Disc backup fails Not enough memory (0x70002)

Try using the Bootable Media Disk to perform a Disk Mode backup and see if that helps. If you look at your disk in Windows Disk Management Console does it show any data in this 7GB partition? Please post a screenshot capture of Disk Management.

screen shot of disk manager attached.

In 'Create Bootable Media' the WD external hard drive does not come up as an option. I can only create an ISO image for it. Looking elsewhere it is possible to make these drives bootable but I'm hoping not to have to as I would probably have to dismantle the device to remove a jumper. I can't find an easier way. Anyway the problem seems to be with Aronis not coping with the hibernation partition rather than the external drive not being bootable.

Seems similar to this thread:
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/56361

Do you have SSD caching on? Do you have any option in the BIOS to use Rapid Start, or some other Intel advanced option? Does it change anything if you turn these options on or off?

Thanks Pat.

Both SSD caching and rapid start are enabled. Disabling did not help. I had looked at the other thread and again now. I can't see anything there that might help. The thread talks about systems crashing, locking up, rebooting. Mine does none of these. Acronis disk backup just doesn't work and if a partition backup includes the hibernation partition the backup fails with the same Not enough memory error. Like those contributing to the other thread my machine is Haswell (i7-4600U).

David

David,

Have tried running a repair install of TI 2014? Just in case something didn't quite register correctly the first time around.

Colin,

I've just done a repair install and still no go. I've logged the issue with Acronis support and hopefully they will have a suggestion. This is a very new machine and I suppose we can't expect TI or other programs to be fully compatible with every new system. It might need a tweak in an update to sort out this bug.

David

David,

The Lenovo machines having this 7GB partition are factory set to use that partition for system recovery operations and apparently in your case to store machine hibernation data when the machine enters a hibernation state as defined by power configuration options. As is indicated in Disk Management Console view this partition is empty under normal operating conditions. Why you are receiving this not enough memory error is somewhat of a mystery however, you might still be able to perform a full disk mode backup.

As a workaround try this:

Using the Disk Management Console assign a temporary drive letter to this 7GB partition.
Exit the Disk Management Console
Open the ATI app and attempt a full disk mode backup

If successful great, after backup completes or fails whichever the case may be, reopen the Disk Management Console and remove the temporary drive letter for the 7GB partition that you assigned in the previous steps.

I have encountered precisely the exact same problem as David described above with Acronis 2014, including the same error message and the Tag ID. It's a shame that David never came back to tell about the response he may have received from Acronis Support, or lack thereof...

In my case:

Operation with partition '4-0' was terminated.
Details: Not enough memory (0x70002)
Tag = 0x82DB9339B70C3B24

I am using Windows 7/64 in a Lenovo W530 laptop with 8 Gb RAM and 4 partitions:
-System_Dr (no tetter assigned)
-Unnamed Partition (no letter)
-ThinkPad W530 (C:)
-Lenovo Recovery (Q:)

For whatever reason, the Unnamed Partition, according to Acronis, has 7 GBs assigned to it, but does not appear on Windows Explorer...

I still did not contact Acronis as I was hopeful of encountering some clarification for the problem in these forums. I have been using many different versions of Acronis since about 2006 and never, ever, had any issue, either backing up or recovering, so what on earth can be causing this problem?

To be thorough, I had several issues for the first time just days ago with Acronis 2015 and already uninstalled it, after reading all the bad comments about it. I was previously using Acronis 2012 in this same laptop and uninstalled it lask week to install 2015 and then uninstalled 2015 to install 2014. So ATI 2015 has been the sole exception til 2 days ago... Now comes 2014 too? I surely hope not!...

Any ideas about what may be causing this strange behavior? For example, can I just get rid of the Unamed Partition, or would that bring me problems? May be I could just backup all the others, as David suggested...

Update:

I had a chat with Acronis Support regarding this problem and I was a little surprised with the recommendation the agent provided me. He said that it looked like I might have some bad sectors in my drive. And he recommended this:

-- Open Command Prompt as Admin;
-- Type following command: chkdsk /r /f;
-- Select Y to perform check disk after restart of the machine.

I still did not do this. I'm just a little reluctant because, from what I read in some research and not being familiar with it, I fear about any possible bad consequences that may arise from it that will be well beyond my abilities to control and resolve, mindful that I don't have a fresh backup to recover from... My computer does not show any signs of problems or malfunctions, which contributes to my indecision.

Unless... Unless this behavior during the backup process has anything to do with my installing and uninstalling Acronis 15... Until then, I was doing regular backups with Acronis 2012 with no visible issues. I tend to think that something might have happened during or because of the install/uninstall of the ATI 2015.

Are my fears justified or should I just proceed with the agent recommendation?

Please advise.

Checkdisk can be run in non repair mode, but if it does find something you will need to run it again with chkdsk /r (the /r implies /f so you don't need to use both switches).

If you want to feel safe the first time around, run chkdsk (no switches) on your drive, after that run chkdsk with the /f switch, this scans for bad sectors but doesn't repair them, but does repair bad folder and file information. The /r switch performs an /f plus scans for and repairs bad sectors.

Have you tried making an image from the recovery media so that Windows isn't running, this might allow TI to make an image without reporting a windows error.

