UK)

I would suggest to get rid of (at least) your time zone command in your build:

Dism /image:C:\winpe_x86\mount /Set-TimeZone:"GMT Standard Time"

It is not required for WinPE and seems to be causing you a great deal of problems.

This Update looks very undesirable to me. I like to stick with what works.

Gary Darsey wrote:

This Update looks very undesirable to me. I like to stick with what works.

Yes. The time of your files CHANGE depending if you are in the Summer or Winter (depending when they were originally saved)- When you view them in Windows 7. This modification only WORKS for files dated back to 1987.

Still, it looks like you CHOSE to create this "problem" by telling WinPE to behave the way is does. It does not seem to me to be a problem with WinPE itself - if you don't tell it to use a particular time zone (and you don't have to), it will use the system time with DST correction. You chose to make WinPE operate differently than the scope of the Microsoft WAIK. Yet you seem unwilling to try anything else.

What appears to be happening to me is that WinPE saves the file with BIOS time. It looks like it views this as GMT (off-set by your timezone/region). So the time in WinPE is correct if you do a DOS DIR. Then when Windows 7 boots it reads the Time Stamp set by WinPE. This time stamp appears to have a GMT flag. So Windows 7 sees the GMT flag and says hey but we are in the summer so lets add 1 hour (GMT +1).

WinPE saves as (6:30 pm with GMT flag) - offset by your region.
Windows 7 reads 6:30 and see GMT flag but because of the Microsoft Time Upadate Windows 7 looks to see if we are in the summer. If Summer +1

Hence Windows 7 (for Summer it first Sees 6:30 GMT) and then adds 1 = GMT +1 = 6:30 +1 = 7:30 pm

So WinPE see 6:30 and Windows 7 sees 7:30.

MICROSOFT we need WinPE and Windows 7 to TREAT the Time the SAME. We need Summer Time Clock adjustment in WinPE. Yes I now you have problems with the synchronization of the time in WinPE (with no software programs or internet to sync with or registry to look up if summer is set) BUT please just ADD a command so the user can Set a Flag for DST. As long as the user remembers to set the Flag to DST each time they boot into WinPE everything will be fine - WinPE does NOT need to alter the BIOS clock (we only need the time to be correct with the correct GMT + DST flag set for the duration of the WinPE session so that all file modifications have the correct time stamp). Simple Solution.

If you built the WinPE without time zone statement above, I believe it would treat the time the same. This is not Microsoft's doing, nor Acronis's doing, but your doing. Try a WinPE build either using just the WAIK or without the above statement and see if you get the behavior you seek.

Gary Darsey wrote:

If you built the WinPE without time zone statement above, I believe it would treat the time the same. This is not Microsoft's doing, nor Acronis's doing, but your doing. Try a WinPE build either using just the WAIK or without the above statement and see if you get the behavior you seek.

The basic WinPE.wim is US timezone built in. The default is Pacific Standard Time. This gives me 9 hours in the future.

I think it gets 9 hours from (GMT - 8) = Pacific Standard Time. Now my Windows 7 is set to UTC London + 1 (daylight saving). So Windows 7 add 8 to get GMT neutral (GMT - 8 Pacific Standard + 8 = GMT neutral) then + 1 again for British Summer time (8+1 = 9). Hence without the TimeZone I am 9 hours Wrong (9 hours in the future).

Windows 7 and WinPE are just NOT compatible. They treat the time differently.

Hence my orginal 4 questions in my first post.

Ashely, I've been following this thread and have determined that WINPE defaults to Pacific Standard Time as you have mentioned. I did some Googling on time zones in WINPE and found this http://blogs.msdn.com/winpe/. This Microsoft blog explains why WINPE does not support Daylight Savings Time. In other words with WINPE you will always be off one hour during summer time.

thomasjk wrote:

Ashely, I've been following this thread and have determined that WINPE defaults to Pacific Standard Time as you have mentioned. I did some Googling on time zones in WINPE and found this http://blogs.msdn.com/winpe/. This Microsoft blog explains why WINPE does not support Daylight Savings Time. In other words with WINPE you will always be off one hour during summer time.

CORRECT. It is the Registry and BIOS Update problem. Not knowing if Summer has been applied or not. Hence every time you boot WinPE in the Summer you will get BIOS + 1. Your BIOS will eventually be days out. But how about this

MICROSOFT we need WinPE and Windows 7 to TREAT the Time the SAME. We need Summer Time Clock Time Stamps in WinPE (some type of manual user input flag with GMT + DST). Yes I now you have problems with the synchronization of the time in WinPE (with no software programs or internet to sync with or registry to look up if summer is set) BUT please just ADD a command so the user can Set a Flag for DST. As long as the user remembers to set the Flag to DST each time they boot into WinPE everything will be fine - WinPE does NOT need to alter the BIOS clock (we only need the time to be correct with the correct GMT + DST flag set for the duration of the WinPE session so that all file modifications have the correct time stamp). Simple Solution.

Hence my orignal 4 questions in my very First Post. What effect will this have on my Acronis Backups. Will this one hour cause a problem. Does the time stamp of the acronis backup archive effect anything if it is one hour out.

So Acronis can you please answer what effect this 1 hour out will have on my backups. Hence why I asked my 4 questions right at the start. Can you use WinPE with True Image Home Plus Pack to Backup/Image your hard disk? What effect will this 1 hour out have my my Acronis backups. See my first post for my 4 questions. An answer and advice from ACRONIS would be appreciated.

I contacted Acronis Support but they said to use Build 6053. However I am using build 7046. Then they said use the Linux Bootable disk instead. What use is the Plus Pack if Acronis Support are telling me not to use WinPE and use the Build 6053 (instead of 7046) or the Linux Boot disk (build 6053 also FAILS). However the Linux Boot disk boots with ERRORs (cannot find shared library .009 and .008 files or something) and Bootable Media Builder in Windows also boots the laptop with the same error. Hence the Bootable Media does NOT work on my laptop. However the Plus Pack WinPE does boot fine but with the wrong time stamp.

My FREE Paragon Backup & Recovery 10.1 software (Windows 7 both 32 and 64 bit) all works fine. Paragon seem to be able to boot a computer with a recovery cd and paragon can also backup a computer offline with the recovery cd. 3 weeks I have been trying to boot my computer with the ACRONIS bootable media. What rubbish. Total rubbish ACRONIS.

Thanks

Ashley wrote:

thomasjk wrote:

Ashely, I've been following this thread and have determined that WINPE defaults to Pacific Standard Time as you have mentioned. I did some Googling on time zones in WINPE and found this http://blogs.msdn.com/winpe/. This Microsoft blog explains why WINPE does not support Daylight Savings Time. In other words with WINPE you will always be off one hour during summer time.

CORRECT. It is the Registry and BIOS Update problem. Not knowing if Summer has been applied or not. Hence every time you boot WinPE in the Summer you will get BIOS + 1. Your BIOS will eventually be days out. But how about this

MICROSOFT we need WinPE and Windows 7 to TREAT the Time the SAME. We need Summer Time Clock Time Stamps in WinPE (some type of manual user input flag with GMT + DST). Yes I now you have problems with the synchronization of the time in WinPE (with no software programs or internet to sync with or registry to look up if summer is set) BUT please just ADD a command so the user can Set a Flag for DST. As long as the user remembers to set the Flag to DST each time they boot into WinPE everything will be fine - WinPE does NOT need to alter the BIOS clock (we only need the time to be correct with the correct GMT + DST flag set for the duration of the WinPE session so that all file modifications have the correct time stamp). Simple Solution.

Hence my orignal 4 questions in my very First Post. What effect will this have on my Acronis Backups. Will this one hour cause a problem. Does the time stamp of the acronis backup archive effect anything if it is one hour out.

So Acronis can you please answer what effect this 1 hour out will have on my backups. Hence why I asked my 4 questions right at the start. Can you use WinPE with True Image Home Plus Pack to Backup/Image your hard disk? What effect will this 1 hour out have my my Acronis backups. See my first post for my 4 questions. An answer and advice from ACRONIS would be appreciated.

I contacted Acronis Support but they said to use Build 6053. However I am using build 7046. Then they said use the Linux Bootable disk instead. What use is the Plus Pack if Acronis Support are telling me not to use WinPE and use the Build 6053 (instead of 7046) or the Linux Boot disk (build 6053 also FAILS). However the Linux Boot disk boots with ERRORs (cannot find shared library .009 and .008 files or something) and Bootable Media Builder in Windows also boots the laptop with the same error. Hence the Bootable Media does NOT work on my laptop. However the Plus Pack WinPE does boot fine but with the wrong time stamp.

My FREE Paragon Backup & Recovery 10.1 software (Windows 7 both 32 and 64 bit) all works fine. Paragon seem to be able to boot a computer with a recovery cd and paragon can also backup a computer offline with the recovery cd. 3 weeks I have been trying to boot my computer with the ACRONIS bootable media. What rubbish. Total rubbish ACRONIS.

Thanks

Ashley wrote:

CORRECT. It is the Registry and BIOS Update problem. Not knowing if Summer has been applied or not. Hence every time you boot WinPE in the Summer you will get BIOS + 1. Your BIOS will eventually be days out. But how about this

Ashely, I have been booting WINPE many times on many machines and my BIOS has never been changed not once. I just booted the WINPE disks I have on two different machines and my BIOS clock setting has not changed. I've been using WINPE via BartPE for years and have never seen the BIOS clock change.