Hi Colin,
Thanks for your continued support. I think it is a good idea. I'll try to get a backup with the recovery media. In case I succeed, I'll be much more comfortable performing those fixes you suggest in the beginning. Time is getting late in my neck of the woods... So I'll try that tomorrow and will report the results.

LinYu

After no success here I contacted Acronis support and spent a lot of time running troubleshooting and log generating routines which I uploaded to Acronis support. It all came to nothing and eventually the support crew simply flicked the problem on to the development people and were then very keen for me to agree that the problem was resolved!! It wasn't and as there has been no update for Acronis 2014 it still isn't resolved. On my Lenovo and yours you can't do a disk backup. There is nothing wrong with the hard disc, the problem is with Acronis.

David

Enchantech in post #1 wrote:

Try using the Bootable Media Disk to perform a Disk Mode backup and see if that helps

So far, it does not appear that this has actually been tried above.

The "Create bootable media" is NOT designed to make a usb hard drive bootable. Making a usb hard drive bootable must be done using a different method--not the create bootable media option.

The create bootable media
1. will make a CD or DVD bootable.

2. Create an iso file which can then be burnt to a blank CD or DVD using
Right click on iso file and chose the "Open with" and choose the Windows Disk Image Burner as the burn option.

3. Make a flash drive Acronis bootable. Use something OTHER THAN a SanDisk brand.

4. Please report back with the results.

This link may be of interest. I have not used the product.
http://www.fact-reviews.com/info/diskfresh.aspx

Creating a Disk image backup using the TI CD. Disk is selected.
http://forum.acronis.com/sites/default/files/forum/2009/12/7027/Disk-op…

Also, more info about creating bootable media.
Click my signature link 1 and review item AGH-13.

----------------------------------------
Notes added Oct 23
A screen capture of his Windows Disk Management and DiskPart and BCD file cdan be found at this link
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/56630?page=1#comment-211304

Also he has indicated successful Recovery CD disk image backups of all partitions by versions
2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2015. Only version 2014 fails to create a full disk image with the memory error message.
http://forum.acronis.com/forum/56630?page=1#comment-211304

Hi Grover and David,

Thanks for your valued contributions. I had a busy day today, after yesterday's bad-weather storm over my region, and I see much to be digested in your messages, so I may need some time. In fact, it seems I may have a job in front of me...

At first impression, I get the idea that David's experience seems to imply that he did not find a solution by means of Acronis. Could I ask how did you finally come up to solve your particular situation, please?

Meanwhile, I ran a check with PC/Doctor and two of the tests came out with errors. I cannot decipher what was found wrong, but I may post the error message here, in case you think that it might provide any hint on the source or nature of the problem. Could it be possible that the problem with the backup may be related to some bad sectors in my SSD disk drive?

Grover, the bootable media you mention, you are not referring to Acronis Rescue Media, are you? If not, what would I do after booting from that bootable CD or flash drive? Sorry for all this tutoring requests... I'm quite ignorant on computer science, so please be patient and bear with this ignoramus... :(

Thanks for all your help and please let me go back to my homework...

(Edited to correct name to Grover instead of Colin. My apologies to both...)

Grover,

I read the materials from the links you included about DiskFresh. You say you have not used the program. In one quite long review of the product, someone with supposedly some solid knowledge in computer science did not seem too enthusiastic about it either, giving it a meager 3-star overall review. I mean, at this stage of my situation and amid this level of uncertainty, I don't feel like jumping to the water yet...

As I said before, and please feel free to correct me if you feel my position is unjustified or excessively cautious, I would very much prefer to get a backup first, so that I would have some to lean on, in case of problems arising from the use of these fixing tools and my system becomes unbootable.

I've been also in touch with the Lenovo forums but no breakthrough came in yet...

What if I try a backup from the Acronis Rescue Media? Do you see any merit on it, worth giving it a try? Or would it be tantamount the same as the Acronis backup from the Windows environment?

At this stage, I cannot even contemplate calling on Lenovo's warranty, since there's nothing that clearly shows the issue is hardware related; on the other hand, calling a "computer clinic" would have the potential to invalidate my three-year warranty, witch is only several moths old...

David seems to be sure the problem lays exclusively with Acronis 2014. But this would not explain why so many more people using ATI 2014 don't experience the same problem. All I know (repeating what I said before) is this:

I used ATI 2012 in this machine before with no issues. Then, after installing and uninstalling ATI-2015 (and before deciding on using ATI-2014) I briefly had 2012 reinstalled, and because I had not been able to restore an ATI-2015 backup, I made an attempt at restoring a backup I had from prior to uninstalling version 2012. I was hoping to bring my machine to a status prior to the ATI 2015 mess. I still have various backups made with 2012. But the attempt failed at the point of indicating the partitions that were to be restored. At that point, upon picking up the last partition, the error message was "Not enough memory", as I think I mentioned before, which seems reminiscent of the message I receive when I try now to make a backup with ATI2014.

Hope these additional details may shed some more light on the issue.

Many thanks for all your help and patience...

The bootable flash drive or CD provides a bootable disk/USB drive with a standalone ATI 2014 application that all loads into system RAM which will allow you to perform the functions of ATI 2014 app without being in a Windows environment.

If for some reason Windows or another application is the root cause of your problems using the bootable media will get you around those issues. Additionally, if your disk does have bad sectors you will know it because the application on the bootable media will indicate this and you can then decide on a repair or replace action for the offending disk.