I used the WINPE Acronis Plus Pack within the last two weeks to restore to new hardware and I could not detect any impacts. Have you downloaded  the Isolinux bootable media from your account and tried that. You have three different ways to boot and access your restore files:

1. Acronis loader version built from within TI 2010.
2. Isolinux version downloaded from your account http://kb.acronis.com/content/4828
3. WINPE using the Plus Pack bootable media builder feature.

thomasjk wrote:

Ashley wrote:

thomasjk wrote:

Ashely, I've been following this thread and have determined that WINPE defaults to Pacific Standard Time as you have mentioned. I did some Googling on time zones in WINPE and found this http://blogs.msdn.com/winpe/. This Microsoft blog explains why WINPE does not support Daylight Savings Time. In other words with WINPE you will always be off one hour during summer time.

CORRECT. It is the Registry and BIOS Update problem. Not knowing if Summer has been applied or not. Hence every time you boot WinPE in the Summer you will get BIOS + 1. Your BIOS will eventually be days out. But how about this

MICROSOFT we need WinPE and Windows 7 to TREAT the Time the SAME. We need Summer Time Clock Time Stamps in WinPE (some type of manual user input flag with GMT + DST). Yes I now you have problems with the synchronization of the time in WinPE (with no software programs or internet to sync with or registry to look up if summer is set) BUT please just ADD a command so the user can Set a Flag for DST. As long as the user remembers to set the Flag to DST each time they boot into WinPE everything will be fine - WinPE does NOT need to alter the BIOS clock (we only need the time to be correct with the correct GMT + DST flag set for the duration of the WinPE session so that all file modifications have the correct time stamp). Simple Solution.

Hence my orignal 4 questions in my very First Post. What effect will this have on my Acronis Backups. Will this one hour cause a problem. Does the time stamp of the acronis backup archive effect anything if it is one hour out.

So Acronis can you please answer what effect this 1 hour out will have on my backups. Hence why I asked my 4 questions right at the start. Can you use WinPE with True Image Home Plus Pack to Backup/Image your hard disk? What effect will this 1 hour out have my my Acronis backups. See my first post for my 4 questions. An answer and advice from ACRONIS would be appreciated.

I contacted Acronis Support but they said to use Build 6053. However I am using build 7046. Then they said use the Linux Bootable disk instead. What use is the Plus Pack if Acronis Support are telling me not to use WinPE and use the Build 6053 (instead of 7046) or the Linux Boot disk (build 6053 also FAILS). However the Linux Boot disk boots with ERRORs (cannot find shared library .009 and .008 files or something) and Bootable Media Builder in Windows also boots the laptop with the same error. Hence the Bootable Media does NOT work on my laptop. However the Plus Pack WinPE does boot fine but with the wrong time stamp.

My FREE Paragon Backup & Recovery 10.1 software (Windows 7 both 32 and 64 bit) all works fine. Paragon seem to be able to boot a computer with a recovery cd and paragon can also backup a computer offline with the recovery cd. 3 weeks I have been trying to boot my computer with the ACRONIS bootable media. What rubbish. Total rubbish ACRONIS.

Thanks

Ashley wrote:

CORRECT. It is the Registry and BIOS Update problem. Not knowing if Summer has been applied or not. Hence every time you boot WinPE in the Summer you will get BIOS + 1. Your BIOS will eventually be days out. But how about this

Ashely, I have been booting WINPE many times on many machines and my BIOS has never been changed not once. I just booted the WINPE disks I have on two different machines and my BIOS clock setting has not changed. I've been using WINPE via BartPE for years and have never seen the BIOS clock change.

I used the WINPE Acronis Plus Pack within the last two weeks to restore to new hardware and I could not detect any impacts. Have you downloaded  the Isolinux bootable media from your account and tried that. You have three different ways to boot and access your restore files:

1. Acronis loader version built from within TI 2010.
2. Isolinux version downloaded from your account http://kb.acronis.com/content/4828
3. WINPE using the Plus Pack bootable media builder feature.

I Know.

IN TERMS OF WinPE - I know. WinPE only changes the BIOS if you set the Time through the WinPE command Prompt. I was talking about why Microsoft haven't implemented DST in WinPE. I understand the Problems Microsoft have and why they don't use Summer Time stamps. Since I posted last night I have now read all the technical documentation on WinPE and the Expert Comments about the problems with WinPE and Summer Time.

Yes WinPE BOOTS and works fine but as we know WinPE will be 1 hour out with Windows 7 during the Summer. What I was trying to determine was, "What effect will this 1 hour have on my Acronis Backup archive"? Also I was trying to determine, "Since WinPE does NOT use DST/Summer Time, can you still use WinPE to backup/Image your hard disk"? I was just trying to determine if this 1 hour in the future (because of the way WinPE and Windows 7 view time) will effect the Acronis backup archive.