Another plus here is that if in fact there is a problem with your RAM that is causing the "not enough memory" error that problem will surface as well.

So as I pointed out earlier in this thread, make a boot media disk, figure out how to boot your machine from it, (usually takes some changes in the bios to get it working), run the application. If the app starts then attempt a Disk Mode backup of your system drive. Post your results.

Hi Grover and Enchantech,

It looks like what you suggest would be worth trying and I'm willing to try it, provided that I know beforehand how exactly to do it. First off, would this bootable CD or flash drive be the same as the Acronis Rescue Media?

If not, how do I get one (step by step, please...)? And also in this case, what am I expected to do after booting from these media? Please bear with me...

Thanks.

@David Dickson:

Sorry to keep bugging you people, I beg your patience, but could you please explain how you ended up resolving this problem at your side?

From what you wrote, I gather that no bad sectors or any other kind of damage was present in your disc, am I correct? So, what solution did you find to get rid of the issue? This would be of paramount importance for me, perhaps being exactly what I may also need to do here.

Thanks.

Meanwhile, I ran a memory check with PC/Doctor 5 and all tests passed except the last two (Module 20 test, and Moving Inversion test) which both came with a similar error message:

Error Message: Internal Exception in DiagModule::start(): Structured Exception: EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION Stack Trace: (end stack trace) *****NOTE*****: Use stacktraceparser.exe to translate the instruction offsets into function names. Test Finished: Internal Error

Then someone suggested that I should use Windows own memory check. I repeated this test 5 times (each check involving 2 passes) and the results were invariably the same: "No memory errors encountered".

Does someone have any comments about this contradictory results between PC/Doctor and Windows? Which one could be considered more "trustful"?...

Thanks for any help you can provide.

While waiting for help...

...I tried a Backup using Acronis 2014 Rescue Media. The process went exactly like the backups I tried before in the Windows environment. All went fine to the point where only about a 1/4 inch (about 1 cm) of the progress bar remained to fill with green.

Then, suddenly and without any warning or error message, the system halted with a buffered sound and a black screen, and immediately went to "Rebooting...".

Any comments will be very welcomed.

Thanks.

I never found a solution to this problem. Below is a summary of my problem as emailed to Acronis support many months ago. I ended up buying the program hoping that an update fixing this bug would be along soon but it never came. On my Lenovo X1 I cannot do a full disc back up because the program cannot handle the hibernation partition. As I said before there is nothing wrong with my disc that I have been able to find.

Trialling True Image 2014 and it falls over at the first hurdle. I'm trying
to back up the disc on a new Lenovo X1 with 8Gb RAM, 250Gb SSD to a new WD
1Tb external HDD via USB3. There is heaps of spare memory.

Operation with partition '2-0' was terminated.
Details:
Not enough memory (0x70002)
Tag = 0x82DB9339B70C3B24

The SSD I'm trying to backup has 4 partitions that include an unnamed
partition, the Hibernation partition. If I do a partition backup instead of
a disc backup this same error comes up if the partition backup includes the
unnamed hibernation partition. It looks to me that it is the hibernation
partition that is causing Acronis backups to fail.

I've tried disabling hibernation , I've tried excluding Hiberfil.sys from the
backup and I've tried sector by sector backups but Acronis still fails.

What I'm hoping to be able to do with the paid up version is have a disc
backup or clone ready and waiting but I'm not able to do a simple disc
backup as yet.

Hi David,

Thank you very much for your info. I'm so sorry, I was convinced you had identified the problem and had found a solution. But dd you try any or all of these suggestions that have been posted in this thread? I was waiting for some guidance on how to create the bootable media mentioned above (if different from the Rescue Media), if for nothing else, to exhaust all lines of possible solutions, but it you tell us you already tried them and they didn't work, than I see no purpose on walking the same path, because the result will most likely be the same you got.

I must add now that I have just completed two Quick Tests and one Comprehensive Test of my hardware using Lenovo Solution Center and everything came out clean, they all passed. So the idea of running a command prompt fixing seems loose oportunity at this stage. Or perhaps not, this is just my personal opinion.

But I don't want to fall into desperation!... I need to keep alive the hope that some solution will be found, short of trashing my W530... :( I'm hoping and begging for all the help anyone can provide!

Hi all,

To keep this issue in focus, here is a brief timeline summary of my case:

-- David had encountered a problem similar to mine and no errors were ever detected on his system; he has been unable to find any solution for the problem, so far, and neither has Acronis;
-- Acronis recommended I do a command prompt chkdsk /r /f but this may be moot after no issues have been found with the hardware in my machine (as in David's case) ;
-- I made dozens of backups in this machine using Acronis 2012 with no issues;
-- I decided to accept Acronis invitation to upgrade, so I uninstalled 2012 and installed 2015;
-- I made 2 full backups with 2015 and tried a recovery; the recovery failed;
-- Uninstalled 2015 and reinstalled 2012;
-- Tried to make a backup with 2012 and failed;
-- Tried to restore from one previous backup with 2012 and failed;
-- Uninstalled 2012 and installed 2014;
-- Tried to make a backup with 2014 and failed;
-- This has all happened within the last 7 days or so;

So, in my view, it all points to the event of the install/uninstall of Acronis 2015. But I may be wrong, I'm no expert.