IN TERNS OF ACRONIS Bootable Media - 1) The Linux Downloaded Version ISO boots with ERRORS. 2) The Bootable Media "made" through Media Builder boots with ERRORS too. Both 6053 and 7046 builds have these boot errors. Further if you select Backup Options the computer crashes and reboots. Total Useless. However the Orginal CD (bought 3 weeks and build 5021) boots into recovery FINE and works (however the time is 9 hours in the future). So I have to use to use the CD (build 5021) and Build Bootable Media with the Media Builder. This works with the correct time but is based on build 5021.

Summary

Original CD Build 5021 - Boots and Works But 9 hours in the future.
Build 5021 ("made" with Media Builder) - Boots and Works in the Correct Time.
Build6053 ("made" with Media Builder) - Boots with Errors and Crashes the PC when Backup Options Selected.
Build6053 Dowload Linux ISO from My Acronis Account - Boots with Errors and Crashes the PC when Backup Options Selected.
Build6053 Download Linux ISO form Acronis Official Support Link Service - Boots with Errors and Crashes the PC when Backup Options Selected.
Build7056 ("made" with Media Builder) - Boots with Errors.
Build7046 Dowload Linux ISO from My Acronis Account - Boots with Erros and Crashes the PC when Backup Options Selected.
Build7046 Download Linux ISO form Acronis Official Support Link Service - Boots with Errors and Crashes the PC when Backup Options Selected.

The Boot errors are either ST Module errors or Can NOT find Shared Library (.009 and .008 or something)

WinPE ("made with PlusPack") ALL BUILDS - Boots and Works but 1 hour out (as previously discussed).

So I can either use Build 5021 (that works but is old and has other errors that future builds fix) OR I can use WinPE (New Build7046) but my backups are Time Stamped Wrong.

All I am trying to do is Get my ORIGINAL 4 Questions in my FIRST POST answered.

I don't want to add too much fuel to this debate - my WinPE based antivirus CD defaults to my local time = maybe the provider has prefiddled the wim. However one from a German company defaults to either US or German timewith US or German keyboard - so they've obviously fiddled with the WIM - which always alters my BIOS time backwards between 10 and 18 hours - very annoying when rebooting back into Windows - TI thinks it hasn't run.

So for people in the UK making their WIM into a GMT version is worthwhile - just you won't be able to get BST unless you really go all out and make the necessary alterations to include the installer time date drop down box - this can be done, but I've never done that. After all your Vista or W7 installer is WinPE.

Colin-

This is not a debate, it is a very interesting learning process (at least for me).

As I am in the Western US, and since I don't really pay much attention to the backup timestamps (for me it is not important), I did not notice the issue. But I have learned. I was able to create a backup file with my system set to GMT (with DST correction) and booting a base non-time altered WinPE. Reading the timestamp back in XP, it was 2 hours ahead, which makes sense with PST+9 for GMT with DST correction. But I found a fairly simple solution. One can readily change the timestamp of files with the TOUCH command of JP Software's free Take Command Console LE http://www.jpsoft.com/tccledes.htm - which has extensive scripting capabilites.

But I would NOT change the timestamp of the TIB file. True Image could not care less what the timestamp of the file is according to any OS. From what I can tell, True Image write the local time of the WinPE recovery environment into the file metadata database, and it uses this time for internal purposes. Regardless of the timestamp, the TIB file has the local time of the backup written in this metadata. So even if the WinPE is timezone corrected, the local time will be used, and this time is invariant. True Image does not appear to use any UTC conversion. To an OS, the time of backup file may appear to be "in the future" according to UTC conversion and DST differences, but True Image does not appear to care.

I do not think it wise to fiddle around with any TIB file outside of True Image. True Image doesn't appear to worry about UTC conversions. At least for me, I think I will follow suit.

Thanks for bringing this issue up, Ashley. I've learned a great deal from the experiments I've done.

DISCLAIMER: THESE COMMENTS ARE THOSE OF A PERSON WHO DOES NOT REPRESENT ACRONIS IN ANY CAPACITY

Gary,

I missed the bit about altering tib files timestamp - oops.

Even though I do not represent Acronis, I will address some of the issues unfortunately and unfairly labelled "problems" in the title of this thread. I don't want any readers of this thread to be mislead into thinking there is a problem when none exists.

WinPE TimeZone is incorrect - WinPE doesn't use DayLight Saving Time (Summer Time Clock adjustments). True statement. However, also totally irrelevant for the reasons given in my comment #33 above.

However there is a PROBLEM since WinPE does NOT use Daylight Saving Time -- Completely untrue for reasons given in my comment #33 above.

1. Is it ok to use WinPE with TrueImageHome PlusPack to BACKUP / Image your Hard Disk? Yes, this is an excellent way to perform disk image backups and restores.

2. Does it matter that WinPE Time Stamps the True Image Backup archive with GMT (1 hour wrong) instead of recognizing it as GMT + 1 Hour Daylight Saving Time?

3. Are there any consequences of this wrong Time Stamp 1 hour into the future?

4. Or is there an option in WinPE to set the Time Zone to GMT + Daylight Saving Time?

No, no, and no. All totally irrelevant for reasons given in my comment #33 above.

Gary Darsey wrote:

Even though I do not represent Acronis, I will address some of the issues unfortunately and unfairly labelled "problems" in the title of this thread. I don't want any readers of this thread to be mislead into thinking there is a problem when none exists.

WinPE TimeZone is incorrect - WinPE doesn't use DayLight Saving Time (Summer Time Clock adjustments). True statement. However, also totally irrelevant for the reasons given in my comment #33 above.

However there is a PROBLEM since WinPE does NOT use Daylight Saving Time -- Completely untrue for reasons given in my comment #33 above.

1. Is it ok to use WinPE with TrueImageHome PlusPack to BACKUP / Image your Hard Disk? Yes, this is an excellent way to perform disk image backups and restores.

2. Does it matter that WinPE Time Stamps the True Image Backup archive with GMT (1 hour wrong) instead of recognizing it as GMT + 1 Hour Daylight Saving Time?

3. Are there any consequences of this wrong Time Stamp 1 hour into the future?

4. Or is there an option in WinPE to set the Time Zone to GMT + Daylight Saving Time?

No, no, and no. All totally irrelevant for reasons given in my comment #33 above.

At last my questions answered. Allbeit from a non Acronis source. That is all I was trying to find out. HOWEVER, there are 3 important points given below:

1. There is a potiental problem with WinPE since it views time differently from Windows 7 (as discussed the NTFS timestamps will be viewed different in the Summer when the local timezone uses Daylight Saving Time).

2. TimeStamps - I mean the NTFS TimeStamps (NOT the Acronis addition to the .tib file with automatic time generation @time).

3. WinPE TimeZone is Incorrect where countries apply Daylight Saving Time (Summer Time Clock adjustments) - WinPE does NOT use Daylight Saving Time so the WinPE Time Zone is incorrect during the Summer (in the UK where Daylight Saving Time/DST is applied/used).

Thanks Gary for answering my 4 questions. You see, I want to do ALL my system/hard disk Images offline. And since WinPE can boot my machine without errors and find all the correct drivers, it makes sense to use Microsoft WinPE. As such it then makes sence for me to follow the Microsoft Documentation to Customize the Default WinPE for the UK TimeZone, UK Keyborad and UK Language (as the Microsoft Help Documentation and Microsoft Technet Forum explains).

Since I was having problems with the Acronis Recovery Bootable Media, I started doing tests to try and eliminate the problem. That is how I noticed the discrepancy with the TimeStamps. A little investigation found the Pacific Standard Time being built into the Default WinPE image from Microsoft. THEN it was a case of, "hey!" will these incorrect timestamps and the difference between how WinPE and Windows 7 DIFFER in their treatment of time affect the Acronis Backups. Since any Incremental or Differential Backup is based on File Changes and TimeStamp Changes. THIS TIME ISSUE IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IF IT AFFECTS Incremental or Differential Backups?

Another thought. What will happen if you do a Full backup with WinPE. Then ADD differential or Incremental backups carried out in the Full Acronis program in Windows 7. Will this mixing and matching affect the backup (Since WinPE and WIndows 7 treat time differently) ?

What would be interesting would be to get an official statement from Acronis. Since WinPE and Windows 7 treat time differently, then during the UK Summer Time the NTFS TimeStamps will be different in WinPE and Windows 7. Will this effect the Acronis backup carried out in/with WinPE ? If there is an effect on the Acronis backup (carried out with WinPE), is there a solution?

From an actual imaging point of view, as TI is only interested in used or altered disk sectors the time stamps shouldn't be a problem. Files and folder backups might be a different kettle of fish though. As you won't be able to run NSB successfully anyway in a PE environment, that'd be one worry out of the way, same as you won't be scheduling tasks, so TI won't be confused by times changing.

bodgy wrote:

From an actual imaging point of view, as TI is only interested in used or altered disk sectors the time stamps shouldn't be a problem. Files and folder backups might be a different kettle of fish though. As you won't be able to run NSB successfully anyway in a PE environment, that'd be one worry out of the way, same as you won't be scheduling tasks, so TI won't be confused by times changing.

ACE. Thanks. I hope you are right. This is how I will be using Acronis True Image Software:

1. Bootable WinPE Media - to take Images of my Hard Disk (manually - as of when I decide) .
2. Full Acronis Software in Windows 7 - to take File and Folder Backups (maybe both manually and on a schedule).

I have only had the Acronis software for 3 weeks. I haven't tried the Non Stop Backup facility yet. Although the the Try & Decide was Excellent.

Thanks

2. TimeStamps - I mean the NTFS TimeStamps (NOT the Acronis addition to the .tib file with automatic time generation @time).