One thing seems certain to me at the moment: I'm at a crossroads between Inferno and Hell -- which are one and the same thing -- and I can't even fathom if there is any other, hidden road that may deliver me from the fate of either of those two... Horrible feeling, to say the least.

I know LinYu is uncomfortable with experimentation, but would David be interesting in attempting to remove his hard drive from his laptop and trying to do a disk backup of it connected to another system? I know that isn't a solution, but in the interest of eliminating possible causes for the error I think it a reasonable step.

No I didn't do the bootable media thing. Don't lose sleep on this LinYu or become suicidal. My Lenovo and yours (and may be many others) just can't work with Acronis to do a disc back up. But I (and you no doubt) can do partition backups. Just don't include the 7GB hibernation partition in the partition back ups you do and they should work fine. Then if your disc ever fails you can format and partition a new disc and restore those partitions to the disc and all should be well. I've never had to do it so far but it should be straight forward. It would be much better to be able to have a full disc back up available but it's not possible at present with this hardware and this program.

David

Some added info to this issue with regards to the 7GB partition on these Lenovo laptops.

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T440s-7GB-OEM…

I am in agreement with David that the issue here stems from the hibernation partition. What I would suggest is that a restore/rescue disk be made using the Windows install on the factory disk to an USB stick of sufficient size. A 16GB size should be sufficient. This will allow for the recreation of the factory configuration to the machine if needed or wanted. At that point you could remove the hibernation partition from the source disk as outlined here:

http://jaredheinrichs.com/how-to-delete-oem-partition.html

Once the hibernation partition has been eliminated a successful Disk Mode backup should be achievable. I recognize this solution may not be what you are looking for and is not an optimum choice.

I do not know how Lenovo implements this 7GB partition but I suspect it is done via hard link or mount point. In doing so this must confuse TI 2014/2015 in handling the partition I am thinking because it appears to TI as a contiguous 7GB file. So TI attempts to read this space into system RAM of which the posters have 8GB installed which is not enough to complete the operation so this produces the error. Just my thoughts anyway.

First, let me say that I am deeply grateful for the continued support you have been providing. Thank you all very, very much.

To David and Enchantech, I do believe in all you say, but please allow me one preliminary observation. If you think the problem is between Lenovo hardware and Acronis,
a} how could I have done weekly Acronis backups in this same machine since January 2014? And
b} how can I be doing weekly Acronis backups in 2 other machines for the last 7 and 4 years, respectively, with no known issues?

One other thing needs to be added: one of those 2 other machines uses Acronis 2010 and the other uses Acronis 2013, but neither shows the 7 GB partition when I start a full backup. Does this mean something to David's theory about the source of the problem? It certainly seems to.

So, I'll exclude that partition and will try a new backup.

Now, one question for Enchantech, please: If you know or strongly suspect this issue is only present with TI 2014/2015, what would you say about uninstalling 2014, reinstall 2012 and give it a try? In favor of this approach is the fact I successfully used this version with this machine before; on the other hand, I still suspect that the problem may have originated with my install/uninstall of TI 2015. Or, on a second thought, maybe this idea gets disproved if we remember that, in David's experience, there was no TI 2015 involved, as it all started when he used 2014...

Just one more point: How would I need a separate backup into a USB flash drive if I include the factory recovery partition in my Acronis backup (drive Q: in my case)?

For now, I will try the backup of the three partitions (Sys, C: and Q:) in my system, leaving out the 7GB partition and will report the results.

One down... Yay!... :)

I just finished a successful backup and validation done per previous post: Full backup, partitions System_Drv, Thinkpad (C:) and Lenovo_Recovery (Q:) included, Unnamed 7GB partition excluded. And this is a giant step into the process of mitigating my blues...

The backup and validation both completed flawlessly but there is one detail that I fail to understand. Why is it that all previous backups of this machine, both with TI-2012 and TI-2015, all show a backup file size around the 42/44 GB mark and this one dramatically increases to 56 GB? Totally unexplained to me. If anything, shouldn't it go the other way around?

Of course, there's still the unknown outcome of an eventual Restore, if it ever comes to be required, but for now, thanks to you, let me enjoy the relief from overcoming of this first hurdle.

"David's theory" (as I call it...) seems to stand confirmed: The problem does NOT reside with my system's faulty memory or SSD bad sectors, as suggested by Acronis Customer Service. It's the combination of Lenovo's new system layout (the Unnamed partition) AND the features in the most recent 2 versions of Acronis. This said, I must add that I was able to complete two full backups while having 2015 installed. But I was unable to start a Recovery from these backups. That's what triggered my decision to uninstall it, after all. Now, if my difficulties with recovering from the 2015 backups were coming from the same issue as the TI 2014, I just don't know.

And if David's theory is not proven unfounded, Acronis is not going to look very good in the picture... Not only didn't they implement a patch to get around this issue (which they could have easily replicated), they also ostensibly keep ignoring it to the level of pointing to nonexistent problems in their customers' hardwares and, consequently, to the proposal of false solutions. Don't they have anyone following these forums?

At this point, I kindly ask all friends if they feel it worthy that I go back to what I had previously suggested about reinstalling ATI-2012, just to prove that the 2012 version could handle this same problem with no issues or if, from what I wrote before about my own experience with 2012, we should take it for a fact. I'll be willing and ready to do it, if for nothing else, as a modest proof of my appreciation for all the help I received.

Thanks to all.

Lin Yu, I will attempt to respond in answer to your questions.

a} how could I have done weekly Acronis backups in this same machine since January 2014?

I honestly have no idea however that fact raises some questions of my own such as, Are you certain that these backups produced an image that when restored would result in a bootable disk?  Given all that you have written thus far in this post I believe that you performed a validation on each of these previous backups however,, did you ever attempt to restore one?  It is possible that even though a backup has been successful and validation passed the resulting image may not boot. This is not to say that validation is not to be trusted just that this scenario has occurred in the past.

You indicate in post #28 above that your backup total size has now increased by 12 to 14GB in size, that to me raises suspicion if the previous backups would actually boot or, they might boot but some things might not work as intended.  If you have the means and time you may wish to investigate these suggestions.  I do recognize that you were in fact creating backups and seemingly had no issues prior to upgrading the Acronis application and it is suspicious that once you did things went south in a hurry!  This may be explained by the fact that you previously where using TI2012 and that application might not have been handling the hibernation partition on your problem machine in a correct manner and could have done so in such a way as to not create any error flags.  If this is true then again your backups that you have previously created may not actually work properly when restored.  Having said all that the TI2012 app in all likelihood is and will continue to work as designed and intended on your other machines.

b} how can I be doing weekly Acronis backups in 2 other machines for the last 7 and 4 years, respectively, with no known issues?

I would think these machines do not have this hibernation partition to begin with so therefore there were no issues.  As for going back to TI2012 on this new Lenovo machine, I would recommend against it.  TI2014 is a lot more capable in handling your newer hardware and software installations so I would recommend staying with that product.

Just one more point: How would I need a separate backup into a USB flash drive if I include the factory recovery partition in my Acronis backup (drive Q: in my case)?

I think this link will provide the answer to this question as well as give you a better understanding of Recovery versus Restore.  These are not the same thing even though these two terms are used universally all to often. 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-usb-recovery-drive

I wish to share with you a message I just sent to Acronis in response to their request for "closure" of the case they opened for my query of 9/22/2014 about the issue David Dickson brought here on 4/17/2014. They asked me to answer the request with a RESOLVED response in case I was completely satisfied. I could NOT tell them I was satisfied and decided to point to this thread as proof that they knew about this issue at least since last April, of not before and also to alert them for the proven fact that the fault does NOT reside with their customers hardware, as suggested by their repeated recommendations, but rather with the inability of ATI to deal with the novel "Hibernation Partitions" some computer manufacturers started using.

Here is the text of my reply to Acronis on 9/26/2014:

No, I'm sorry, I cannot say I am satisfied.

The problem I described during the chat with your representative Madhu on 9/22/2014 is an issue that has been submitted to Acronis by other users before, and Acronis never found a solution for it. It is well documented in this thread of Acronis Forums, at least since April 2014, and probably even before. Please take the time to read the full thread, it is not too long, and it identifies exactly the source of the issue and the unsatisfactory, unsustainable way some people (myself included) are trying to circumvent the problem, for lack of a due diligence initiative from the part of Acronis.

But if you must cut corners, read at least from message #8 downward thru the end. Everything is clearly explained and the solution lays squarely in the hands of the Acronis programmers. I surely hope you will choose to do something about it:

https://forum.acronis.com/forum/56630#comment-207374

I am a long term customer of Acronis' and I will be willing and ready to provide any further details you may deem useful and necessary in order to resolve this issue once and for all. In fact, Acronis 2015 seems to have come out with the same issue and this may have been the reason that triggered my above mentioned chat of September 22. There is NO problem, whatsoever, with the user's systems, as proven with many repeated checks of the hardaware. The problem is in the sheer inability of Acronis TI software to deal with what is called an "Hibernate Partition" that several computer brands started putting out in recent times.

Now, Acronis needs to do their own home work, the sooner the better for all parties involved.

With all due respect and my best regards, as your loyal customer.

Thanks.

I remain a little skeptical, perhaps unfairly, that my well intentioned alert may trigger any positive reaction from Acronis management or even if my message ever gets to them. But at least I did my part, out of respect and homage to the people who contributed with their experience and knowledge or tried, the best they could, to be helpful.

To all those, my sincere thanks.

Cheers.

Hi everybody,

I received an email from Acronis' Madhu saying they read this thread and wish to investigate this issue further. He asks me for some additional information that I'm afraid I either cannot provide, at all, or may not be sufficiently knowledgeable to provide, as much I wished to help.

First off, he asks for a system report, but I suspect they are thinking of Acronis 2015, and I do not have this version of the software installed in my system anymore. As I have repeatedly said, I uninstalled it after being unable to perform a recover from one of the 2 backups I managed to do with it. And then I installed 2014, which is the one I'm currently using.

At times I wonder if I should go back to 2015, knowing now what the problem seems to be and the "go-around" alternative to circumvent the issue with the hibernate partition. But reading about all the issues with that version, I refrain myself, for the time being. So I would be unable to provide a system report with 2015. Besides this, the instructions they provide for uploading the report are very confusing to me, and I had to decline entering into a cooperation I wish I could provide but that I know I'm unprepared to deliver.

The most I can do is if anyone is prepared and feels available to help Acronis getting more information and possibly a patch for this problem, please either contact them directly or state your intention here in this thread or send me a PM and I will gladly convey your availability to them when I respond to Madhu's request.