It goes much deeper than this "addition". The time is written to the TIB file metadata database. You could leave off this @time@ label - that is for the user. True Image will write the actual time to the file. Within True Image, this time will always be the same, regardless of how any OS views it. You will not be manipulating TIB files oustide of True Image, or at least you shouldn't be.

For WinPE file alterations OUTSIDE of True Image, the lack of DST correction could be an issue. But I would hesitate to make any such alterations within WinPE anyway. But the timestamp for the OS can be altered as I pointed out above if this is an issue for non-True Image files.

Gary Darsey wrote:

2. TimeStamps - I mean the NTFS TimeStamps (NOT the Acronis addition to the .tib file with automatic time generation @time).

It goes much deeper than this "addition". The time is written to the TIB file metadata database. You could leave off this @time@ label - that is for the user. True Image will write the actual time to the file. Within True Image, this time will always be the same, regardless of how any OS views it. You will not be manipulating TIB files oustide of True Image, or at least you shouldn't be.

For WinPE file alterations OUTSIDE of True Image, the lack of DST correction could be an issue. But I would hesitate to make any such alterations within WinPE anyway. But the timestamp for the OS can be altered as I pointed out above if this is an issue for non-True Image files.

OK Great.

I see. So the TimeStamp is important to True Image since it wrights the time into a metadata database. Another couple of questions for you then. I assume then, that True Image uses the PC Bios to obtain the time? So does True Image wright the PC BIOS Time into this metadata database the SAME regardless of whether you are using WinPE or Windows 7 (remember WinPE and Windows 7 treat NTFS timestamps differently). Because according to the Microsoft Technicial docs, it points out that it is important to Set the Correct TimeZone in WinPE or the NTFS TimeStamps will be Incorrect. But you appear to be saying that NTFS TimeStamps are not important to True Image since True Images uses whatever the PC BIOS says.

Any file modification done in WinPE during the summer will have a wrong NFTS timestamp. So the NFTS timestamp will be different to the True Image metadata database time recorded. Does that affect the backup archive? Also, if you take a Full Backup using WinPE then add an Incremental Backup using the Windows 7 version of True Image will this affect the backup since there is a mismatch with the NFTS timestamp with the metadata timestamp recorded.

So you appear to be saying that NTFS timestamps are not important?

You've got it. WinPE will read the system clock, which will be correct for standard or daylight time - it is the real "current time". This time is written to the TIB file as a invariable time, without any UTC accounting. Within True Image, this time will be correct, although according to the OS, the time for the file will be wrong during DST. If you did the same backup at the same time under Windows, the time written to the TIB file would be the same, but the NTFS timestamp would be different from that done under WinPE. So these files, from the OS point of view, would have different times, but according to True Image would have the same time. So you could due a full backup under WinPE and an incremental under Windows (but I would not recommend this), and it would not matter to True Image at all what the NTFS timestamp is.

Look at it this way - by writing the actual system time into the TIB file, True Image avoids the "ineffable twaddle" of Windows/NTFS timestamp bookkeeping. A TIB file is a package. The "outside" of the package is what an OS sees, and here is where it puts its timestamp, files attributes, etc., that are necessary to work in the OS. The "inside" of the package is what True Image controls, sees, and gets its information from, regardless of what the package is wrapped with. From the point of view of True Image, NTFS timestamps are totally meaningless. And this is a good thing!

For non-True Image uses, this difference in timestamps may (or may not) be important. But this has nothing to do with True Image, and Acronis has no control over this. By having True Image work the way it does, Acronis has avoided all the problems.

But as I tried to point out before, WinPE is predominately a recovery environment. It is not "full Windows on bootable media". The entire image is loaded into RAM and runs from RAM, and one cannot make it totally mimic a full Windows system. If you load up the image to too much unneeded clutter, the actual performance of True Image may be affected. At least for me, I want the best disk image possible, so I try to keep the WinPE as simple as possible.

Gary Darsey wrote:

You've got it. WinPE will read the system clock, which will be correct for standard or daylight time - it is the real "current time". This time is written to the TIB file as a invariable time, without any UTC accounting. Within True Image, this time will be correct, although according to the OS, the time for the file will be wrong during DST. If you did the same backup at the same time under Windows, the time written to the TIB file would be the same, but the NTFS timestamp would be different from that done under WinPE. So these files, from the OS point of view, would have different times, but according to True Image would have the same time. So you could due a full backup under WinPE and an incremental under Windows (but I would not recommend this), and it would not matter to True Image at all what the NTFS timestamp is.

Look at it this way - by writing the actual system time into the TIB file, True Image avoids the "ineffable twaddle" of Windows/NTFS timestamp bookkeeping. A TIB file is a package. The "outside" of the package is what an OS sees, and here is where it puts its timestamp, files attributes, etc., that are necessary to work in the OS. The "inside" of the package is what True Image controls, sees, and gets its information from, regardless of what the package is wrapped with. From the point of view of True Image, NTFS timestamps are totally meaningless. And this is a good thing!