Best regards!

Hi David and Enchantech,

One question that comes to my mind is if it would be possible or safe, at all, to downsize the hibernate partition a bit, from the current 7 GB to, say, 5 GB? This, if possible and safe, could be a go-around for the problem if what Enchantech said is what really happens -- that when Acronis comes to this unamed partition it may take it as 7GB sized file and finds not enough memory in the system to deal with it. Does this make any sense to you?

In the same token, one other alternative might be adding more memory to the system, say 4 GB more... Provided this could be done without invalidating the warranty, of course... Would this be likely to overcome the issue?

Whatever the case, could you please comment?

Many thanks.

When I disabled hibernation completely the hibernation partition stayed on the disc and caused disc backups or partition backups that included that partition to fail. I have no doubt I could do a disc backup if I removed the hibernation partition but I chose not to do that as my system is in good order. I don't think it's my job to troubleshoot for Acronis. I was hoping the support crew would take over once I gave them all the information but we are still waiting.

The computer is a notebook and 8GB RAM is quite enough so I'm not planning on adding more to see if it would solve this problem.

Sorry to roll my eyes and shake my head LinYu but they always start out asking for a system report. Then they will get you to download a program that lets them collect log files as you run the routine that isn't working. After they have spent quite a lot of your time they will say it's a bug and they will flick it all off to the developers. Finally they will ask you again to agree that the problem is resolved and that's the last you will hear from them. That was my experience when I reported the issue so to save you and Madhu some time they could look up case 02161764 which was my attempt to get them to deal with this problem by sending everything they asked for.

David

@LinYu,

If you have either made or downloaded the recovery media for 2015, boot from that and there will be an option to make a system report.

In fact, you could probably make the system report with 2014. I'm just trying to recall whether the system report will show which build of SNAPAPI and SNAPMAN is installed.

You could always make the system report in Windows (it includes the Microsoft MSInfo32 report) with a note that you have 2014 installed, so that all the information will be correct apart from the above two files I mentioned.

@David Dickson
If enabled the hybernation file should only exist as a placeholder, there should be no contents, if made from within Windows. I am unsure if it would be included when made from within the Linux recovery environment, though I think the action is hard coded into the program itself apart from sector by sector imaging.

To respond regarding LinYu's thought of installing addition RAM, that is not an option for you. When reading this thread earlier I considered that approach and checked Crucial.com ... The X1 only has 1 RAM slot and 8GB is the maximum size module that can be installed in it, according to their database.
If you could post your specific model/part number perhaps it has a different motherboard /shrug

I also gave some thought to disabling hibernation, but this partition is not something that is created by Windows. Windows creates a FILE which stores the RAM state when hibernating, not a partition. I can only assume that the partition is something created by bloatware from Lenovo. I wonder if it's possible to bring Lenovo into this mess, seeing as it's their build that has created the problem in the 1st place.

Wouldn't it be nice if Acronis had the desire to resolve this that included them reaching out to Lenovo in an effort to replicate the issue ...

Thanks to all for your help and your thoughts and suggestions.

I did receive another email from Madhu asking for cooperation in their attempt at identifying and patching the problem behind the issue we have been discussing. He insists on their need of a system report and promises that they will answer it via this thread. HE also suggests that I reinstall Ti 2015 before generating the report. I do not feel like going back to the same job of uninstall 2014/reinstall 2015/uninstall 2015/reinstall 2014 that I very recently went through. I feel I may have enough of that for a while...

But I may try to follow Colin's suggestion about generating a system report by using the TI2015 Rescue Media that I still keep, if that provides them with something they could work from. If I succeed in both generating the report and uploading it to them, I'll ask them to use this thread to provide their comments and to seek further details via this same thread. This, I believe, will provide them better and faster responses from people with similar experiences and much better knowledgeable than I, at the same time providing a platform for everybody to add their two cents worth of information... I hope this is agreeable to all of you, and in particular to David, as the creator of this thread.

@Daniel Snooks:

My system is a W530 2436-CTO and I think its RAM is expandable up to 32 GB. My main concern is if opening the box for adding additional RAM could invalidate the standing warranty.

Best regards.

"My system is a W530 2436-CTO and I think its RAM is expandable up to 32 GB."
That is correct, I was looking at the X1 when I posted.

"My main concern is if opening the box for adding additional RAM could invalidate the standing warranty."
Installing additional RAM will not invalidate the standing warranty (provided there is not a warranty sticker covering the access panel for the RAM modules)
If your system currently has a single 8GB RAM module, the simplest upgrade would be to install a 2nd matching 8GB RAM module in the appropriate slot. There are 4 slots and they are designed to run in pairs. If you currently have a pair of 4GB RAM modules, the simplest upgrade would be to install a 2nd matching pair of 4GB RAM modules in the empty slots.

My gut feeling at this point is that the 8GB partition is some manner of file system that Acronis does not know how to work with. Looking at the screenshot that David posted in reply #2 shows that Windows has no name for the file system of that partition.
Imagine if somehow that partition was in fact a single 7GB "allocation unit" for lack of a better term. What would that do to Acronis? I wonder if the error message is actually a false identification of the problem based on the fact the program has no idea what has actually gone wrong.

That being said, I am very curious if increasing the available RAM would be sufficient to alleviate the issue (of course, it's madness for a laptop to require more than 8GB of RAM in order to survive a backup procedure).