For non-True Image uses, this difference in timestamps may (or may not) be important. But this has nothing to do with True Image, and Acronis has no control over this. By having True Image work the way it does, Acronis has avoided all the problems.

But as I tried to point out before, WinPE is predominately a recovery environment. It is not "full Windows on bootable media". The entire image is loaded into RAM and runs from RAM, and one cannot make it totally mimic a full Windows system. If you load up the image to too much unneeded clutter, the actual performance of True Image may be affected. At least for me, I want the best disk image possible, so I try to keep the WinPE as simple as possible.

Ace. Thank you.

However you do appear to be miss-interpreting my initial post. I am NEW to True Image. I noticed and investigated a TimeStamp discrepancy with using True Image under WinPE and Windows 7. Now I can NOT use other Acronis Bootable Media (as previously stated) since they either crash/reboot my PC or load with errors. So I tried WinPE. WinPE works fine but I had a TimeStamp discrepancy. So I investigated by first contacting Acronis Customer Support (who don't have a clue and where totally useless) and then by posting in the Acronis Forum.

That was the point of my post. I was trying to find out if I could use WinPE to image my hard disk. You appear to be stating that WinPE is mainly a recovery tool/environment. That is what I want to know and why I asked this in my FIRST POST.

OK then. If WinPE is for recovery only. Downloadable Linux ISO boots the PC with errors and crashes the PC when backup options is selected. Bootable Media made with Media Builder boots the PC with Errors and crashes the PC when backup options is selected. Then how do you suguest I boot my PC with Bootable Media. If NONE of the Bootable Media works and crashes the PC then Acronis True Image is useless to me. So far I have spent 3 weeks trying to boot my PC with bootable media. I was expecting the software to work out of the box.

I am sorry to say this, but I am now seriously considering going to either Norton or Paragon for my Backup & Recovery Solution.

WinPE was my last hope with Acronis and if WinPE is for recovery only then Acronis Software is useless for my PC.

No it is both backup and recovery. I just mean the environment of WinPE is not a full "Windows" environment, it is a limited environment.

Under WinPE, True Image disk backups and recoveries work well. But just as WinPE is not a full "Windows" environment, True Image as installed via the Acronis WinPE ISO builder is not the full True Image product as run under Windows. But the core of True Image - the disk backup and recovery parts - work well. I use True Image only with the WinPE bootable media, but I am interested only in full disk images, and I think these should be made without Windows running. I use other tools for file backups under Windows.

Before abandoning True Image completely, you may want to consider the WinPE provided by the Mustang PE Builder:

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilder.htm

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilderPlugin…

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilderReason…

This version is not supported by Acronis, but it's capabilities may be useful to you.

Gary Darsey wrote:

No it is both backup and recovery. I just mean the environment of WinPE is not a full "Windows" environment, it is a limited environment.

Under WinPE, True Image disk backups and recoveries work well. But just as WinPE is not a full "Windows" environment, True Image as installed via the Acronis WinPE ISO builder is not the full True Image product as run under Windows. But the core of True Image - the disk backup and recovery parts - work well. I use True Image only with the WinPE bootable media, but I am interested only in full disk images, and I think these should be made without Windows running. I use other tools for file backups under Windows.

Before abandoning True Image completely, you may want to consider the WinPE provided by the Mustang PE Builder:

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilder.htm

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilderPlugin…

http://www.mechrest.com/plugins/MustangPEBuilder/MustangPEBuilderReason…

This version is not supported by Acronis, but it's capabilities may be useful to you.

That is fine. As long as WinPE is able to backup/image my hard disk that is ok. I only ever take images of my disk offline. To make sure the 1 hour in future NTFS timestamp doesn't cause a problem I will not use my pc/or add to the backup archive until 1 hour later. Slightly inconvenient, especially when I start my new pc build and start imaging in stages but at least it should mean the extra hour will not effect the backups. Of cause in the winter everthing should be ok. In my opinion I think Microsoft have made a mistake having different time systems with WinPE and Windows 7.

I have always understood that WinPE is not a full operating system. Thanks for the Mustang links but I prefer to stay with official companies that I feel I can trust (especially where backups are concerned) - I don't want my initial image to be contaminated with virus. I am fully comfortable with customizing WinPE at the command line. My UK keyboard works fine with the information I extracted from my pc registry.

My advice to Acronis, is that having boot errors on a backup/recovery product does NOT fill you with confidence. Especially when every free version I have tried from Paragon works and boots the PC FIRST TIME.

Thanks anyway.

Ashley,

Did you download the SAFE version of the recovery environment, it's available from the Media Plugins in your Acronis account?

Once installed make a new Rescue CD - the SAFE version uses BIOS calls to access hardware.

In order to know why the standard rescue CD crashses your machine, we would need to know more about your motherboard (chipset etc) what type of internal/external disks and whether or not you have an external USB hub connected or card readers etc.

bodgy wrote:

Ashley,

Did you download the SAFE version of the recovery environment, it's available from the Media Plugins in your Acronis account?

Once installed make a new Rescue CD - the SAFE version uses BIOS calls to access hardware.

In order to know why the standard rescue CD crashses your machine, we would need to know more about your motherboard (chipset etc) what type of internal/external disks and whether or not you have an external USB hub connected or card readers etc.

Bootable Media Problems: Summary of Builds

Build 5021 Original Boxed CD

Build5021 Orginal CD - Boots Laptop OK and Works Fine (However Backup Archive 9 Hours in Future).
Build5021 Bootable "made" with Media Builder - Boots Laptop OK and Works Fine (Correct Time).

The Original Boxed CD Build 5021 works. However there are other bugs in this build that have been fixed in future builds. I bought my original CD (build 5021) three weeks ago. When I registered and logged in to my Acronis account there was a new Build 6053. Summary of results below:

Build 6053

Build6053 Bootable "made" with Media Builder - Boots Laptop with ST Module Error (Crashes Laptop when Backup Options Selected).
Build6043 Download LINUX ISO - Boots Laptop with Shared Library Error - forget what code now (Crashes Laptop when Backup Options Selected).
Build6053 WinPE (Default WinPE) - Boots Laptop OK (Crashes Laptop when Backup Options Selected).

Build 7046

Build7046 Bootable "made" with Media Builder - Boots Laptop (Shared Library Error libpcap.so.0.9.4).
Build7046 Download LINUX ISO - Boots Laptop (Shared Library Error libpcap.so.0.8 or something this time) ALSO Crashed Laptop when Backup Options Selected.
Build7046 WinPE (Default WinPE) - Boots Laptop OK and Works Fine (However Backup Archive 9 Hours in Furture).
Build7046 WinPE (Customized UK Keyboard/UK TimeZone) - Boots Laptop OK and Works Fine (only 1 Hour in Future - because of British Summer Time).

SAFE MEDIA

Build5021 SAFE MEDIA - Can't remember
Build6053 SAFE MEDIA - Crashed the Laptop when Backup Options Selected
Build7046 SAFE MEDIA - Boots the Laptop - Backups Super Slow. 5 minutes to backup 400 MB [meg] (WinPE backups up 16 GB [gig] in this time). Causes Fan on Laptop to start spinning like crazy. I don't like the sound of this. Has this product been properly tested? Safe Media does NOT sound very safe to me. Doesn't recognize eSATA External Hard Disk, have to use External USB Hard Disk in Safe Media. If I add a Microsoft Wireless Mouse and Keyboard they will randomly crash True Image in Safe Media.

The Original Boxed CD Build 5021 works. However there are other bugs in this build that have been fixed in future builds.

Laptop with Intel Core 2 Duo
Motherboard (PM45 Intel Express Mobile Series 4 with NVIDIA graphics card)
Internal Hard Disk - SATA II Western Digital 2.5 inch
External Hard Disk - I either connect a Western Digital 3.5 inch eSATA or Western Digital 2.5 inch USB 2.0

All results are the same with or without the external hard disks connected. All combinations have been tried. I have also tried bootable media based on CD and SD Card Reader Realtek. All results are the same whatever combinations are tried.

Shared Library Error libpcap.so.0.9.4 unable to open file. No such file. No such directory

The most important part of a backup and recovery solution is the recovery bootable media. Being able to recover. I do NOT have any confidence when I see Shared Library Error libpcap.so.0.9.4 unable to open file. No such file. No such directory. Then when the SAFE MEDIA causes the FAN to SPIN LIKE CRAZY that is your confidence completely and totally gone.

Still no answers for this then?

I would expect the SAFE mode to be even slower than normal Linux mode so that is more annoying than a problem. I can think why the fan will be going at full pelt, though it doesn't happen when I use the rescue CD, but does sometimes happen within Windows.

Is your above comment concerning the SD cardreader?

Colin B wrote:

I would expect the SAFE mode to be even slower than normal Linux mode so that is more annoying than a problem. I can think why the fan will be going at full pelt, though it doesn't happen when I use the rescue CD, but does sometimes happen within Windows.

Is your above comment concerning the SD cardreader?

The Download Bootable ISO is just too slow. Takes all day to image my disk. However WinPE images take around 2 to 3 minutes for about 20 GB. WinPE appears to be the way to go. Just this annoying 1 hour out in british summer time. For the normal bootable media made with media builder from within the full windows product, I am going to try downloading Build 7046 again and re-installing (in order to try and solve the libpcap.so.0.9.4 error). Although since WinPE is working so well I think this is the best option for me.