After that last reply, I started digging around for more information about the Hibernation partition. I believe this blog to be of value

http://thinkpadmint.blogspot.ca/2014/02/preparing-way-for-linux-dual-bo…

In it, the person used Clonezilla to successfully create an image of his system. That being said, there is no evidence that he attempted to recover the image and prove that it is indeed functional, but the program didn't choke on the partition ...

And the wheels keep turning!!

It just occurred to me that increasing the installed RAM, should in fact result in a equally larger Hibernation partition, given the purpose of said partition. So much for that plan ...

Hi Colin,
I followed your suggestion and created a System Report. I already sent it to Acronis and explained that I'm not ready to going back yet to the uninstall/install saga, so I produced the report using the TI2015 Rescue Media I had created but still having TI2014 installed. I'm now waiting for their comments. They had mentioned that they would post them here in this thread, so I'm sure they'll keep the promise...

Thanks for your help.

Hi Daniel,

OK... So I understand my hopes with an increase of RAM or a downsizing of the Hibernate partition went all down the drain... :)

But like I mentioned above, I sent a system report to Acronis, so let's see what they come up with... David did not seem to be very optimistic about the final outcome, but hey... Hope is the last thing to go, isn't it?... :))

Thanks for your help.

LinYu,

I hope your experience with the support team is a good bit better than was David's, time will tell! I read the link and associated links that
Daniel provided, interesting read for me as it did clear up for me what this hibernation partition is, what function it has, and why it is there.

As it stands at this point my observations are that:

1. Removing the hibernation partition will defeat the function and disable the use of Intel Rapid Start on the system.

2. It appears to me that the conflict we see here between Acronis TI and this Hibernation partition would be best addressed by Acronis and Intel as Lenovo part in this is probably minimal at best.

If you wish to use the Intel Rapid Start feature then it is apparent that the hibernation partition must be present. I found a guide to implementing the Intel Rapid Start Technology at the link below:

http://download.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/rapid_start_t…

So in your scenario if you must use your Acronis created backup to restore your system and you wished to also enable and use the Rapid Start Technology you could do so by following the steps outlined in the pdf above.

I find it interesting that Lenovo chose to only allocate 7GB disk space for the partition when it is clearly documented that the space need be equal to installed system RAM! If you were to increase the amount of RAM in your system then this partition would need be increased in size proportionately for the Rapid Start feature to function properly. I believe that fact dispels the idea of increasing system Ram size to allow Acronis TI to complete a successful backup.

Having said all that I do wonder at this point if simply increasing the size of the hibernation partition to equal system installed RAM size would allow Acronis TI to create a successful backup and not produce the not enough memory error? I think if support is keeping up with this thread that is something they need to try. I think it would have a better than good chance of working.

Very interesting post, Enchantech. Thank your very much.

If I understood correctly, the now famous 7GB partition in recent Lenovo models has everything to do with the Sleep function of Windows. Now I understand why it is being referred to as the "hibernate partition"...

I did go check the settings on the Bios and, indeed, there it is the Intel Rapid Start Technology enabled... I didn't disable it but I guess I probably could, am I right? In which case, all I would lose is the "lower power state" capability brought in by the Rapid Start feature, right? In which case... I could probably get rid of the hibernate partition if I choose to. Please correct me if any or all of my assumptions are wrong.

This leads me to ask one other question that I think you may have already answered:

"So in your scenario if you must use your Acronis created backup to restore your system and you wished to also enable and use the Rapid Start Technology you could do so by following the steps outlined in the pdf above."

In other words, if I ever need to restore from one of the backups I am currently doing (w/o including the hibernate partition) I could probably live with the restored image (no hibernate partition) OR re-enable Intel Rapid Start in Bios. Only that in the latter case I would have to keep excluding the 7GB partition from the backup until (if and when) Acronis comes up with a patch. Hopefully, rather sooner that later...

I will be looking forward for comments on my stated assumptions but I must say that I now feel much more comfortable with the whole situation than I did a few days ago...

I still did not receive a reply from Acronis regarding the System Report I sent them yesterday and I remain reasonably hopeful that they will keep their promise and come to this thread with their own comments.

LinYu wrote:

If I understood correctly, the now famous 7GB partition in recent Lenovo models has everything to do with the Sleep function of Windows. Now I understand why it is being referred to as the "hibernate partition"...

I did go check the settings on the Bios and, indeed, there it is the Intel Rapid Start Technology enabled... I didn't disable it but I guess I probably could, am I right? In which case, all I would lose is the "lower power state" capability brought in by the Rapid Start feature, right? In which case... I could probably get rid of the hibernate partition if I choose to. Please correct me if any or all of my assumptions are wrong.

Yes you are correct in your above assessment. Your machine would still have access to and be able to use Windows built in low power state functions as your machine bios supports that. What you would loose is the Intel Rapid start feature.

LinYu wrote:

This leads me to ask one other question that I think you may have already answered:

"So in your scenario if you must use your Acronis created backup to restore your system and you wished to also enable and use the Rapid Start Technology you could do so by following the steps outlined in the pdf above."

In other words, if I ever need to restore from one of the backups I am currently doing (w/o including the hibernate partition) I could probably live with the restored image (no hibernate partition) OR re-enable Intel Rapid Start in Bios. Only that in the latter case I would have to keep excluding the 7GB partition from the backup until (if and when) Acronis comes up with a patch. Hopefully, rather sooner that later...

Right again. Restore the Acronis TI backup to your disk then, follow the pdf to recreate the Hibernate partition and enable Intel Rapid Start.

Again, I would be very interested to see if expanding the existing hibernate partition of 7GB to match your install RAM size of 8GB as Intel instructions indicate would enable Acronis TI to make a successful backup. I think it would have a good chance of doing so. I have been dealing with a sickness in family over the past several weeks so not much time for testing but if I get a chance I certainly will.

LinYu,
In your post #8, you listed partition information.
It would be interesting to see how these partitions are pictured via Windows Diskpart
as Windows Disk Management console does not list the Microsoft System Reserved partition whereas DISKPART display does.
This pictues shows how to do that.

From a command Window
type Diskpart
From inside the Diskpart command window
type LIST DISK
type SELECT DISK 0 (assuming that disk 0 is your system disk)
type LIST PARTITION

Using  Windows DispPart to show partiton information.

Use DiskPart to view GPF information on your disk. GPF info not visible on Windows Disk Management. Use DiskPart or a current partitioning utiliy to see partitins not displayed by Windows Disk Management or by Acronis TrueImage.

Hi all,
Thanks to all of you for your continued support in this matter. Meanwhile, Acronis keeps a deafening silence about the System Report I sent them, at their request, on 9/29/2014. I event sent a followup message yesterday to Madhu, but got no reply. Maybe that's the way they operate, I don't know...

@Enchantech,

Basically, what I meant to say was if I keep making full disk backups excluding the 7GB partition, and if I ever need to restore from one of these backups, I'm assuming I don't need be much concerned about the fact that I will not have restored the excluded 7GB partition because, in essence, my system will keep performing about the same way, except for the Intel Rapid Start feature. Will this be the case?

If so, then I would not be concerned at all, because I wouldn't know how to manually reestablish the hibernate partition. Or would it be automatically established by Intel Rapid Start, which I doubt?...

The same about expanding the size of the hibernate partition... I never did anything of the kind, so I would refrain from doing it except if I had a very detailed, step-by-step guide to follow. Going "solo" would most likely spell disaster... :))

@Grover,

I took a snip of my screen after completing the steps you recommended under DISKPART command, but once again :)), I didn't manage to paste it here, so I'll transcribe its contents the best I can:

DISKPART > LIST DISK
DISK ### ....... Status ........ Size ........ Free ......... Dyn ........ Gpt
Disk 0 .............. Online ........ 119 GB .... 0 B ........... -- ........... --
Disk 1 .............. No Media ....... 0 B ....... 0 B ........... -- ........... --
Disk 2 .............. No Media ....... 0 B ....... 0 B ........... -- ........... --

DISKPART> SELECT DISK 0
Disk 0 is now the selected disk.

DISKPART> LIST PARTITION
PARTITION ###....... Type .................... Size ............ Offset
Partition 1 ................ Primary .............. 1500 MB ...... 1024 KB
Partition 2 ................ Primary .................. 97 GB ....... 1501 MB
Partition 3 ................ Primary .................. 13 GB ........... 98 GB
Partition 4 ................ OEM ................... 7168 MB ......... 112 GB

DISKPART>

This all means about the same as greek to me... :)) I'm sure you'll find the patience to explain what this tells you...

LinYu wrote:

@Enchantech,

Basically, what I meant to say was if I keep making full disk backups excluding the 7GB partition, and if I ever need to restore from one of these backups, I'm assuming I don't need be much concerned about the fact that I will not have restored the excluded 7GB partition because, in essence, my system will keep performing about the same way, except for the Intel Rapid Start feature. Will this be the case?

Yes, understand though that in the scenario above the hibernate partition space of what you say is 7GB would remain unallocated space on the restored disk as well as any additional space there may be. Let me cite an example, you have a drive failure and need to replace the disk. You opt to replace the current 250GB disk with a 500GB disk. Your backup will consist of only the partitions that you backed up so any remaining space on the disk would then be unallocated space. You would have the option and ability to and expand the primary partition of the disk to fill the drive but you need to understand how to do that. You also need to understand that GPT and dynamic disks are handled differently than what is known as an MBR disk. Your Diskpart description indicates that you have 4 partitions on your Disk 0 which would make it a dynamic disk.
[quote=LinYu]

If so, then I would not be concerned at all, because I wouldn't know how to manually reestablish the hibernate partition. Or would it be automatically established by Intel Rapid Start, which I doubt?...

No, the hibernate partition would not reestablish itself. That would have to be done manually as outlined in the pdf I attached earlier in the post.

LinYu wrote:

The same about expanding the size of the hibernate partition... I never did anything of the kind, so I would refrain from doing it except if I had a very detailed, step-by-step guide to follow. Going "solo" would most likely spell disaster... :))

I understand your situation and concern. The problem with detailed step by step guides are that less experienced users may not fully understand these instructions and end up with an unbootable machine so anything of that nature would be a use at your own risk basis.

I am a bit puzzled by your Diskpart description, I think you made some mistakes in taking down the information that it displayed. Calculating the total of all partition size information I get a total 307GB which exceeds your quoted disk size of 250GB. So something is off there and I can only assume it being an error on your part.